Pytek

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quartata

02:37

Oh I forgot we had this: \f(2, _, 4)

Maltysen

@quartata nice!

_ isn't valid identifier?

quartata

It's in the design but we haven't fully fleshd it out. It'll do more things

@Maltysen Yes but it's special. It is in Python too

and Erlang

Maltysen

@quartata i know

but what happens if I do _=5 before that

quartata

Error it isn't a variable

Maltysen

El'endia Starman

02:40

_ is meant to evoke the idea of "fill in the blank". It's filled in by loops and functions, generally.

quartata

At least not an lvalue. We called it a blank in the original design

Maltysen

cuz in python that would work

but that's cool

kinda like prolog

quartata

Was this even how it worked with functions? I thought it was... :P

anyways \f(2, _, 4)(3)

El'endia Starman

@quartata Yeah, that would work. \f(2, _, 4) is effectively equivalent to lambda x: f(2, x, 4) in Python.

quartata

Yeah, exactly. I think that's good because one link chains aren't really a clean way of doing that

Maltysen

02:44

@El'endiaStarman so it does partial applications without the chain stuff from before?

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen ...what are partial applications, again? I know I've had that explained to me, but I don't remember anymore.

quartata

Currying

Maltysen

> lambda x: f(2, x, 4) in Python.

El'endia Starman

@quartata And I barely know what that is too. :P

Maltysen

@El'endiaStarman currying is when you have 1 function with n args and you make it n functions with 1 arg each

quartata

02:46

To answer the question yes.

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen I think that's actually the best explanation I've heard of for it.

Maltysen

partial application is kind of like automatic currying

quartata

Chains are for things like this: f(g(x), h(y)) to x, y~>\g, \h->\f

Maltysen

@quartata what associates with what looks really hard to remember

quartata

It's FIFO

Maltysen

02:49

El'endia Starman

An argument queue is maintained where functions take arguments from the front and their results are pushed on the back.

quartata

The chain is broken up into links. At each link every function polls the queue for its arguments and st the end offers the results back

yeah what elendia said

Variables and literals just return themselves

Maltysen

oh, is ~> different from -> like one is vectorized and the other splats?

quartata

-> creates the chain. ~> calls it

And yes ~> splats the initial args onto the queue

El'endia Starman

← 39 messages moved from The Nineteenth Byte

whoosh

quartata

02:55

boom

Maltysen

quaternions!?

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen Ohhh YES... :D

quartata

Hell yeah

If that doesn't sell you I don't know what will

Maltysen

oh _ isn't allowed at all in identifiers?

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen It is, just not as the initial character.

Maltysen

02:58

spec doesn't mention that

just says alphanumeric

El'endia Starman

Spec is probably out of date. :P

Maltysen

also, <=> as cmp is cool

quartata

Spec is pretty old. It's from at least half a year ago

Maltysen

comparisons chain, right?

El'endia Starman

Yes, of course.

That's implemented already, in fact.

quartata

02:59

@Maltysen <=> I stole from Perl

And comparisons chain like Python

El'endia Starman

I wonder if we should add |=| as an easter egg that goes "Pew pew BOOM!". :P

quartata

We also have interval notation for ranges

Maltysen

I would use pytek except for \function

seems unnecessary and annoying IMHO

El'endia Starman

Ahhh not another one of you \-haters.

quartata

awh come on everyone says that :( we had a good reason

Maltysen

03:01

@quartata which was...?

El'endia Starman

"Distinguishes functions from the rest" was one of the reasons, IIRC.

quartata

It makes it far easier to differentiate functions yeah

especially when passing them

Maltysen

how about you do a lisp2 like thing

where you have \ when passing

but not when calling

quartata

Erlang does that and it drives me nuts, I always forget

Have to do fun add or whatever

El'endia Starman

Ambiguity is another issue. We're using \foo[] for options, much like named arguments in Python, and if there's no \, then foo as a function can't be distinguished from foo as a list (where [] is indexing/slicing like in Python). Except at run-time.

Maltysen

03:05

@El'endiaStarman why [] for named args?

quartata

Looks good and all of the other symbols have similar problems anyways

El'endia Starman

Semantics. It's nice to put options that affect how the function operates in one place and the actual arguments in another.

quartata

Also not just named args \input[UTF_8]()

Also used in for loops: \for[element](list)

@El'endiaStarman Although I though we were not using [] for indexing anymore

El'endia Starman

@quartata Ohhh that's right, we changed that.

quartata

Yeah we use dot now. list.2 or list.(0..3]

Also we're using \() { ... } instead of < ... > for lambdas right

don't remember if we decided

El'endia Starman

03:15

@quartata Correct. That's implemented.

quartata

By the way I think we should try to get the parser in a semi working state then start porting to Cython; I fear if we wait too long it'll be too big

Cython is what i decided would be better than RPython. In essence it lets us have statically typed variables that are super fast

Keeps things more or less the same except you have cdef int x = 0 in place of x = 0

Gotta go. Something to consider is all

El'endia Starman

Sounds good. I'll let you take care of that. :P

Maltysen

@El'endiaStarman what happens if I do x=5 then try to assign x to a function?

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen As in x = \f?

Maltysen

yeah

El'endia Starman

03:26

That should work, I think, but you'd still have to do \x() to call it.

Maltysen

i see

Downgoat

03:44

@El'endiaStarman halp pytek has all cool feature and cheddar has cheese puns ;_;

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat At least you don't have people hating on the \...

Downgoat

I'd say that counts more as a feature than a con

9 hours later…

quartata

12:46

@Downgoat At least you have something that's almost complete

I can't see us releasing Pytek on GH until sometime early next year

quartata

12:58

and that's optimistic

ASCII-only

13:09

@quartata It works? Definitely. Complete? I wouldn't say so, but I guess it's close to all features for its first release. Performant? Far from it, but I guess it's good enough for now

So in my opinion, we can't really compare progress like this

Plus, I'm pretty sure Pytek wasn't worked on for quite a while

quartata

Cheddar is pretty much almost complete. Most of the other things the stdlib might need shouldn't be in the official release but should be provided by the community as packages. (which is why you should fix your package manager :P)

The only thing it's missing, really, are generators.

The STDLIB will need to be redone to use them which will take a while but that's it

Downgoat

14:12

@quartata haven't even worked out the workings of package manager even :P

I also want to integrate it with cheddar and do it in C++ as practice

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