The Bridge - 2011-03-16 (page 2 of 2)

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8:00 PM

What kind of language does SM use anyway?

@ArdaXi SourcePawn... which acts much like an untyped C variant.

It's the one I was complaining about last week that only has two real variables types: Strings and numbers (and arrays... and handles).

15

A: Trouble getting to sleep after gaming session

Stop playing an hour or two before you go to bed to give yourself time to calm down. First person shooters are more "involving" than other types of game as you are directly "in" the game rather than controlling an object/person on the screen. This will tend to get you more excited and therefore ...

You can tell I'm a dad can't you?

8:15 PM

Aw man, why can't this be real?

@Brant You think people would take a My Little Pony comic seriously?

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Powerlord Given the current reaction to the My Little Pony cartoon around the internet... sadly, yes.

My time machine refuses to move forward a month. :/

@ChrisF So long as you don't enforce it.

@ArdaXi Only with my kids

8:24 PM

@ChrisF That's what I meant, really.

A couple of years ago the kids bought me Lego Star Wars for Christmas. I played it late one night and dreamt in Lego!

@ChrisF Awesome.

0

Q: What does "genking" mean?

While watching a youtube video, I came across a sentence that went something like "as an assassin, you want to be constantly 'genking' for your team mates." (Since it was a video, I'm not 100% about the spelling). I tried googling, but had trouble finding something helpful... Could someone pleas...

@Bob Did they misspell "ganking" ?

Also, apparently sun.com is being decommissioned on June 1st. I wonder who Oracle plans to sell the domain to.

8:39 PM

Dupe.

@Powerlord End of an era. I used to develop on Sun boxes - 20+ years ago now though.

Vote to close everyone.

@ArdaXi done

Even though there hasn't been an announcement, a little birdy told me about: meetup.com/stackoverflow

so I expect all you Dutch users to show up!

13

Q: Trouble getting to sleep after gaming session

If I've played for about an hour or two directly before going to bed I have trouble getting to sleep. Images of the game are still in my head and it takes some time before I can find some sleep. However, this doesn't happen with all types of games - adventure and racing games seem ok whereas firs...

To me, this question feels like something that should be closed pretty firmly. If not, it definitely needs some protection.

It's basically a discussion in the form of a question.

8:47 PM

@IvoFlipse Lisse is right next-door.

It's certainly a soft question, but IMO that's okay as long as it's on-topic and interesting enough.

@IvoFlipse Gotta love how both of the ones near me have 0 registered users.

@Powerlord Same here.

Lisse? I thought it was proposed in Barendrecht at the moment @ArdaXi

@Powerlord The one in the UK is at a place called "Astwood". I suspect it's not a real meet (though it is a real place).

8:49 PM

aw.

user image

Co-op. :(

There's two of them.

Why not Amsterdam or somesuch?

They're both at the same time >.<

user image

@ArdaXi Bacon.

8:52 PM

@ArdaXi I commented to make it more central than Barendrecht, though the train does come there

Utrecht would be most central tbh

clicks invalid

@IvoFlipse Well, yeah, but I can't make Utrecht. Not at 7 anyway.

@Powerlord clicks invalid, then edit

Lisse would be quite easy, though.

how's that @ArdaXi?

Lisse is in the middle of nowhere and even further away

8:54 PM

@IvoFlipse I don't live in the middle of nowhere.

Lisse is in the middle of a bunch of acres with flowers on them, that's not really central :P

It's the Randstad

Barendrecht is two hours from here. By PT that is.

I'm off from school at 5 PM, so I couldn't even be remotely on time.

Lisse is 2 hours for me :P

You must live in the middle of nowhere.

I'd be fine with, say, Hoofddorp too.

user30

@ChrisF I don't think there's a meetup scheduled in the UK at all, I think that's where it's guessed you are near.

user30

9:03 PM

And suggested it as a place you can start a meetup

@ThomasMcDonald Ah - I've not really done much other than look at the site as a) unless it's really close to home I'm not going to be able to go and b) I don't have the time to organise one myself

user30

I'll just pop down the road.

@ThomasMcDonald True

user30

Hey @badp, what was it Jeff said about the election banner being noise?

@ThomasMcDonald That a banner shouldn't stay up for more than 2 days

and that we shouldn't train you to ignore it

user30

9:08 PM

Oh okay, just a question popped up on meta.wpa asking why it went down, I knew it should have gone away but couldn't remember the reason.

Yeah, banners expire automatically; mods can set for how long the banner should remain "live", but the maximum is 2 days.

So, I preordered Portal 2 on Steam the other day. I decided to go with the $15 cheaper version rather than get the PS3 + Steam PC version, and just hope that I can still play co-op with PS3 users.

@Powerlord You can't.

user30

@badp So how come it says up on meta?

You can't? I thought that was the whole point?

9:10 PM

Not between Windows and PS3

@ThomasMcDonald I don't think there's a time limit on the meta sites

@ThomasMcDonald They might've renewed it on meta only

Or was the point supposed to be "Buy for PS3, we'll throw in a PC key too"

@ArdaXi Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're wrong. That was part of the point of integrating Steam into the PS3 version.

@Powerlord When I bought Portal 2 on Steam I didn't have this option, just normal preorder or 2 pack.

(just saying)

9:11 PM

@Powerlord Steam is integrated into the PS3 version?

@badp That's because you have to buy the PS3 disc version for that.

@ArdaXi Yes, haven't you been keeping up in Portal 2 news?

@Powerlord Oh, then big humpin' meh.

@Powerlord I have, but not on console news.

I'll just make sure I continue not investing money in game consoles.

I'm fairly sure it's PS3 with PS3, Xbox with Xbox and PC with PC though.

user30

9:14 PM

I only saw Steam on PS3 when I read what they had to say about Steam Guard

Also, they haven't talked about bringing the Steam community to the PS3. Just the Steamworks package they've also brought to the 360.

gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-portal-2/101576 <-- Anyway, here's the original announcement (that I can't view at work... I can't seem to find it on Youtube)

@Powerlord Yeah, that announces Steamworks, not Steam.

wtf?

smacks Firefox

COPY mean COPY THE URL TO THE CLIPBOARD

4

Q: System Message limit of 48 hours bypassed for per-site-meta election announcement?

It's been 48 hours since elections started, which means that the banner goes away. However, I noticed that on Gaming Meta, the banner is still up. Checking the data says it isn't going to expire until February 15th, which is almost two weeks from now. I can't check the dates on other sites, but ...

support per-site-meta system-message

9:17 PM

but anyway, the PS3 version of Portal gives you the option of linking your Steam account and PSN account.

user30

@GraceNote Cheers

Why would they offer it for the PS3 and not the 360 though?

@ArdaXi Likely reason? Microsoft refused to let them do it on the 360.

Why would they? Microsoft Xbox, Microsoft Windows

Because IIRC there was a wrench when Valve needed the ability to do updates (or whatever) without the vendor's approval

They got it from Sony, but not from Microsoft

9:20 PM

@ArdaXi Sadly, different divisions under different management.

you better Google for more info however

Oh right. Which is also why TF2 for 360 has had maybe 3 updates.

Basically IIRC Microsoft just doesn't want Steam on the XBox.

@badp That's Steamworks again, not Steam.

Versus the PC version's 150ish.

user30

9:20 PM

Valve isn't a fan of the Xbox because MSFT wanted them to charge for each update to TF2.

user30

or something like that.

The Xbox is a much more strictly controlled platform than the PC or even the PS3 is.

user image

I lolled

Whenever your question is something like "Why didn't they X on the 360 version?" the answer is usually "Because Microsoft wouldn't let them"

But doesn't PSN have some kind of friend system of their own?

9:22 PM

@Brant I'd almost go as far as saying the Xbox is more tightly controlled than the iOS App Store.

Yeah, but it's completely optional whether games want to do anything with it or not.

@Brant And you think Valve wouldn't?

user30

@ArdaXi Yeah, it does. But so does Steam.

On the 360, you must support Xbox Live and all the features it entails

No achievements? Sorry, your game doesn't ship.

@Brant Which is what the Steamworks support Valve promised for the PS3 does.

9:23 PM

You don't mute your game's music when the user is listening to a CD they ripped to the drive? Sorry, you don't ship.

There are all kinds of things like that.

@Powerlord Dunno, I checked and the Indie section of XBox doesn't disallow FOSS games.

Apparently.

@Brant lol, that must make sense especially with, say, Guitar Hero.

Rock on the notes of Rick Astley!

You could make a track that says Red Green Red Yellow!

Well, I imagine rhythm games are kind of an exception for obvious reasons, but you get the idea.

The dashboard is sacred, and trying to gum that up with some kind of xbox live friends/steam friends integration is not something that MS would ever go for

oh, also they're competitors in the digital distribution market, that kinda kills the idea too.

Like Sony is much better. They think they own the copyright on a randomly created a private key.

@Brant Oh lord, that 'Games for Windows' client is... uuuh... I'll just refrain from finishing the sentence.

9:28 PM

Wise idea.

I once tried to get a demo of a game with it. I then learned, the hard way, the client didn't support resuming a download after closing and reopening its client.

It took how many years to have an IE browser that supports pausing a download? Oh wait, IE9 hasn't been released yet.

@badp Yes it has been.

(has it?)

Yes.

Okay, upgrading then.

9:30 PM

IE9 was released Monday, iirc.

@badp Wh- why?

@ArdaXi To get rid of IE8, obviously

I have neither, on my Windows 7 install.

@ArdaXi I assume to upgrade the embedded browser control (mshtml.dll)

@Powerlord Don't use that either.

9:31 PM

Here's a list of some of the stuff every 360 game has to do to get certified: (As of 2009, anyway) blog.csdn.net/baozi3026/archive/2009/06/16/4272761.aspx

3

Most of it is obvious, but you get the idea

What if I need it for anything ever?

@ArdaXi Since other programs rely on said control, it's likely still on your system somewhere.

@badp Then you're doing it wrong.

@Powerlord It isn't.

@ArdaXi me? or who requires me to use the IE-only thing?

Up until 8-9 months ago, Steam required mshtml.dll, although it integrates its own browser now.

9:32 PM

@badp Them for using it, you for using software that requires it.

@Powerlord I know. I've nagged them to use Webkit for a year.

Why does the IE9 installer need Chrome closed?

> We're working on replacing IE in Steam - it's taking us a long time because it keeps getting put on the back burner. We're looking at Webkit right now. We're frustrated with the IE control, too -- rest assured it will get replaced at some point. Hope you can put up with the inconvenience 'til then.

This was late 2008

...Why does the IE9 installer need Steam closed?

@badp Nooooo clue. It may be that it updates some of the Visual C++ runtimes.

user30

> On a functional console, the game must not enter an extended unresponsive state, cause unintentional loss of player data, crash, or cause an unintended reboot of the machine.

9:35 PM

@badp There was a question on SU earlier along those lines - just searching for it

1

Q: Why does Internet Explorer 9 need to close (these) other programs during install and are any changes made to Firefox?

When I tried to install Internet Explorer 9 on my development machine I got a dialog box stating that I need to close some programs during install. It also says that these programs use files that needs to be updated. Here is the list: Firefox Java(TM) Update Scheduler Microsoft Visual Studio 2...

installation internet-explorer-9

user30

Some of these requirements are genius.

The amusing part of the Visual C++ libraries thing is that I swear MS tells you to include said libraries with your application now rather than relying on the system version.

Which makes me wonder why they continue to publish system-wide versions.

This also defeats the entire point of shared libraries.

Steam does it even worse.

It reinstalls the Visual C++ libraries every time you install a game that needs them. Every time.

@ArdaXi I've noticed that. Many third-party games on Steam also reinstall DirectX every time.

Or at least run the DirectX updater.

@Powerlord What's more amusing is what happens if you aren't careful with i18n

You just can't use any version of the libraries, but the correct version-specific one

9:39 PM

0

Q: How does Carcassonne (iPad) calculate its ELO?

In playing Carcassonne for the iPad I've been very curious how the ELO for a player is calculated, and by what means it is adjusted at the end of a game. I have played games where I have tied with the AI at the end of the game, but the ELO distribution was different. How it is calculated?

ipad carcassonne elo calculation

Try and use the English one on everybody and suddenly no Italian can play the game as "l'applicazione non è configurata correttamente"

Wow, I should have left for home 10 minutes ago.

Then again, I was running around 10 minutes late this morning...

Hmm, I can't find a newer version of that requirements list anywhere. I wonder if anyone on gamedev knows...

@Brant Hmm... wouldn't it be on the XNA site somewhere?

Anyway, home

> Windows Activation Technologies detected that Windows running on your PC is not genuine and has attempted to make repairs.

How exactly do you repair such a thing?

LessPop_MoreFizz

9:47 PM

@ArdaXi Repair, disable, you're talking to Microsoft here, they're synonyms.

Yeah, windows activation has a lot of weird doublespeak.

"Genuine" is a particularly annoying one for me.

The version I get from teh bittorrents is just as goddamn genuine as the version that came with my PC, dammit. It's just not licensed.

It's not a fake, knockoff version of Windows. It is Windows.

grumbles, then follows Powerlord home, but not to murder him

Valve does the same thing with pre-order stuff in TF2 though.

If you pre-ordered the game, it's Genuine, otherwise it's Vintage at best.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Brant Creepy. Unless you're plotting to murder him, in which case, carry on.

@LessPop_MoreFizz Murdering is less creepy than just stalking?

Interesting morals there.

@LessPop_MoreFizz I thought of that just as I left, then turned around to come back to my desk and edit that line.

LessPop_MoreFizz

9:53 PM

@ArdaXi Yes.

Have you tried not using any at all?

LessPop_MoreFizz

@ArdaXi I didn't say less wrong. Just less creepy.

@ArdaXi What, not using any morals?

@LessPop_MoreFizz Yeah. It works beautifully.

@LessPop_MoreFizz So creepy != wrong

On a second thought, I'm willing to buy that.

LessPop_MoreFizz

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/creepy

Murder doesn't really produce an uneasy sensation. It's more just out and out wrong. Creepy is usually wrong, but wrong isn't always creepy.

Surely some murders are creepy. But murder isn't inherently so, any more than bank robberies, which are also quite wrong, and quite not-creepy.

English is a language of many subtleties.

10:01 PM

You don't find murder repulsive?

I mean, I don't, but I always thought I was alone in that respect.

Just for the hell of it, I'm trying IE9.

It's seriously Chrome, but reskinned.

And less CSS.

0

Q: Looking for games for a 3 and half year old

I'm looking for some pc games that I can get my 3.5 year old son into. He started playing xbox kinect games but I want t otry him on some pc games to get his eye/hand co-ordinance working. The problem I found with most games is there tends to be a lot of writing rather than speech so I have to re...

LessPop_MoreFizz

@ArdaXi there's a difference between repulsive and strangely repulsive.

@LessPop_MoreFizz So I am alone? :(

LessPop_MoreFizz

Murderer who kills people because he wants the contents of their wallets? not creepy. Murderer who kills people because he wants to eat their hearts and sew their skins into a pretty wedding dress? very creepy.

@Bob Resisting urge to add murder tag.

10:10 PM

> there tends to be a lot of writing rather than speech so I have to read it to him to explain what he needs to do.

I could read around that age.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@ArdaXi Yes, but could you read, and comprehend text aimed at an audience roughly quadruple your age? Or could you read whatever the dutch equivalent of 'See Spot Run' is?

@ArdaXi I could read long before that age. But telling him his child should be able to read by 3 isn't very productive.

LessPop_MoreFizz

Because I could definitely handle See Spot Run, and even a few steps beyond that as a 3 year old, and I could sound out most things, but damned if I understood the Newspaper or most video games.

@LessPop_MoreFizz Most of the games that are suitable for a 3 year old have text that should be comprehensible for that age.

LessPop_MoreFizz

By 5 or so? I was just barely understanding Dragon Warrior, even if I was phonetically pronouncing 'herb'.

@ArdaXi Regardless of the unsuitability of the question, I get the sense that he's looking for games not aimed at a 3yo that are nontheless suitable for a 3yo. I may not agree with the aim, but it's pretty clearly there.

10:14 PM

I was already understanding most English games at age 6 or 7. Roughly, anyway.

It doesn't really matter, it's game-rec

@GnomeSlice When does bragging ever not matter?

@ArdaXi Point taken.

LessPop_MoreFizz

Simon Pegg and Nick Frost's Star Wars

10:53 PM

Hmm... I just rewrote a library to do Markov chain text generation for C#. I didn't just shave off 25 lines off the source, but also made it much more fool-proof.

Hmm, typing Twitter into the omnibar crashes Chrome.

Actually, typing anything into the omnibar crashes Chrome.

I wish Bit Trip Beat was a little easier

Not too much

but... a bit easier.

I guess having hilariously high combos rewarded hilariously well on hilariously long tracks is pretty much a design feature of the series

(at least for hilariously modern values of 'hilariously')

user30

I didn't really give it much of a chance

@ThomasMcDonald Try it on Easy. The beats are exactly the same, but the game is much more forgiving (40 instead of 80 beats to get to Multi, e.g.)

also you need like 8 instead of 16 beats to increment the multiplier once in Multi

and you need twice as much misses to drop down to Hyper

so you can score much higher while doing pretty much the same stuff.

If we ignore that the base score is halved. Oh well.

My records are 360 ca beats in a row and ×75 multiplier

user30

I'm not entirely sure I understood the game

@ThomasMcDonald You, uh, move the mouse to hit the blocks and it makes a beep. The beeps sync with the music.

The more you hit the better the music.

user30

11:07 PM

@badp Right. I will need to restart my lappy, starts getting sluggish after a week of uptime

user30

Ooh, maybe not

Yeah, it seemed weird to read that then read 'Tom is playing BIT.TRIP BEAT' a second later.

→ 21 messages moved to SE Game On!

Whoosh.

Bad @Arda, talking while I whoosh.

@badp Bad @badp, whooshing while I talk.

Unrelated.

user30

11:26 PM

@badp Okay, there's an issue with that game

user30

My eyes are seriously struggling to focus on anything right now.

11:51 PM

@ThomasMcDonald I blame the fact it's late.

Or is this window that is bathing you in excessive light?

@badp Actually, it's because he had too much bacon.

@Powerlord How do you know?

@badp So easy mode is just everything divided by two?

@ArdaXi It's the bad stuff halved, the good stuff doubled, and the actual challenge unaltered.

@ArdaXi I can detect these sorts of things. It's magic!

For the price of half base score.

user30

11:54 PM

@Powerlord Nah, it's because I'm tired.

Sigh, Steam. I've unlocked Steam Guard 5 times now. You can avoid showing me the ad as well now

@badp ...unlocked Steam Guard?

Steam Guard asked me to check my email to unlock access to my account 5 times

user30

When you first sign in on a different computer you have to enter a code it sends to your email

user30

If I understand correctly.

11:57 PM

because unsurprisingly Steam Guard doesn't like Wine.

@badp Why do you have it enabled on your account, then?

It gets triggered pretty much every single time.

Also, I thought Steam Guard was only in the Steam Beta client.

@Powerlord and that beta went live

user30

TODAY!!!!!!!

11:58 PM

@Powerlord Because no game manages to install under Ubuntu 11.04 + Wine + PlayOnLinux + Steam anyway

@ThomasMcDonald Oh, that would explain why when I checked for updates last night it wasn't there.

I was under the impression that Steam Guard only worked for the 2500k and 2600k processors anyway.

So any ideas when Portal 2 will start being preloaded?

user30

@Powerlord No, it's not enabled in this release either.

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Transcript for

Mar '1116

The Bridge

General Arqade Chat. We tried to leave once, but the door lock...

--gaming jin-fanclub lazers murder -politics -stars

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