The Bridge

Nick T

20:00

It's still "good subjective" as someone can cite all the reasons they used to arrive at their conclusion

GnomeSlice

Good subjective: The game had a lot of cutscenes with tits in them.

Arda Xi

@NickT Not with any kind of validity to a broad audience.

Nick T

Now, even though @GnomeSlice is taking a step back, asking for just the reasons, you're harping that it would be too subjective.

GnomeSlice

Reason: I watched the cutscenes. They had tits in them.

Arda Xi

@GnomeSlice "A lot" to you might be 1.

"A lot" to someone else might start after the 100th.

Nick T

20:01

@ArdaXi What? If someone gives the evidence they use to support their conclusion, that is perfectly fine so someone else can draw their own.

GnomeSlice

@ArdaXi Well, that's a bad answer then.

"More than half of the cutscenes had tits in them"

Whatever, I'm not going to give figures because I've never played the game

Arda Xi

@GnomeSlice Might be a lot to you, not to someone else.

Nick T

@ArdaXi then someone could simply enumerate how many times they saw whatever.

GnomeSlice

Sheesh.

Arda Xi

@NickT And enumerate what, exactly?

GnomeSlice

20:02

@ArdaXi Correct. Which is why the question isn't 'is the game offensive'

Arda Xi

I mean, sure, blatant sexual content is obvious.

GnomeSlice

How I interpret the given information is entirely subjective, but that doesn't mean the question is.

Nick T

@ArdaXi, your argument is steadily getting worse as you try to pigeonhole Gnomeslice's question as totally subjective when there is an objective core in it

Arda Xi

@GnomeSlice What information is given is subjective.

GnomeSlice

@ArdaXi ...How?

Lazers

20:03

1

Q: I hate hats, so why do I see them everywhere?

I hate hats. Fortunately, I was asked this on the front page of gaming so I didn't have to be bothered with it. However, if I hate hats (not dislike, not mildly annoyed by the presence), then why am I being notified if I get one? I also see them on the Gravatar on a person's profile page: ...

Arda Xi

@NickT If you show me I'm wrong, I'm willing to adapt my views. If you tell me I'm wrong, I stop listening to you.

GnomeSlice

@NickT I appreciate the defense, but I'm going to delete it anyway I think.

Arda Xi

@GnomeSlice What about subtler things, like that woman who gave marks to men.

That can be interpreted as sexist. I wouldn't.

GnomeSlice

@ArdaXi marks?

I'm not asking for whether or not someone thinks it's sexist.

Arda Xi

@GnomeSlice Yeah, to guys she'd slept with IIRC.

@GnomeSlice Well, you are.

If someone thinks it's sexist, they'll put it in their answer.

Nick T

20:04

@ArdaXi you are constantly jumping on every single thing in these candidate answers that could possibly have some sort of ambiguity.

Arda Xi

If someone thinks it isn't, they won't include it.

@NickT What else am I supposed to do if I'm trying to defend its closing?

GnomeSlice

@ArdaXi I've specifically asked for it in the question.

I haven't just asked for 'things that may be sexist'.

I'm asking what the general behaviours, situations, character interactions etc are like.

Nick T

@ArdaXi answers shouldn't have to be overly rigid, they sound awful.

Arda Xi

@GnomeSlice So you're basically asking for a list of every piece of clothing, every bit of dialogue, etc in the game?

Nick T

Language has ambiguity, it's not math.

@ArdaXi that's what you're asking for

Lazers

20:06

0

Q: As a dual wield tank, is it more effective to specialize blacksmithing or enchanting?

as per subject I'm trying to play a proper tank character, but perks are indeed limited. The plan is to go dual wield, thus specializing in Two Handed indeed, Heavy Armor, a bit of Block and then I'm undecided between Blacksmithing and/or Enchanting. Would I be more effective with enchantments o...

skyrim character-build

0

Q: How do you counter Tiny?

There has been two games now, one with Tiny on my team and one on the opposing team where he has taken over the game. In both games, he was the sole person in the middle lane and proceeded to gank and become unstoppable really fast by feasting on opposing squishies. His avalanche + throw combo ...

dota-2

0

Q: Where is the second SAM site in Battlefield 3?

I'm stuck in Battlefield 3 where you start as a co-pilot and need to destroy some sam site at an airplane. I can't locate the second sam site and there is too much cloud and I can't see the ground. Is there a map or so? How can I destroy the second sam site?

battlefield-3

0

Q: Do the Let's Help mini-games unlock anything?

I have unlocked a few different Let's Help! mini-games, and while some of them are fun, I am not sure if there is an actual point to playing them (other than getting high-scores). Do they unlock anything? Does getting a certain score matter? (I know in Crafting Mama, you got medals for getting ...

cooking-mama-4

StrixVaria

@NickT That's why we should all learn lojban.

Arda Xi

@NickT No, that's the only way I can objectively interpret his answer.

I'm open to other interpretations.

Nick T

Which is extremely onerous and impractical, but it is perfectly conceivable that someone could summarize it and offer an argument either way

Arda Xi

@NickT Offering an argument is not subjective?

Nick T

@ArdaXi are you contending that any, any, subjectivity on this site is bad?

Arda Xi

20:08

@NickT No, although that is, within reason, my personal view.

Nick T

You don't, but it is your view...clarify

Arda Xi

@NickT I'm not arguing my own views, I'm arguing the site's policies as I understand them.

Nick T

The site's policy is "Good Subjective, Bad Subjective", which offers lots of leeway for subjective questions so long as they follow some guidelines

Arda Xi

@NickT And I do not agree that this question falls under them.

Nick T

Based on which points

StrixVaria

20:09

I just don't see this question falling under "Good Subjective".

Arda Xi

Well, I think it's a pretty bad policy all around, because it focuses far too much on the answers, not the questions.

Nick T

If the question is phrased to invite good subjective answers, then it's a good question

Arda Xi

@NickT Yes. In what way does this question invite good answers? Answers that are impartial, for example?

Nick T

@ArdaXi wait, what do you mean, the article focuses exclusively on questions

"Guidelines for Great Subjective Questions"

Great subjective questions inspire answers that explain “why” and “how”

Great subjective questions tend to have long, not short, answers.

Arda Xi

@NickT Great Subjective Questions invite answers that, inspire answers which, tend to have answers that.

StrixVaria

20:12

I also agree that judging questions based on their answers is a problem.

Nick T

Sorry, I meant the points focus on questions

StrixVaria

But that's not what we're discussing now.

We're discussing how to interpret the already-standing guidelines.

Nick T

@ArdaXi In any case, the guidelines focus on questions, which of them don't apply to the question in question?

Arda Xi

Personally, I don't really feel like arguing in favour of policies I don't agree with, right now. I think the question should stay closed for the reasons I've provided before.

If you disagree, I suggest you open a meta topic.

Nick T

You're the one that disagrees with the status quo

StrixVaria

20:15

@NickT Enough people thought it was subjective that they closed it.

Nick T

@StrixVaria that would be two people

Arda Xi

@NickT The question is closed. The status quo is that it should be.

William Hilsum

Has anyone bought off of Amazon games before? ... Is it a client or a one off download?

Arda Xi

You happen to be the one disagreeing with it.

StrixVaria

@NickT Which means a mod closed it.

If a mod closes a question before it gets 4 other votes, that's a display that they are extra confident that it is close-worthy.

Nick T

20:17

So we can't argue with mods?

Mods are infallible?

StrixVaria

We can.

GnomeSlice

@ArdaXi Have you never seen the word 'general' before?

StrixVaria

But let's not blame @ArdaXi for everything.

Whoever closed it should step in and explain.

Arda Xi

@NickT No, but their vote carries more weight.

Ronan Forman

Why question are we talking about?

Grace Note

20:18

@WilliamHilsum Pardon?

StrixVaria

-1

Q: What is this game's attitude toward women?

So a game caught my eye recently when I was doing some online shopping. The game is called King's Bounty: Armored Princess. The reason it caught my eye is unimportant, you jerk. What I really want to know about is how that cover reflects on the actual game itself. I'm not familiar with th...

kb-armored-princess ratings

Nick T

@WilliamHilsum Amazon has a download-delivery thing for games?

GnomeSlice

@WilliamHilsum What are you looking for?

2

Q: I hate hats, so why do I see them everywhere?

I hate hats. Fortunately, I was asked this on the front page of gaming so I didn't have to be bothered with it. However, if I hate hats (not dislike, not mildly annoyed by the presence), then why am I being notified if I get one? I also see them on the Gravatar on a person's profile page: ...

bug hatdash hats

HEY I'M IN A QUESTION.

Nick T

I still don't understand Arda's "debate" style, trying to break things down to some elemental level (the English language) and still declaring that they're subjective. It seems absurd

William Hilsum

@GraceNote It seams they are countering Steam Sales... For the sake of a tiny bit extra, I really like steam now and was just wondering if Amazon is just a one off download or if they give a full download - pardon the link, it is long/can't see if they have embedded a tracking/affiliate link - amazon.com/gp/feature.html/…

StrixVaria

20:21

@GnomeSlice A fascist troll question about someone who hates hats.

Grace Note

@WilliamHilsum Huh, I wasn't aware Amazon did digital distribution.

StrixVaria

I unfortunately had to disable hats because the pages took 15 seconds to load with hats.

But I don't hate hats.

I felt bad clicking "I hate hats."

Grace Note

@WilliamHilsum Have you ever operated a Kindle?

Ronan Forman

I agree with @NickT's comment, you can't state whether the game is offensive, but you can say how graphic the game is.

badp

Sequence is €.99, I guess there's really very little to lose now

Grace Note

20:23

Buying games is all about it not being a loss at all.

William Hilsum

@GraceNote not yet! ... Until they have a colour one (not including Fire in that!) I won't

badp

@GraceNote Well, worst case scenario analysis.

Ronan Forman

I think the title makes the question seem subjective, I should edit it.

Grace Note

Does anyone here use a Kindle and can confirm whether books you buy for it are tied to an Amazon account or otherwise?

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote I don't think so.

But I can't say for sure. I know other e-readers don't do that.

StrixVaria

20:25

@GraceNote I think they are but let me ask my kindle-wielding friend.

Nick T

I thought the books were in azw format or whatever, so it was kinda moot

Grace Note

@WilliamHilsum I see. My assumption is basically figuring, "Whatever policies they have for digital books on Kindle, will match the policies that are in place for your access to digital game downloads".

Nick T

@GraceNote bit of a jump imho

Arda Xi

@NickT I quantify concepts in order to make them less abstract. If I make an error in doing so, feel free to point it out, but if I don't, there's no reason to mention it.

William Hilsum

@GraceNote So... Sucky!?

Nick T

20:26

@ArdaXi How less abstract?

Grace Note

@NickT It is a bit of a jump but that's still how I figure it. Seems odd if it were otherwise.

Arda Xi

@NickT As little as possible.

Nick T

possible for whom?

Grace Note

@WilliamHilsum I don't know, I haven't actually gotten anything for my Kindle on account of trading away my literacy level for a candy cane last night.

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote Should I delete my question?

Arda Xi

20:27

@NickT Just as far as is logically warranted.

Nick T

@ArdaXi how far is it warranted in different circumstances? It may differ between people as well

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice If you just want to definitively end the discussion here, you may.

Arda Xi

@NickT Like I said, if you see an individual flaw with it, feel free to point it out.

I've been wrong before, I've no qualms with it.

However, if you just tell me (even indirectly) that I'm wrong without telling me why, I reserve the right to be offended.

Grace Note

Otherwise, I don't see much of a benefit to pre-mature deletion if you do not agree with the closure.

Nick T

You reduce everything to absurd levels (language) when that just distracts from the higher level concepts

Ronan Forman

20:30

I think that title is less subjective now. It's now not asking what it portrays, instead what is shown.

Arda Xi

@NickT If not even the language is clear, you can't debate the higher level concepts.

badp

In case you missed my new tumblr: http://programmerryangosling.tumblr.com

Tweeted by jzy on December 27, 2011 at 8:15 PM

Nick T

This is not math, we don't need formal lemmas for every word, phrase, and concept

Ronan Forman

@NickT You said absurd in that sentence, you're calling Arda absurd!

StrixVaria

@NickT You do when there's disagreement on the meaning.

badp

20:32

you're absurd

Arda Xi

Exactly. Disagreement warrants explanation, no matter how 'absurd'.

If someone disagrees with you over language, then that definition isn't as clear-cut as you thought.

Nick T

Saying that the question should be closed because someone could answer with the cloudy noun "a lot" is ridiculous.

That's not even a fault with the question

Arda Xi

@NickT Someone used that "a lot" to attack a claim of subjectivity.

I wasn't saying the question should be closed because of that, I was merely saying the argument was invalid because "a lot" is subjective.

StrixVaria

The annoying thing about arguments is that the whole thing falls apart if even a tiny bit of it is wrong and you have to start from scratch.

So Arda picks apart the minutiae of the argument.

Does that sound about right?

Nick T

Ok, you don't seem to be arguing either a) using the current GSBS policy or b) against the GSBS policy, just using your own "internal policy" against a specific question which comes across as fairly ad hominem against Gnomeslice

Arda Xi

20:36

@NickT I'm done with you.

I'm not going to stand for all your snarky remarks without any basis.

badp

pokes steam to adjust reception

Nick T

what am I wrong on

Arda Xi

If you can't justify what I perceive as some pretty serious insults, I'm not going to talk to you.

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote I thought my opinion didn't weight as much as the community's.

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice Last I checked, you're a part of the community.

Nick T

20:38

I realize that "beat up on GnomeSlice" is a fairly easy and rewarding sport... :P

Arda Xi

@NickT I'm not using my own internal policy, I'm using the site's policy as I understand it. This might be completely wrong, and I'm open to corrections. A correction is not "you're wrong because I say so."

Ronan Forman

@Gnome Your opinion weights exactly the same as each individual part of the community so it's decided on numbers.

Arda Xi

You're doing that a lot, and it comes across as very immature.

Nick T

@ArdaXi I asked for clarification as to how you were interpreting GSBS to exclude the question, you gave no response

Ronan Forman

@NickT no star fishing in the middle of a debate!

Grace Note

20:39

Could we not say this is beating up on GnomeSlice, please?

Arda Xi

@NickT Because I was trying to end the argument, it was going nowhere.

GnomeSlice

@RonanForman Sure, but since when does most of the community agree with me?

Nick T

@GraceNote Sorry, was that non-PC? ;)

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice Disagreement doesn't render your opinion invalid.

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote It does if it's based on numbers... Isn't that what he just said?

Nick T

20:40

@ArdaXi no, I was trying to direct it back towards the question vs. policy, not a dissection of the question in a vacuum

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice You're making assumptions on actual levels of support.

@NickT No, it's just that the last time what was an argument on subject matters and verbiage was interpretted as an attack on the individual, it got a little spicy and I'd really like to avoid that being asserted again.

Ronan Forman

@Gnome Valid and supported are two separate things.

Arda Xi

@NickT Look, as I said, if you disagree with the closure, post a meta topic.

All I ask is that you cease the petty baseless remarks about me personally, because it's starting to get on my nerves.

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice The point of having a viewpoint is not necessarily that you need to start off with the most support. There's always the method of rallying support through the strength of the viewpoint.

Nick T

@ArdaXi and ask the exact same question?

Arda Xi

20:42

@NickT The idea of a meta topic is to gain consensus on a topic.

Nick T

I could just canvass for one more open-vote

StrixVaria

We would be able to vote on answers to a meta topic.

Nick T

Then what, the onus would be on you?

Arda Xi

I'll cast my close vote, that's all.

Raven Dreamer

@badp yes. Bit.Trip Core is pretty awesome.

badp

20:44

@RavenDreamer What version have you played?

Raven Dreamer

@badp I have Saga.

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote No I wasn't, but that's what it sounds like everyone else thinks.

badp

(I don't doubt it's awesome. I've watched the shit out of it on YT)

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice You currently have 4 reopen votes on your question, in a system where 5 votes is deemed to cause action.

Arda Xi

@GnomeSlice That's what you sound like, frankly.

Raven Dreamer

20:45

And, oddly enough, there's no "options" menu in the game, anywhere. Which is sad, because I'd like to adjust sensitivity / difficulty

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote Oh really, it's gone up?

badp

Oh, difficulty controls have been added to the other games?

GnomeSlice

One of those is from me.

Raven Dreamer

@NickT You pinged me with, "And what if you're not online?"

badp

I know the original Beat didn't have a difficulty slider

Raven Dreamer

20:45

What on Earth were you talking about?

badp

same for Runner IIRC

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice Aye, it's at 4.

Raven Dreamer

@badp Ah, well maybe the PC versions spoiled me.

badp

Actually is the difficulty system in Beat still broken?

I've noticed easy mode was nerfed heavily in the iPad version

Nick T

@RavenDreamer I hope it was one ping only

►

Raven Dreamer

20:47

14 hours ago, by Nick T

@RavenDreamer and if we're not on at the same time?

badp

basically, if you can play decently, you'll score roughly twice as much in Easy than in Normal mode on Windows

William Hilsum

... If anyone has a second (and Excel) Can you check over my spreadsheet, I think there is an easy mistake, but, I have a headache and can't work this out... trying to see if better value is on Steam USD or GBP :/ williamhilsum.com/steam.xls ... Or maybe I am correct and there is only the one that is cheaper this time...

badp

multiplier starts halved (×50) but grows twice as fast (gain one every 8 after 40 instead of one every 16 after 80)

William Hilsum

Plus, you may like this/want it yourself!

Grace Note

@WilliamHilsum "The page cannot be found"

GnomeSlice

20:48

Don't forget the Gamersgate bundle pack.

It has the first three games for $12 something

Nick T

@RavenDreamer the meta post served my purposes well though

Lazers

0

Q: Why is this a duplicate?

Why is this question a dupliate of this? I'm not asking if the attack is weaker, but if the animation is slower. Seems different to me.

support

Raven Dreamer

@NickT Ah. Some context might have helped.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Really? Why did you add those tags back in?

women? Really?

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria women? I don't know, that was just now. I didn't add the other one.

StrixVaria

20:50

The edit shows you just added it in.

ratings

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria No, it was already there...

StrixVaria

Weird.

In any case, ratings sounds like one of those meta-tags we're trying to get rid of. So adding it in is probably going to result in imminent burnination.

But I won't lead the campaign against that one.

It's not especially egregious.

women, though...

GnomeSlice

Yeah, I don't like it, not sure who added it there.

Lazers

1

Q: Where do I find dragons breath?

My friend had a shout called Dragons Breath. It did a lot of fire damage. I was wondering where do I find it?

skyrim

GnomeSlice

Might have been @Ullallulloo.

Ronan Forman

20:51

That may have been me by accident, when I edited the title I may have also accidentally rolled back.

Raven Dreamer

I've already removed both of those tags from this question. Please don't add them back. Particularly woman

GnomeSlice

@RonanForman You also made my title much more subjective.

I'm going to edit it again, now, and I'd like nobody else to mess with it, for now.

Dave McClelland

Can a mod trim the comments off of this answer? All the requests I've gotten have been fulfilled, so now they're just noise. Leave the first comment (from Tobias), though, since it's still relevant.

GnomeSlice

Has anyone here played Worms: Ultimate Mayhem?

Raven Dreamer

@DaveMcClelland done.

Dave McClelland

20:55

@RavenDreamer Thanks!

Nick T

@GnomeSlice my edits fine?

GnomeSlice

Oh my god, awesome indie bundle for $20.

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Nick T

I dunno, I think the question would get a lot less flak if you removed the picture; that probably drives a lot of knee-jerk voting

GnomeSlice

It was showing that title for me already? :S

@NickT Then those people need to grow up.

What's Jamestown: Legend of the Lost Colony?

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice An awesome bullet hell shoot-em-up.

Nick T

20:59

Yeah, but I have the feeling that just seeing that will cause people to argue against it just 'cuz

StrixVaria

It was in the most recent indie bundle.

GnomeSlice

Is it a sequel to Jamestown?

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