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12:00 AM
> You have no more close votes today; come back in 8 seconds.
25 - First Posts
14 - Low Quality Posts
11 - Reopen Votes
14 - Late Answers
36 - Suggested Edits
35 - Close Votes
That's us for today
brb closing everything
Sorry, that's what we handled today
where do you get the handled numbers?
And from ELU:

8 - First Posts
5 - Low Quality Posts
0 - Late Answers
0 - Suggested Edits
147 - Close Votes
1 - Reopen Votes
12:01 AM
They just reset
But under "Recent reviews" along the top
"Reviews today"
Whenever something actually appears in a queue, it's like feeding time at the zoo
that's probably how it should work
To quote Richard, "Gotta be quick round here."
whereas I have a bunch of rules in my head about what close-worthy and delete-worthy questions are not worth spending my votes on because there are almost always more egregious ones later in the queues
12:05 AM
I think it sometimes makes it harder to use the "skip" button
Depends on how much you buy into the gamification aspect
But especially on Reopen, where we sometimes go days without seeing anything
If you are gunning for badges...
I use skip quite a bit, since we do get a lot of borderline and indeterminate ones alongside the blatantly-must-nuke ones
That's probably how it should work
... is this conversation on-topic?
Moderation theory? Kinna?
does anyone have a more on-topic thing they'd like to discuss?
12:09 AM
@Ixrec No, but to judge from Shog's migration of messages the other day, "on-topic" is more strictly enforced in this room than in Mos.
what stance do the current candidates take on the matter of waffles? <-- SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO MAKE SOMETHING ON TOPIC?
well, that was after we explicitly asked him to move stuff
also you are really good at asking about topicality only when Shog is online
@Shog9 I believe there is room in this world for both pancakes and waffles
Well, I know who I'm not voting for.
12:13 AM
What equipment would I need to properly moderate SFF.SE on a boat?
@Ixrec a boat
@Ixrec Is there a Boats.SE?
On the Water

Proposed Q&A site for beginner and experienced boating enthusiasts with questions about Nautical, Maritime, Seafaring, & Boatable Watercraft

Currently in definition.

one of the stranger custom close reasons we've used recently:
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it involves watching a video, reproducing the issue on one's own device, and debugging the resulting crash (if available) for a product that I don't have the source for. — MichaelT 1 hour ago
12:21 AM
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because the OP is a werewolf.
That's about the best we got
that almost sounds like me.
May have been
I also tried to get "unclear what the OP is smoking" going; it didn't take.
We do get some odd ones
From time to time
I've seen some of the more amusing troll questions
12:23 AM
:27122853 Jason is good at ninja'ing people :-)
@Ixrec Yeah, no need to sit in the queue when Obie delivers them right to you
@MikeEdenfield Will you continue those endeavours as a moderator?
One question has been closed as "Unclear what you're smoking" in the last 30 days: scifi.stackexchange.com/tools/question-close-stats
12:36 AM
> I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because this looks like it's just someone's pet theory, without having been restricted to specific franchise. Yes, there may be some fantasy story somewhere where dwarves are born with beards, but there's no general answer to this.
that's not a close reason, it's an answer.
link to question?
Search "dwarves beards"?
no joy
it was VTC this week, at least.
Deleted question maybe?
12:42 AM
Q: Are dwarfs born with beards?

JorenI was wondering whether dwarfs (e.g. the ones from LOTR) are born with a beard. I've just read something about baby hedgehogs getting born with a membrane on their spikes from hurting their mom (source). So I figured the beard of a baby dwarf could be covered with such a membrane just like th...

it specifies LotR from revision 1
yeah, but spells "dwarves" wrong
but i dunno what the close reason is all about.
that might be why the other voters didn't use it
at some point the OP came back and removed the LOTR tag
and ferret changed "i.e." to "e.g."
so the final revision really is too broad
it's sad when a question gets edited to make it less answerable
12:53 AM
but enough about spoiler markup
Booyah! Good one!
spoiler markup in chat
we need to come up with an actual election issue to talk about
Why do any of you want to be elected moderators?
I mean, I know it looks all glamorous from the outside, a non-stop party of nearly hellenistic levels of debauchery... But surely you must realize there's actually a lot of work involved.
1:10 AM
I like helping people
which is roughly the same reason most of us are on StackExchange at all
And I like giving back to the community
@JasonBaker <yawn>
I also like hedonistic debauchery, but that's neither here nor there
I actually enjoy the moderation I've done in the review queue and stuff more than answering, I guess
1:17 AM
@Shog9 its on my bucket list.
@SSumner I can kinda understand that; I spend more of my time on chat and mod activities mostly because I can always do them and they take less brainpower, answering questions I can only really do after a question that I am capable of and interested in answering turns up, which is not very common
Also, I like the color Blue.
Also, this may seem odd, but I actually like thankless janitorial work
@JasonBaker that's how I got this job ;-)
I also enjoy productive grind-y work like that to some degree
1:34 AM
@Loong Good to know I'm in good company =)
1 hour later…
3:01 AM
@Shog9 reminds me of a dept meeting at the school i used to teach at. we were asked what we liked most about teaching. most everyone said, "i like helping". one guy said, "i like seeing the look in their eyes when i tell them that they've just gone over their [missed attendance] hours and they've just failed the class."
3 hours later…
5:52 AM
I admit I went a bit overboard with that close reason. For some reason, I thought it was a new question; I hadn't noticed it already had a good answer.
7 hours later…
12:44 PM
@Shog9 Because moderation is important.
1:00 PM
@phantom42 what happened to that one guy?
1:28 PM
@Ixrec he got a promotion to become the course director for that class. his boss got a promotion, and everyone in the class moved up a spot. this was some 13 years ago. last i heard, he was still there.
2:05 PM
Why do I want to be elected as a mod?
I've already stepped down my answering activity in order to spend more time on moderation, and a diamond would help me to do so more effectively. This site has brought me a lot of enjoyment, and it's nice to put something back into it - I owe it.
@randal'thor how would a diamond make you more effective? it certainly makes your votes/flags more effective, but does that make you more effective?
Surely making votes and flags more effective would make me more effective (in my moderation activity, not as an answerer etc.)?
why do you want/feel the need to be more effective in that regard?
(this question is for all nominees, not just rand)
And the extra responsibility bestowed by the diamond would put more pressure on me to do things I know I should do but never seem to get round to, like participating more on meta and (as promised in my questionnaire response) broadening the site's range by asking about less popular SFF works.
pretty much the question that didnt make the cut: what do you actually want the diamond for that you can't already do?
2:16 PM
@phantom42 Isn't that basically the same as Shog9's question?
largely, yes.
I want to be a moderator so Keen can take a vacation.
why is everyone suddenly on-topic?
@MikeEdenfield Is he not keen enough on the job?
2:32 PM
I'm definitely not going mad. I did see a nomination from Richard, I remember it clearly.
@JohnBell Last year?
he made a comment about nominating himself on the original election post, but he didn't do it this year.
This year I'm sure. Seriously, if I find out this is all in my head, I'm going to retire myself quietly into a corner.
2:55 PM
Richard never nominated himself this year. Sorry.
@Shog9 One of the questions that didn't make the cut for the questionnaire was about what to do about the high rep users that seem to be leaving. From what I've seen, a large part of their reasons for leaving has been dissatisfaction with the current mods. I don't know the full story behind some of these incidents so I'm not taking sides, but I'm hoping these users will be more likely to work with me since I would be a new mod (especially since I've developed somewhat of a rapport with them).
3:10 PM
I'm not sure if it's so much the specific moderators rather than the act of moderating the site they're dissatisfied with... ;-)
@NapoleonWilson I think the current mod team is doing a good job overall -- I don't really have any complaints. Nonetheless, there seems to be a perception (whether backed by reality or not) that the mods take sides, don't listen, etc. I'm hoping some fresh blood will help ease the problem of that perception, and I think I'm one of the nominees who might be able to do that.
Of course, I'm well aware that if I need to act against these users I might lose my rapport with them and become a "bad guy", too, but maybe I can keep them around long enough for the next mod election so we get some new "good cops".
Apart from the fact that I dispute the idea of a "high-rep user migration" in the first place, I think those few high-rep users who did leave over the past year did for various reasons.
One or two of them did have rather public disputes with mods, but I tend to agree with Napolean -- they were angry that the mods did their job, which presumably, you or I would also have to do in their shoes.
3:34 PM
hrm. I assume that deleted users don't show up in SEDE queries for users?
@MikeEdenfield No, a Post from a deleted user also has a NUL (or whatever DB equivalent) as UserId.
I'm trying to find "all high rep users with no activity in 90 days".
that's not gonna catch someone like e.g. Darth Melkor
no rage-quits
But there's a query to list posts by a specific deleted user, if you know his previous ID, it just looks for the plain text "userXXX" under the post.
@Null this is one of the reasons why the moderator team wanted to hold an election. Not because folks are leaving; people come and go as they please, and trying to stand in their way or placate them never really works. But rather because they've been too burdened to really do as much hand-holding and outreach as they would like. It may be that some people here are feeling adrift and would like to have more of an opportunity to talk to the mod team, socially.
So maybe you could construct some kind of query that first gets all posts by deleted users and then looks for often recurring user IDs under them to get deleted users with many posts. By then looking at them you might be able to deduce the actual username from comments and stuff.
3:38 PM
@NapoleonWilson maybe, though that's not really what I'm looking for.
@NapoleonWilson just beware that some folks might see this as... Rude. IOW, if you're gonna make more work for the mod team by motivating departed people to come back and beg for the deletion of any comment that mentions them, you should wait until there are more mods.
I was trying to quantify the vague perception that "all our high-rep users are leaving"
by seeing how many high-rep users have actually left.
it might be more than I think.
it might be less than others think.
That being said, I myself often have the feeling (on a totally different site, though) of many active and avid users disappearing (for entirely varied reasons, though) and am sometimes worried about that. But I guess that's the natural flow of things (as long as enough good people take their places).
my gut is "not any more than any other site around our size, given that people come and go all the time."
@MikeEdenfield Unless someone is claiming a specific number (and isn't going to make the same argument with number +-50%) that's a waste of time. This strikes me as an emotional argument.
3:41 PM
it probably is.
and, without naming names, some of the "high rep users that are leaving" seem to still be here and be active, so...
I'm pretty sure it's a perception of a problem that's not really there
@Shog9 I'm not entirely sure what this message was in response to, I admit.
Active authors with > (nominal amount of rep) over time would be a reasonable test for the health of the site.
@NapoleonWilson he's saying not to encourage me to figure out who userXXXX is by comments replying to them.
@NapoleonWilson don't try to associate usernames with deleted users en masse
@MikeEdenfield Oh, it didn't even cross my mind to do strange things with that info. I was just throwing weird SEDE ideas around.
@Shog9 Ok.
3:44 PM
though I could possibly use that concept to get an idea of "# active users who's last post before deletion was in 2015".
that's sort-of what I was looking for.
too much work.
it's easy to forget that Wad and Jason are relatively new
# of 20k+ users with no activity in the past year. SF&F: 2. M&TV: 1. SO: 95.
also, congratulations to Wad for being the only user with a net loss of rep so far this year (yay bounties)
@MikeEdenfield Numbers are probably useless, you'd need %s for inter-site comparisons.
@MikeEdenfield Only 2? Which?
There are plenty who've had almost no activity in the past year.
Jeff, Tango, DavRob60, dlanod, Izkata, Kyle Jones spring to mind
what do you consider activity? just posts?
posts and comments?
@MikeEdenfield here's the start of something interesting: data.stackexchange.com/scifi/query/428531/… (accounts for deleted users as well)
3:52 PM
Votes are activity, too. People have to vote for the site work!
that would probably be a better metric, since someone might just log in by clicking an HNQ link and then leave.
if we want to meaningfully quantify a loss of high-rep user contributions to the site...I'd go with post count
that's the main thing they contribute that other users contribute less of
It's true that more outreach from the mods would probably make the more casual users here appreciate them better. ASR has been hanging out in Mos lately, and seems widely liked; the same could also be said of Thaddeus. The K-team aren't as visible, and most people (including myself) haven't interacted with them enough to get a feel for them. It'd be nice to get another visible and popular mod.
Keen's in AoN all the time.
@MikeEdenfield And for people who aren't interested in comic-related stuff? :-)
3:56 PM
they get to talk to swordferret, obviously.
of course, I'm in both, so. just saying.
@Shog9 what triggers it to do a graph?
or i guess I could just read the help.
I've talked about stepping down my answering activity, but I'd still like to be active and visible - chatting in Mos, plenty of commenting and editing, and so on - if I'm elected.
also, off-topic but sortof related: every time I get annoyed at having to write absurd SQL queries for work, I overhear the guy in the next cube over in a 45-minute coversation about how many pixels to the left to move a report label and I feel better.
@MikeEdenfield (I'm not Shog9, but) There are "Results", "Messages", and "Graph" tabs on the generated data.
@MikeEdenfield Nothing actually, it just has to have two columns with numerical/datestuff and that graph thing should appear automatically.
it doesn't always make a graph, though. I assume it has to have two numeric columns.
and one that looks like a month will make it use the month names?
4:01 PM
@MikeEdenfield It will just work with any date column (take a look into the tabular results). The labeling depends on the date resolution, I guess.
I played around with some date-related queries and at some point it stopped graphing them
as you surmised, this is covered in the help: data.stackexchange.com/help#graphing
Wow, there's so much not in that help, but that's actually quite informative.
yup, reading now.
Q: As a moderator, what is your position on migrating questions?
Q: Is it Possible to Save BOTH Jean Grey and Nightcrawler in Mephisto's Realm in the game Marvel: Ultimate Alliance?

Joseph MarshBack in October of 2006, Marvel released a video game called Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, which allowed players to play as several different Marvel characters such as Spider-Man, some Avengers characters, Defenders characters, X-Men characters, the Fantastic Four, and several other notable heroes. ...

I think this is something that actually came up last year as a possible issue. (not this question -- migrating things)
@MikeEdenfield Discuss in TL first with the mods of the other site?
4:06 PM
Would you expect that question to get migrated? I don't know that I'd even ask, it's not a bad question but it's not "great".
I'd probably just recommend the OP go re-ask it.
@MikeEdenfield Oh my.
as I understand it, the bar for migrated questions is intentionally way higher than just "on-topic over there"
@MikeEdenfield Yes, it has to be off-topic here, on-topic over there, and good (whatever that means).
A: What is migration and how does it work?

Kyle CroninWhat is migration? Migration allows an off-topic question to be gracefully moved to another site in the Stack Exchange network. It preserves the current revision of the question, all its answers, any comments on any post, as well as most of the votes. Side effects of migration Down votes are ...

So in such a situation, one could ask the mods from M&TV or Arqade or wherever, "hey, do you think this would be a good question for your site?"
4:08 PM
I might even edit it first, before asking.
If yes, then migrate. If no, then suggest to the OP that they re-ask it over there in an improved format (tell them how it could be improved to fit in better over there).
but I also know that having your question moved out from under you can be jarring to some users. IMO it's just as important to explain to the OP why it's off-topic here and on-topic there.
GTG. Later, all.
huh. we only have 4 users with > 1000 answers and one of them is gone.
4:24 PM
game over man, game over. last one out shut off the bot.
Now, another perspective on this is to count the total number of answers coming from each group:
that TFA spike is ridiculous
@Shog9 does it matter for graphing if you select out the first day or last day of the month?
1) Your most answer-having answerers love Star Wars
2) Everyone else loves Star Wars more
3) Everyone else loves everything else more, collectively
@MikeEdenfield no, as long as you're consistent
4:32 PM
SQL 2012 added EOMONTH()
@MikeEdenfield except for the multi-months stretch when he abandoned us wasn't
yeah, well, everyone needs a vacation. especially from mos eisley. bad for your mental health.
bad for your liver too
ok, where is the SEDE chat room?
5:05 PM
I think migration should be a two-part voting process. Outgoing site needs to vote to migrate, to any site, incoming needs to vote to accept. If outgoing votes for migration but incoming won't have it, it's just closed as off topic.
There you go, less work for mods.
@SQB Isn't that kind of what happens already?
Except it gets closed after migration, I guess
Well, first of all they need to make it a two-stage process anyway. Close as off-topic then vote to migrate.
Does the incoming Stack get to vote?
Not until after it gets moved, I think
@SQB If they close the migrated question, the migration is rejected and the question stays (closed) on the original site.
5:08 PM
Ah, I did not know that. But it's migrated first, then voted on as a regular question?
My proposal would entail a new queue, "incoming".
@SQB Has been proposed already at least once.
@phantom42 Everything.
A migration path would mean the incoming site trusts the users of the outgoing site to judge the topicality.
... And eliminates the incoming vote.
@SQB At this point, I'd rather just make migrations harder. They are a constant source of controversy between sites. :-(
to me, the only real upside of migration is that you maintain the edit and comment history .
5:12 PM
How about only letting people vote on migrations who have an account on both outgoing and incoming site and a certain amount of rep on both?
if the question has no revisions, and 100% of the comments are "this should be migrated", then there's no point in migrating.
...Speaking of which, we want to migrate a question to Arquade.
IMO it would be much better in the long term to explain to the OP about the scope of the sites, how to find other SE sites to ask questions on, and let them go ask it themselves.
@Mithrandir why do you think we're taking about migration in the first place? :)
@Mithrandir yah, scroll up :)
5:14 PM
@MikeEdenfield Too much bother.
To much bother for a candidate mod?
for us, or for the OP?
Even if it were being migrated, we should explain all of those things to the OP.
For me to scroll up.
@SQB Yup.
@SQB Has been proposed already at least once.
@MikeEdenfield There is, keeping a great question alive.
My mouse is going crazy >.<
5:18 PM
@NapoleonWilson Does it make a difference from the perspective of the asker, though?
All I'm coming up with is that the OP may get discouraged by the poor reception and just not bother re-posting
A problem, yes, but I don't know how big of one
@JasonBaker If you don't have an account on the target site, migration is pretty unfriendly.
@JonEricson How much more unfriendly than reposting?
@NapoleonWilson Do you think it's not good enough to tell the OP "This is a really good question, but out of scope here. They'd really appreciate this over on mudpies.stackexchange.com" ?
To me reposting is better because the user is directly involved in the process.
I've actually seen at least one user get angry when his question was migrated to another stack site because "I didn't ask it there."
@JasonBaker Maybe, but on SE the asker usually doesn't count that much anyway. ;-)
@MikeEdenfield Not if he won't reask it. And it gets even worse when he does reask it before the other one gets closed (or if it even won't). Suggesting to reask it over there can be the first step to cross-posts, and those are rarely a good idea.
@JasonBaker Depends on whether they create an account that reclaims the question or a brand new account that will need merging. And whether the comments end up devolving into arguments on whether the migration was a good idea.
5:26 PM
@MikeEdenfield Then users have to be enlightened in the ways of SE more.
@JonEricson Fair enough
Why not create an account automatically on migration?
@SQB create accounts for people on sites they haven't necessarily ever visited based on a 3rd-party's actions? WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
It's a bit presumptuous.
Well, if you're going to push their question there, why not?
5:38 PM
@SQB because an account is a lot more than just a name. We already have folks complaining that creating accounts is too easy, that their personal details are associated with sites they don't remember signing up for. This would create a situation where we're doing the same sort of thing folks routinely write us to complain about site-scrapers doing: claiming membership of a site they had no intention of ever joining.
Pushing their question to a site they don't even have an account it, where they possibly have to jump through hoops to get their accounts merged if they don't do it the right way, is a better option?
@SQB the better option is to make signing up as painless as possible while keeping it an explicit step. Which is what we're working toward.
Ah, that's the difference perhaps. I tend to view stackexchange as one big site with different parts.
Yeah... Some folks get really tetchy about that sorta thing.
And to bring this back into some semblance of relevance... We've had folks upset because a moderator they don't like had access to their account details. If you were in a situation like that, being careful to avoid creating an account in the wrong place would be your lifeline.
(BTW, sharing personal information from a user's account or using it for personal business is the biggest taboo here and the primary focus of the mod agreement: if anyone elected ever does this, their moderator access gets pulled immediately without discussion or debate, and we go through the logs with a fine-toothed comb to see what else they did. Just in case anyone running was wondering how much they could get away with here.)
I expected them to be arrested and shot, TBH.
5:53 PM
Why not make it an explicit question for the OP then? First, the site votes for migration, to any site, then the OP gets the question if they want to automatically (create an account at the other Stack and reask the question there).
That's the same net effect as telling the OP to ask it at that stack, except that a) the account is created automatically to make sure that goes right, and b) the OP doesn't have to retype / copy and paste.
@SQB That would have been a good idea when migrations were designed. But at this point, I'm not sure changing things is worthwhile.
A: When should we consider adding a default migration path?

Shog9Almost never. These paths have a place when two conditions exist: There is a clearly-defined topic that is wholly inappropriate on one site and wholly appropriate on another. That topic is asked about daily on the former site. This is pretty rare. Especially if the first site isn't Stack Ove...

1 hour later…
7:11 PM
By the way, can I interest anyone for my Cartoons.SE proposal?
@SQB I'm already following it. Which I'm pretty sure should buy me your vote.
7:41 PM
I think I'd be doing better in the primary if the nice comments people left about me were still visible.
@JackBNimble actually, it didn't. You already had it.
> You had me at "you're dead to me"
holy crap. missed this before.
7:56 PM
Not the first mse post this election has inspired.
I don't remember there being so much election drama in any of the past 3 elections I participated in.
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