The Periodic Table

14:05

@hBy2Py have you done some cas calculations with orca?

hBy2Py

@pH13-YetanotherPhilipp Yes, I have done a variety of them. By no means am I an expert, though.

I may be able to help you with the mechanics of performing them, but interpretation for accuracy and confirmation of validity I cannot ensure.

pH13 - Yet another Philipp

but as you wrote that fancy manual about what all the SCFCONV... stuff means in detail, do you have any idea if it is possible to lower the threshold for the shown determinants?

I have my personal pros for interpretation here in the office *g* but I thought you might know more than me about fancy keywords

hBy2Py

Yes, there is a way to do that. It was mentioned on the forum at some point. Occh, now I have to remember... lemme look.

pH13 - Yet another Philipp

:D

hBy2Py

Gaaaaah, what's the keyword?

Ahh, there it is: @pH13

orcaforum.cec.mpg.de/…

%casscf ci TPrint 0.0 end end

TPrint is the threshold below which CFGs are not printed in the CAS state output. Default is something like 0.0001, I think?

DHMO

14:19

Presenting the beehive:

!!img/coronene

Chemobot

hBy2Py

Mine's bigger:

!!img/buckminsterfullerene

Chemobot

DHMO

@hBy2Py but it isn't made of hexagons

hBy2Py

@DHMO .... yes it is.

in Three-D

DHMO

14:20

@hBy2Py it's made up of hexagons and pentagons

hBy2Py

Oh

good point

Sorry.

Why did I think it was all hexagons?

DHMO

Presenting a larger beehive:

!!img/ovalene

Chemobot

pH13 - Yet another Philipp

14:42

@hBy2Py maybe ... :D ... thank you!

I searched in the forum but my keywords were not good enough ...

orthocresol

@AshishAhujaツ depends on what you mean by trolling.. you can type random text and play around with the functions of the site, the entire point of the post is for you to explore anyway, but obviously posting obscene images (for example) will not be tolerated

@hBy2Py Are you sure I haven't abused my powers yet? Actually... Loong has not abused his powers yet because he is away... so I think we must all watch out when he is back... (mod editing powers ftw)

Anyway, it's just day 1... :P

@M.A.R. Well, we want to discuss the close reasons, no?

I think we can leave the canonical posts for later. It's great to have that kind of project, but I figure close reasons are slightly more important.

orthocresol

15:22

Furthermore, I'm trying to set up the auto comment thing and I don't really want to link to the old homework policy :D

M.A.R.

@orthocresol There's only so many things to discuss.

And @Mart will again call me too fast. ʕ ⊃･ ◡ ･ ʔ⊃︵┻━┻

orthocresol

Well, we can start with my post that i'm writing up rn

M.A.R.

O.O

orthocresol

Don't worry, it's not anything groundbreaking.

M.A.R.

You back-stabbing *******

orthocresol

15:34

It's just a proposal for your eviction.

DHMO

@M.A.R. congratulations!

M.A.R.

@DHMO For being back-stabbed?

DHMO

@M.A.R. for your name in italics

M.A.R.

Dear God, bug report; DHMO is congratulating me randomly after election.

@DHMO That's because I'm a room owner, and I've been a room owner for a year and half.

DHMO

@M.A.R. oh, really

I must be the most observant molecule here

M.A.R.

15:35

No, hypothetically.

Of course really.

orthocresol

To be honest, I never noticed it.

But I did notice that my name is blue. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ugh

M.A.R.

Haha you better not mess up things 'cause you'll never get that right.

Wildcat

@M.A.R. Meow!

@M.A.R. you avatar looks ugly. :D

Just a violet square.

orthocresol

Meow

M.A.R.

@Wildcat Thanks.

@Wildcat If it weren't violet, it would've been invisible.

Wildcat

15:43

XD

orthocresol

Oxford cat.

M.A.R.

@orthocresol Very relevant pic, thank you

Wildcat

@orthocresol Catman! :D

Or Batcat... XD

orthocresol

Batcatdateat

DHMO

abc.net.au/news/2016-10-19/…

hBy2Py

16:01

@orthocresol Heh, I was being sarcastic, referring to your transient suspension of @M.A.R. :-D

@pH13-YetanotherPhilipp That search is so annoying. So many useful search terms are three- or four-letter acronyms that it won't let you use.

Only way I found it was because it was a post I'd made and I recognized some of the text.

M.A.R.

@DHMO And a larger beehive.

!!img/hexabenzocoronene

Chemobot

hBy2Py

@orthocresol @Mart ANOTHER THING ABOUT THE SE NETWORK SITE BEHAVIOR THEY DON'T TELL YOU ABOUT AND YOU JUST HAVE TO FIND OUT ABOUT YOURSELF ARRRRGGGHHHH

DHMO

@M.A.R. nice...

M.A.R.

@hBy2Py IKR LETS RANT ON META.CHAT

DHMO

16:07

@M.A.R. And a larger beehive:

!!img/dicoronylene

Chemobot

Jan

And a larger beehive:

!!img/graphene

Chemobot

No result found.

DHMO

@Jan hey, it doesn't count!

hBy2Py

Context for that allcaps thing:

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/26848/2015/8/11

DHMO

16:07

I'm just kidding, graphene is the standard beehive

M.A.R.

@hBy2Py I know. I asked you back then to give me access to that room but no response.

hBy2Py

@DHMO A theoretically-infinite beehive!

DHMO

but it's no fun

M.A.R.

BTW, I remember the other day I read something that said some beehives do contain pentagons too.

DHMO

:o

hBy2Py

16:09

@M.A.R. Hm. I didn't see that request, and I didn't get any sort of notification about an access request

M.A.R.

!!img/C540

hBy2Py

In any event, you're write-enabled now

Chemobot

No result found.

M.A.R.

@hBy2Py Thank you for allowing me to write in a frozen room.

DHMO

!!img/kekulene

Chemobot

16:11

hBy2Py

@M.A.R. Haha, point. I thought as owner I could unfreeze it, though...? Can't find any option for that. :-(

M.A.R.

@hBy2Py Only ~~gods~~ mods can unfreeze rooms.

@DHMO I like that name.

DHMO

> named in honor of August Kekulé, the discoverer of the structure of the benzene molecule.

hBy2Py

@M.A.R. Ah. Narf.

M.A.R.

I know

DHMO

16:13

@M.A.R. the famous Kekulé structure

@M.A.R. It's too meta

M.A.R.

No, benzene is the famous Kekule structure.

DHMO

I know

M.A.R.

@Ortho yes, it explodes.

DHMO

Now, let us have a look at the historically proposed structures of benzene:

M.A.R.

Guys guys, I need to find a question to ask.

@DHMO What is this, history class?

DHMO

16:15

@M.A.R. then ask

@M.A.R. kind of

M.A.R.

No history classes in this chat.

Jan

What? No wisdom in this chat?

DHMO

Another history class:

> I give the name of "phène" (φαινω, I illuminate) to the fundamental radical of the preceding acids, because benzene is found in illuminating gas.

In the original language (French):

> Je donne le nom de phène au radical fondamental des acides précédens (φαινω, j'éclaire), puisque la benzine se trouve dans le gaz de l'éclairage.

1,3-feeds

0

Q: MathJax guide for users

Prior to the election Loong and myself were discussing the existing formatting guidelines in chat. I am of the opinion that they can be improved. I am fairly sure Loong agrees, although we may not necessarily agree on how it should be improved. :) This post is to discuss that. I think this is the...

orthocresol

Why is 1,3-feeds so fast now o.o

DHMO

16:19

1. What is the molecule in the icon of *m*-feeds?
2. What?? Kekulé structure??

orthocresol

@M.A.R. It's unfrozen now.

hBy2Py

@orthocresol <grin> I bet you enjoyed that.

M.A.R.

@orthocresol Do we find ourselves another servant?

hBy2Py

Yep. Enjoyed it.

in SE Users Learning Curve, 10 mins ago, by Stack Exchange

orthocresol has caused this room to undergo a phase transition from solid to liquid.

M.A.R.

To be more precise, did I find myself a new servant?

hBy2Py

16:30

@M.A.R. Careful where you wave that wand. Also, remember what happens when you ask genies for wishes -- choose your words... carefully.

M.A.R.

@Ortho I wish that you remain my genie for eternity.

Kidding BTW

orthocresol

@M.A.R. Luckily you mentioned you were kidding, or I might have accidentally suspended you again.

M.A.R.

Darnit

Jan

@M.A.R. My @orthogenie in a bottle?

orthocresol

@hBy2Py also, not sure if you are serious or not, but he was never suspended...

M.A.R.

16:33

@Jan He's in Antarctica, so I'd say an ice cube, not a bottle

hBy2Py

@orthocresol Oh -- where'd that screencap come from, then? Photoshop?

M.A.R.

@hBy2Py Inspect element

orthocresol

@hBy2Py mspaint, or the OS X equivalent of it

Jan

@M.A.R. I thought he was northern hemisphere.

M.A.R.

Eww Paint

hBy2Py

16:34

Ah

M.A.R.

@Jan Seals are southern hemisphere

orthocresol

@M.A.R. I would've done that in chrome, which would've made it seem slightly more well-edited. I'm on safari now.

hBy2Py

That's slightly less hilarious, then.

orthocresol

Fairly sure you can do it in safari too, just can't be bothered to figure out how..

Jan

orthocresol

16:35

@hBy2Py Haha.. well.. I can't suspend a user just for laughs. That's probably legitimately abuse.

M.A.R.

@Jan OMG everything has burned

hBy2Py

@orthocresol I thought you'd suspended him long enough to get the screencap, then un-suspended. But, maybe it's not so trivially undone, with broader, permanent consequences?

orthocresol

I don't know how far-reaching a temp suspension is. But, on physics, it stopped people from running in the elections.

hBy2Py

Yow.

orthocresol

Even if I unsuspend him, it will still leave a mark on his profile, so...

I draw the line at creating rubbish questions on main site and spamming comments :D

hBy2Py

16:39

I guess that encourages mods to think long and hard before using the mod powers. A good incentive to have in place!!

orthocresol

I might just create a new user just to see what happens.

Pretty sure I've seen Shog9 or someone else admit to doing that to test stuff out.

Bernard Meurer

I'm just passing by to state once again that all chemists are insane

orthocresol

@BernardMeurer You looking to get suspended?

Bernard Meurer

@orthocresol You're proving my point :p

orthocresol

^^

M.A.R.

16:46

@orthocresol That's allowed

DHMO

@M.A.R. Where's your question?

32 mins ago, by M.A.R.

Guys guys, I need to find a question to ask.

M.A.R.

@DHMO ?

@DHMO Well, I still need to find a question to ask.

A good question.

DHMO

@M.A.R. any idea currently?

M.A.R.

@Ortho making sock puppet accounts is only banned if you use them to do what one person can't do. Like upvote yourself.

@DHMO Not in the past 25 minutes.

I'm busy studying.

DHMO

Alright

M.A.R.

16:48

Don't have time to think.

orthocresol

@M.A.R. Thanks.

M.A.R.

Hanks

Jan

17:02

0

Q: What determines the color of an element?

What determines the colour of an element, and what makes a compound transparent or opaque ? For example, diamond is mostly transparent and coal is opaque, but both are made up of carbon atoms. I know their structure and bonds are different, but how do these factors determine the color?

elements color

@Jan I love it when Muricans use their wrong ou spelling but forget to decorrect a colour in the body =D

It's Christmas soon! Chemists are publishing stars!

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/anie.201608754/asset/…

You should be able to open an early view article, should you not?

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201608754/full

Danielix

i love chemistry

Jan

@Danielix D= What a weird thing to say.

M.A.R.

@Danielix Weirdo

!!greet/@Daniel

Chemobot

Welcome to The Periodic Table @Daniel! Here are our chat guidelines and it's recommended that you read them. If you want to turn Mathjax on, follow the instructions in this answer. Happy chatting!

orthocresol

17:29

@M.A.R. ok, you've gotta explain what you're planning to do..

M.A.R.

Aug 7 '15 at 6:59, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin after I close my drama show on meta I wanna write the all-in-one new-user guide.

To sum up, I'm thinking of these things:

orthocresol

I see.

That's ambitious...

Yeah, go on. Sorry.

M.A.R.

- Closure policies policy-making
- All-in-one new user guide
- Some missing but important FAQs for the guide
- A reincarnation of TRE
- Gaining rep so I access 10k stuff
- MAYBE write some more guidance meta posts for more veteranish users, inspired by Brian's complaint
- Canonical version of dainty bounce
- Creating a vision of how our tags are so the tagging system becomes invulnerable to messiness.

The missing FAQ are at least one good FAQ for how to write a good title and what to and not to put in the title field.

orthocresol

Eh, no. I thought you were just talking about your all-in-one guide.

M.A.R.

Also how to format the question body in the correct way.

@orthocresol I'll get to that.

orthocresol

17:40

Great. I'll go and make dinner first.

M.A.R.

I wanna bookmark this for later use, since I'm forgetful.

ffahim

Good evening ........ everyone

M.A.R.

@ffahim Evening

TRE II will to have be something more comprehensive than TRE I.

We should not only edit bad tags, but also titles, body, formatting etc.

The all-in-one guide will be a big meta post with a separate TL;DR; answer.

It will include a summary of all the sections. In short, it will get users started.

We already wrote something about tagging.

And there's the numerous mathjax posts.

ffahim

I would like to discuss about chemistry naming problem ... would u mind to help me ? @M.A.R.

Organic chemistry

M.A.R.

@ffahim Let me make a separate room, and we'll chat there.

ffahim

17:43

Okay hmm better idea

orthocresol

@M.A.R. How basic is your mathjax section going to be?

I don't see a basic mathjax post being significantly shorter than what I wrote. At most we simply remove the entire section about units.

M.A.R.

@orthocresol It's not going to be basic. It's just not going to teach that much. I mean, you can only learn so much when you've never seen the syntax.

It's gonna be something that doesn't make people go dizzy.

All we're trying to do here is to smooth up the learning curve.

orthocresol

How much?

M.A.R.

As much as is possible.

AIWS, the sections in the all-in-one user guide include, but are not limited to, sections about site UI, special pages, tagging, what is appropriate as a question and as an answer, how to write a good title, how to format properly, what correct typography looks like, and what meta and chat are for.

I don't have a good vision of what FAQ's for veteran users will look like, but they'd contain a lot of links.

They'd prolly introduce useful sites and pages they didn't know of, and some meta.SE or meta.SO pages on how to do cool stuff.

The 'Hidden points of editing' meta post was a success, and the tips are actually very good.

It's pretty clear what the meta post for writing canonicals will look like. It will follow dainty bounce's style.

Questions that fit a certain criteria, but are too broad, will be candidates for canons.

Moving on.

The last option that just occurred to me is inspired by a situation we have on ELL.

To make a long whining short, ELL's tagging system is a hell.

So I thought of fixing it, but whenever you retag a question with a bad tag, another bad tag pops up.

That made me think, and I have a vision of a post, a series of posts or whatever that can contain info that contains the vision we have of tags.

What should tags denote?

How broad or narrow should they be?

If we're to allow few meta tags, what will those tags distinguish?

etc etc.

They are questions a clear mind on tags will answer.

And with such a vivid outlook, no bad tag can easily sneak in and gain popularity.

It's a very strong answer to most tagging problems in the future, but since it'll be a first, we need to first figure out how to pull such a thing off.

Do we want a tag hierarchy?

Do we want a system of a few large tags that the smaller tags redefine and specify?

MAR OK, you've gotta explain what you're planning to do.

50 mins ago, 42 minutes total – 52 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked just now by M.A.R.

orthocresol

18:20

OK. Let's just talk about the mathjax first.

I'm not trying to say who's right or wrong. Just want to avoid extra effort on your part or my part or anyone's part for nothing.

M.A.R.

Obviously I'm right and everyone else is wrong.

@orthocresol I think you should change your post to account for typography, and a comprehensive tutorial at that, and then we can both edit the mathjax thing to be what we like it to be

orthocresol

As far as mathjax intro is concerned, you want to have a very short post, and then link them to somewhere else?

If it's just typography, I don't think we need to do anything ;) Loong will write all of it..

M.A.R.

@orthocresol Well, that short thing is gonna be part of something very Loong

@orthocresol JUST EDIT YOUR POST ALREADY

orthocresol

The question is, where will you link to

M.A.R.

Both your post and the mathjax thing.

But I wanna link to only one large post per section.

That's why they both shouldn't exist.

LET'S RISE UP AGAINST MANISH

orthocresol

18:30

OK. Then, we replace Manish's post with mine, or whatever it becomes after this discussion.

Vedant

Hello people

M.A.R.

@orthocresol Well, if your post becomes about typography, and manish's about Mathjax, I don't see why we should remove one of them.

@Vedant Jello people

Vedant

@M.A.R. You a moderator too?

M.A.R.

@Vedant No, I'm something even fancier.

orthocresol

@M.A.R. Simply because we feel that manish's needs some reworking.

M.A.R.

18:33

@orthocresol Well, we'd rework it then, not remove it.

hBy2Py

@M.A.R. Such posts would also be a natural starting point for editing down into tag wikis.

orthocresol

Yeah. I edited my post already to reflect that.

Vedant

Cool. Noobies like me, dont understand anythin you are talkin about @M.A.R. @orthocresol

M.A.R.

@hBy2Py Yes, but of thinking of something bigger. Something that takes all the tags into account.

Brian something that'd tell us when not to create a tag, simply because it doesn't fit well among the existing tags.

Something THAT effective.

@Vedant Don't tell anyone but I'm not sure we understand anything we talk about either

It just flows.

hBy2Py

Mmph. So, sort of like a 'tag map'? Seems awkward in the SE format, without some sort of a digital whiteboard or something.

M.A.R.

18:37

@hBy2Py Yes, a tag map. And we might use some other medium or whatever.

We first need to know what to write in that blackboard. :)

hBy2Py

A Google Drawing or somesuch, maybe.

M.A.R.

I prefer blackboards to whiteboards.

hBy2Py

@M.A.R. Ok, we'll change the canvas color before we start.

I'll see if they have a 'chalk' linestyle....

M.A.R.

@hBy2Py Now we're talking

hBy2Py

@M.A.R. The big question is, do we have a chance at resolving the computational-chemistry / theoretical-chemistry / etc. boondoggle?

M.A.R.

18:44

@hBy2Py Of course we do. Redefine scope up to the point that it doesn't become counter-intuitive, and prolly create or remove a couple of tags.

Again, meta work.

hBy2Py

@M.A.R. I admire your enthusiasm for it. :-)

Thanks for being willing to dive in.

M.A.R.

Sure.

If only I could be done with this Konkur bullshit.

I'd've devoted even more time.

hBy2Py

<googles>

Ugh. Yeah, entrance exams are the worst.

Bounty Hunter

20:18

1

Q: Which is more amphoteric: zinc or copper hydroxide?

$\ce{K_{a} ~Cu(H2O)_6^2+}{=~5*10^{-7}} $ $\ce{K_{a} ~Zn(H2O)_6^2+}{=~2.5*10^{-10}} $ Given this information, which forms a more amphoteric hydroxide? My reasoning is that copper hydroxide is more amphoteric than zinc hydroxide. My reasoning is that because $\ce{K_{a} ~Cu(H2O)_6^2+}$ > $\ce{K...

inorganic-chemistry analytical-chemistry

Dissenter

20:39

Sup

Mithoron

@Dissenter o/

Dissenter

what's your take on my question :p

It's a freshman undergrad course asking this question :D

Mithoron

@Dissenter I thought about it when you asked but your edit covered my thoughts to some extent

Dissenter

What's your answer?

This is 5 points on a 35 point lab

Haha :p

Mithoron

@Dissenter Really?

Dissenter

20:47

Yes

It is so easy that freshmen chemistry students can answer it!! /s

/s /s /s

Mithoron

That's bad 'cause it doesn't make sense, sort of

Dissenter

LOL

;(

:'(

you want me to post a pic of the lab in question?

Mithoron

You're laughing or crying :D

Dissenter

Both

time to call martin and his dft calculations

Mithoron

:D

Well, I guess the guy who made it had something in mind but was confused or didn't know how to put it...

@penta o/

pentavalentcarbon

20:52

@hBy2Py ahahahahahaha

o/

@orthocresol someone has an itchy trigger flipper/fin/animal appendage

Mithoron

@Dissenter Dunno, if you think original pic could help

Dissenter

Texas carbon can u assist us

pentavalentcarbon

@hBy2Py CCL is trash and I stopped reading once Yahoo killed Pipes so I couldn't have it in an RSS feed anymore

ohohohoho what's up?

orthocresol

I agree, I have no clue what "more amphoteric" means.

:/

pentavalentcarbon

I don't even know what "amphoteric" is...

Mithoron

20:58

@pentavalentcarbon LOL

pentavalentcarbon

oooooooo ok

orthocresol

Oct 5 at 13:06, by orthocresol

@pentavalentcarbon shakes head these computational chemists..

pentavalentcarbon

I would buy you a celebratory drink but you're across the pond, underage, and a bit snarky

orthocresol

@pentavalentcarbon You looking for a timed suspension?

MAR OK, you've gotta explain what you're planning to do.

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