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12:00 PM
so till then the remaining ones can conduct
but why do ions conduct thrpugh eleectrons only in the liquid or molten state?
or what is even the diff. between liquid or molten states?
 
user116211
@MartianCactus, Since, you are a 10 grader (damn, I missed that), what I wanted to mean could be put in Feynman's words:
 
@MartianCactus they cannot conduct through ions in the solid state
 
user116211
> [...] how an electron can ride right through the crystal and flow perfectly freely even though it has to hit all the atoms. It does so by having its amplitudes going pip-pip-pip from one atom to the next, working its way through the crystal. That is how a solid can conduct electricity.
 
@MartianCactus electrolysis only happens at the vicinity of the electrode
 
whats amplitude? xD
i am saying conduction through electrons not ions
 
12:03 PM
@MartianCactus electrons are probability waves, waves have amplitudes
 
in ionic compound
forgot what amplitude was..
 
(extremely inaccurate diagram for waves of electrons)
 
aoh yeah
sorry xd
 
user116211
@orthocresol It's that the $n$th base state of the electron implies the electron is at atom number $n$ at $x_n\;.$ You can make the basis as $|n-1\rangle, ~|n\rangle, ~|n+1\rangle\;.$
 
@MartianCactus so at most at the solid state you can only electrolyse the two atoms touching the two electrodes
and also the crystal is preventing the structure from breaking
 
12:05 PM
how does electrons use its amplitude
 
the crystal keeps the atom from being electrolysed
@MartianCactus that's not intended for a 10th grader at all, lol
 
@MAFIA36790 i mean, you are talking about entirely free electron model right
i know what you mean
i am just being...
 
how can an ionic compound NOT use electrons to conduct electricity in solid state and how can they do so in liquid states?
 
what is the word...
 
@MartianCactus they would have to break the ionic bonds to be electrolysed in solid
in molten or aqeuous state, the ionic bonds are broken already (highly controversial for anyone else reading this)
 
12:06 PM
thats why we make quesous solutions to break the crustal isn't it?
 
@MartianCactus exactly
 
user116211
@MAFIA36790 Typo: $\mathrm C_n = a_ne^\frac{-\mathrm iEt}{\hbar}\;.$
 
ohh so they use valence electrons to conduc electricity right?
 
@user34388 i would say in aqueous definitely, in molten it is debatable
 
and in liquid form does the ionnic bonds break?
 
user116211
12:07 PM
@orthocresol I was talking about conduction/propagation of electron through solid/crystal. I know I may have not written rigorously in haste..... sorry ;P
 
@MartianCactus as i said it is a completely inaccurate way of describing the thing
more accurately i would say that the bonds break and form readily, allowing the ions to slide through each other (remember what liquid means?)
 
@MAFIA36790 i was just trying to be annoying haha
 
user116211
stares at @ortho
 
facetious
that's the word!
 
@orthocresolin aqueous definitely what?
 
12:10 PM
oh
 
ionic bonds are broken
 
user116211
BTW, where is Dead?
 
so they break and bond again
nope
 
@MartianCactus yes, are you from France?
just curious
 
12:11 PM
(since i dont know why, but some people get offended when i ask them their nationality)
 
i have no idea
 
so in lizuid forms the vaence electrons are sometimes free as they are not used in bonding
liquid***
 
valence electrons??
 
user116211
@MartianCactus You can edit your message.
 
12:12 PM
that spelling
i know but its a little messy and i gtg
tuition
just answer
in liquid forms the vaence electrons are sometimes free as they are not used in bonding
quick
or are they free all the tine
are all bonds broken in liquid ionic compounds?
and is it just a mixture of 2 or more ions?
 
@orthocresol would you answer this? i have no idea
 
i don't know either
 
and is it just a mixture of 2 or more ions?
i gtg so ping me on this
 
@MartianCactus i assure you there is no third ion?
 
idk
still confused about the liquid part
cya
 
12:19 PM
@MartianCactus whether the bonds are broken or not, is a matter of subjective interpretation, just like asking whether ionic bonds are intermolecular or intramolecular forces
the important thing is more of recognising it for what it is
in the molten state, the ions are just swimming around
you know it doesn't really matter whether you want to classify them as inter- or intramolecular, because the molecule doesn't really give a cr*p what you label it
likewise the molten salt doesn't really care what you think of its bonds
i really don't know what you mean with the valence electrons, that is an entirely unrelated concept
oh well
enough already, i'm off for now
cya guys
 
user116211
@orthocresol o/
 
user116211
I would also go back to my studies; bye @ortho.
 
@MAFIA36790 `(.•.)´
good luck, i am enjoying my holidays
for now
 
user116211
@orthocresol where?
 
back "home", as Jan said :)
 
user116211
12:26 PM
@orthocresol ;))
 
it's just summer hols now, got a couple of weeks or so left
 
user116211
@orthocresol Enjoy then ;D
 
12:57 PM
Is the nucleus affected by quantum effects? If so, what quantum effects?
 
1:48 PM
2. Is the Bronsted-Lowry theory of acids and bases more accurate/commonly used than the Arrhenius theory of acids and bases?
 
2:04 PM
3. if acid is proton+base, then is salt proton+2base?
acid <=> proton + base
acid + base -> salt + water
proton + 2 base -> salt + water ??!?!?!???!
so salt = proton + 2 base - water
4. wait, if we use the BL theory, what is a salt?
5. The most commonly cited limitation of the Arrhenius theory is that NH3 should be a base but it doesn't give hydroxide ion. This is far from what I have been taught in school, that a base is anything that reacts with an acid to give salt and water
 
2:41 PM
6. A promotion of the forgotten theory: the Usanovich theory of acids and bases
 
3:13 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
4:17 PM
so I am studying metallurgy
im on the topic- Metallurgical extractions of metals in low reactivity series
my teacher made us write in notes that metals in low R.S(Reactivity series) have to go through the process of roasting and then reduction to make the ore more concentrated
r to do the thing called the enrichment of the ore
she told that once roasting is done, metals in low R.S bond wit the oxygen and the other element of the compound get seperated resulting in an oxide of the metal
but when I checked the wiki page on "metallurgical operations" of metals in low R.S , it says that we only have to go through the process of roasting for metals of low R.S
it doesnt mention the reduction of metals
so I am confused
my teacher says that roasting of metals in low R.S make an oxide of the metal and seperates the other element of the compound but the wiki page says that it makes an oxide of the other element in the compound and seperates the metal
look at the example of Cu2S and ZnS
Please help
what i understand is that roasting is the process of burning of the metal to make an oxygen reaction occur
 
4:46 PM
@MartianCactus both are right; both the metal and the other element (sulfur) are made oxides.
Look at the equation: Cu2S + 1.5O2 -> Cu2O + SO2
The metal (Cu) and the other element (S) are both made oxides, forming Cu2O and SO2 respectively.
 
oh
that was so simple :p
also why cant we use roasting on a carbonate ore or calcination on a sulphite ore??
 
@MartianCactus do you have a source? not that I don't trust you
 
it just states Roasting is done with excess of air and calcification limited supply of air so Roasting cannot be carried on carbonate ores. which I don't think is an answer
 
5:07 PM
@MartianCactus be mindful that the following is not an answer
so we know that sulfide ores do need oxygen to decompose
e.g. Cu2S + 1.5O2 -> Cu2O + SO2
whereas carbonate ores undergo thermal decomposition by themselves
e.g. CaCO3 -> CaO + CO2
notice how the left hand side of the second equation does not contain oxygen
So calcination cannot be carried on sulfide ores because sulfide ores need oxygen
 
well why cant we just combine oxygen with calcium?
 
@MartianCactus where does the calcium come from?
 
i meant carbonate sorry
 
What would be the product?
carbonate ion cannot be oxidized
 
why cant we just force oxygen to carbonate? Sulphite and carbonate have the same charges so their pattern of bonding should also be similar
 
5:20 PM
sulphide can be oxidized while CO3^2- cannot be oxidized
The C in CO3^2- is said to be in its maximum oxidization state
 
oh
oxidising state is something that i am not yet familiar with but ok
i kinda get it
 
which is why I tried to avoid it
 
5:35 PM
nah i like getting familiar to more high lvl terms
im not THAT dumb XD
 
@MartianCactus Alright
 
but when people go into QM...THAT i cant understand
 
sure
 
5:48 PM
also why do we add Cu2S to Cu2O to reduce it?
@user34388 ping
 
 
2 hours later…
8:13 PM
22
Q: Why does ice water get colder when salt is added?

cspirouIt is well known that when you add salt to ice, the ice not only melts but will actually get colder. From chemistry books I know that salt will lower the freezing point of water. But I’m a little confused as to why it results in a drop in temperature instead of just ending up with water at 0 °C. ...

182,000 views... 22 upvotes...
 
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