The Periodic Table

PH13

00:03

@ToddMinehardt talk to/with me

Todd Minehardt

00:35

yes sir

what's up @PH13?

PH13

00:50

it's boring ;)

Todd Minehardt

nah, tell me

PH13

ok ... I wanted to write that I'm bored ... xD

Todd Minehardt

message received and understood :)

PH13

what are you doing besides editing?

Todd Minehardt

drinking some red wine, reading a not-so-good paperback, listening to the radio (news), and watching a real-time feed of hummingbird babies that are a week old. my wife is doing the same. it's very thrilling :)

basically waiting for the work week to start tomorrow

and you?

PH13

00:53

^^ work week is not so far away here

Todd Minehardt

right, you're ahead of me by a bit

i have a nice 40-hour week ahead of me. nothing very exciting, but it pays the bills...

PH13

I was calculating some nmr's and as they are done now I wonder what I want to do next ... there are some questions here that are interesting but I cannot answer them as either they are unclear or I don't have appropriate knowledge

Todd Minehardt

i feel the same way you do in re: those questions. i am not very good with organic, nor am i up to date with computational...

PH13

as most questions aren't computational and those which are are answered fast, that should not be the problem g

Todd Minehardt

eh, depends. i feel like a lot of questions, they are just one-time posts from homework, many times missing information - like chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/34583/…

but i suppose as long as people participate, then it gets worked out eventually

PH13

01:00

I wonder why those hw questions are posted here. there will not be an easy answer and the OP is often not interested in the answer ^^ .... when I think back to my school times there were hw given but it was not that bad if you didn't made them ... it was a little gambling ;)

Todd Minehardt

i was the same way with HW - and i feel the same way, we just worked on them and if we got them, fine, if not, then you learn the way...and the internet wasn't that mature when i was in school and grad school (1987-1999) :)

plus, i always learned more by trying to figure them out, even if i couldn't - i remember taking statistical mechanics in grad school, that was hard

PH13

the internet was rising while I was in school (til 2008) but even then it was not quite as today

Todd Minehardt

agreed - it was still not nearly as user-friendly as it is now

PH13

school means everything beneath(?) university

Todd Minehardt

for me, university + graduate school - so undergraduate 1987-1991 (the Bachelor's degree) and then 1992-1999 for Master's and Ph.D.

a little different than in Germany and much of Europe

here, it's elementary school typically until age 13/14, then 4 years of high school, and off to college at 17/18

PH13

01:09

here it is common to go to basic/elementary school when you are 5-6 years old from class 1 to 4 and then to a higher school from class 5 to {9,10,12,13} depending on what degree you want to reach. after that either an apprenticeship or the university follows

Todd Minehardt

from what i understand, it's much more concentrated in terms of what you study - correct? like, if you are on a science or other track early on, you take more of those classes?

PH13

it depends

our system is super stupid ... every state has it's own way of doing this

but in general I would say that you are right

Todd Minehardt

here we have no real specialization until university, and even then it's not overly focused

PH13

I could choose from class 10 upwards that I want more of chemistry, geography and english

Todd Minehardt

that's pretty cool. here, we get stuck taking all kinds of stuff that may or may not be of use to a particular person

PH13

01:16

over here is a big discussion about if higher school has to be done in 8 or 9 years ... many students are tortured through this finding process over the last and coming years

I'm lucky that I'm not in school anymore

Todd Minehardt

i feel the same way in re: no more school :)

my friend, i have to sign off - getting to the end of the evening here - catch you later!

PH13

have a nice evening :)

cu

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

05:05

@PH13 You didn't. I hardly get offended. I just went to . . . sleep.

@Ron you could've taken a screenshot and uploaded that.

PH13

08:14

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M phew ...

so are you a sleeper?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

\o

PH13

o/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

\o/

/o\

/o/

\o\

|o/

|o\

\o|

/o|

|o|

_o|

|o_

\o_

_o\

PH13

woohoo

/o/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

_o/

/o_

PH13

08:19

\o\

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Copier!

Isn't it somehow fishy how many new users (usually dumping homework) are named @Ron these days?

PH13

I thought the same ^^

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

75

A: How do we encourage edits to obsolete/out of date answers?

My vote is for Obsolete answer. As you have stated, the sorting would stop the new answer from being on top, which means the obsolete info is what the curious guy with the same question will face. This is a big con of adding a new answer, as I've seen lots of better newer answers not getting mor...

OMG it's standing at 75 now!

PH13

points comin in

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

MWAHHAHHAHAHA!

I kinda have earned 600 repz from that post till now. May @santiago feel jealous.

Hmm

Is this bold backticks?

It is!

santiago

08:38

omg it's up to 8 upvotes

8

A: What is wrong with questions about favorite things on Stack Overflow?

The primarily opinion based closed reason states, the important point being in bold: Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific exper...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

omg it's up to 9 upvotes

santiago

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M not jealous, proud

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Bah, I'm not your son.

santiago

omg it's up to 2 votes (yes, a chem.se question)

2

A: Le Chatelier's Principle: What does temperature do gas concentrations?

You are correct in saying that the increase in temperature causes the equilibrium to shift to the left, in the direction of the endothermic reaction. As the reaction continues in the endothermic direction, the concentrations of $\ce{SO3}$ will decrease in favour of the evolution of more $\ce{SO2}...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I have upboated that.

santiago

08:43

lol yes, it is a homework question, but the OP did explain themselves clearly which made it easier to answer

have decided that I am okay with answering well written homework questions

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Cool. BTW don't see you in the meta.

Busy breaking stuff?

santiago

well, nothing for me to say in meta, and I am always breaking stuff

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Why not? You always say good stuff in meta.

santiago

meh - i'll have a look

I don't have anything to add

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I have joined Movies and TV

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ADD!

PH13

08:55

o/ @santiago

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@santiago Good.

Watch some TV on my behalf.

PH13

Again nearly in street couch @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

santiago

@PH13 hydrogen iodide!

hey @PH13 I am afraid I submitted to temptation and answered a homework question chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/34615/15489

PH13

@santiago great

santiago

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I asked a question there

3

Q: Why is Los Angeles targeted for destruction so often in Hollywood movies?

One of my favourite types of films are ones where some form of cataclysm occurs (morbid I know). But one thing I have noticed in many films is the destruction of the city of Los Angeles (sometimes destroyed by itself and sometimes destroyed alongside other cities). Asides from the obvious Battl...

PH13

08:57

There was an attempt on solving the prob, so there is no reason to correct/support the attempt. :)

santiago

huh?

PH13

Regarding your hw answer

santiago

was stating that yes, their main idea is corret and then answering where they had confusion

PH13

Yes ... I was trying to say that this is perfectly fine for me

santiago

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

PH13

09:01

Hard to corrct my post here on smartphone :C

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

O.O

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M hm?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I searched for the abbr. of my name: google.nl/… And I got weird things as results.

Am I really that blue?

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M caused by alcohol abusus

santiago

tsk

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:04

What? No! I'm not German.

santiago

suuuure

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M that explains a lot

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm more not-blue-skinned than you think. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

santiago

suuuuure

PH13

You're blue dabadee dabaday ...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:05

eruuuuus

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

ಠ_ಠ

santiago

ಠ_ಠ

PH13

ಠ_ಠ

Next stop: Paradiesbahnhof West. Change here for regional and national destinations.

So ... afk ... have to talk with cash experts about my missing wealth

santiago

get som missing wealth for me

Loong

@PH13 sounds like bank robbery

PH13

It's a no go ... first world country without being rich ... pffff

santiago

09:12

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M you should join SO and Movies

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

NICE TRY.

santiago

chicken

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Where? Readies up fork

santiago

in the mirrror

PH13

Chicken?

@Loong maybe the bankers robbed my money :O is it robbery to get that back?

Loong

09:17

@PH13 sounds legit, but I am not a lawyer

santiago

and don't play one on TV?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

In soviet Germany, bankers rob you. Wait, that doesn't work.

santiago

In Soviet Something-land, cats stroke you

hmmm,,,

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hahaha!

4

Q: What movie or TV show had the first instance of heroes walking in slow motion?

There's a trope of heroes walking towards the camera in slow motion, shoulder-to-shoulder. What was the first movie where this kind of shot was used?

first-appearance trope

santiago

see, you should join Movies

Loong

09:21

@santiago like Suits? Unfortunately not. I really love Donna.

santiago

@Loong dang!

I think we should conscript @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M to SO, so he can upvote all of us

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

OMG!

santiago

you look pretty

lol

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm tempted to pin that message.

santiago

go for it

lol

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:33

This is unexplainable.

santiago

creepy

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin FYI, this is what I get when I search your name in the internet along with "chemistry".

winterbash2014.stackexchange.com/leaderboard/…

Wow, last year I was the second hat-earner in the whole chem.SE.

Haha community is 19.

OMG I CAN'T WAIT FOR WINTERBASH 2015.

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M you should search for martin c schwarzer

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 Yeah . . . Like that's any better. I got this:

PH13

Btw, cash beauty said no money for me :C

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:43

Maybe it's because you're bitter.

Or maybe taste like soup. Who knows? Shrugs

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M In his blog you can see images if google is too stupid to do so ;)

Afk again ... time for lunch

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 @Martin haz a blog?!?!?!?!?!?

I'm speechless.

santiago

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M that's hot

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@santiago No wonder, it came up when I searched @Martin C. Schwarzer.

santiago

lol

PH13

10:36

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M look in his profile informations

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 I did. So?

PH13

there is the link to his blog

santiago

and pizza?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 Why are you Germans so complicated? Just gimme the link already! There's only a pdf link in his profile.

Loong

in The h Bar, 14 hours ago, by Slereah

That's because Germans are no fun at all

santiago

10:44

Chilean-Scottish-Australians are a mystery

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Does it really take only one of you to change a light bulb @Loong?

Loong

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M German light bulbs do not fail. Thus, we do not change them.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That's weird. It takes billions of Iranians to change one. We'd be so lazy with meh, the billionth of us will have to sit next to it and change it while lying on others.

@Loong Lies! Everything is Chinese these days.

Loong

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Then make the Chinese change the light bulbs!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Meh.

santiago

10:48

we don't need light globes, we illuminate the area with our awesomeness

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

There are so many jungle fires in Australia, they really don't need light bulbs.

santiago

heh

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I'm on smartphone ... everything is more conplicated here õo

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

LIIIIINNNNNKKK!

santiago

no

Loong

10:53

thedailystamp.wordpress.com

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh, website profile thingy.

I was shaking his about him upside down.

PH13

@Loong thx

santiago

lol

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Loong That's a lot of German. Now I need an eyewash.

Martin - マーチン

11:31

I was to lazies to keep writing that blog...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin-マーチン \o

Martin - マーチン

O hi yo/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

How're you doing?

First, are you on mobile @Martin?

Martin - マーチン

I am doing quite well thank you. And I am not on mobile right now.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Thank God.

Now I have you a lot, you may take a look at them . . . And I gotta run away . . .

Martin - マーチン

11:45

what? tis no make sense to me...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What doesn't make sense?

Martin - マーチン

8 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Now I have you a lot, you may take a look at them . . . And I gotta run away . . .

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Darn!

I forgot a verb: pinged.

I have pinged you a lot, you may take a look at them . . . And I gotta run away before you or your mod hammer grab me . . .

Martin - マーチン

haha... ;) tat's alright

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You may not deceive me into stepping closer.

Martin - マーチン

11:50

So... what else is going on?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Nothing much. The fun is in meta.SE now.

PH13

Yoooo @Martin-マーチン

o/

o\

o/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

|o_

'o.

Martin - マーチン

what's at meta?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

77

A: How do we encourage edits to obsolete/out of date answers?

My vote is for Obsolete answer. As you have stated, the sorting would stop the new answer from being on top, which means the obsolete info is what the curious guy with the same question will face. This is a big con of adding a new answer, as I've seen lots of better newer answers not getting mor...

Standing at . . . +77 now! OMG!

Martin - マーチン

11:57

okay... reading

sooo... obsolete answers ... welll

there's not much point to have that around chem.se is there?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

There is.

Loong

@Martin-マーチン maybe only when IUPAC change their rules again

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

IUPAC rules sometimes change a lot.

Well I completely agree with @SevenSidedDie. It's typically useful to have obsolete information around, but I can't think for one minute that the same holds for dangerous content. Blame my chemistry background for my example: If an answer in chem.SE is invalidated because of the newer IUPAC rules of nomenclature, then a new answer is more preferable, stating separately how the new rules hold. But if the answer is about handling a dangerous chemical, which is later proved to be a wrong way of handling, then I hardly think the consensus would be "leave the answer alone", let alone editing. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 2 days ago

Martin - マーチン

@Loong that is true...

Loong

for example, this answer was correct, but it is obsolete now

5

A: Is "Propanol" correct name according to the latest IUPAC nomenclature?

The last IUPAC nomenclature recommendations were published in 1993. The current draft documents (release date uncertain) are far more lenient in their acceptance of semi-systematic naming of molecules. Please make sure you understand the differences between the Preferred IUPAC Name (PIN), the ret...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:12

Long, Loong, confusing names O_o

Martin - マーチン

@Loong for a second there I thought the answer was by you...

Loong

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M That is evolution.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Revolution?

Loong

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M or that, maybe

Martin - マーチン

Isn't that naming scheme covered by the blue book?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:18

Whaddya mean? The Blue Book constantly changes . . .

Loong

@Martin-マーチン Yes. However, the current Blue Book was issued in 2013/2014 and the answer refers to 1993.

Martin - マーチン

yeah... so the answer had been outdated when it was posted...

Loong

@Martin-マーチン Im not sure whether the "2013 recommendations" were actually available in 2013.

Martin - マーチン

The were available dec 2013... and the question is from jul 2014

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Let's burn him alive!

Martin - マーチン

12:23

keep calm ;)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But it doesn't change the fact that answers can become obsolete in chem.SE.

Martin - マーチン

@Loong but since you have the book, care to post another updated answer?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

We're just not that old for that to happen  . . . yet.

Loong

@Martin-マーチン I will see what I can do.

Martin - マーチン

I would still not think the answer is obsolete

Loong

12:25

@Martin-マーチン not entirely

PH13

now give me sth to join in :D obsolete iupac rules ... pfff

Loong

@Martin-マーチン The first sentence is the main issue.

Martin - マーチン

yeah, just the resource is obsolete, the rest is fine

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

WE WILL GET ANSWERS OBSOLETE. JUST WAIT AND SEE

Martin - マーチン

yes that's right... it is basically only asking, if propanol is an accepted name

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:27

^ What I saw on a banner a while ago.

@Martin-マーチン FTW it is accepted, just not PIN.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M well that might be true... but doesn't it depend also on your definition of obsolete

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin-マーチン NO

Just to prove my point.

Martin - マーチン

Explain

I do not understand how that proves your point

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Imagine a question of 2012 about nomenclature, revisited at 2025.

When I actually grow up to be chemist.

What are the chances the PIN isn't a PIN anymore?

And when the number of those answers increases, we will need an official process to take care of the old ones, as you can't open a meta thingy about each and every answer.

PH13

You can ... but you don't want to

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:35

That's the point.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Then the answer is outdated, but not obsolete

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

People'll get bored if this isn't like a game.

@Martin-マーチン You're weird.

Martin - マーチン

Excuse me?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What's the difference?

Where did you go @Mart?

Martin - マーチン

apparently I have a different take on the matter... obsolete sounds for me like it is wrong now

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:38

BTW @Martin did I offend you?

@Martin-マーチン It could be a big change.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That's exactly how obsolete is defined in this context.

Loong

That sounds like ISO 9001:
> A documented procedure shall be established to define the controls needed (…) to prevent the unintended use of obsolete documents, and to apply suitable identification to them if they are retained for any purpose.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Though it's kinda ill-defined.

@Martin-マーチン Begs for forgiveness

Martin - マーチン

ಠ_ಠ

Okay... no worries...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:41

Obsolete is . . . ಠ_ಠ  . . . As I was saying, obsolete is when a great answer stops being as great because it isn't as correct anymore.

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M new sanctions will rise to iran now

Just because of you. @Martin-マーチン is very powerful

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 A tsunami just hit our house. It had From Japan, with love on it.

Loong

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Moderators can do this?

PH13

That's exactly what I meant

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Loong Pfft. Do you think @Martin is just a mod?!

Martin - マーチン

12:43

What I mean is, that there are times where the IUPAC nomenclature is outdated from a modern point of view, but the answer is not wrong just because it is not used any more. At the time of the question, the answer is correct and it will therefore remain correct in that time

PH13

@Loong german-japanese robotic super moderators only

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

He's something faster, braver, stronger . . .

@Martin-マーチン But less correct.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M haha... you give me too much credit

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It will lose its value from being the best answer to being a nice answer.

Loong

@PH13 hm. I am just "German moderator"

Martin - マーチン

12:44

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M no, it's the only correct answer when you come about documents from the time

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So, all of that fluff in meta.SE is for the better answer, more updated answer, rise above.

PH13

Well ... that's somehow the question. Should the answers be correct forever? Do we have to update every answer that is not correct anymore? That's a hard task!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 Read the meta thingy.

PH13

But then I can't follow the chat TT___TT

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So, what I'm basically suggesting, is that because better, updated answers don't get as many votes as the outdated ones, they're not on top.

So, I'd vote as obsolete or outdated or whatever so that the answer sorting will remain.

When there's a lot of editing going on, an important edit to an answer gets lost.

78

A: How do we encourage edits to obsolete/out of date answers?

My vote is for Obsolete answer. As you have stated, the sorting would stop the new answer from being on top, which means the obsolete info is what the curious guy with the same question will face. This is a big con of adding a new answer, as I've seen lots of better newer answers not getting mor...

PH13

12:47

Maybe old points can get fewer weights over time?

Martin - マーチン

Yeah I like your meta post...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 That isn't an option.

Martin - マーチン

On chem.se I'd prefer close-locking the post and asking a new question

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It was rejected a while ago

@Martin-マーチン Of course, we could develop a system like that.

I've persuaded you that answers can get less nice over time. Next time, I'll persuade you into admitting that yogurt is black.

Martin - マーチン

I see the problem on bigger sites though... and seeing, that chem might rise to be a giant, too... it is necessary to develope a working solution...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:49

@Martin-マーチン @Ron is already upset about the less quality of the questions.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M that is a disgusting thought... but then yoghurt is not such a nice thought either

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin-マーチン Admit that yogurt is black.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M how do you know?

PH13

Isn't there black ice cream with ink in japan?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 Let's make him run away from chat.

@Martin-マーチン He visited yesterday or the day before.

PH13

12:51

I want @Martin-マーチン to stay :O

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

20 hours ago, by ron

I did post on this subject in meta back in Nov. http://meta.chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/555/state-of-the-union

@Mart read up and down and sunder from there.

Martin - マーチン

i remember that post... though

@PH13 I have seen black burgers, but not ice cream...

gawker.com/…

that scares the sh** out of me though

PH13

kotaku.com/ice-cream-can-get-bizarre-in-japan-1508055176

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm pretty certain Japanese anime is to blame.

PH13

@Martin-マーチン

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:55

HOLY  . . . !

ಠ_ಠ

Martin - マーチン

not so sure about that... there

but yeah, it might have a connection

here are some creepy flavours indeed

but the weirdest i have come across was tomato-icecream and i was told it's not that bad...

PH13

Will -CH2Br and -CH2OH give similar methylene NMR shifts?

Not that bad does not mean good but only not thaaaat bad ;D

Martin - マーチン

well... it can mean anything...

PH13

Maybe they are just polite and eat it? ^^

Martin - マーチン

but i had a tomato soda once... that was horrrrrrrrrrible

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:59

Eeeek.

Martin - マーチン

and than i had a tomato flavoured alcoholic soda, that was quite nice

Transcript for