The Periodic Table

santiago

13:03

you can do it

M.A.Ramezani

How? With a pure heart?

Breaking Bioinformatics

It's official. The treatment for depression is "Things I won't work with"

M.A.Ramezani

ALERT THE MEDIA!

Breaking Bioinformatics

@M.A.Ramezani And MAGIC!

santiago

he @BreakingBioinformatics is this colourful enough chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/18524/…?

M.A.Ramezani

13:04

No no! Don't upvote it!

santiago

lol

teehee

Breaking Bioinformatics

I'm a nice person @santiago

santiago

you are indeed!

Breaking Bioinformatics

Did you get your badge now?

santiago

@M.A.Ramezani is trying to steal our cookies

M.A.Ramezani

13:07

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO‌OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

santiago

@BreakingBioinformatics not yet, but it'll come

@M.A.Ramezani lol

Breaking Bioinformatics

hands @M.A.Ramezani a paper bag BREATHE.

M.A.Ramezani

@santiago Keep up the good work!

santiago

HEY! don't eat the paper bag!

lol

neeeeeeeeeeeeccccccccccccccccccccccccccccromancer! oh yeah oh yeah

M.A.Ramezani

santiago

13:10

you love it

Breaking Bioinformatics

@santiago has violated the Fifth Law of Magic.

santiago

again?

M.A.Ramezani

> Robots can't love.

?

santiago

damn... the world has gone mad - a beheading in France, a shootout killing 27 in Tunisia and a bombing in a Kuwaiti Mosque

Breaking Bioinformatics

dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/…

M.A.Ramezani

13:12

@santiago That's because you got the necromancer.

Breaking Bioinformatics

@M.A.Ramezani Indeed.

santiago

that escalated quickly

M.A.Ramezani

This. Is. Only. The. Beginning. MWAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHHAHHAHAHHHA etc.

santiago

darn right

so, @M.A.Ramezani you gonna get your necromancer?

Breaking Bioinformatics

@M.A.Ramezani img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120501023419/villains/images/0/0f/…

M.A.Ramezani

13:15

Darn right I am$\ldots$ IF I find a question.

@BreakingBioinformatics Yeah$\ldots$ That was a nice student of mine.

santiago

would you like us to select a question for you?

M.A.Ramezani

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/259508/…

Breaking Bioinformatics

Incidentally, what is $\ldots$ supposed to do?

M.A.Ramezani

5 downvotes in 10 seconds.

Yeah.

@BreakingBioinformatics It's the correct form of showing ellipsis.

... isn't correct.

It should have some spaces in between.

Breaking Bioinformatics

@M.A.Ramezani I actually see "ldots" in between "$"

M.A.Ramezani

13:18

Then turn MathJax on!

Breaking Bioinformatics

I see MathJax on the actual Q and A site.

But not on here.

M.A.Ramezani

You should turn it on here.

Breaking Bioinformatics

How?

M.A.Ramezani

It's not on by default, in any of the SE chatrooms.

Apr 23 at 12:09, by Martin

ChatJax (LaTeX in Chat) with enabled mhchem

Copy the code in @Martin's answer. Make a bookmark.

And then drag the bookmark to the tab.

Breaking Bioinformatics

When I try to make a bookmark.

It says to define the messages that start and end the conversation I want to bookmark

M.A.Ramezani

13:22

Wut?

@BreakingBioinformatics No no! Bookmark as in the browser's bookmark.

That's bookmarking a conversation in chat.

Breaking Bioinformatics

Oh.

Let me see if that worked.

$\ldots$

Nope.

Let me check now $\ldots$

No.

M.A.Ramezani

Did you drag the bookmark to the browser tab?

Breaking Bioinformatics

It won't drag at all.

M.A.Ramezani

Click and hold the mouse on the bookmark, then drag it to the tab.

Notice that ChatJax bookmarklet I've made.

I drag it to the tab. Let me see if I can make a screenie.

Breaking Bioinformatics

Did that.

Let me try one more time now.

$\ldots$

M.A.Ramezani

13:28

$\heartsuit$

Breaking Bioinformatics

NOPE.

M.A.Ramezani

O.o

What code do you use?

Breaking Bioinformatics

What do you mean?

M.A.Ramezani

Did you copy the code in @Martin's answer?

Breaking Bioinformatics

Yup.

M.A.Ramezani

13:30

(BTW I'm totally making him get that publicist badge)

@BreakingBioinformatics Then pasted it in as a bookmark address?

Breaking Bioinformatics

Yes.

getafix

Hi.

Breaking Bioinformatics

Then I clicked and dragged it from the book mark bar thingie into the tab.

M.A.Ramezani

Hullo @Get!

Breaking Bioinformatics

@getafix Hi!

M.A.Ramezani

13:32

@BreakingBioinformatics And released the mouse?

getafix

Long time no see..everyone.

Breaking Bioinformatics

Yes.

M.A.Ramezani

Yeah.

What's up?

santiago

HI @getafix! @M.A.Ramezani has been inconsolable in your absence!

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

Sorry guyz I had to attend an experiment so didn't able to answer all '???????'s

Breaking Bioinformatics

13:33

@M.A.Ramezani The radial direction that points outward from the Earth's center of gravity.

M.A.Ramezani

Was I consolable when he (?) was present?

getafix

@santiago Hahaha. @M.A.Ramezani: fair point.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

@M.A.Ramezani I'm just stuck on this concept.

M.A.Ramezani

What concept?

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

Any one could help would be great.

M.A.Ramezani

13:35

@santiago really likes to help you.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

about the question I asked @M.A.Ramezani

Breaking Bioinformatics

@diffracteD What is it?

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

should I through it again.. !!

Breaking Bioinformatics

Yes.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

2

Q: Electronic density distribution in hydrogen bond

$diffracteD$ I'm currently studying about the atomic configuration of electrostatic interactions. Concept is there that in case of interactions like in N-H...N-H (amides), the stability depends on the position of resonating electron between H...N nuclei (THE NATURE OF THE CHEMICAL BOND. II. THE ONE-ELECTRON B...

M.A.Ramezani

13:36

That's too much scrolling up @dif.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

here it is...

santiago

LOL

M.A.Ramezani

Well, what is your exact question?

@dif I don't know if any of the guys currently here can help with DFT calculations.

getafix

Would love to weigh in, but i can't lol

M.A.Ramezani

But about the hydrogen bond concept, I think we can have our shot.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

13:41

any concept regarding 'electronic resonance w.r.t. atomic geometry' from the electronic density distribution's point of view

@M.A.Ramezani go ahead.

I can use anything...

M.A.Ramezani

> Because water forms hydrogen bonds with the donors and acceptors on solutes dissolved within it, it inhibits the formation of a hydrogen bond between two molecules of those solutes or the formation of intramolecular hydrogen bonds within those solutes through competition for their donors and acceptors.

> Consequently, hydrogen bonds between or within solute molecules dissolved in water are almost always unfavorable relative to hydrogen bonds between water and the donors and acceptors for hydrogen bonds on those solutes. Hydrogen bonds between water molecules have a duration of about 10−10 seconds.

santiago

lemurs

M.A.Ramezani

> Hydrogen bonding strongly affects the crystal structure of ice, helping to create an open hexagonal lattice. The density of ice is less than the density of water at the same temperature; thus, the solid phase of water floats on the liquid, unlike most other substances.

@santiago What? They have hydrogen bonding too?

santiago

yes, yes they do

M.A.Ramezani

Ah man. Serious discussions in two chatrooms. Slap me! Quick! Before it's too late.

Breaking Bioinformatics

13:46

slaps @M.A.Ramezani and stretches him out on the tiles

M.A.Ramezani

Any of that info helps? @Dif?

@BreakingBioinformatics Thanks.

santiago

slaps @M.A.Ramezani with a rubber chicken

Breaking Bioinformatics

@santiago Mine was better.

getafix

I have a real quick question, one of our lab instructors asked as to determine the pKa of HCl based on the titration curve we drew out, and I don't really know what to do (end of a 12-hour work day..my brain is half dead). any help would be appreciated.

M.A.Ramezani

Can you give some screenshot or what of the titration curve?

santiago

13:49

lol

getafix

Sure thing. haha

M.A.Ramezani

@Dif I read your question. I agree it's vague.\

The electron between two nuclei?!

santiago

@BreakingBioinformatics i think @M.A.Ramezani likes being slapped

M.A.Ramezani

Hydrogen bonds occur because there's some interesting negative charge on one electronegative atom and there's a little concentration of positive charge.

@santiago I do. Specially if your hand's wet with cold water.

santiago

CREEPY!

getafix

13:52

Breaking Bioinformatics

throws snowballs at @M.A.Ramezani

getafix

probably not the best..meah.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

what I tried to mean is the electron density shared by H nuclei and O nuclei to form the H bond @M.A.Ramezani

santiago

throws @BreakingBioinformatics at @M.A.Ramezani

M.A.Ramezani

@getafix How many millileters of that does it take for a pH =7?

Plug it in the formula.

@diffracteD They don't form the H bond!

Breaking Bioinformatics

13:54

uses a judo move to throw @santiago into @M.A.Ramezani instead

M.A.Ramezani

H bond is like this: OH . . . H.

The three dots (I should've used LaTeX) are the H bond.

santiago

that was fun

M.A.Ramezani

There's no electron cloud shared between the H on the right and the O bonded with another H!

santiago

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

getafix

@M.A.Ramezani: How does the pKa relate to the equivalence point? From this plot, 10,0 mL of titrant; I also plotted the first derivative vs vol and found eqv. at 9.9 mL.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

13:56

yes, the HO...H are supposed to share a single electron resonance. Isn't it ! @M.A.Ramezani

On the way to success

HEY

M.A.Ramezani

@diffracteD No! That's not what I thought.

That just can't be true.

There's no electron sharing. This is an intermolecular force!

On the way to success

hell-llo

M.A.Ramezani

Hullo!

On the way to success

what's up

santiago

13:57

ketchup

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

force of what ! there must be an electronic density sharing to generate the 'force' as I think @M.A.Ramezani

M.A.Ramezani

I'm fighting with four people here.

@diffracteD No. The force is an electrostatic attraction.

On the way to success

@santiago: Lemm me see what is ketchup

Obviously I don't know it

@M.A.Ramezani

I'll be silent for few minutes

So one is reduced

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

yeah! but an electrostatic interaction must share some electronic orbitals otherwise how the interaction gonna happen if there is no sharing @M.A.Ramezani

M.A.Ramezani

See @dif, it happens because O takes away the H on the left's electron most of the time. That gives it a considerable amount of negative charge.

Mithoron

13:59

@M.A.Ramezani Yes, there is electron density in hydrogen bond @diffracteD is right

On the way to success

You have to deal with 3

M.A.Ramezani

Oh, there is? Tell me more @Mith.

@Onthewaytosuccess I suggest reading the transcript. I only have 10 fingers to type with.

santiago

8 fingers and 2 thumbs, you mutant

On the way to success

ooooookay @M.A.Ramezani

M.A.Ramezani

@santiago Hush! There's another room for X men.

santiago

14:02

lol

On the way to success

I have one quiz, I'll ask it later

M.A.Ramezani

Ask it now. I'm hot.

On the way to success

About

getafix

@M.A.Ramezani: Help me first. :( You make me sad.

M.A.Ramezani

Hey I forgot about you.

What was the titrant?

What was the question?

getafix

14:03

KOH

On the way to success

Ya help him first

santiago

@M.A.Ramezani what colour raincoat should I get?

PH13

@getafix afaik pKa of HCl is impossible to be determined in aqueous solutions.

Mithoron

Few days ago i was on lecture about hydrogen bond in DFT and yes there is, but no electrstatic/resonance stuff won't explain it

On the way to success

And leave me a message when you done

right @M.A.Ramezani

M.A.Ramezani

14:03

Holy crud! My brain is exploding!

4

getafix

@PH13 I had a feeling too. like we know pKa<1 . but how do I put an exact number on it?

M.A.Ramezani

@Mithoron Yes. I was thinking @dif is gonna run into trouble explaining stuff with that.

It seems he mixes it up with MOs. Or what.

@getafix How precise do you need to be?

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

@Mith I want to relate resonance with atomic configurations responsible with H bond formation. @M.A.Ramezani

getafix

@M.A.Ramezani: I haven't the slighteset idea..the lab instructions are as vague as vague can be.

M.A.Ramezani

O.O

getafix

14:06

Toss me an idea..any idea.

M.A.Ramezani

Be vague and take the pKa as 0.

santiago

tosses @getafix an idea

M.A.Ramezani

Fight fire with fire!

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

haha

getafix

Haha. too bad my work is graded.. I don't think i can afford to be cheeky.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

14:08

oh my dog! Grades again !

M.A.Ramezani

I know. That's why I say that.

On the way to success

Titration of NaOH and any acid with phenolphthalein and methyl orange as indicator

M.A.Ramezani

They usually don't dig that deep.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

agreed ! @M.A.Ramezani

On the way to success

???

M.A.Ramezani

14:09

??????

?????????????????

And so on.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

"they usually don't dig..."

On the way to success

what the heck out there to have different end points

???

?????

M.A.Ramezani

@Mith so you're saying in HO... H there's electron could distribution between the emboldened H and the emboldened O?

@diffracteD I know. But some question marks look beautiful on chat. Says @santiago.

Mithoron

@M.A.Ramezani Yeah, exactely, only weaker - it has some covalent character

getafix

@M.A.Ramezani: I need to relate it to my experimental results somehow, so if I say i pKa = 0 ..i need to justify why. I can't wrap my head around this lol.

santiago

14:11

@M.A.Ramezani darn tootin'

M.A.Ramezani

@Mithoron Oh, my gawd that's new to me.

@getafix Just say that it's so close to zero it's negligible.

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

here it is then. @santiago @M.A.Ramezani ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‌?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? *n (where n = 0/1).

Mithoron

@M.A.Ramezani Treating H bond as electrostatic is strong simplification

M.A.Ramezani

Ahan.

getafix

@M.A.Ramezani: I get that, but like knowing my instructor, he would want me to point to some data or something to justify.

M.A.Ramezani

14:13

@getafix Then get a data!

On the way to success

???

M.A.Ramezani

clas.sa.ucsb.edu/staff/Resource%20Folder/Chem109ABC/…

Or anything like that.

On the way to success

@M.A.Ramezani: Hey are you done:

M.A.Ramezani

Kinda.

Throw me your question.

On the way to success

Are you quite sure

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

14:16

hey hw are you @Onthewaytosuccess

On the way to success

@diffracteD: Doing good

itration of NaOH and any acid with phenolphthalein and methyl orange as indicator,

getafix

I have an idea. I did compute my concentration of acid. I have the intial pH = [H+] Ka = [h30+][cl-]/[hcl]? does that work?

M.A.Ramezani

Isn't it ironic that I'm younger than all of you? I dunno why you guys are asking me your stuff. Your room/office's wall can answer better.

Mithoron

@diffracteD Only symmetric hydrogen/covalent bonds can be viewed with mesomeric structures if that's the resonances you think about

M.A.Ramezani

@getafix Yes.

On the way to success

14:17

I'll be silent for few min

@M.A.Ramezani: when did you start to learn chem

Mithoron

Like in F-...H+...F- - 3-center-4-electron bond

M.A.Ramezani

@Onthewaytosuccess Haha everyone goes silent with you.

On the way to success

boohaaahhhoaa

heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

@Mithoron so if I try to relate this resonating electron density with atomic geometry (atoms participating in H bond), how wild this would be !?

heya @Onthewaytosuccess

so what do you do @Onthewaytosuccess

getafix

dang it.. @M.A.Ramezani if i do that with the data i have, i get pKa 3.3 dang it!

On the way to success

14:23

@diffracteD: Umm.. I am a student

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

@Onthewaytosuccess do you have any specialization !

On the way to success

in which area

I like organc chem

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

ok, datz good to know @Onthewaytosuccess

M.A.Ramezani

@diffracteD High school students don't have any specialization. Except me of course. I'm an expert in chatting.

And I have a PhD in lolic chemistry, if you wondered.

On the way to success

@diffracteD : I am still in pre-university type environment

getafix

14:26

lolic?

$diffracteD$

diffracteD

!? @M.A.Ramezani

On the way to success

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? what the heck is that lollic

M.A.Ramezani

Haha I got you guys confused.

On the way to success

lol chemistry

huh

isn't it

@M.A.Ramezani

M.A.Ramezani

@santiago will explain.

Runs away

On the way to success

14:27

Who

due to M.A.Ramezani forbear @M.A.Ramezani

M.A.Ramezani

I am not gonna tell you what branch of chemistry lolic chemistry is.

On the way to success

so you guys don't answer my quiz ,huh..

M.A.Ramezani

@Onthewaytosuccess What quiz?

You didn't even give us the question.

On the way to success

nt a quiz,

a confusion

Titration of NaOH and any acid with phenolphthalein and methyl orange as indicator

what is the difference out there

??

getafix

^I don't understand..

On the way to success

14:30

???

M.A.Ramezani

What do you mean by difference?

On the way to success

you'll get two different end points, for them

why is that

for same quantity of naoh and hcl

getafix

^How different?

M.A.Ramezani

Oh, you mean equivalence points?

On the way to success

yup

of course

getafix

14:32

equivalnce point =/= end point

On the way to success

<.^.>

M.A.Ramezani

Oh, yeah.

That's because you have two indicators.

On the way to success

equivalnce point = end point

M.A.Ramezani

@Onthewaytosuccess No it isn't.

On the way to success

@M.A.Ramezani: why

getafix

14:33

equivalence point is related to the end point, but it is not the same.

M.A.Ramezani

Yes.

On the way to success

there should bre a reason

M.A.Ramezani

Equivalence point is when there are the same amounts of acid and base.

getafix

Yes. the equivalence point is when their is equal stoichiometric amounts of titrant and analyte

M.A.Ramezani

Of course, acids and bases that are similar.

On the way to success

14:34

Damn... I have admitted in incorrectly

getafix

end point is the point at which the indicator changes color.

M.A.Ramezani

^.

On the way to success

ooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaay

M.A.Ramezani

So, you have two indicators, you get two end points.

On the way to success

now let's jump back to the quiz

PH13

14:35

for monoprotic acids I'm 100 % sure that the endpoint is the same as the equivalence point

On the way to success

but how it can be , when their equivalence point is same @M.A.Ramezani

@PH13: what abt others

M.A.Ramezani

Was it HCl and NaOH?

On the way to success

@M.A.Ramezani: For moment let's take that

PH13

@Onthewaytosuccess "what abt others"?

Hippalectryon

@M.A.Ramezani You should make the LaTeX link stickied, like in the math room

M.A.Ramezani

14:37

Yeah.

On the way to success

@PH13: "what abt others"?, I mean other diprotic acids

My dinner time also getting close ,@M.A.Ramezani,@PH13

heylllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooo

hoooooooooooooo

@M.A.Ramezani,@PH13

M.A.Ramezani

room topic changed to The Periodic Table: Haikus are awesome / Chemistry is more so / pull up a chair ||| Want to turn MathJaX on? Try meta.chemistry.stackexchange.com/q/89/7448 [lolic-chemistry]

On the way to success

what?

M.A.Ramezani

room topic changed to The Periodic Table: Haikus are awesome / Chemistry is more so / pull up a chair ||| Want to turn MathJaX on? Try [this](meta.chemistry.stackexchange.com/q/89/7448]. [lolic-chemistry]

PH13

@Onthewaytosuccess n-protic acids have n equivalence points and the n-th equivalence point is the endpoint

M.A.Ramezani

14:41

I wonder if it'll work.

On the way to success

exampless ,please.....?

M.A.Ramezani

@PH13 Correct.

On the way to success

hooooooiaaa

@M.A.Ramezani: I need few examples

@PH13 hey

oooooooooooops

PH13

can you explain what examples you want to have?

On the way to success

examples related to what I have asked

M.A.Ramezani

14:44

Like a diprotic acid?

On the way to success

yup

M.A.Ramezani

dwb.unl.edu/calculators/activities/diproticacid.html

Like that. ^

On the way to success

I have to give a sight to it..,

M.A.Ramezani

Please do give.

On the way to success

what is to do give

@M.A.Ramezani: d u play cricket

it take long time bro

@M.A.Ramezani, @PH13, bbbbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, I am leaving

PH13

14:53

@Onthewaytosuccess bye

M.A.Ramezani

@Ont bye!

@Onthewaytosuccess No, cricket isn't that famous in Iran.

room topic changed to The Periodic Table: Haikus are awesome / Chemistry is more so / pull up a chair ||| Want to turn MathJaX on? Try meta.chemistry.stackexchange.com/q/89/7448. [lolic-chemistry]

Transcript for