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12:19 AM
@BenBrocka not going to lie, I don't think I've ever written a sorting algorithm myself without copying it from somewhere :-)
 
 
2 hours later…
2:00 AM
@enderland LOL that is the great thing about the internet you no longer have to figure these things out. I learned to program in the 80's and unless it was in a computer magazine if you wanted/needed to do it you had to figure out how to implement it yourself
 
 
9 hours later…
10:59 AM
@Chad well i dont have a comp sci background, so I never really had an algorithms class or other such place to learn
 
11:37 AM
the first time i needed to sort a list i didnt even know there were existing algorithms, turns out i implemented a bubble sort by sheer luck
 
11:58 AM
Im curious to know, when a question is closed, why does it list the closers? It doesnt add anything to the scenario, there is no need to know who closed it is there?

Surely it leads to the potential of someone being annoyed that the same person voted to close most of their questions and 'vows vengence' leading to destructive behaviour.
 
12:28 PM
@RhysW That certainly happens in some cases, but I guess it's for accountability and such. It is a "moderating" action, which the system pretty much always logs and keeps available for auditing
 
1:17 PM
@BenBrocka I thought it was so we can feel popular about having our names appear in more locations online!?!?!?!?
 
@enderland No, that's why you're supposed to litter the site with useless "+1 good post" comments
 
@BenBrocka +1
 
Wonder how many of those I've deleted from WP, certainly a lot
 
does the "helpful flag" count include comments?
 
Yeah, check your flagging summary and you'll see that comment flags are stored separately
 
1:24 PM
wow only 11 comments flagged? pfffft
 
1:35 PM
-1
A: Can a competing peer be your supervisor

AJ HendersonThis is part of what drove me from my last job. I had been working as a peer with someone doing the exact same job, we were geographically diverse and when some changes occurred, they decided to put the guy in home office at the top of a new team and I got effectively demoted and cut off from th...

My job sucks like your job did
 
@Chad that's too bad, you should quit
 
@enderland Damn and I just slapped his wife
I always choose the wrong option
 
i need an answer to downvote, my rep ends in a 1 and i dont like that
 
happy palindrome pi day
 
1:50 PM
gah, were always getting bad answers, why is it now that i cant find any i havent already DV'ed
 
@RhysW Did you already down vote the one i posteD?
 
@Chad yup, thats whats taken me down to a 1 number,
14
Q: Boss does not answer questions

CeleritasI am still in training and sometimes my boss does not answer my questions. Other times he tells me to think about it. For example I was setting up a new machine and asked him to confirm I should install a certain program and he said to think about it and I should not be asking such questions. (Ok...

The comments on this question
are
interesting...
YES! found one to downvote, thatll teach him for telling people to quit for a new job
0
A: Boss does not answer questions

Jon HarbourThere is a lot of fear in the workplace, among both employees and managers or owners, stresses that they do not channel appropriately. Some people are quite simply incompetent and have gotten good at faking their way through the job, so anyone who is a straight shooter is a threat to their well-c...

 
Should we just delete that question and make it goaway before it gets reopened
 
@Chad the top answer IS good imo
 
Its a shame because if it had been asked well it would have been a good question
the answeres are on the right track, and the problem is relevant, but the way its asked is poor
 
2:00 PM
@RhysW someone posted on our meta once that a good indication for a good core question is a solid/comprehensive answer (even if hte question is bad)
 
oh i agree, its just unfortunate that the question was asked by the person who asked it
hmm i think jmacs answer to that is actually too localised to just the op
"You are 22 according to your profile..."
"You are young... "

If the bits that make it to local to just the OP are removed it will be more relevant to more people
bring age into this adds nothing to the answer
0
Q: A VERY weird reference check process: open to the suggestons

usmba6 weeks ago, I accepted a job offer for a senior position based overseas and signed and returned the offer letter. The onboard date was determined to be 2 weeks from now. Everything seems good. I am in the process of making international relocation, selling my house, furniture, cars... Yesterday...

god damn list question
@Chad i know you hate list questions, go nuts
 
@RhysW i wish the FAQ was updated so I could just link directly to the FAQ instead of paraphrasing it
 
@enderland sometimes i wonder if people even bother reading it or if they just ask stuff because they see workplace as the title
 
@RhysW most people don't read FAQs. how many of them have YOU read for sites you frequent? lol
 
Most of them...thats the point of having them? :L
@enderland yeah but then they git all hissy when we tell them its off topic, its like, well you could have read the FAQ and found that out yourself XD
@enderland can you spare a close vote?

http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/10220/religious-faith-of-non-clerical-staff-in-religious-organisations-uk
 
2:14 PM
@RhysW I like that question, perhaps it needs working
 
Really? I dont see it as being close to relevant for the site
"I would like to know how the law regards these non-clerical positions"

We dont do legal stuff
Plus its a list question "Firstly" "Secondly"
 
eh, I guess this is legal
 
Hidden behind religion XD
law, religion and the workplace, its just asking for trouble really
 
2:56 PM
questions like this make me wish for tag , with detailed and clear tag wiki...
1
Q: Can a competing peer be your supervisor

mehtaI am placed in a new software project along with another colleague who happens to be one level up in hierarchy. We both are on the project for around a month now. As both of us are new to the project we both have to create visibility and make a place for ourselves in the project. So this makes it...

clearly the case when, as they discussed at MSO...
79
Q: Is "Don't do it" a valid answer?

butterchickenIf someone asks how to do XYZ, and you think doing XYZ at all is a Bad Ideaâ„¢, is it valid to post an answer saying so? You aren't answering the question, but instead, arguing the question's validity. You could do this in a comment, but I don't think comments carry enough weight on occasion. For...

 
An answer that's just "Don't do that!" is useless, unless the poster is asking whether it's OK, in which case it's just mostly useless. It should always be accompanied by reasons. An answer that doesn't respect the poster is also pretty much useless (just downvote the question and have done if you feel that way). However, an answer that tells the poster how to do something stupid, just to strictly answer the poster's question, is worse than useless.
 
47
A: Should I flag answers consisting only of "No" or "Yes"?

Ben BrockaYes. ...that wasn't very helpful in answering your question, was it? If someone asks a yes/no question there's always an implied "and why" even if they don't ask for it. Even if the original asker only wanted one data point with no reasoning behind it, showing the reason for a yes/no answer ma...

@enderland actually [about] now drives the "Q&A" idea home better than the FAQ IMO
3
And [about] auto links like FAQ
...though apparently not in chat
 
@BenBrocka where is [about] ? for stackoverflow? or for workplace?
 
BTW the blurb at the top starting with "the workplace" and the checkmark/red X list of dos/don'ts are mod-editable liek the first part of the FAQ
It's on all sites but I figured you meant here
 
that's not linked in the top menu bar though the way ti is on stackoverflow
 
3:10 PM
@enderland It hides when you have a certain amount of rep, like 2k or something
Newbies and anonymous users see it always, and it's in the footer for everyone
 
ahhh. makes sense (kinda?)
 
It made more sense when /about was completely and utterly useless but I can kinda see the reason behind it
 
@BenBrocka it hides earlier than 2k, i have 1.5k and cant see it at the top anymore
 
It's some weird cut off
maybe close votes?
 
well beta sites have different rep factors
 
3:22 PM
Yeah it's tied to some priviledge I think
 
@enderland Its not the answers i have a problem with though most of them are not good
@gnat The OP does not have a choice. It would appear that there management saw the power struggle and decided to put the other guy in charge to solve that issue. So choosing not to do it is not really an option for the OP unless he wants to quit. And I HATE Quit your job answers unless there is a really good reason. I dont like that my coworker was promoted above me is not a really good reason
 
3:38 PM
@Chad what is this in response to?
 
@enderland the one about the boss not answering questions
 
@RhysW Ah, gotcha
 
ARG damn you windows
 
-3
Q: A VERY weird reference check process: open to the suggestons

usmba6 weeks ago, I accepted a job offer for a senior position based overseas and signed and returned the offer letter. The onboard date was determined to be 2 weeks from now. Everything seems good. I am in the process of making international relocation, selling my house, furniture, cars... Yesterday...

what can we do to salvage that question
@enderland should we delete boss not answering questions
 
@Chad the op needs to ask an actual question, at the moment, he is just telling us a story
 
3:48 PM
ugh. having read through lots of comments and stuff more closely that is a train wreck
 
The question is how should the OP deal with this.
 
@Chad thats going to be a very opinionated list of answers
 
part of me wants to answer it with an answer basically saying, "look, if you have this much trouble asking a clear and concise question on a Q/A forum, it's likely your requests to your boss are equally frustrating and confusing"
 
@RhysW Right I know that question is bad.
But can we modify it so it is on topic with out input from the OP
@enderland The problem is his boss is answering his questions he just doesnt like the answers
 
i would have thought such a large re-working would detract it wildly from the original post
and on the one about the boss questions saying, "what do you think" and "Go look it up" are some of the best answers you can get when learning, makes you have to actually think about things and apply yourself, rather than being a mindless drone
 
3:53 PM
@RhysW exactly it is not that he is not answering the questions his answers are not what the OP was looking for. I have had bosses that would not make decisions, and ones that would not help out which are different problems than the op has and why I suspect that the question was made popular
 
@Chad precisely, hes getting answers, he just doesnt like them, though looking at that guys other questions, he seems to dislike a lot of people
 
I hate that the question was down voted so bad too. I know it is not a great question right now but it is not a bad question it just needs fixed
 
@Chad which one? we were discussing two questions simultaneously
 
-3
Q: A VERY weird reference check process: open to the suggestons

usmba6 weeks ago, I accepted a job offer for a senior position based overseas and signed and returned the offer letter. The onboard date was determined to be 2 weeks from now. Everything seems good. I am in the process of making international relocation, selling my house, furniture, cars... Yesterday...

 
@Chad right ok gotcha, on the same page now
 
3:57 PM
I do not upvote just to offset downvotes.. but if I did I would that one.
 
@Chad change "where" to "were" in your comment there. makes no sense with "where" :-)
 
There is an important question in there I think
 
@Chad the only one i could see would be along the lines of legal implications of them "screwing him over" by adding extra conditions to his employment after saying he had the job
 
We could change it to what can/should i do to protect myself
That is nicely focused
 
@Chad choice for OP is to drop false assumption of being a peer (that's a don't do it part) and learn to manage up instead (that's a do this instead part) pretty much like as is was presented at MSO discussion
 
3:59 PM
which would again be legal stuff
 
Maybe but it is not asking for a legal opinion
 
but the answers would all be legal
what else could they be
 
that's why I wish we had that tag, it's a pretty generic WP kind stuff
 
@gnat We should ask for answer tags :p
cause that is what that would be
 
@gnat manage-up? what would that be for
 
4:02 PM
@gnat I actually agree, we get questions on this topic (or at least related) quite a bit
 
@RhysW We can help with some legal stuff. IE Tell him to get a contract
@enderland I agree but this question boils down to "Tell me that the company is being stupid for expecting me to work with this jerk that sucks compared to me"
 
@Chad "in there I think" is the problem with it, it's not asked well
 
@Chad i dont think that answers the question though
 
@Chad well right. I'm saying more in general, not necessarily for this specific question
 
@enderland i still dont see what that tag would be used for
 
4:05 PM
@RhysW That is because it is not a real question it is a rant trolling for "you are right you are being screwed answers"
 
oops @chad i meant to reply to your reply to me
@Chad this one
 
@RhysW I was not saying it did. I was just using that for an example
 
@Chad i still dont see a rescuable question in there, though if you can find one ill be more than happy to cooperate
 
We should never give legal opinion... IE You have grounds to sue. You have a defense against suit...
advising someone which legal steps to persue is not the same as giving legal opinion
 
I disagree, i think the only legal advice we should ever give is "you need to contact a lawyer specialised in this field"
Its someones entire life were talking about, its not worth destroying it because we think we know the best legal steps to pursue
 
4:11 PM
@RhysW each piece of "Career advice" which happens here has a lot of simlar potential
 
@enderland but legal stuff especially
getting fired isnt always over, getting taken to court, totally destroyed and with money out of your pocket and getting fired, is much worse
 
-3
Q: How can I protect myself when accepting a position that will force me to move abroad

usmba6 weeks ago, I accepted a job offer for a senior position based overseas and signed and returned the offer letter. The onboard date was determined to be 2 weeks from now. Everything seems good. I am in the process of making international relocation, selling my house, furniture, cars... Yesterday...

How does that work?
 
its too easy for someone to misinterpret legal advice, i dont think we should be giving it
 
omg, this code has 3 loops, 2 case statement, and a handful of if statements all together
 
@RhysW No you should refer to a lawyer if you think they need legal advice
 
4:14 PM
"except that there involved an serious integrity issue." it would be helpful if the OP clarified this
@enderland bring out the refactoring hammer?
@Chad i will agree to disagree, but i wont be answering any legal related questions
 
Someone on DBA said they had a programmer trying to run a cursor in a stored procedure which would run each row of a 500k row table through 8 additional sprocs each
 
@RhysW nah I don't have to maintain it. code in something I got which I wanted to look at since I'm a coder and looking at others code is awesome
 
He was confused as to why it wouldn't run in a timely manner (or...ever)
 
@enderland fair enough
 
I voted to delete the boss question
 
@gnat neither of those definitions are suitable tags for a question
 
@RhysW where is that ?
 
its the sort of thing you would expect if answers could have tags
 
@RhysW these are not definitions, explanations
 
4:16 PM
@gnat but if the op knows he needs to manage up, then he doesnt have a question, becuase he knows the answer, i dont see it working as a tag to be honest
 
@RhysW i see. That makes sense
 
if a dismissal involved an serious integrity issue.
yeah the manage up would be a tag for the answer not the questions
 
@chad did you find where that quote came from?
right ok that makes more sense
 
I just reworded it. That is what I assume he meant. That is pretty common
 
i still dont think it works as a question so i wont upvote, but its good enough that i will remove my downvote
 
4:18 PM
I suspect that the OP is not a native english speaker
but he did write the question fairly well
 
@RhysW that's not quite a compelling logic. It's reasonable to assume OP knows nothing at all (including but not limited to) how to tag their question properly - otherwise, they wouldn't be asking to start with...
That makes it perfectly OK for answerers to pick and assign appropriate tags. did you ever do that as a reader / answerer? i did multiple times
OP very often isn't aware of appropriate tag
 
would you vote to reopen?
 
@gnat if you can come up with a suitable definition for how that tag could be used for questions i will agree, but as it stands i dont see it working.
 
@gnat I don't retag nearly enough questions, tbvh
 
I do not think I will answer either but I hope we have some people with experience in moving abroad that will have some good answers
 
4:20 PM
@RhysW if I could, there would be already a tag and wiki. I just don't have time for that yet (maybe later0
good tag wiki takes time
and quite some effort
 
@gnat im not talking massively comprehensive guide, im tlking like the little tag line that shows when you hover,
or evan an example of its usage, but i understand about the time thiing
@Chad
i dont see why
Plus, according to local labor law, the first 6-month employment with new employer is probationary. In other words, either employer or employee could terminate the employment without any reason or cost, e.g. severance package, within the first 6 months of employment.
this bit is relevant to the question
thats true regardless of the reference check or not,
and
I will certainly opt in the reference check process
seems to suggest he doesnt even Have to do it
 
@gnat but those all seem relevant to the questions
 
4:39 PM
@RhysW yup that's the hard part. Guys posting questions often don't even know these tags exist; the wording should be such that after someone adds the tag, OP would say oh yeah that's it
in that sense, good tag is often half of an answer
or a protection of mis-answers. 99% java-me tagged questions at SO benefit quite a lot when java tag is removed from these, go figure
 
Why does downvoting a question not have an impact on your rep, but down voting an answer takea away 1
 
oh and, in our case, excerpt/wiki wording would also better be compliant with / complementary to / cross-referenced with whatever is there for "manage-down" aka your good old :) "proactive (aware? productive?) workplace relationship (relationship?) with someone at higher position; with your direct or indirect superior / manager"
 
i
i didnt get a word of that
 
5:36 PM
2
Q: How can I protect myself when accepting a position that will force me to move abroad

usmba6 weeks ago, I accepted a job offer for a senior position based overseas and signed and returned the offer letter. The onboard date was determined to be 2 weeks from now. Everything seems good. I am in the process of making international relocation, selling my house, furniture, cars... Yesterday...

Need one more reopen vote
 
0
Q: What's the protocol on sharing hiring bonuses?

bakoyaroI recently referred a colleague from university to my workplace, after he was hired and completed a probationary period, I received a cash payment for referring him. I want to give him some of this payment for making it so far, is this out of line?

Mods or anybody... is this a good candidate for migration?
Programmers mod here
 
@maple_shaft That's a bad question
 
Not constructive and likely based on opinion
i agree
but
 
what's the point in migrating a question which will just get closed?
 
other mods have surprised me with what they were able to salvage before
@enderland I wouldn't. Thats why I am asking. It was flagged multiple times that it should be migrated to Workplace
 
5:50 PM
@maple_shaft That is not really about the workplace anyway
Could work in Ettiquette which i think is close to beta
 
@Chad Thanks guys... two people denying it is good enough for me
 
well I think it's a good question (if I understand the motivation right) but honestly it's going to require some work
 
@enderland If you change your mind, then try to edit it on Programmers if you can and let me know if you would like me to Migrate
@BenBrocka told me that his opinion is highly in line with the regulars in the Water Cooler so he told me to just drop in here and get your opinions before migrating stuff. He clearly has a lot of respect for you
it is more trust than I have with the people on the Whiteboard I will tell you
 
I guess I want to avoid a "oh hey q is about workplace issues might as well throw it to them" even if it's a bad question
@maple_shaft I edited the Q
it's still borderline since it's a poll, but I think even so this is a good Q to have as its a relatively common issue
there are also fairly standard responses to it, which I think are universal (though perhaps only specific to USA)
 
6:20 PM
@maple_shaft a more relevant question would be... why would someone ever think to post that on a site called "programmers" :\
 
I agree w / others that the impetus for asking is...nice, but it's not really workplacey or all that constructive.
 
@jcmeloni I think this is a common question though for workplace environments
 
@enderland It is also a common question for swap meets, and farms, and poker tourneys...
It is really an etiquette question... and not a professionalism question
 
@Chad you really think so? I would consider a question about referral bonuses to be completely on topic for a workplace environment
 
@enderland It is not able referral bonuses though it is about what is the customary amount to give someone(an ettiquette question)
 
6:30 PM
@Chad except it's directly because of referral bonuses...
 
@enderland You could get a referral bonus for many things. Referring you to DirectTV, to a Poker Tourney, to a Malware site...
this one just happens to be for a job
 
eh. I guess we're going to disagree here. Maybe part of the reason I think htis is workplace applicable is I've wondered the exact same thing regarding referral bonuses..
 
which if anyone wants to go to direct tv let me know... we can both save 10$ a month for a year
@enderland you got them a job. they are being rewarded every payday
 
@Chad oh, I personally know that
but it really isn't obvious until you REALLY think through the whole workplace elements of the situation
 
6:54 PM
@Chad lol
0
Q: Is sharing a referral bonus OK?

bakoyaroI recently referred a colleague from university to my workplace, after he was hired and completed a probationary period, I received a cash payment for referring him to our company. I would like to give some of this money to my colleague, as a way to tell him "nice job", but I have concerns on wh...

 
7:28 PM
<rant> Insert line of obnoxious and filthy words here </rant>
 
Jim
7:54 PM
Deleted
Wasn't posted here until after maple_shaft said it would not be migrated
 
@Jim I think there is some disagreeing on whether it should be migrated too :-)
originally the q was bad. now it's mediocre (after I edited it)
 
Jim
I saw you edited the programmers post
if there is support for migrating it, that's cool, but I'd rather it get migrated here than cross-posted (especially after a mod says "no" to migrating it)
 
@Jim that was also pre-edit. though again, I won't be too broken up if it doesn't get migrated
 
Jim
If you (or the OP, or anyone) wants to make enough of an edit to warrant migration over stagnation, I won't close/delete it once it's here
 
well @Chad and I disagree on whether or not the question really can be salvaged. I think my edit made it an "ok" question for here
 
8:08 PM
It is at best a list question now. Give me a list of options for how I can thank the person I referred.
 
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here :-)
 
I could just be in a cranky mood too.
I still do not get why he thinks that it might not be ok unless he was the person referred and wants his cut
 
Jim
@enderland How would you answer it? Would you answer it?
 
I would prefer a question of should I expect a cut of my a bonus my friend got for referring me
 
Jim
Hm, seems a bit more solid a question
Just gonna drop this here
 
8:14 PM
@Jim I think I would say that buying someone dinner is pretty sufficient (though this isn't even needed) and that you could get into serious trouble with your legal/HR department in some cases
I know we've got internal policies on gifts/etc
obv. this might not necessarily be internal, but... wouldn't really want to gamble on that if that was the way I went
 
8:49 PM
@enderland how would you get in legal trouble for buying dinner for your friend?
 
@Chad err, the "that" was with respect to giving $$$ away as a "payment" for the bonus. guess that "and" was in a poor place :P
 
@enderland I am not sure how you would get in trouble for that unless it is over the $600 reportable structure. It is your money.
 
@Chad shrug
larger companies have decently serious guidlines on some of that stuff some of the time
 
you could get in trouble if you try to deduct the shared amount from your taxes :p
 
:P
 
8:53 PM
@enderland unless the person is your boss/subordinate or in a position to give a member of your family a contract or something similar but that is kind of an edge case
 

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