morning

How come there are so many downvotes on the moderation questionnaire answers?

unsure

the q itself has 3 downvotes too

@avazula people are still angry. Not everyone will come right out with it, as I do. So, they are down-voting

I expect candidates will get a lot of heat

in the actual election. I'm prepared to be called names and made to justify myself a lot, which is inevitable in the current climate

@Magisch if you need any pointers on being insulted, I have a good deal of experience in that department

eh, I can handle it

at least, if I can't handle it I wouldn't make a good mod anyways so I'll take my chances

@Magisch just don't say anything that isn't woke

:D

@Mag running is a tough process. Being a mod is a tough process. I hope you like it and I also hope you're aware your SE activity will drastically change because of your new missions and that may be a surprising change.

I ran a couple times. You couldn't pay me enough to do it now.

@avazula lets not discuss that before it actually happens

I'll decide how to handle any of it IFF (pretty big if) I actually get elected

I don't understand. I wish I had known before running for mod that it's very different from what's expected by most.

eh

I think I have a pretty reasonable view of what it'd be like

okay then.

but I'm not really expecting it to happen at this point

depending on who else runs I might not even actually run. there are many others who would be good for the job

@avazula IPS is rather unique, too. Afaik.

@Magisch everything @Mister mentioned on the mod questionnaire applies to any site (and therefore, ours).

i ran before for twp, so I spent some time pondering these questions last time

I just dont want to get too excited or think about it too much when it might not happen

also, the role of what the new mods will need to do has shifted somewhat in the interim, due to the recent events, in my opinion.

Morning @MisterPositive!

Hello all

I will say that I will be keeping a very close eye on this election. I won't allow giant rants and negative comments/questions to run wild. We as a community have to either move on from the events of last year. Rehashing won't help.

you'll have your hands full then

yup

I fully expect some people to run on a passive resistance platform

e.g running while declaring they'll be inactive to protest SE's actions

it will not happen. if you cannot be nice and civil you won't be allowed to play.

if you don't wanna run, that is understandable. However, you will not be allowed to bash or trash those that do.

Period.

I think it's impossible to hold this election without discussing past events

my question is an attempt to put this into a framing where the candidates have an opportunity to talk about the positive aspects of the site that make them want to keep going

basically a way to channel the inevitable questions along that line into something that can be positive

every candidate is going to be confronted with a "why do you want to, after all they've done" type of question one way or another. If it comes from a voter in a comment, in a chatroom or in the questionnaire is immaterial to that. But in the questionnaire we have an opportunity to frame it in a less fatalistic way (see also the discussions of yesterday + monday on the topic) that allows thought and preparation.

@MisterPositive no worries from this end. Last time I tried to participate (last election) I got banned from the chat. So, not going to even bother to participate at all. Gave it a shot with one question, it got down-voted, done with this.

Wake me up when it's over

@Magisch that's not assuming good intentions....

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica No, I am assuming good intentions

it's a highly emotionally charged situation. Allowing for a controlled outlet is better then not

@Magisch Because I choose to move forward and contribute in a positive way.

re hashing the past if futile IMO

which is what the question forces.

I disagree

@Magisch Why would someone be angry over/at someone who chooses to run.

I got death threats off site for pleading to be less angry on MSE

then there's this: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/18269/… <- Got downvoted to -37, and that was in december before the last round of anger. I know this isn't TWP but the TWP election will draw network-wide attention because it is the first and because monica was a mod here

I agree that we need to move forward

I don't agree suppressing the conversation is the way to do it

centralizing it around a prepared statement by the candidates and pruning the worst excesses seems like a better way to go to me.

@MisterPositive It was some rando on discord. I changed my name on here temporarily to make my discord harder to find by association late last year, but changed it back. Occasionally it still happens. Thankfully I'm in a position where I can block & ignore

Well, as I said, I don't agree, but won't do anything based on just my own assumptions. I have inquired for other opinions.

okay

sorry for dragging you into the discussion here :)

its ok

discussion is good

and I may be in the minority opinion wise. :-)

minority viewpoints are good

Minority reports are better

:p

I don't regret voting for you back when, you've done a fine job of managing a poor hand you were dealt here in the last couple of months

@Magisch Who are you referring too?

you I think

:p

Most folks I have spoken with agree that the Q has good intentions. I removed the comments discussing it.

I mean you

I also voted for avazula, and I'm also not regretting that vote, but that's a coincidence

LOL

We (IPS mods) were truly shook by the events but it was less visible on our stack.

So it wouldn't have made any sense for Mag to applause my management techniques of the situation (except in chat) :p

;)

@Magisch I agree with you, ignoring anger causes it to build. The quickest way to generate a shyte storm is to be dismissive of anger

@MisterPositive The Monica situation may have been settled, but it was not resolved. There is still a white-hot rage over it. The fact that it can no longer be expressed on SE doesn't mean it's not ongoing

@Magisch I don't recall ever getting death-threats online. I mostly get "you should kill yourself". To that, I typically reply "If I had to live your life, I'd consider it". I don't take keyboard warriors very seriously.

I got plenty

some people like to use them as super insults

alas, the block or ignore button is never far away

people who actually wish you harm don't announce it or have more credibility then "random guy who found my pseudonym on a chat platform"

@Magisch I rarely use either, as I like to know what the idiots are up to

@Magisch SMART people don't announce their moves or brag about their actions, stupid people do. Ask any police officer

The police caught the man who murdered a friend of mine because the idiot bragged abut it.

Do you ever have those days where everything on the system seems to just not work and hate, specifically, you?

@Bee I call that "yesterday". Lost all of my work TWICE

Ouch!

@Richard how did you manage that?

I learnt the hard way to regularly save my code on a sublimetext offline regularly incase my changes get accidentally overwritten or reverted

@Bee I am very VERY fast, and have an eidetic memory, so once I figure it out, it's no big thing. We're moving platforms, so things get disrupted constantly.

It was more of a PITA to re-do everything than any great loss

It took me about four hours to write, but only an hour to re-write twice.

ah well that makes sense I get what you mean I just tend to write it and edit it externally

anyone ever have an issue with Windows 10 where Visual Studio Installer doesn't show up in search? I can be looking at it in my menu and typing in search yields nothing but a suggestion for web searches.

@ChrisE I've had that happen when looking for Malware Bytes. Win10 is notorious for not finding things, and suggesting the web

@ChrisE I've seen it sporadically go "dumb" when it comes to finding local things - sometimes even actual windows components e.g. device manager.

That's the current state. told it to rebuild the search indexing but it didn't help.

@ChrisE have you tried bouncing SearchUI.exe ?

@motosubatsu restarted the machine

@ChrisE which would do that (and more)

I assume you've tried the troubleshooter?

it's a bit sledgehammer-ish but there's always the option of disabling bing and cortana integration in the registry and forcing local-only search that way?

@motosubatsu That may be worth a look, thanks

Remember everyone, mod election is coming up, so a quick public service announcement....

frown

#trollalert

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica Very Nice LOL

@JoeStrazzere The 600 character limit is annoying because it means I have to be briefer than I'd like to be, but I'd rather not move the discussion to a chatroom since it pushes it "out of sight" and I feel you raise a fair point in whether this is a topic that should impact the election.

Of course you don't need to say if you'd prefer not to or explain either way (I know you've commented on this in past elections already), but I admit I'm curious: would you consider running? I think it's fair to say that plenty of people would nominate you if that's how it worked but of course it's not. :)

@Lilienthal I have to say after reading Joe's comments that I have slid towards undecided now. I will think on this tonight and provide more thought. The question does no doubt start with a negative lead in.

Joe would make a fine moderator.

is the question inclusion based on votes or do mods ultimately decide

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica I agree and hope he runs. I hope anyone seriously interested runs and decides.

@Magisch I honestly don't know yet. :-\

@Magisch You do see the point Joe made though, right?

cause the lead question makes it sound likes its a voter's decision with small sanity rails on the CM team's side

I see it

I still don't know if I agree

@Magisch at the moment I am not sure either. I get the point of bringing the elephant in the room to light though too

I just dont think the topic can be avoided

I think if we go with not mentioning it in any official capacity we'll have it cropping up in every facet of every conversation in the election

@Magisch I agree. "Nothing to see here" isn't going to end well

I may be biased because I'm planning to run and write a long answer to that question if it gets picked

Yep, people will sneak it in

And too many people are just one indignation away from walking away for good.

I haven't decided myself.

We just lost Hosch, and I've probably lost a few hundred rep points from "user was removed" in the past few months.

look @MisterPositive and @Lilienthal and @JoeStrazzere . If all three of you think having the Q is a bad idea I will delete it myself

which I'm able to do

@Magisch I am currently undecided. I wish there was a less "negative" way to make the statement your attempting to make. I see both sides of this and was the first to object to the lead in. The QUESTION is fine, its the lead in that I have difficulty just accepting.

Asking Why one wants to be a moderator is a perfectly reasonable question

my thoughts on it are akin to lilienthal's

everyone is going to have an opinion on this

there is no way you're running for mod unaware of these events

and everyone's going to get questioned on their opinion on this

What does their opinion on the event matter? I didn't like it, but I ultimately chose to be here, and Monica made here choice. ( serious question, no meaning to be sarcastic )

moderators are taking a very different role in the future of the network then they have

the moderator council and the way stack exchange has been acting have made it abundantly clear that moderators aren't just users with some more tools anymore, they're our elected representatives to the company, they're (ideally) protecting us from their worst excesses, and they argue on our behalf to those that will only listen to them

in light of this, both because I plan to run myself and because I will vote in it, I want a view into what candidates think about the events. I want to select someone who will represent me and what I like about this community to the powers that be

@Magisch Say THAT. That is relevant and future facing....

I want someone who wants to serve because they like this place and what it is, not because they want a mandate to correct us all. I want someone who will be on my (and the other user's) side when push comes to another shove (and it will)

I honestly think we're not beyond hope here, but I think we need some serious representation. it is clear that SE is prepared to listen to moderators more then to users, so while the majority of the job is guiding and helping out on the site, it's not my primary selection criteria (there are many who can do that job)

if you have an idea how to work that sentiment into the lede then go ahead @MisterPositive

@Magisch Say this too!

I will say I won't use my influence to try to force the question out as it is now.

@MisterPositive first idea for an edit on the question: gist.github.com/magisch/2821f79415d3ab2179cb0f97e05dee9f

Although I'm unsure if it'd even be ethical for me to update it now

people voted on the current version, and it's not my own choice what gets asked and what not

This version is much better in my mind.

@Magisch that is a good point. I can do the edit if you would like, and take any heat for it.

can you inquire with the community team if updating the question just like that is allowable

or if I need to post a new answer

@Magisch Will do

if it is deemed allowable, feel free to replace my question with the new version. If not, feel free to post the new question as competing answer, or I can do it when I wake up tomorrow (In case the inquiry takes time)

this is one of the responses If you think the edit preserves all the original intent, then I don't see a problem with editing.

so in this case I think it does

so edit away

the question is has the same intent, only way better worded in my opinion

i made the edit

and left a note

well done sir.

I appreciate that you take the time to talk these things out

@Magisch This was super important, to me.

Don't worry, the subject won't come up....

my question still directly asks about it

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica what are you talking about? The question directly asks about it without throwing a grenade into the readers face first.

Probably one of the most impressive edits I have seen.

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica hmmmmm

@MisterPositive It's best to address the topic straight on. Part of the continued anger is the fact that many people on SE feel that the company has side-stepped things so much. The blog post where an SE employee posted that the employees didn't want to post to Meta for fear of feeling attacked increased this. and...

IMO this made the job of the volunteer mods that much harder.

This is what I mean when I say that I don't envy you your position.

Now, despite my feelings, I will do nothing to hinder the moderation of this, or any other SE site.

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica To be perfectly blunt, if a candidate is not fully aware of these events they probably aren't a good candidate anyway.

@MisterPositive On that, I agree...

I'll just say this I won't vote for anyone who does not address the situation in a way I find sensible

nor will I endorse anyone who doesn't

@Magisch Fair.

your question should be answered or the potential candidate isn't really engaged in our community.

@Magisch Agreed. But I'm fairly certain that anyone who doesn't will receive an even chillier reception than I did.

As it is I will see to it to the best of my ability that your question is part of the process @Magisch

I so hat the term "community"

this is to me too important. There are many who can do janitorial work of handling flags and giving people who go nuts a timeout. The secondary role of mods to represent us and our interests is where my choice will be made

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica Why? We at TWP are a community....

@MisterPositive too often the term is a divisive one, not a uniting one

just a personal pet peve from a bitter old man

I'm still planning to run myself, and I also want others to judge me by that standard

@Magisch I think pretty much anyone who runs at this point will be elected, as I don't think we will get more than three people to run

that would be unfortunate

I want as many good people to run as possible. If I get elected, I want it to be because people trust me, not because I was the only non awful option

@Magisch LOL

Well said

I am hoping for 4 actually

minimum

@Magisch If I were to run, then, by default, that would eliminate the problem.

as I WOULD be the awful option

Well I know of at least 4 who will most likely run

most likely = greater than 80% likely.

I certainly hope whoever runs gets more respect than Masked Man or I did

Masked Man was very well respected and actually won the election over myself.....

@MisterPositive oh, he and I had a few private discussions over that, and he'd beg to differ.

interesting.....

I hope he is doing well

I miss him

he reminded me a lot of Ender

@MisterPositive well, he can come back in another 4 years or so.

He is doing well though, just busy.

One thing that annoyed him was the eurocentric answers to questions for India which did not apply.

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica Good to here...

I am very familiar with the culture, so we shared a few inside jokes.

I bet he could appeal that suspension....

if he so desired.

@MisterPositive Yeah, but a suspension for that long is a fairly egregious insult and slap to one's pride. I know I wouldn't, as my reasoning would be that if you're going to act that way, there's no reasoning with you anyway, and I'm not going to beg for the opportunity to contribute, as an unpaid consultant.

I don't know enough about the situation to comment.

me neither

@MisterPositive no worries. I'm not looking to win an argument, just stating my own personal opinion and viewpoints

Well, part of what irritated him was that he was being slammed, and couldn't comment in here to defend himself.

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica I didn't take it that way. I just have no context there....

@MisterPositive apologies, I don't mean to offend.

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica and I probably don't wanna know. I am not offended ;-}

:D

LOL - I think you know be better than that.

@MisterPositive well, you're doing a good job regardless, and a difficult one. Much respect to you sir.

I just know that when I'm irritated or tired, I get "foot in mouth" disease and don't realize when I'm being offensive, so I figured I'd apologize, just in case :D

@RichardSaysReinstateMonica I just step away from the keyboard.....

I also only have three accounts now. TWP, SO, and META

so I have narrowed my focus considerably.

@MisterPositive yeah, I still have worldbuilding. I deleted a certain stack where I didn't get along.

Real Life(tm) is much harder for me though.... I'm clueless for the most part.

I had many stacks that I visited over the years but did not contribute.

I was extremely lucky to find a VERY patient SO

Now I only have accounts where I contribute.

I got 150 some accounts mostly for spam flagging

i have autoflags enabled so the smoke detector occasionally uses me to spam flag

Nice @Magisch

I'm probably up to 12k flags network wide now

@Magisch ugh! You are a glutton for punishment

two thirds of those my own, a third or so from the bot

@Magisch but I've got nearly 1000 just for this site

I'm not kidding when I say I love these communities

TWP most of all, but I like a lot of them

I like ours.

@Magisch just curious, do you have "face blindness"? I do

my scope as I said has been limited.

Gotta roll, cya!

@MisterPositive take care sir

you as well!

@Lilienthal I have been thinking about the moderator position. Frankly, I'm not sure I'm a good fit. I am very opinionated. There are things that happen here at The Workplace that really bother me, and I'd be tempted to shut them down quickly. Having "super moderator powers" with that feeling is probably not a good combination.

Besides, I'm retired now and don't get to spend as much time in front of a keyboard as I used to. That's why I was looking for guidance as to what a moderator does, and how much time it would take. Being retired takes up a lot of time! ;-)

If Magisch runs, you all don't need me anyway. He'll make a fine Moderator. I'd vote for him.

@JoeStrazzere your endorsement means a lot to me

thank you

unless something substantial changes, I'm indeed planning to run

@Magisch Excellent! Glad to hear it.