SE Diplomacy

Air

00:23

@Emrakul Wait, an entire engine, now? athuth

I've been wanting a public project to work on, but my only really relevant expertise is Python

Doorknob

@Air uhh what's an athuth?

Air

@Doorknob A github username.

Doorknob

Oh, haha, okay.

Air

I've sort of got the vague idea that the move from Python to Go is not bad but I don't know where I read it or if I'm making it up completely

Doorknob

So... what happens to Italy now? (In our game)

Air

00:29

I have been wondering the same. Has anyone tried re-inviting @Undo to "sub" for himself?

We could also take someone from the game II waiting list, if that doesn't work

Doorknob

The first few moves seem to be one of the most fun aspects of the game though.

Air

Ugh, I'm not a huge fan of 1901

There's way too much to do at once when you don't yet know what anyone is doing

Doorknob

That's why it's fun for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyway, where's the "invite" button? I don't see one.

Air

I guess it would be easier if I were playing a nation with limited openings instead of the nation with possibly the greatest number of viable openings :P

@Doorknob Oh, I was looking at "substitute" which it turns out lets you ask someone to sub for you

Maybe there's no way to... Undo... this

3

okay I have to run to a preschool meeting back later

Doorknob

that was so terrible it's worthy of a star

Alright, I have to go eat also. See you later!

user61230

00:37

diplom.org/Zine/S2009M/Kruijswijk/DipMath_Chp1.htm

user61230

important read for project

user61230

@Air Adding you in a sec... (added!)

user61230

Also, @Undo can try to join again, but the game may lock him out.

user61230

So, what language do we actually want to use? Should we do four-person STV? :P

user61230

01:04

Rust, C++, Python, Go, C# are on the list. Other options to add?

Doorknob

I've never tried D, but I hear it's good as well.

(And it seems like it would fit this project)

michaelpri

Maybe Ruby? I don't even know if it would work for this project

Doorknob

Nah, probably not

(even though Ruby is awesome)

user61230

01:46

Yeah, I'm not sure how well Ruby is suited for this

user61230

Haskell's an option, too, but I'm not super thrilled about it

Doorknob

Functional programming confuses me :P

(probably because I've never really bothered to go really in-depth with Haskell et. al)

user61230

It's fun, but on the surface level it seems a lot less... useful/generally applicable?

user61230

Want to actually use it for something, but I'm struggling to find a use case for it :/

user61230

02:01

SE Diplomacy Language Selection Form

michaelpri

Hmm, what to choose....

Doorknob

yay

rofl Snowman is an option

Ok, I submitted it

michaelpri

@Doorknob That's my first, second, and third choices

Doorknob

Mine were pretty easy. Rust/C++/Go

michaelpri

I feel like the only languages I can actually do stuff with wouldn't be good here.

user61230

02:13

Always a good time to learn a new language ;)

michaelpri

Alright, I went Go/Rust/Python

Doorknob

@Emrakul ... like Snowman? :D

~"Turkey wins"sP

user61230

@Doorknob code too clear; needs more obfuscation :P

Doorknob

)"Uvslfz!xjot":NdE;aMsP

~"Uvsl{^&jot"4vN3"fz!x"AsP:NdE;aMsP

user61230

.....what

user61230

02:22

.......point made

Doorknob

}@){"Uvsl{^&jot"3((?{%"fz!x"*))4>->-#AsP[[:\]]:NiN2nS;aMsP

There. Better? :D

michaelpri

And that prints out....?

Doorknob

Turkey wins

michaelpri

Wow....

user61230

...congratulations

user61230

02:31

o_O

michaelpri

I guess I have to forfeit now

Doorknob

:D

user61230

02:43

cc @Air @Undo resp <- formthingstarboard.getdo

Air

Should I have heard of rust?

user61230

It's one of those newfangled whatzits.

user61230

(It actually looks really nice.)

user61230

WOULD YOU RATHER BE A RUSTACEAN OR A GOPHER?

Doorknob

there is a correct answer

Air

02:49

Also, every time I hear about D all I can think of is The Third Manifesto

Pythons eat gophers :p

In seriousness, any language with a healthy standard library that won't be obnoxious to deploy would be fine.

user61230

now we get to argue about which standard library is healthiest....

Air

03:24

Didn't say "healthiest"

Probably shouldn't have said "standard library" either when third party libraries can be just as good

What do I want to say, "ecosystem?" That always sounds so pretentious

Undo

03:50

@Emrakul Whazzat?

@Emrakul I don't see a way to get in, is there an invite link or what?

user61230

04:16

@Undo link on starboard for development language choice

user61230

@Undo Try this query

Undo

@Emrakul Oh, did that

@Emrakul Works, but wants password

I think it worked

(I revnuked that password)

Okay, I've got alerts every single day in trello to check that.

And I have verified orders for this turn

user61230

Awesome!

Undo

And sorry folks for the last thing

user61230

Counting votes for diplomaSE using Meek STV.
6 languages running.

 R|Go       |Python   |C++      |Rust     |C#       |Ruby     |Exhausted|Surplus  |Threshold
  |         |         |         |         |         |         |         |         |
============================================================================================
 1| 2.000000| 1.000000| 0.000000| 1.000000| 0.000000| 1.000000| 0.000000| 0.000000| 2.500001
  |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

user61230

04:24

No worries, @Undo! It happens.

Undo

@Emrakul Does anyone know Go?

user61230

[raises hand]

Undo

Maybe we should build it in seven different parts, all in different languages, then mash them together at the end

2

It'd be a good exercise in real-life-programming

I just figured out how to get code written for free:

> 1. Post challenge on Code Golf that is basically your spec, with a character-length winning criteria because those people are picky.
> 2. Post answer to Code Golf challenge on Code Review, have those people deobfuscate what the Code Golf people wrote
> 3. Copy Code Review answer to project
> 4. Profit

user61230

...I wonder if Code Golf would like a Diplomacy Adjudicator challenge.

Undo

That's what I'm thinking!

user61230

04:28

That could be really funny.

Undo

We could call it research. "Techniques for Harvesting Free Labor From Unpaid Internet Workers Who Think They're Having Fun"

user61230

urgh, I'm trying to find the relevant SMBC

user61230

oh well, I'll just drop this funny one I found anyway

user61230

user61230

07:35

Okay, there's a lot of writing in that document for what amounts to a pretty simple summary.

user61230

The orders form a graph. Cycles can be removed from the graph and handled separately by the Paradox Engine; everything else is in a DAG and a topological sort - or just recursion - for adjudication suffices.

user61230

Actually, we can make it simpler. Whenever we come across a cycle in the order graph, replace it with a single node referring to the adjudication of all the cyclic elements.

user61230

That explicitly removed the cyclic component, and if nothing interferes with the cycle, it'll be topologically sorted as a single point. If something does interfere, then that something will resolve first, at which point the cyclic node is evaluated.

user61230

That means there's a necessity for a Order/Node implementation that refers to a cyclic set of orders/nodes.

user61230

(There's a small amount of infinite loop/unresolvable/paradoxical case protection involved, too.)

Air

14:58

@Emrakul Huh. I didn't know Meek STV used random tiebreakers. Would the result have been any different if only C++ and C# had been eliminated at first?

And welcome back in, @Undo - I'm glad it wasn't a permanent setback

Undo

Thanks ;)

user61230

15:35

I doubt it, @Air. I'll post the votes in a bit if you're curious.

Air

Only slightly. Go seems like a totally reasonable choice. And we get to say DiplomaSE is go!

Undo

11 hours ago, by Undo

Maybe we should build it in seven different parts, all in different languages, then mash them together at the end

Just sayin' :)

Air

Let's just use Mongo

I will never not link this video

user61230

15:54

MongoDB, Scratch, and Cobol.

Undo

Oh gosh

You'll have a unique GitHub language color-bar thing, at least

Air

17:21

@Emrakul Scratch is called something different now IIRC

Oh, strike that, I'm thinking of Snap!

user61230

Diplomacy adjudicator. In Snap!.

user61230

(I'm going to start building some basics soon.)

Air

I haven't used Snap! but Scratch is a huge pain in the ass for anything that benefits from a data structure

I made a half-assed Snake clone in Scratch

user61230

I have never used Scratch

Air

17:40

oh wow, I found it (warning: loud music)

Now I've given away my secret love for LeVar Burton

user61230

23:57

most annoying bug

user61230

"Why won't it find 'POR' in the Regions map?"

user61230

"Oh, it's because it's searching for []byte{83 80 78 110 99 13} instead of []byte{80 79 82}."

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