/dev/chat

Tim

10:47

I was wondering what symbol mean in a programming language? Scheme has it, R has it. Not sure bash/zsh, perl or other languages that are more popular here.

If any of you are interested in more

0

Q: How is a symbol "given meaning by a family of operations indexed by symbols"?

Practical Foundation of Programming Languages by Harper says: Chapter 31 Symbols A symbol is an atomic datum with no internal structure. Whereas a variable is given meaning by substitution, a symbol is given meaning by a family of operations indexed by symbols. A symbol is just a na...

programming-languages

0

Q: What are symbols and symbol references in Scheme?

Practical Foundation of Programming Languages by Harper distinguishes concept "symbol" and concept "symbol reference" which refers to a symbol: Chapter 31 Symbols In this chapter, we consider two constructs for computing with symbols. The ﬁrst is a means of declaring new symbols fo...

programming-languages

Kusalananda

11:17

@Tim I believe that "symbol" is what is sometimes referred to as a "token" when parsing a script file in a shell language interpreter. I.e., a character or a string that does not need to be further expanded to find its actual value.

Like the variable name var, the operator = and the string hello (and each double quote) in var="hello"

Faheem Mitha

11:30

I don't understand what the quote means when it says:

> Whereas a variable is given meaning by substitution, a symbol is given meaning by a family of operations indexed by symbols. A symbol is just a name, or index, for a family of operations.

To my mind, the defining attribute of a symbol is that it is atomic. But the use of a symol can be various. Mostly it represents something. But the something can vary.

I don't see how for example, the Lua symbol 'nil' (to take a random example), corresponds to a family of operations.

Of course, 'nil' might not be a symbol.

In Lua it's described as a value.

Sam

15:23

Hello guys

I am really frustrated and i hope you could help me

I just bought a new laptop for 500 euros

And this is my first main-boot of kali linux so far.

So I did have it before, just dual booted it.

So when plug in the USB stick with kali linux and i go to install it, it doesnt detect my network card. every. single. time.

I tried 4 versions of kali linux and it still doesnt work.

Anyway I can install it without it

So I finished doing the setup

Logged in with everything etc etc

FF 2 hours

booting it up, logging in, getting a black screen after login.

This also happened yesterday 2 times (after that i just reinstalled it)

but now im frustrated because i cant return the laptop and kali isnt working.

What do I do? I figure it has at least something to do with the network card not being detected, how do I install the driver on the USB?

And FYI I already added the sources myself using my tp-link wifi adapter (that it sees, weird)

So what is the solution? I basically have a few options

1. I go nuts and absolutely demolish my new notebook
2. I try and try and try again and will go nuts after and demolish my notebook
3. I send it back and hope the seller is nice
4. I download a *decent* linux distro such as ubuntu

5. I fix the black screen issue

6. I reinstall and add the drivers to the install-usb

So i'll cry until someone with a brain bigger than me types something in the chat

Okay, so i have an update

As a failsafe to yesterday where it did the same thing, i added a "root" account (kali 2020.1 doesn't feature that anymore, really weird you have to do a workaround to get it back)

So this does not give me a black screen when I log in

new update

my account works but I have to log in to root first and then switch user???

This is what I dont get

Why is that?

Great. The screen is glitching out

It looks exactly like the image in this thread:

0

Q: Kali screen flickering after upgrade

I am running kali 5.4.0-kali4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.4.19-1kali1 (2020-02-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux / Dual Boot with Windows 10 I get a glitch on the screen after running 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade' the first time after installing this OS. My PC is: OS: Kali GNU/Linux Host: HP Laptop 15 Ke...

linux kali-linux debian

The first answer didn't do anything, the second answer made my screen go black entirely

Sam

16:32

: (

fra-san

@Sam Since you're open to it, I'd suggest you to consider installing a different OS. Of course, unless you were setting up a dedicated device for penetration testing. Are you?

Sam

16:53

@fra-san Yes, that was why I bought the new laptop, so my even more expensive laptop (gtx 1050, i7) wouldn't get demolished.

Faheem Mitha

@Sam Stop using Kali. That would be a good start.

And for future reference, it's a good idea to try to check whether your hardware works with the operating system you want to use before buying it.

Hi @fra-san. How goes it?

Sam

Why does everyone always say "Stop using kali"?

Anyway my hardware is compatible

fra-san

@FaheemMitha Hi! I'm doing well, thanks. And you?

Faheem Mitha

17:09

@fra-san Hanging in there.

I hear Italy is doing better.

@Sam There is a question I could link to. But it's been a bit overused.

The question, I mean.

fra-san

@Sam Have you come across the discussion about Kali (questions) on Meta U&L? You may find an answer there.

Faheem Mitha

@fra-san I was trying to avoid linking to it. :-)

fra-san

@FaheemMitha I don't think I like it, but it gives an idea of the... complexity of the subject.

@FaheemMitha Yes, it is. And now we are rushing towards regaining our freedom, so that we will back in trouble as soon as we can :-)

@Sam Then, Kali may be a reasonable choice.

Faheem Mitha

@fra-san I don't think that virus has actually gone away, so...

@fra-san That sentence seems unlikely to be true.

Somehow Kerala managed to keep the number of deaths to... 3.

I'm not sure how they managed that.

fra-san

17:27

@FaheemMitha If I were a penetration tester and I had a spare laptop to dedicate to it, I wouldn't see any reason not to use (try) Kali. And I try not to make assumptions on people's skills just because they are having troubles installing.

Faheem Mitha

@fra-san It's fairly uncommon for people to be penetration testing. I'm not even sure what that is.

Kusalananda

@fra-san The issue with it is that it pushes the "blame" on to the user. "You are the wrong audience/not qualified/not experienced enough to use Kali". It should be the other way around, e.g. "Kali is not the right tool for what you are trying to do".

@Sam I'd go with @fra-san's suggestion if I were you and you want to run a Linux. Pick Ubuntu or any other Linux that works with your laptop. That should be the 1st priority. If you're into penetration testing and stuff like that, then the tools that Kali Linux has will most likely be available for other Linuxes too.

@FaheemMitha Poking at walls, trying to go through them.

fra-san

@FaheemMitha I see twelve hits for "penetration testing" on Stack Overflow Jobs :-)

None for "penetration tester", to be honest.

Faheem Mitha

@fra-san I'm not clear what the purpose of Kali Linux is. You can install anything you like on any Linux distribution.

I realise it comes with those things (whatever they are), already pre-installed, but does it really matter?

fra-san

@Kusalananda Sure, that is the part of that Q/A I don't like. But I'm pretty sure some of the answers also put it the "right" way.

Sam

17:37

Thank you for the advice, but I am accustomed to kali and have more than basic knowledge. Its just that this never happened and I can't apt my way out of this

The network card is RTL8821CE. How can I include the driver on a removable medium?

Kusalananda

@Sam I can't personally give advice on that. I'm not a Linux user.

Faheem Mitha

@Sam You earlier said you get a black screen on installation.

Is that a problem as well, or do you just have a network card problem?

Tim

19:05

@Kusalananda Thanks. Is a variable a symbol?

Speaking of crying, I want to too.

Crying is infectious.

Sam

20:27

@FaheemMitha thats a second problem

Isaac

20:37

@Sam What you are experiencing are pretty basic problems when installing Linux in a random computer, that is not special of Kali. That you get a black screen is usually a problem with the screen card. What you need to solve your issue with your network card is a kernel module.

@Sam The simplest solution is to connect via an Ethernet cable (if possible) or use an USB wifi card (10-15 U$) to get provisional internet to load the module (probably you need some firmware) Please read this also.

@Sam But I would take a different path. First, find a live distro that works on your laptop (nothing to install, just boot to the iso). When you have found one, take a look at the modules it loads and make sure that the kali you want also loads them.

Sam

Can you elaborate on the latter?

And for the second one, I have a TP link wifi thing with antenna, but it doesn't get recognized when in the installer. Maybe this is because it doesnt install the driver from the usb

And what kernel module do I need and how do I install one?

Isaac

@Sam Get an Ubuntu live[(ubuntu.com/download/desktop) (I believe that most ubuntus boot to a running desktop to then install), a [Debian live, Puppy (a quite small distro but quite compatible).

@Sam Or anything else that you like. Just write the iso to a pen drive, boot up and test what works and what not. If the distro doesn't work in the laptop, no big deal, just some time to download and try used. But all that is basic Linux usage, not a Kali problem.

Sam

I tried Kali live and it worked

Kali 2019.3

Isaac

@Sam That is a path that you must learn to walk. Learn to solve such basic issues.

Sam

Basic, I have no solution.

Isaac

20:50

@Sam What means "worked"? Do you have internet?

Sam

I need internet and access to my system and I don't get both

I have an internet connection for my other devices yes but the card doesnt get recognized

and I can't use the TP Link in the installer

And I need that

Otherwise I can't install the full version

Isaac

@Sam sigh. You just have said: I tried Kali live and it worked , What means "worked" ?

Sam

it did everything without visual errors

Except ofcourse detect the network card

Isaac

@sam Ahhh, thanks.

@Sam Then that distro is not the solution to your problems ..... Try another ....

Sam

You mean kali or the version?

Isaac

20:53

I mean Ubuntu, debian, puppy Linux, and a very long list of others ....

Sam

21:04

Do you mean I need to stop with kali?

Michael Homer

21:19

@Tim In the context you're asking about, a symbol is an atomic value that can be distinguished from all other values and has only a name. If you'd like to think of it as being just a unique integer behind the scenes, you could

Kusalananda

22:28

Found a use for coproc... unix.stackexchange.com/a/585604/116858

Michael Homer

coproc is my favourite feature that I never actually use

Kusalananda

@MichaelHomer Done nicer in the ksh93 shell.

Andras Deak

22:48

Hey. Saw a note in my apt changelog the other day for ssh about some key exchange algos being disabled. And sure enough today I ran into it when trying to ssh into my local nas box. Found the way to enable legacy ssh easy enough...but now my ssh agent refuses operation and I'm getting close to denvercoder9... *sigh*

Andras Deak

23:11

Hmm, seems that it somehow couldn't ask for my password which seems to be a weird bug that comes up once every leap year. I've restarted my gnome keyring daemon and it started working

Isaac

23:55

Once every leap year on a full moon while mars is ascending. Yes, I have heard that, @AndrasDeak

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