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07:46
@Kusalananda I use the abbreviation MiB fairly routinely (well, actually, I think I use GiB more—things have gotten larger...)
MB = 2^20 is only used by RAM, I think.... E.g., bandwidth never used it either.
10, 100, 1000 mbps Ethernet mean 10^7, 10^8, 10^9 bits/second.
@derobert I'm one of those "casual computer users" referred to by simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabyte
And, interesting, a lot of GUIs used to use the 2^20 megabyte, but they've switched to the 10^6.
08:21
Off-topic, naturally. :-) But this question seems to have attracted some interesting responses. Health care really seems to be a disaster in the US.
175
Q: Why are so many Americans against Obamacare?

GoogleWallopWhat is it about Obamacare that so many Americans are against such that it became an election pledge to repeal it? I could understand a candidate promising tax cuts and then after being elected scrapping Obamacare to pay for them. But this was not the case. It was a specific election promise ...

@derobert In most things other than computing, I'm not a conservative, but when the web started blooming in 1994 I uttered the actual word "It will never catch on". I also, still, find it extremely confusing to move to base 10 from base 2 while at the same time relabelling the units. As a programmer, base 2 makes more sense...
@derobert 2^20 just seems like misuse of nomenclature to me.
Given what Mega is generally used to mean.
@FaheemMitha Having to opt-in for healthcare is just... sick.
@Kusalananda Yes, a lot of times it does. But most UIs shouldn't be designed around that. Most UIs should, I think, use 10^6. Which seems to be the general trend.
Stuff particularly for programmers (e.g., debuggers) have darn good reasons to use 1024-based units.
@Kusalananda Um, I don't follow. It's compulsory. You have no option.
08:26
Or, in a lot of cases, 400-based units (that'd be 0x0400, of course)
@derobert If RAM uses MB = 2^20, it probably shouldn't.
@FaheemMitha If it's obligatory, then why are/were people urged to apply for it?
RAM does because it's size is, as a side effect of how it works, a power of 2
@Kusalananda I think they have to have it. I suppose they were told to get it because they had to get it.
@derobert Ok, but call it something else, then.
Probably started with 1K RAMs. Which was only 2% off. So close enough...
@FaheemMitha Indeed. Best to label it MiB, GiB, etc.
08:29
@Kusalananda Technically you don't have to get it, but then they slam you with extra taxes. A fine in all but name.
And the Supreme Court found that it was not unconstitutional. Useless bunch.
@derobert Agreed. But presumably they don't.
@FaheemMitha No, they don't. It's still marketed in GB, not GiB, despite that being ~7% off. Traditions die hard.
@derobert That's unfortunate.
I'll try to remember to write things like GiB, but it's hard.
And also MB and GB instead of Mb and Gb, since it seems the latter two are also wrong.
Yeah, sometimes Mb means bits
Though 'mbit' or 'mbps' is much clearer for that
@derobert It is. But mbitps would be even clearer. :-)
well, mbit/s would be
08:34
@derobert Yes, ok.
but avoid mb/s — that is often megabytes/sec
A lot of this didn't used to matter: it was all for display to experts, who were expected to know which meaning made sense in context
@derobert While I realise that Americans are (understandably) sick of the topic of healthcare (and if you don't want to talk about it I completely understand) but has the Affordable Care Act made things worse, or it is a mixed bag? There does not seem to be a concensus.
Someone looking at transfer rates on his router was expected to know that mb/s meant mega (10^6) bits per second.
08:37
@derobert I'm noticing "KiB" in Ubuntu top whereas OpenBSD top uses just M and K.
@derobert Didn't use to matter because the quantities were so small?
@FaheemMitha bits v. bytes always made a difference. That's almost an order of magnitude.
Or because there weren't that many non-tech people using computers?
@derobert No, I meant the MiB vs MB thing. For example.
@FaheemMitha Personally, it make things better for me... But I have a friend it made worse off, too. Overall, it got a lot of extra people insured. So I think it was an improvement. But left a lot that still needed fixing.
@FaheemMitha yeah, though the amount of error grows the larger the unit is
@FaheemMitha ~5% for MiB v. MB, ~10% for TiB v. TB
@derobert Yes, so as memory has become larger, so as the error.
Though my impression is that memory prices are no longer declining as fast as they used to.
08:40
People used to complain back when OSes showed disk used/free in GiB (labeled GB), but disks were marked in GB.
@FaheemMitha Not sure, been a bit since I bought memory. Would have to check (find) data.
My current machine has 16GB. Though apparently really 16 GiB. :-)
I remember a lot of people being confused—and coming to false conclusions, like it was filesystem overhead (this was on Mac OS, where an empty HFS filesystem actually didn't take much room, and didn't have reserved space)
Have things standardized on MB/GB now? As in 10^3/10^6?
@FaheemMitha Yep. A DIMM's size is, AFAIK, always a power of two. A system though can have a non-power-of-two RAM (e.g., I have a machine with 24 GiB, from 3×8GiB).
@FaheemMitha Mostly, except RAM.
@derobert Well, I guess that's good. Except the RAM people should catch up.
08:47
Yeah, and the US should switch to meters :-/
That too. :-)
@derobert I thought the whole "entrenching the insurance companies further" was very problematic.
But it seems there is not even a concensus that single-payer would be better.
And I must admit that my only encounter with a state-funded system was less than positive. But that's only anecdotal.
@FaheemMitha Don't think it really entrenched them further—it mostly just left that the same.
@derobert Oh?
Well, it gave them a few more customers—the Obamacare market is, I believe, actually pretty small. I'd guess that the Medicare expansion that went with it was actually more (new) people covered, and that's single-payer (government run)
But I don't have numbers in front of me, so that's a guess.
And I'm pretty sure the non-exchange market (mostly employer-provided/purchased insurance) is much larger.
Ok. Well, you know more about it than I do.
08:55
Our biggest problem, which it really didn't touch, is that healthcare in the US is much more expensive than, well, anywhere else.
@derobert Yes, that's well documented.
From your table, it looks like in all cases the cost as a % of GDP has increased.
Between 1995 and 2014, that is.
@FaheemMitha Yes. There is probably a counterexample, where a country collapsed or something, but that's the general rule
@derobert I don't understand why, though.
@FaheemMitha That's when the web started .... ;-)
It's possible people just prefer to spend more on healthcare as they get richer.
A lot of the rich countries are also becoming (on average) older.
09:01
@derobert Is everyone getting richer?
@Kusalananda ??!!
@FaheemMitha Not everyone, of course. But that's the general trend. And it's certainly held in e.g., Western Europe.
@FaheemMitha Sorry, that was an off-topic comment to a discussion I was not part of.
@Kusalananda No problem. But if it was a joke, I didn't get it.
I'm sure someone has done a regression.
What makes the US health care so expensive? Is it that the doctors are overpaid?
09:03
@derobert Hmm. It lists India as going from 4% to 4.7%. Which is actually quite large, both as an absolute measure, and as an increase, for a country with a basically non-functional health care system.
(compared to the rest of the world)
@Kusalananda Sounds like you'd enjoy tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations :-)
@Kusalananda I don't know, honestly.
@derobert Yeah, I enjoy that kind of stuff. Also autodeskresearch.com/publications/samestats
@Kusalananda It's definitely overpriced. I remember looking at the cost of simple things in horrified fascination.
Just regular doctor checkups. Or simple tests.
Hundreds of dollars.
The US is expensive, yes. But it's not that expensive.
And that was at Duke. The Triangle isn't a particularly expensive place. Or it wasn't - that might be changing - I don't know.
@FaheemMitha I pay the equivalent of $10 for a checkup but is guaranteed to not have to pay more than $125/yr, and I'm is guaranteed to not pay more than $250/yr for medicines. When (if) I reach 85 years, checkups are free.
09:13
@Kusalananda Sounds like an excellent deal.
The only thing I had to opt-into was being Swedish...
In India, we just pay for everything. Insurance does exist, but I've never used it, and don't know anything about it.
@Kusalananda Was that an option?
It's after 5AM, good night :-/
@FaheemMitha Depends on your religious beliefs I assume. But I could probably opt-out of it if I wanted for some reason.
@derobert Be well.
@derobert Have a good night.
@Kusalananda What does religion have to do with it?
09:16
@FaheemMitha If you believe that your actions in a previous life influenced your current rebirth ;-)
@Kusalananda I don't follow.
And there isn't such a thing as previous lives, anyway.
@FaheemMitha I'm just making a contrived joke about being able to choose where you're born.
@Kusalananda Ah.
It sounds like you could do a lot worse than being Swedish. Though one would have to cope with the weather.
@FaheemMitha The only thing I'm not ok with is that it's incredibly dry at the moment. My skin is literally peeling.
@Kusalananda Use moisturiser. I also have dry skin problems.
It definitely helps.
Though it's not actually ever dry here.
09:20
Yeah, I do that. My hand when it was as worst: instagram.com/p/BPckUFHALpc
The air, I mean.
@Kusalananda It doesn't help?
@FaheemMitha It helps, but I ran out of lotion.
@Kusalananda Well, that's easily remedied. :-)
And I'd use it all over. Not just for the hands. I believe it's recommended for use after a shower.
I wonder, if I start saying gibibyte, whether people will think I've had a stroke or something.
On the other hand, the UK climate was too humid at times.
@Kusalananda It's very humid here. But I still get dry skin problems.
09:23
@FaheemMitha gigglebytes
Or I used to.
Need to go unload a washing machine...
@Kusalananda gogobytes.
@Kusalananda Ok. Laters.
 
6 hours later…
15:32
@Kusalananda @Celada @thrig @JeffSchaller Pinging all of you since you had voted to close the post below:
-1
Q: how to find combinations

maryI don't code, don't know the difference between a tag nor a bag however i do have a question and sincerely hope that you may provide so insight/direction. if i have a set of numbers in a tic-tac-toe format (9) numbers, is there a program that will identify the common possible combinations of thr...

@terdon I voted off-topic and to migrate to SO.
While you're absolutely right that it should be closed, it is important to choose the right reason. That had 3 migrate to SO votes and one "off topic: learning materials" vote. I don't know who had voted for what but they're all completely wrong choices :)
The first rule of migration is We don't migrate crap.
That was 100% crap, completely unclear and in the best case scenario a "give me the code" question.
The point of migration is to move a gem of a question that just happens to be off topic here to a better home. If the question is bad, we just close.
Imagine how we'd feel if SO started dumping all of their stupid Kali questions on us! :P
Then, I've started noticing a lot of abuse of the learning materials close reason. That should only be used to close requests for online tutorials and the like.
If a question is crap but doesn't fit the set close reasons, either give a custom one ("I am voting to close this question because it is completely off topic" or something) or choose too broad, unclear etc.
The reason we choose for closure is the only explanation we give to the OP so it is important to give them useful info.
So, never migrate bad questions and please choose the right close reason.
That said, thanks for keeping the site clean!
I hear you. I do see that the question in question does not specify neither language nor research effort. So it is crap.
15:37
@Kusalananda Yep. Nor does it show any code, nor explain what they need, really, and bad formatting etc.
@terdon There's a custom close reason? I don't recall that.
Apologies, @terdon. Thanks a whole bunch for being a good moderator and letting us know about these issues!
If we migrate, we edit and fix it up first. We should only send things to another site if the target site will be improved by their presence. So if it looks like you wouldn't want it in your back yard, don't send it to anyone else's.
@Kusalananda Heh, no worries. Migration is a pain. :)
@FaheemMitha Yep. Off topic -> other.
I wouldn't know, but I take your word for it.
15:38
Oh, Off Topic. But that isn't a free form custom reason. What about if it isn't off topic?
@Kusalananda Imagine Ask Ubuntu sending all their Kali questions (and they get a few too). :P
@FaheemMitha Then why would you close it?
@terdon Because it's incomprehensible?
I totally get the point. The Q is off-topic here and on-topic on SO, but it's a crap Q.
15:40
My rule of thumb is that if I see something that's off topic here and would be on topic elsewhere but isn't a good question, I just close and leave a comment suggesting they ask on moreAppropriate.stackexchange but make sure they add this and that and fix the formatting etc.
3
If it's great as is, I'll migrate. But only if it's already good or can easily edited into shape.
I've seen questions here which are clearly on topic, but are very hard to understand, for whatever reason.
@FaheemMitha Close as unclear.
@terdon Ok.
Actually that tic-tac-toe question is probably a perfectly reasonable question, but written so poorly (and without supporting context) as to be incomprehensible. I can imagine it could be on topic on Math or something.
@FaheemMitha Still, terdon will rightly not migrate crap, no matter where it's on-topic.
@Kusalananda I was not suggesting it be migrated.
15:44
@FaheemMitha Then it doesn't matter where it's on-topic.
Just saying that is might be a perfectly reasonable question somewhere.
@Kusalananda Well, not unless the poster improves it.
It looks like an elementary combinatorial question.
@FaheemMitha Sure, but not it its current state.
@terdon Agreed.
@terdon Let us know if you see more of these (at least if my name is on the list of voters). I need to know when I'm doing the "wrong" thing to be able to improve.
It's perfectly reasonable to ask here for opinions when thinking about taking some action wrt to a question or an answer.
I do that frequently - I'm often not sure what to do. Or I used to. I haven't been active recently.
15:47
@Kusalananda Count on it! :P
This doesn't make sense to me:
0
A: where is my memory in linux?

acrZFS module not reported in buffers+cached i update my memory analyser tool that help to find problems like that bug-free-memory

Is the poster saying that ZFS consumed 9 GB of memory. Is that possible?
@FaheemMitha I gave up on that one, not just because memory on Linux seems to be somewhat like black magic, but also because I couldn't see where his "3713500 app" came from.
@Kusalananda Oh, ok. I won't worry about it then. But I can't imagine how ZFS could consume significant amounts of memory.
Speak of the devil. I see we just got a kali question. Should I tag it so people can avoid it?
Never mind, I can't read. It already is.
@FaheemMitha Oh, I see now, it's from the ps output (which he doesn't show).
15:56
@FaheemMitha Disk cache? Won't that be proportional to the size of the disk?
@terdon Still, 9 GB?
Dunno. Maybe reasonable if the disk is a few teras?
I guess. I don't see anything about the size of his disk.
16:28
@terdon Thanks for the reminder. I was in fact keeping in mind the "we don't migrate crap" rule when I voted to close that. I was thinking that the "learning materials" reason made some small amount of sense since it was kind of a "how does programming work, generally" type of question. I admit I could have chosen a better reason (but definitely not migrate!)
@Celada No worries. Just go for "unclear" or "too broad" next time. Those usually fit.
 
3 hours later…
19:00
@terdon thank you for the correction (re: "how to find combinations" VTC to migrate to SO)

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