/dev/chat

Braiam

00:07

umm... cleaning the mobo with water?

that ought to damage some joints

Gilles

> put the motherboard under a hose with a lot of water pressure

I'm amazed that his system worked afterwards

water is bad, and pressure is bad

Braiam

I don't even talk over the motherboard

I use air cans for the cards themself and a brush for dissipators and fans

slm

01:10

does anyone here have a tablet they use for reading PDFs?

Ramesh

Alright this is clearly a dupe.

0

Q: Why do I have to execute bash programs with ./?

Why is it that some bash programs will only run on my system when I type ./ before their name?, example, in my android sdk folders I have to execute adb like this: ./adb devices Why not just adb devices?

Does this look ok for the above?

17

Q: What is the difference between running "bash script.sh" and "./script.sh"?

If script.sh is just something typical like #!/bin/bash echo "Hello World!" Is there a preferred way to run the script? I think you first have to chmod it so it becomes executable?

bash shell-script executable

Ramesh

01:31

Ha, what is philosophy tag doing in U & L SE?

18

Q: “free-as-in-speech” vs. "free-as-in-beer”

What is the difference between "free-as-in-speech" and "free-as-in-beer"?

philosophy

slm

@Ramesh thanks closed as dup

Ramesh

@slm, thanks. What about the above question? Probably it should as well be closed.

slm

@Ramesh I don't think so, that seems like an appropriate Q within the Open Source community, no? The answer my Michael (one of the mods) and the letter from Richard Stallman are nice adds to the site.

Ramesh

@slm, yeah. But it is tagged with philosophy which is obsolete. May be edit the tags to be more meaningful?

slm

@Ramesh - thanks I hadn't noticed that tag was obsolete

Ramesh

01:45

@slm, I added opensource and opensource-projects tag to that question.

slm

@Ramesh - thanks that seems appropr.

This Q was the last holdout for the philosophy tag, I took it off of it as well as the unix tag.

29

Q: How does a unix or linux system work?

I would like to know how the OS works in a nutshell: The basic components it's built upon How those components work together What makes unix UNIX What makes it so different from other OSs like Windows

architecture

Ramesh

@slm, nice. Probably we spared future philosophical questions from entering our tight firewall :)

derobert

03:30

Aha! I understand why find ... xargs is popular now!

$ find cur -type f -delete
find: invalid predicate `-delete'
$ find cur -type f -exec rm '{}' +
find: missing argument to `-exec'
$ find cur -type f -print0 | xargs -0 rm
$

That's on a machine with ancient software. So it used to be necessary.

$ find --version
GNU find version 4.1.20

Faheem Mitha

11:34

Does any C++ user feel like commenting on stackoverflow.com/q/24527433/350713 ? Perhaps there is nothing more to be said, but like I said, this is not like the examples I've seen.

slm

12:45

@derobert - I almost have the great answer badge, only 9 more to go 8-)

91

A: Can I somehow add a "&& prog2" to an already running prog1?

You should be able to do this in the same shell you're in with the wait command: $ sleep 30 & [1] 17440 $ wait 17440 && echo hi ...30 seconds later... [1]+ Done sleep 30 hi excerpt from Bash man page wait [n ...] Wait for each specified process and return its termin...

Ulrich Dangel

13:06

@slm mentioning this helped, just upvoted ;)

slm

@UlrichDangel - thanks 8-)

Ulrich Dangel

.oO(i only need 70 more votes...)

Braiam

@slm slowly is the best way ;)

it makes you feel good that you are not just going with the flow and you are actually helping someone

slm

13:21

@Braiam - agreed, but I'm the type of person that likes to unlock everything in a game and so the few badges I'm missing I find irksome even though I know they're meaningless and vain. I'm also the guy that likes numbers to end in a 0 or 5 for things, I must be a bit OCD 8-).

Ulrich Dangel

@slm in 0 or 5?! why not use the binary system and everything zero except the most significant bit? that would be more challenging

.oO(this would be also bit ocd)

.oO(ok that was rather lame)

slm

@UlrichDangel mentioning the use of binary for this is ocd 8-)

Ulrich Dangel

@slm you started with bit ocd ;) but it is also more challenging and you could focus for example on altering sequences ... look how nice 101010 looks and it's also a nice number (42)

slm

@UlrichDangel - very true, it does have a nice pattern to it 8-)

Ulrich Dangel

14:07

or think about 111000 ... need a user script to do that for me

Ramesh

@slm, do we have any editor for editing nsswitch.conf file? For example, we use visudo to edit the /etc/sudoers file.

Ulrich Dangel

@slm no but you can use augeas

Ramesh

@slm Now, 7 more to go :)

Ulrich Dangel

@Ramesh you typically don't have specialized editors/commands for most config files as it isn't a big issue if people modifying files in parallel or introducing syntax errors

for sudo it is a problem as it may introduce syntax errors resulting in an invalid file which could prevent you editing it

Braiam

@Gilles if I understand it right, I can use schroot to chroot an already installed system, right?

Ramesh

14:17

@UlrichDangel, thanks. Then I guess this is the only good solution right?

1

A: Editing nsswitch.conf file safely

Take a backup as, cp /etc/nsswitch.conf /etc/nsswitch.conf.orignal Now you can use sed -i or open /etc/nsswitch.conf with some editor like vim and do the changes. If error occurs, you can revert back to the original version, cp /etc/nsswitch.conf.original /etc/nsswitch.conf

Ulrich Dangel

and similar for /etc/{passwd,shadow,group}. there it is mostly about making sure no parallel editing happenings to prevent clashes via uids etc.

no for that usecase it would be augeas

Ramesh

@UlrichDangel, thanks. I have included your suggestion in the answer.

1

A: Editing nsswitch.conf file safely

Take a backup as, cp /etc/nsswitch.conf /etc/nsswitch.conf.orignal Now you can use sed -i or open /etc/nsswitch.conf with some editor like vim and do the changes. If error occurs, you can revert back to the original version, cp /etc/nsswitch.conf.original /etc/nsswitch.conf I got this tool s...

terdon

Has anyone else gotten an email from someone called Alicja Notowska who is apparently recruiting for Google? Did I just get google head hunted or is this SPAM?

What's worse, they contacted me at my private @gmail address which is not the one I've used on SE yet link back to my U&L profile.

Ulrich Dangel

@terdon i typically get every year one email, so this is typically legit

terdon

WTF?

So how'd they get the address?

Ulrich Dangel

14:24

i think they probably got it from forums/mailinglists etc.

my address from mailinglists/recommendations from a friend iirc

terdon

The thing is that they mention my U&L profile yet this is a different email.

Strange.

Ulrich Dangel

@Ramesh i added a small, little bit more detailed answer re. augeas

Ramesh

@terdon, go for it.

terdon

Well, if it's legit, it's from google so I'm sure they can find my email if they want to of course.

Ulrich Dangel

@terdon i am pretty sure an recruiter doesnt have access to oauth data etc. if that is what you are implying

they probalby searched your name and found an address probably

Ramesh

14:26

@UlrichDangel thanks.

terdon

Don't really knokw what I'm implying. I am just unaware of any link between my SE profile and the address they sent to apart from the fact that my (hidden to the public) SE address is a gmail account and linked to my main gmail.

Hmm, unless they parsed the chat transcript here, I might have given it out at some point.

Braiam

@terdon I remember people tell that it is spam

just search for your email in google

terdon

@Braiam Well yeah, if you have my real name, sure. But from terdon => real name is surprising.

casey

@terdon if it is spam, they are at least using a real person ie.linkedin.com/pub/alicja-notowska/85/115/b16 who does actually recruit for google out of ireland.

terdon

I know, I checked. Also a real @google.com address.

Ulrich Dangel

14:29

• Use Boolean search, Google applications, and social networking sites to identify potential candidates.

;)

casey

Well, no harm in replying directly to her google address.

Ulrich Dangel

and ask where she got the details

casey

(rather than blindly hitting the reply-to: header)

terdon

Yeah, well, I don't use any social networking sites. I only have a token account (different name and email) on twitter and facebook and I use neither.

I have, I think, one friend on FB and am following 2 people on twitter. Log in to both about once a year. No info there.

@casey Good point. Though the headers look legit to my limited expertise.

Ulrich Dangel

@terdon if you want i can ask some friends if she is listed in the internal database?

terdon

14:35

@UlrichDangel Pretty sure she will be, which doesn't mean that she's actually the person behind the mail of course.

TBH the whole thing looks legit, I'm just surprised they contacted me at that address.

Braiam

terdon

Ah, but one does and did.

And it never had that email to begin with anyway.

Braiam

@terdon [email protected] FTW!

terdon

Huh?

Heh, actually @UlrichDangel, I just read your profile and she's in Ireland. Would you like me to bring you to her attention if I answer?

Ulrich Dangel

@terdon no

@terdon if i would apply for google i would go via one of my friends

@terdon tbh i feel still a little bit bad after they rejected me twice after the onsite ;)

terdon

14:41

Heh, pretty sure they'll reject me if I ever answer. I'm a biologist FFS, never worked professionally as an IT guy.

Ulrich Dangel

@terdon oh no, i wouldnt count on that

@terdon tbh i enjoyed my google interview experience and would recommend doing it

terdon

Hmm, I might at that actually. Nothing to loose.

casey

14:57

@Braiam not simple, but certainly doable

UPS... I can't stand how they'll drive past my house 4 times before noon but wait to deliver my package until around 5pm. And I know they aren't driving 30 minutes one-way back to their sort facility to reload new packages. My box is in that truck!

terdon

@casey Traveling salesman fail.

Gilles

@Braiam yes. schroot is a convenience around chroot. Note that schroot overwrites some files in /etc in the default configuration.

terdon

15:12

@Gilles Really? chroot leaves the system unaffected though right?

casey

@terdon I find extra funny since they pride themselves on the gained efficiency of only turning right on their routes

Ulrich Dangel

@terdon yes like /etc/debian_chroot

Ramesh

@casey How could you be sure that it is the same UPS truck that delivers your package?

casey

@Ramesh i stare into the soul of the driver as he passes without delivering

@Ramesh and I asked him once. I dont pay for an early delivery so they dont deliver early

Ramesh

@casey, that's retarded. So though they have packages ready, they will wait till the delivery time, huh?

casey

15:25

seems to be so

at least for residential amazon deliveries

Ramesh

I heard amazon is planning to use robots to do the delivery.

Ulrich Dangel

wont happen in the near future. it is one thing to deliver it to your appartment but you have to get it in the mailbox, get a signature and a lot of other issues

slm

16:09

@Ramesh I've never seen an editor for nsswitch.conf

Ulrich Dangel

.oO(augeas!)

what else do you need ;)

Faheem Mitha

Inquisitive Asked a good question on 30 separate days, and maintains a positive question record. <- What is this?

terdon

@FaheemMitha New badges.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon So I gathered. But I don't understand what it means.

terdon

47

Q: Asking days badges

A couple of months ago, I suggested a set of badges for asking questions. The responses were... mixed. The top answer can be summarized: In practice, all this would do is encourage people to ask yet more stupid, worthless questions and we have quite enough of that as it is. We believe that ...

feature-request status-completed questions badges

@FaheemMitha Or just click on the badge on your profile.

Faheem Mitha

16:21

@terdon I did. That's all it says.

@terdon Should we all really be asking more questions?

> Perhaps they don't have questions, but far more likely they find answers without needing to ask.

Well, yes. That certainly describes me.

Braiam

@terdon you can use pseudo aliases in gmail using the plus sign gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/…

Faheem Mitha

But is that a bad thing?

terdon

We're not necessarily the intended audience.

Faheem Mitha

Of course, considering the junk that gets asked here, I doubt I could do worse.

@terdon We being...?

terdon

People who have more answers than questions. Consider this guy though:

english.stackexchange.com/users/3119/yoichi-oishi?tab=badges

@Braiam Nice trick.

Faheem Mitha

16:25

@terdon Ok.

This would only have the desired effect if they care about badges though.

terdon

@FaheemMitha Same can be said for all badges.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon True

Is YOICHI OISHI really 81? If so, color me impressed.

terdon

@FaheemMitha Yup.

He's really impressive. We love him over on ELU

Faheem Mitha

Well, I guess there is no way of knowing, but based on what he says, it sounds plausible. If you are doing anything besides being a vegetable past 80 that is pretty impressive.

@terdon Ok. I didn't know you hung out there. Do you not watch TV or what?

His profile has a number of elementary English grammar errors, though. Is that some kind of in joke?

derobert

@slm Can't help you on that one, I upvoted that answer a long time ago.

Faheem Mitha

16:31

@slm Interesting definition of almost.

@slm Oh, never mind, I thought you meant something different.

terdon

@FaheemMitha Heh, no. I don't have one and haven't had one for almost 10 years now.

Faheem Mitha

@slm i upvoted you (now at 94), though I don't really see why it is so great an answer. But the users of U&L move in mysterious ways.

terdon

I can waste my own time, thank you very much.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon Good for you.

terdon

What? @slm is finally getting his 100k Q?

Faheem Mitha

16:33

@terdon 100k Q?

terdon

Which one? I've almost certainly already voted on it though.

Sorry, meant 100V

Faheem Mitha

4 hours ago, by slm

@derobert - I almost have the great answer badge, only 9 more to go 8-)

terdon

Which translates to 100K rep of course.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon How?

terdon

@FaheemMitha Yeah, I found it. And I had already voted. Tempted to downvote though. Just to see if I can hear @slm's yell of frustration all the way across the Atlantic.

@FaheemMitha Well, first you have to be an idiot...

Faheem Mitha

16:35

@terdon :-)

derobert

@FaheemMitha I upvoted it because I've had that problem before, and just grumbled about it. But next time, slm has provided a nice, elegant solution.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Ah, maybe I should try actually reading it.

@terdon People don't downvote @slm here. Everyone loves him. As attested by the election results.

derobert

@terdon mwhahaha, gave you a flag to deal with

Faheem Mitha

@derobert ?

derobert

I'm making him work for that diamond!

Avinash Raj

16:37

flag to mod.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert You go, girl!

derobert

errrr.... when did I become a girl? :-/

Ulrich Dangel

@derobert 1 minute ago

terdon

Foiled!

Faheem Mitha

@derobert It's an expression. And for all we know, you could be a girl.

derobert

16:39

@terdon All you need is a trivial edit :-P

Faheem Mitha

@terdon So, I guess the logical next step is to edit it.

@derobert oh, sorry, didn't see your comment there.

terdon

Yeah, but I'm not that mean.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon as evil masterminds go, you need to do some work to get your game on.

Braiam

the ♦ comes with inherent evilness

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Right. Like becoming drunk with power.

terdon

16:41

@derobert Can you confirm that it was dismissed as helpful?

derobert

Exactly. If people wanted someone who wouldn't get drunk with power, they would have voted for the person who promised to only do so in moderation! But they didn't. So go crazy. It's what the people want. :-D

@terdon Yeah, it is dismissed as helpful

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Well said.

@derobert based on your SO answer, you use C++. Care to comment on

0

Q: Template shadow error with clang

As the comment in the following code snippet says, this is a workaround for a gcc 4.4. bug, which I probably should remove now. See Template template parameters and variadic templates with gcc 4.4 for the background to this. In any case, this gives an error on Debian Wheezy with clang 3.4.2-4, b...

c++ templates g++ clang++ template-templates

?

I did get an answer, it is most likely correct, and I expect I will accept it eventually.

But I wouldn't mind a smidge more context.

derobert

@terdon BTW: quoting like that doesn't work in comments. Suggest you edit the comment to use italics, or just quote marks.

salbeira

Did anyone here ever work with JOGL on an Arch Distribution?

Ramesh

How does Inquisitive badge works?

derobert

16:44

@FaheemMitha It's been a while since I did much with C++...

Faheem Mitha

BTW, I was amazed today to discover that clang compiles and links against g++ compiled libraries with zero fuss. I didn't think it was that compatible with g++.

terdon

@derobert Thanks, I'd edited the answer first which is why that happened.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Ok. I'm a sporadic user myself.

@Ramesh terdon just posted a link above.

24 mins ago, by terdon

47

Q: Asking days badges

A couple of months ago, I suggested a set of badges for asking questions. The responses were... mixed. The top answer can be summarized: In practice, all this would do is encourage people to ask yet more stupid, worthless questions and we have quite enough of that as it is. We believe that ...

feature-request status-completed questions badges

derobert

But AFAIK Stack Overflow has a pretty active C++ community. So it should get an answer from someone who knows what he/she is talking about.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert You don't consider the current answer satisfactory, or have you not looked?

Yes, tons of people use C++. God knows why.

derobert

16:46

@FaheemMitha I haven't looked...

And I don't remember enough C++ language lawyering to know if its right.

salbeira

When a package installs me a .so object in my lib files, how am I supposed to integrate that Java Library into my classpath as a library in eclipse?

Faheem Mitha

If I haven't looked at C++ code for a while, and then look without properly preparing myself mentally, it makes me shudder.

@derobert Ok.

Ramesh

@FaheemMitha, thanks. I just got the inquisitive badge for myself :)

Faheem Mitha

I thought from your SO questions you were an active user. But I guess some of those questions are like 2009.

derobert

@FaheemMitha Yep. It's been a bit since I actively used C++. I've forgotten the fine details.

Faheem Mitha

16:48

I myself mostly use C++ as a backend to other languages, and then only if really necessary.

@derobert Which is easy to do. It's a demented language.

derobert

The answer looks sane, but I certainly can't tell you if its what the spec actually says.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert was that your upvote?

derobert

@FaheemMitha Yes. Perl is so much nicer!

@FaheemMitha yeah, on the question

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Sure

@derobert Ok. The SO community are a snooty bunch. Don't like to upvote. Guess it would help if my name was Jon Skeet.

@derobert thanks.

terdon

Ramesh

16:50

@FaheemMitha, I always felt out of place in SO.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon Getting warmed up for world domination?

@Ramesh Well, don't get me wrong, it is a really useful site. But it wouldn't kill them to be nicer.

terdon

:>

derobert

@terdon Evil deserves a more interesting font.

terdon

Yeah, well, that's all I had time for :)

Ramesh

Evil is in my picture.

Faheem Mitha

16:51

I think we all wonder how we go along in the long dark days before Stack Overflow...

Then again, once there was no internet. And there was darkness upon the face of the waters...

terdon

@FaheemMitha don't forget that SO is huge the "community" is actually a whole load of subcommunities etc.

My few experiences there were quite nice though I am well aware of the issues.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon True. Some of them nastier than others.

terdon

@FaheemMitha You have no idea... Now that I'm a mod, well, you hear things...

Faheem Mitha

@terdon I've mostly not had issues myself, but the general vibe is not very friendly/positive. Contrast it with tex.sx for example. Or here.

tex.sx is notably friendly (for some reason), granted.

derobert

I understand the lack of niceties on SO. When I was active there, I remember the question inflow was pretty terrible. Constant deluge of duplicates and utter junk, mixed with a few gems. I'm not sure if they've found a way to fix the incoming question quality.

Faheem Mitha

16:53

@terdon Ah, the grapevine.

Ramesh

@FaheemMitha, I also felt good to ask help from dba.SE. It is also good.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Yes, they must be get a bit jaded over there.

derobert

But that deluge on SO is where things like question bans, the weird word filters, etc. all come from

Faheem Mitha

@Ramesh Yes, they are pretty helpful. Did I point you to them the other day?

But that's a relatively small site. I guess they don't get pounded a lot.

Ramesh

@FaheemMitha, yeah you and @derobert did. I posted the questions over there and got help in their chat as well.

Faheem Mitha

16:55

@Ramesh Ok. So it was a positive experience?

derobert

We have a low enough question influx that we can at least attempt to guide people in asking a good question. Some are beyond hope, of course, but we at least have time to try. SO doesn't.

Ramesh

Yeah. They are good like us.

Faheem Mitha

@Ramesh Ok

slm

@terdon But I've begged so hard to get that Q almost to 100 8-)

Ramesh

Ha, Eric cartman observing nicety in others :P

Faheem Mitha

16:56

@derobert Yes, they have insane question rates. I've occasionally paused to watch their question feed. It's crazy.

@slm You really want that badge, huh? :-)

derobert

@slm Those 100-vote badges are really hard here, due to the site's size.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert But they have a lot of high rep users there, who could in theory try to field stuff. Though it would require a degree of coordination.

derobert

They do try. But it too much for them.

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