@FaheemMitha That is the one in slm's answer unix.stackexchange.com/a/112126/33055, section further evidence in the quote of Joey Hess' blog. The quote is correct, the blog is not.

The problem is the use of NULL instead of NUL, right @Anthon?

@slm Yes, it is often (IMHO) misused doing char x = NULL; in your code gives a warning and I have used a platform where NULL was not even 0 (or (void *) 0L )

Maybe that is differently standardised now

I always have it in the back of my mind wondering if someone wrote NUL and meant NULL or vice versa.

K&R 2nd edition. They write about \0 as the null character (as represented by the character zero) and on page 193 explicitly as \0 [...] which specifies the character NUL.

@slm I patched ls to include a -0 option including tests. (blame it on insomnia), Not sure how to post that as an answer (100 line unified diff on ls.c), but it works

ls -rt0 | xargs -0 -n1 ls -ld

@Anthon - you must be really bored 8-)

you can use pastebin too, but it should be able to go into a code box.

Can anyone assist me with a cent os problem i am having?

@ajon don't ask to ask. just say what you need and someone will look at it later.

This page: stackoverflow.com/questions/20518183/… seems to have the reason, but it doesn't give a solution that I can see.

anyone here has used chrome OS?

@user41631 I just said. say what your question is instead of asking if anyone can help you. people don't stay here all the time, they come back and read the backlog. just ask

@strugee have you used?

@user41631 did you read my message? just ask your question. don't wait until someone tells you that they've used Chrome OS to say what you need. I haven't used it myself, except for about 5 minutes in a VM back when it was an alpha, but someone else may have.

ok

@user41631 in case you didn't get it: whatever question you have about Chrome OS you should have asked by now. even though I don't use Chrome OS.

@Anthon I see. Thanks.

@Anthon You could send it to the GNU coreutils maintainer. :-) Maybe it is just nobody ever got around to doing it. And also post it as an answer.

I have such respect for people who maintain stuff like coreutils. they must get so much crap

@strugee They always have the option to ignore it.

@FaheemMitha I know. but it must still be annoying. plus you'd get the inevitable jackass who just can't let go of the fact that their patch was rejected

@strugee Well, it is volunteer work. It is thankless by definition.

On the rare occasions I've written to such lists they are quite polite. Assuming they reply at all, that is.

I've occasionally pointed out documentation deficiencies.

@FaheemMitha indeed. such is the nature of free software. that's why I have such respect for those guys: they take all the crap and don't ask for anything in return. it's amazing.

I'm on a couple Mozilla lists, and some of the stuff that gets posted is incredibly annoying/pushy/whiny/whatever.

@strugee yes, people can be annoying. And they sometimes have incredible entitlement issues.

@FaheemMitha yeah. on SE too - the people that basically assume that we are all paid to do their bidding.

@strugee Something like that, yes. Except they know perfectly well we are not.

it's nice to see someone who completely gives the devs the respect they deserve (as I'm sure you do, when you do write to lists).

@strugee I'm sure lots of people are fine. It is just the occasional jerk.

I read Debian bug reports all the time. The vast majority of time people filing bug reports are polite and professional.

Of course Debian users aren't exactly average...

SO etc has rather lower filters.

@FaheemMitha yeah, it may be that Mozilla is more popular/public. you can't really see it anymore, because the lists are moderated due to this kind of stuff. but a year ago you'd see entitled idiots demanding things not all the time, but with noticeable frequency

@strugee Right.

but the Debian people are nice enough.

except maybe when talking about init systems

@strugee I don't know if I'd go that far. My point was just that Debian bug reporters are quite reasonable/professional in general. Most of them are tech people like us. They're the people who use Debian. Otherwise they go off and use Ubuntu or something.

Of course, there is always the occasional nutcase.

Debian itself has lots of issues. As you can discover by reading the mls. The developers seem to spend a lot of time quarreling with each other. Though it is probably a minority of them.

@FaheemMitha exactly. Debian probably avoids a lot of bs because of Ubuntu. and if you go on an Arch mailing list, well... I've been subscribed to a couple sometime between 6 months and a year, and I can't name any time someone was super entitled. rude, yes. but not entitled.

@FaheemMitha heh :)

@strugee Arch is what you use, right? Yes, Ubuntu might filter off a lot of people that would be a net negative to the project.

@FaheemMitha yes. Parabola on one of my boxes, and I'm planning to convert more. but mostly I use Arch (except for one Debian Sid box that I've been meaning to switch to, you guessed it, Arch)

@strugee Ok. There are a number of reasons I use Debian. One of them is that they have lots of software. How does Arch compare?

@FaheemMitha I've never run into something that I couldn't get ahold of. all of the popular stuff is in the official repos, like Firefox, LibreOffice, GNOME, etc...

anything else you can generally find in the AUR (Arch User Repository). the AUR is basically an online collection of PKGBUILDs, which define how to create packages for use with pacman (Arch's package manager, <3).

@strugee OK. The issue is with less popular stuff.

Particularly scientific stuff. And there are a fair number of people who make unofficial packages.

think of the AUR as like build-from-source PPAs.

@strugee Arch is a source-based distribution?

Like Gentoo?

@FaheemMitha no, the main repos are binary (although it is extremely trivial to build from source). packages in the AUR are build-from source, almost always.

there is a third-party repo that contains binary AUR packages, but it's widely derided

@strugee Sure, all packages are built from source. But source-based means that the system is set up so that you can take any package source and build it on your version.

In other words, the preferred distribution format is source, rather than binary. As is the case with Debian for example.

Anyway, I'm off to lunch. See you later.

basically, the official Arch repos are maintained by distro developers. those packages are binary, but you can easily acquire the files necessary to replicate a source build of the system.

bye!

the sad reality is that because of school, I spend more of my time in Cygwin instead of a real system.

@FaheemMitha I know you're at lunch, but when you get back, wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ABS_FAQ should illuminate some of this for you. see also wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_User_Repository for the AUR

@strugee That's a shame. Windows?

@strugee Thanks.

@FaheemMitha yep. I have the most screwed up laptop of all time. wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dell_XPS_13

(page created by yours truly)

Has anyone here, used Chrome OS yet?

mostly, at least

@strugee Messed up on Windows or on Arch?

@user41631 I repeat: ask your question. _just ask your question_. we cannot help you later if you never state your problem.

@strugee lol, you are still here?

@FaheemMitha no I mean, the laptop's factory configuration is damn impossible to work with.

@strugee if i will ask, i will get downvotes

@user41631 I keep a background tab open.

@strugee So, you have to change the configuration? Or are there problems with that?

@user41631 Why would you get downvotes? In any case, I would not worry about that. I'd just focus on asking your question and getting it answered. Asking here is not likely to help you. There are only a handful of people here.

@user41631 I meant just say your question in the chatroom. but here's a clue: if you think your question will get downvotes, don't post it. SE isn't the right place for you to ask.

okay

@user41631 right, you could just ask your question here too.

@FaheemMitha Has anyone here, used Chrome OS yet?

i am downloading it but i only have 512 mb ram

@FaheemMitha here's the tl;dr: all four primary MBR partitions are filled, so you can't install GNU/Linux without messing with the partitioning scheme. here's the catch: if you change anything in the partition scheme, the Windows boot process will break. anything.

@user41631 Is that your question?

@FaheemMitha yes

@strugee Eww. Nasty.

@user41631 I don't understand how that can be your question. Suppose I say yes. Then what?

no problem, right? I'll just create a bootable USB. but it turns out that my preference in partition tables, GPT, doesn't work either. the BIOS refuses to boot a GPT drive, even though I've set up legacy compatibility and have successfully booted the drive on another BIOS system.

@FaheemMitha i will then ask you how is it? its system requrements, ram usage tec.]

@FaheemMitha if you ever see me ask how to chainload GRUB on a GPT drive from GRUB on an MBR, that's the reason.

@strugee is a Windows reinstall an option?

@FaheemMitha good question. probably not.

@user41631 Ok. Sounds like SE is probably not the place to ask this. Maybe a chat forum type place.

@strugee Personally I'd investigate that possibility before writing it off. You didn't check out the laptop before buying it? Or did you inherit it?

I actually hate this laptop. it's so terrible that every 4 months or so, the NT driver for one of the internal USB hubs will get an update which won't work and I have to force a rollback

@strugee Yes, that sounds bad. I'm sorry.

okay

@FaheemMitha it's the school-recommended laptop. free support for as long as I'm at the school, etc.

@strugee If they don't require it, I'd get something else, personally. Unfortunate, in any case.

@FaheemMitha hah, thanks. I deal with it by just spending all my time in Cygwin (and Cygwin's Emacs), LibreOffice and Firefox. I don't deal with the Windows aspect of it a ton.

@FaheemMitha they don't. my parents do :P

@strugee Ok.

I'm most likely complaining too much; I should stop

@strugee Oh, I see. It was foisted on you? I suppose you've told them you hate it?

@strugee HELP! i am never okay with one linux, i always try to do something new! It wastes a lot of time help! please help! becauese of this, my time is wasted! help!

@FaheemMitha I did. it's the first Windows machine I've had in a long while and I lobbied heavily against it.

@strugee Everyone complains about hardware. It's Ok. Though if that is the worst thing going on for you, I'd say you are doing pretty well. :-)

@strugee Being a minor is a drag.

@FaheemMitha this is true. although my parents are really supportive of the stuff I do. I even get to go to conferences

@strugee do you have a desktop?

@strugee That's nice.

@strugee help

@FaheemMitha an iMac at my dad's. I love desktops. the screen real estate is to die for

@FaheemMitha you?

@strugee Ok. I'd get my own Linux desktop if possible. Much better experience than a laptop, personally.

@strugee I have a desktop/workstation. I run Debian on it.

My current version is about 6 months old. My previous motherboard died June 2013.

@FaheemMitha yeah. laptops are just... eh. I love Mac hardware in general but wireless and graphics card support are abysmal, because it's inevitably Broadcom and Nvidia

@FaheemMitha RIP

@FaheemMitha HELP! i am never okay with one linux, i always try to do something new! It wastes a lot of time help! please help! becauese of this, my time is wasted! help!

@user41631 Oh, good grief.

What do you want, exactly?

@FaheemMitha a good linux which works flawlessly on 512mb ram

@user41631 Not sure. 512 Mb is not that much.

Can't you just get more RAM?

@user41631 your problem isn't distro. it's DE. try LXDE and if that doesn't work, try no desktop environment, just a window manager. if you can't deal with just a window manager, you're screwed. give up and buy some more RAM.

no, dad has recently bought a new cd drive for it. and he is not gonna buy a new RAM for 1 year. (I am poor)

@strugee Can you dualboot the imac? Use something else on it?

@strugee i use lxde i mean lubuntu . 90mb is used out of 512mb and usually, i am out of ram while using google chrome thats why i am unhappy

@FaheemMitha ^

@user41631 It does sound like you need more ram. And Chrome is not exactly light on memory.

@FaheemMitha yep.

@FaheemMitha is there any OS that uses less than 50mb ram so that at least 450mb is left for me or any graphocs degradation or anythign else?

@user41631 There might be custom distros which use small amounts of ram, but 50mb is excessively low.

I suggest you look around. I don't know a thing about such issues.

@FaheemMitha which browser uses the least amount of ram, can you tell

?

@FaheemMitha Usually, My PC hangs while searching for images on google. while scrolling through images lubuntu hangs

@user41631 Of modern graphical browsers, no idea. links for example probably uses very little, but it is quite useless on the modern web.

similarly w3m etc.

@FaheemMitha so my last question is, should i continue downloading chrome os?

@user41631 Sorry, I have no idea. Why not give it a try?

No i think i should n't. why wqasting time and bandwidth on this chromium stuff. people always say that it sis the worst os ever

@user41631 Firefox uses less RAM than Chrome. but it will be impossible to find a browser that doesn't use a ton of memory.

@strugee okay :)

@strugee So, are you currently running Arch on this machine?

@user41631 if you are up to it you could try using a barebones distro like Arch or Gentoo. but for god's sake, do the real solution to this problem and buy more RAM.

@strugee Wrong reply. :-)

@FaheemMitha sadly, "this machine" was the aforementioned school computer about 5 minutes ago, and is now an iPad that I got before I got back into the free software movement (meaning, before I started abhoring Apple mobile products)

@FaheemMitha shifty eyes what are you talking about?

@strugee You replied to me rather than user41631. But you fixed it.

@strugee okay, i will buy some more but dad will buy it after 5-8 months! till his loans get over

@FaheemMitha it was a joke :)

@strugee Ok.

stupid textual communication

@strugee you're up late. it must be past 1 am where you are.

@user41631 I must say, though, I'm very impressed that you managed to find Chromium binaries for Windows. I looked for those on chromium.org and couldn't find any

lol

@FaheemMitha yep. good guess; it's past 12. I've been doing homework because of the superbowl. and that's my cue to go... goodnight!

@strugee you're two years elder than me?

@user41631 I am if you're 13

lol

yes i'm

@strugee Have a good night.

@FaheemMitha I just sent of a patch to the coreutils mailing list using -z/--zero like sort does.

@Anthon Good work. Let us know what they say.

Maybe you'll hear back from Stallman giving you some wacky reason they can't apply it. He's quite conservative.

@FaheemMitha some people that ask on AU don't know :(

@Braiam You should tell them. :-)

@Braiam i see you are in the Dominican Republic. You share the island of Hispaniola with Haiti, right? How are conditions in the Dominican Republic? I believe in Haiti it is quite terrible.

@FaheemMitha Got declined on the basis of ls output is for human consumption, as slm already had digged up. At least the way I proposed to do this is they way they would do it if they did.

lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/2014-02/msg00005.html

It was worth a try, and fun to figure out.

@Anthon Well, you can add an answer now. :-) That was a fast response.

I personally think it is a mistake to leave out this functionality.

well, I always have seen that you should not parse ls output

@Braiam meaning?

but meh, you can have the patch around

You should add an answer - you got a reply from the horse's mouth. So to speak.

I'd also add the patch to the answer. Make sure to mention which version you are patching against.

So you don't agree with their decision either?

@Anthon Specify the git hash you applied it against.

You could also request he add it to the rejected features list.

@FaheemMitha was just one response and wasn't a total negation (70:30) so it might have oportunity

@Braiam Not sure what you mean. You mean someone else might add it?

@FaheemMitha git hash included + date

@Anthon Great.

The GNU maintainers are a pretty stable bunch. Also, they tend to think alike. Groupthink.

@Anthon - I liken the lack of that switch to what I called defensive programming or defensive design. This is where you don't want users to use your s/w in "bad" ways so you intentionally leave conveniences out or hobble it so as to not allow them to do things with your s/w you don't want them to do. I can't say I disagree with the logic of leaving it out.

@Anthon - since your thread was relevant to my A I added it towards the top, hope you don't mind, if it's an issue let me know and I can roll it out.

@slm no problem to include, I pointed to it in my answer as well.

@Anthon - OK thanks. The effort is appreciated, it's always nice to have actual answers and not just conjecture 8-)

@slm The GNU project is supposed to be about user freedom, including the freedom to use the software in ways you do not approve of. :-)

I'm with anthon on this. It looks like a reasonable and useful thing to include, and will not lead to software Armageddon as far as I can see.

I think we've all been bitten trying to parse ls.

That's the power of open source, he was able to patch it and we can maintain our own fork if we so choose. If it catches on then that's another method for getting changes back into the core.

@slm Who is "we"?

any group that wants to maintain this sep.

hey

Does anyone know here about RILD ?

@Anthon well done! Thanks for the effort. I haven't tried this yet but it sounds great. Perhaps we can call it lz :)