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01:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

1:31 AM
PSA: GitHub will deprecate status.github.com and roll out githubstatus.com on Mar. 3rd twitter.com/githubstatus/status/1100846088117014528
Also PSA, I've installed Cinnamon in VM just to test one of my indicators, and guess what ? It does work. And I also got to fix a minor annoying bug that was there for couple years.
1:52 AM
"Java and JavaScript are similar, like Car and Carpet" XD Found on one facebook page just now
2:17 AM
A: insert EOF statement before the last line of file

filbrandenYou can use ex (which is a mode of the vi editor) to accomplish this. You can use the :read command to insert the contents into the file. That command takes a filename, but you can use the /dev/stdin pseudo-device to read from standard input, which allows you to use a <<EOF marker. The :read co...

I love that he beat me to an ed answer
Sigh ... Meanwhile OP didn't even bother responding to my comment. I should drown my sorrows in milk tea
I'd be with you, but I'd have to split them up -- milk XOR tea, not together
So you're probably not a fan of Asian beverages then :)
2:25 AM
can't say I've tried many, unless you count hot tea
That kinda counts, although a lot of teas in the west aren't exactly the same as in Asia. Black tea is actually called red tea in China, IIRC, and black tea by Chinese standard would be Pu'Er type
As for milk tea I've mentioned, it's common beverage mixed with sweet flavors and highly concentrated, sold in shops/cafes
is it aka "bubble tea"?
Pretty much, yeah. Although you don't have to add bubble ( aka boba ) to it. There's other fillings
well, enjoy :) I'll settle for a nice glass of H2O and head to bed
Heh, sleep well !
Sometimes I don't understand how human interaction even works O_o
7 hours later…
9:27 AM
@Kusalananda Eval in lots of languages involves feeding a string to be executed. Not a great thing. With the notable exception of the Lisp family, which is actually sanely designed.
There might be other examples, but I don't know of them.
It's not the eval that is "evil", it's the lack of sanity checking of its arguments.
@Kusalananda It's really all about sucky languages. The heritage of ALGOL.
10:06 AM
I must be missing something. OP's apt complains about postinst script. However their trace of the script shows exit 0 paste.ubuntu.com/p/HK4ybgtjdW
@SergiyKolodyazhnyy Question link?
Q: Problem in Kubuntu while installing files.... How to solve? E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

Saugat Baralsudo apt install adobe-flashplugin Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done adobe-flashplugin is already the newest version (1:20190212.1-0ubuntu0.18.10.1). 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. 1 not fully installed ...

@SergiyKolodyazhnyy Hmm, EFI. A bit outside my expertise. I've worked with it a little bit a couple of years ago. Anthony could probably answer that one.
@FaheemMitha Nah, if you read the error message they got there was something with the postinst shell script. Package itself was installed OK, probably, but now failed postinst script messes up with OP's other installations
so not EFI problem, I think
@SergiyKolodyazhnyy Yes, I know. There was a problem with grub install. In the post-inst script.
@SaugatBaral Post the entire post-inst script at the bottom of your question, please. Not in comments. — Faheem Mitha 1 min ago
10:16 AM
Hopefully that'll reveal something
1 hour later…
11:21 AM
@FaheemMitha You are calling C and a whole lot of other languages "sucky" there...
2 hours later…
1:21 PM
@Kusalananda Oh yes, I am.
2:19 PM
@Kusalananda @FaheemMitha hates all languages that aren't TeX
3:07 PM
@Jesse_b Inaccurate.
But I'm not especially fond of the Algol family, and the extent to which they have taken over computing. They're the Microsoft of computer languages.
3:30 PM
@FaheemMitha =)
Actually, I don't know if anyone actually likes TeX. Many of us use it, because it's the only game in town. It's either that or some horrible word processor.
Possibly with a proprietary binary format.
TeX has been around since the 1970s, but still has no significant competition on it's home turf, mathematical computer typesetting with a free markup language. In fact, it doesn't really have much competition when it comes to free computer typsetting, period.
I mean, there is troff/groff.
3:47 PM
I don't mind microsoft word or google docs
I think nothing has come around to replace it because a replacement is not needed
@Jesse_b Ugh and ugh.
@Jesse_b Nothing has come around to replace what?
@FaheemMitha tex
@Jesse_b Ah. Do or have you ever used it yourself?
@FaheemMitha I have not, no need for it
I don't think TeX is perfect or irreplaceable or anything. And one can certainly imagine something better.
But TeX exists, and alternatives don't.
It's pretty impressive that Knuth could produce a working system like that, especially mostly singlehanded (as far as I know).
I doubt many people could do that.
3:53 PM
@FaheemMitha I think there just isn't a big enough market to warrant a replacement
There's also Lout, but that's not actively developed.
@Jesse_b I think there is a big market, but it's mostly already served by TeX.
Lots of people use TeX.
@FaheemMitha That's relative. It's probably less than 1% of all people for sure
@Jesse_b Everything is relative. It's still a lot of people.
A major problem with TeX is that's a nightmare to program. At least, in my opinion.
@FaheemMitha For almost all things a normal word processor would be more efficient, for a small subset of things tex seems to be the thing to use
@Jesse_b You can do a lot of things with TeX you can only dream of in a word processor. But for maximum effectives, you do need to be able to program TeX. See previous comment.
I use it for everything.
3:57 PM
@FaheemMitha You can do everything most people need to do with a normal word processor, the things you cannot do are rarely needed by the average person
If you want to change or fix something, it can be quite time-consuming, unless one is a real whiz. But once things are working, they keep working.
@Jesse_b Define average and most. :-)
If a missing feature were desired enough by the general public it would be added to one of the big names (microsoft, google, openoffice, etc)
@Jesse_b It's not a matter of features, it's a difference in kind. A programmable system like TeX/LaTeX is fundamentally different in nature than a word processor.
@FaheemMitha Most (greater than 75% conservatively) people have no need to write mathematical functions. Simply being able to write text is all we require, bullet points, bold text, and headings are nice but not even necessary
@Jesse_b You can do a lot of things other than mathematics with TeX.
4:00 PM
You can do a lot of things with the microsoft office suite
I will hand it to microsoft they are pretty on point with office. It's definitely better than google's offering and any others I've used
That just happens to be a big market for TeX, because it's a relatively demanding application of typesetting, and for the most part the proprietary systems aren't up to the job. And the ones that are, are very expensive, and possibly use proprietary formats.
@Jesse_b No doubt. But I suspect that you aren't aware what TeX and friends can do.
@FaheemMitha I believe it's powerful but I just don't think it's worth it for most people. Unless you really have a need for all those features which I would wager most people don't, the difficulty seems to outweigh the benefits
Hell many users can't even wrap their head around microsoft office and I find that to be mostly intuitive
@Jesse_b It's not exactly about features. Would you tell people - use Perl because it has these features (for example)? Or those shell languages you folks love?
@FaheemMitha Well features as in capabilities
Yes using perl or shell has more capabilities than any off the shelf software you might be using but it also requires you learn those languages, if off the shelf software gets you where you need to be there is no incentive to learn a language
What are shell languages ?
Bonjour Everyone
@Jesse_b @FaheemMitha
4:15 PM
@Jesse_b Where you want to go isn't static. Desires can change. Especially if you figure out there are all those other places you can go.
@PrabhjotSingh Hey
@FaheemMitha How are you doing ?
@PrabhjotSingh Ok. I have a cold. Not usually an issue in itself, but it tends to lead to bronchial issues.
@FaheemMitha Bronchial issues ? How do you know ?
@PrabhjotSingh I don't understand the question. How do I know what?
Cold is a very common problem.
4:18 PM
@PrabhjotSingh Yes, the common cold is common.
@Jesse_b Also, TeX output looks very good. That's not unimportant.
@FaheemMitha You once mentioned you used prednisone, a steroid.
I remember reading somewhere (I forget where) someone writing that math written in LaTeX looks so good that you believe it's true.
@PrabhjotSingh Only a couple of times in my life. Once in Chicago. Once more recently. 2017, I believe.
@FaheemMitha what are shell languages ?
@PrabhjotSingh Languages like bash.
@FaheemMitha Contagious, TeX is very contagious and pleasing, imo.
4:22 PM
@PrabhjotSingh Contagious?
@FaheemMitha Yes, contagious.
@PrabhjotSingh That means, basically, infectious.
@FaheemMitha You mention this many times. I once tried to write a file in TeX. I failed. But I now trying to learn it . So contagious. But if you ask me what is grace, I would say .tex
@PrabhjotSingh I don't think that's quite the right word.
@FaheemMitha Agreed. You could pardon a non-native.
And help in Punjabi.
4:31 PM
@PrabhjotSingh wat up
@FaheemMitha Yeah and I'm sure knowing tex makes a lot of things better but I think most people wouldn't be pushed to learn it until they encounter a problem that can only be solved with tex
Which I think would be rare
@Jesse_b Well, it depends if you want to work with typography. Lots of people don't. They just want to type something, preferably as fast as possible.
Knowing shell has been extremely beneficial for me but I didn't even know how beneficial it could be until after I started learning it. When there was software that didn't have a feature I desired I just lived with it and/or found a less than ideal workaround
Fatal fontspec error: "cannot-use-pdftex". Fontspec package requires either Xetex or LuaTeX. @FaheemMitha tex.stackexchange.com/questions/315617/…
Answer doesn't help may be because he is a Windows user.
@Jesse_b Well, yes, that's my point. The first sentence, that is. Though admittedly typography has a smaller domain than a general computer language.
@Jesse_b I am good , free today.
How about you ?
4:36 PM
@PrabhjotSingh I'm doing pretty well
@PrabhjotSingh If the answer doesn't help, ask another question.
@Jesse_b TeX isn't contagious ?
I managed to typeset Hindi once. I still have those files.
But the emacs support was quite buggy. I should have reported it, but didn't. I forget how the TeX itself was.
@PrabhjotSingh Not for me, I must have gotten a tex vaccine :p. I just don't see how it would help me in my daily life.
@PrabhjotSingh You could also ask in chat, though very specific questions about Indian languages probably won't get a response.
@Jesse_b You can use it to write documents.
4:40 PM
@FaheemMitha Most of the documents I write are either in github markdown or on my companies wiki page
@FaheemMitha You can see that in LaTeX and friends
@Jesse_b what are shell languages, please tell me. awk, Ed, sed or ?
@PrabhjotSingh shell, korn shell, bash, ksh, etc
I guess it would be defined as any language that can also serve as a command interpreter
Which would probably also mean that powershell and cmd are shell languages
gets coat and ducks
cmd of Windows ?
I like bash cuz I bashed about my friends in school many times. @Jesse_b
@Jesse_b Is it Engrish?
5:06 PM
@PrabhjotSingh See what?
@Jesse_b Markdown is very basic.
@FaheemMitha So are documents
@Jesse_b Depends on the document.
The more complex you make a document the less likely it is to be read
@Jesse_b Actually, there's a lot of stuff that goes into attractive typsetting.
Though mostly invisible to the casual user.
@Jesse_b A document make require a lot of stuff to make it. That doesn't mean it has to look complex.
in TeX, LaTeX and Friends, 31 mins ago, by Prabhjot Singh
@DavidCarlisle Fatal fontspec error: "cannot-use-pdftex". Fontspec package requires either Xetex or LuaTeX.
Your brother can't write his own language.
5:10 PM
One area in which TeX can be used is multilingual stuff. I don't even want to think how that would do that in a word processor. Also, anytime you want to programmatically generate a document.
@PrabhjotSingh Oh, you mean the chat room. And I see David is answering your questions.
Well, trying to, at any rate. I don't know how he finds the time/energy.
@Jesse_b If you try once LaTeX, You would see grace in documents.
@PrabhjotSingh Interesting phrase.
@FaheemMitha Today very first time I created tables. Simple and complex. And I can say beauty is within us. so we can create it.
@PrabhjotSingh You probably want to use Emacs. It's not perfect, but most other options I can think of are worse.
I mean, Emacs to write LaTeX.
@PrabhjotSingh That's poetic.
@PrabhjotSingh I've used LaTeX extensively in the past (writing linear algebra papers). I still think troff is superior for typesetting plain text... As with all things Unix, it's simple and produces output in the formats I care about.
5:14 PM
One could argue that beauty was within Donald Knuth. It's his typesetting. :-)
@Kusalananda Blasphemy.
I think we can all agree ed is the superior tool for plain text
@FaheemMitha Well, it was you who said C was a bad language.
@Kusalananda I see. Getting a bit of your own back, eh? :-)
@FaheemMitha I use emacs and gedit both. I use emacs so I knew that there is AucTex.
@FaheemMitha Something like that, yes.
5:16 PM
@PrabhjotSingh yes, AUCTeX can have weird bugs, and the Debian maintainer is kind of useless. But it's the main thing people use.
Also, AUCTeX developers do hang out on TeX SE. At least one of them. I once asked a question on TeX SE, and he added a feature to AUCTeX in response. Which was helpful of him.
Sigh. Yes, I see it's still Salvetti.
I now use the AUCTeX from elpa, because I had problems with the Debian package.
And, like I said, the maintainer is useless.
I can't find any motivation today (n)
@Jesse_b Motivation for what?
@Jesse_b Answer questions on U&L instead?
5:23 PM
@FaheemMitha Not much interesting there either unless you go digging at older questions.
@Kusalananda There are other sites. Stack Overflow, for example.
@FaheemMitha No there isn't.
Fake news.
@Kusalananda And coming from you, that's a surprising thing to say.
@Kusalananda Huh?
U&L probably isn't that interesting at any time, unless you are a shell addict.
5:25 PM
I just rarely go over there nowadays.
Well, ancient Unix tools addict.
Well, that's me.
Stuff that was new and hip in the 1970s.
@Kusalananda You must have watched Trump's video.
I was new in the 1970s...
@PrabhjotSingh ?
5:26 PM
I think there is much love here for the shell. Maybe you folks should all adopt turtles. Or tortoises.
@Kusalananda You said Fake News.
@PrabhjotSingh Ah, yes. If you deny something often enough, it goes away. Well known, eh, fact?
@Kusalananda Btw God Morgon.
@PrabhjotSingh God morgon till dig med!
Or rather, kväll.
5:28 PM
Ah, yes. But I thought it was Morgen.
I think that's German.
Google trasnlate says You Too.
@Kusalananda Oh, ok. Is Morgon Swedish then?
It is
In English, "Morgon" sounds like some Lord of the Rings name.
Some cousin of Morgoth or something.
5:33 PM
@FaheemMitha @Jesse_b How i know which fonts I have in my computer?
@PrabhjotSingh Why do you need to know? And it depends on the OS.
in TeX, LaTeX and Friends, 3 mins ago, by David Carlisle
@PrabhjotSingh Ok so do you know a font that you do have?
@PrabhjotSingh Hmm. What are you trying to do again? Let me take a look at TeX Chat. One sec.
Well, David suggested the lohit font, So use that, perhaps. Are you typesetting Punjabi?
apt-cache search lohit shows a bunch of stuff. I'd go with
> fonts-guru - Meta package to install all Punjabi fonts
Why guru, I wonder?
@FaheemMitha Yes, Trying to write punjabi.
@FaheemMitha How can i install font.
@FaheemMitha Gurmukhi is punjabi script.
@PrabhjotSingh Ok
@PrabhjotSingh apt-get install fonts-guru
5:45 PM
@FaheemMitha apt-get? am using Mint today(old machine). How do you know that?
@PrabhjotSingh How do I know what?
@FaheemMitha It could have been pacman -Sy or dnf. apt So precise. How?
@PrabhjotSingh I'm not following. Mint is a Debian derivative. So apt-get install ... should work.
Apt is at the top of the Debian packaging system, the installation/maintenance end, that is. Though apt install should also work.
Well, or a Ubuntu derivative.
Apparently Sikhs had these people called Gurus. Though, it seems, not recently.
6:03 PM
@FaheemMitha Guru means Teacher.
in Room for Fabby and Faheem and Rui, Feb 17 at 18:37, by Prabhjot Singh
No, I converted into athesism ten years back.
6:20 PM
@PrabhjotSingh Ok.
@FaheemMitha People in Pakistani Punjab write punjabi in Shahmukhi script..
Shahmukhi alphabet - Wikipedia
@PrabhjotSingh Two different alphabets? Yikes.
@FaheemMitha Yes, One language. two scripts. 11 dialects.
@PrabhjotSingh That's a lot of variation.
@FaheemMitha People living in urban areas sometimes find it hard to understand people in villages.
6:27 PM
@PrabhjotSingh Communication can be a problem everywhere.
Actually, if there is one things humans are good at, it's miscommunicating.
@FaheemMitha miscommunication is a human thing, what about disinformation?
Arguing with some twit about automation
he won't admit that machinery is automation lol
6:47 PM
@PrabhjotSingh That too.
@Jesse_b In Real Life?
@FaheemMitha on facebook lol
@Jesse_b Well, it's Facebook. What do you expect? And what are you doing there, anyway?
It's the digital equivalent of a leper colony.
@FaheemMitha arguing with twits >.>
@Jesse_b You can't find twits somewhere else? You should look for local twits.
@Jesse_b If You are arguing on Facebook, then he is right. :-p
6:52 PM
yeah I work with a bunch, I'm just honing my skills for them
Best wishes to you.
"The printing press isn't automation because a human still needs to start it"
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
7:13 PM
Actually, I didn't know Facebook has chat functionality.
7:29 PM
@Jesse_b Good. When articles would be written, printed and read by machines only, then machinery would be automation. This Noble laureate could make entire mankind unemployed.
@PrabhjotSingh =) I think AI is unachievable
@Jesse_b Well, no absolutely. But ask people who have been laid off because of it . And Artificial intelligence can't be match for stupidity. Einstein
@PrabhjotSingh My argument is that automation has been eliminating jobs for thousands of years, it's nothing new and every generation thinks their version of automation will be the final straw
It's never the case
@Jesse_b Spielberg gave this answer in Minority report.
People are worried about self driving cars eliminating truck driving jobs, but trucks are an earlier form of automation that eliminated millions of jobs in their day
7:37 PM
@Jesse_b Yes, But you see with greater automation greater is centralization of power in world
7:54 PM
@Jesse_b Agreed, Industrial revolution destroyed billions of jobs in Asia and created much less newer jobs in Europe. People like Adam Smith support this fact.
But jobless growth has been phenomenal in West in recent years.
Meh, there are plenty of jobs. People just don't seem to want them
But many are not quality jobs. And many are without dignity.
All the trade jobs are in very high demand
Trade jobs?
I think being an electrician, plumber, welder, mechanic, etc are quality jobs and would have dignity if we hadn't drilled college as a necessity into people's minds
welder may be a bad example as that job is being increasingly automated but the rest of them aren't going away anytime soon
7:59 PM
But these jobs are limited here
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