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3:02 AM
@derobert ah, well. I think quodlibet.readthedocs.io/en/latest/guide/… might apply, though.
 
 
12 hours later…
3:02 PM
I just found an old answer that helped me and almost forgot to upvote it :( shame on me
 
@Jesse_b as penance, go forth and process the close queue
 
@StephenKitt backs away slowly
heh I'll go through some in a bit, got some work to do and I'm on a roll
 
@Jesse_b I wasn’t being really serious, I was trying to find something that might be some sort of punishment ;-)
I find the close queue really tedious
 
It wasn't that bad until @JeffSchaller and @Kusalananda became mods, I rarely used to see it over like 25-30 items but now it seems to be 100+ every day
 
Yeah, Jeff said he didn’t like hammering questions closed now that he wields the Hammer of ... wait ... Thor? no ... Terdon? ah, close
 
3:11 PM
Yeah, I'm not saying they are slacking now. I think it was even mentioned that the mods should spend less time on the close vote queue as the system was setup in a manner that users are supposed to be the ones that process it in a democratic way...or some other words that describe that better than I can
 
That rings a bell
 
And we've also encouraged flagging bad quality questions, if I don't mis-remember, or at least rude comments. I agree that the close-queue is too long.
And yes, mods should leave the review queues for the users more often than when they were not mods, or at least not go stomping on every Q/A that we see in there (because we might be wrong, and users often think they are being oppressed if they get their answer or question deleted by a mod).
We, unfortunately sometimes, have golden hammers in every topic.
But we, and especially @JeffSchaller I believe, do look at it.
 
it doesn't seem safe to rely on srand() to generate the current time in seconds
 
@Jesse_b Huh?
 
@Kusalananda yes, and we’re not (at least, I’m not) saying the mods should spend more time on it ;-)
 
3:20 PM
@Kusalananda I'm running the following on a batch of smartos nodes (basically solaris):
kstat -n system_misc | awk '/boot_time/{print srand()-$2}'
 
@Kusalananda I keep an eye on things, but I do tend to avoid the close-queue because of the hammer. I tend to VTC egregious stuff from the main page(s)
 
Which should print the uptime of the machine in seconds, and works for about half of them
the other half it seems srand() is generating an actual random number and therefore it's returning a negative value
 
@Jesse_b But srand() seeds the random generator... (and returns the previous seed).
 
@Kusalananda yeah but what does it consider the previous seed? Does it reset for each awk command, for each shell session?
 
@Jesse_b Set the seed value for rand to expr or use the time of day if expr is omitted. The previous seed value shall be returned. (source)
 
3:22 PM
because the command is being run in a new shell process each time I run it
 
@Jesse_b I mean, if you want to get a random number, you may want to consider calling rand().
 
I don't, I want the current time in seconds
 
@Jesse_b it’s seeded to 1 by default in each process
 
No, systime() gives the current times as a Unix timestamp.
 
$ nawk 'BEGIN{print systime()}'
nawk: calling undefined function systime
 source line number 1
 
3:24 PM
Ah, nawk.
 
$ kstat -n system_misc | nawk -v d=$(date +%s) '/boot_time/{print d-$2}'
2489540
That works ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@Jesse_b Yeah, I think that's a fair bit safer than relying on srand() doing the "right thing".
 
anyway sorry I derailed the convo
Thanks for the help
@Kusalananda That's what I was thinking, if you have a gold linux and bash badge you can gold hammer almost any question
 
@Jesse_b yes, and for the same reason those are the most common gold badges
15 for , 7 for
Ah, has 8, and also has 7
 
The rarest one I have is :-)
I'm not sure how that happened.
 
3:32 PM
I like my badge ;-)
 
> 4,953 Answers
 
@StephenKitt Well, you can definitely claim that as your own.
 
I'm only 120 upvotes away from bash lol
 
@Jesse_b Wait, "I'll help you!"
 
solidly in the top spot at unix.stackexchange.com/tags/apt/topusers -- it's funny about #2 & #3 having only 2 & 3 answers, respectively, in that tag -- just massively up-voted A's
 
3:35 PM
Hmmm... someone did that to me a while a go... no names...
 
@Kusalananda I mean you did earn it
 
I find it weird how one can end up with skewed badges with a few answers with massive scores — for example, I’m 39 answers away from , so I could just go and write 39 random answers and get the gold badge...
 
I'll get there eventually
 
@Jesse_b Oh, you definitely will.
 
@StephenKitt Do you get a point just for writing an answer or does it need an upvote?
 
3:37 PM
@Jesse_b I think the badge is quality and quantity, so unless his answers got downvoted substantially, it's all coasting from here
 
@Jesse_b AFAICT you only need to write the answer. Perhaps downvoted answers don’t count, but 0-score answers do count in the answer count.
 
(he's 288 points over 1k in rep in that tag)
 
Oh yeah answer count. I had 200 bash answers like a year ago but my score was far too low
tells you something about my quality :p
 
@Jesse_b I'm thinking of that 100k rep thing. Got delayed by a day or so it did.
 
On Retrocomputing I have high enough upvote scores to just go for gold in two tags, even though I don’t have the corresponding silver badge yet!
 
3:40 PM
@Jesse_b oh, I have a ton of those -- enough answers, but not enough points
aix: 90/100 score, 77/20 answers :o
doesn't help that there are only about 3 AIX users on the site
 
@JeffSchaller would-be comedians might say that “on the site” could be removed from that sentence
 
@StephenKitt they wouldn't be too many orders of magnitude off, either!
 
@JeffSchaller yeah, probably not, although there are still quite a lot of POWER AIX systems in big companies
POWER systems are niiiiiice
 
they are
 
Looking at some recent builds of mine, there’s one that took 2h39 on amd64, only 1h35 on ppc64el, and 26h29 on mipsel!
 
3:49 PM
wow! that's a serious benchmark difference
what is that, make kitchen_sink?
 
@JeffSchaller building gcc-mingw-w64 (the Windows cross-compiler for Debian).
It involves building GCC four times...
 
I was guessing gcc, but couldn't think of a reason why you'd want to do that
 
The Debian package which takes the longest to build is AFAIK still libreoffice, over 5 hours on amd64, half that on ppc64el.
@JeffSchaller sometimes I wonder...
To build a package which would meet all my users’ requirements (at least, those I’m aware of), I’d need 12 GCC builds and 140GiB of disk space :-/.
 
@StephenKitt O_O
wait, how's it go -- /o\
 
@JeffSchaller that’s the one!
or /OoO\ but that just looks like an astonished fly
 
3:58 PM
I just received a spam message which said in part:
> A ComputerVaultComputerVault performs like a local PC in both the LAN and WAN at less than 1/5th the cost of Azure. ComputerVault is an on-premises
solution while Azure is a public cloud Desktop-as-a-Service.
Is this now a thing?
 
VDI has been a thing for a while
it seems like a huge waste of money
I demo'd a few solutions at two different companies I worked for and both costed way more than buying actual desktops, still required you to buy actual desktops, and did not perform nearly as well as actual desktops
 
@StephenKitt we follow the same people! I was about to pull up the Sunblade picture one
 
@Jesse_b If it requires fast and reliable bandwidth, it probably wouldn't fly here.
Not for me, anyway. Anyway, actual machines do have drawbacks, but they also have considerable advantages. I guess I'm just old-fashioned.
 
@JeffSchaller I follow people who retweet mcc a lot ;-)
 
4:03 PM
@StephenKitt that's my case as well
or they "liked it", whatever the twitter thing is
 
I use a third-party Twitter client so I don’t see other people’s likes in my feed (or ads, or sponsored tweets, or ...)
 
I still don't have a twitter account
 
@StephenKitt Does that kind of setup seem like a good idea to you?
 
@FaheemMitha in an office setting, yes, it makes it easy to walk around and talk to different people
 
It's more convenient but I still don't believe it's cheaper
 
4:17 PM
@StephenKitt And more generally?
 
@FaheemMitha for home use? no
 
@StephenKitt Ok. Did anyone here ever work for Sun?
 
@Jesse_b right, it depends on how expensive the desktops or laptops which are being replaced are, and how expensive it is to administer them all
 
Odd comment:
> In 2004 nobody could use Linux except programmers— you struggled to run office suites on Linux
Have things really changed much since 2004? I remember 2004. It wasn't that different from today. MS Office still doesn't run on free platforms. Nor does most of the other crappy proprietary software that people use.
 
@FaheemMitha They say office suites so I assume they are including libre office and similar
 
4:21 PM
@FaheemMitha 2004 was the year things started really changing in terms of user accessibility on Linux, it’s the year Ubuntu first came out
 
ms office is all cloud based now so it runs on anything with a browser
 
I remember running ... abiword? I think it was, and a TeX front-end. Was all I ever needed. That was in the '90s
 
@JeffSchaller yes, I used Abiword and LyX
 
LyX, that's the one
 
I used WordPerfect for Linux for a short while
I still use LyX ;-)
 
4:24 PM
Wow, LyX is still alive & well!
 
alive at least
 
LyX 2.3.3 released. (June 25, 2019)
Abiword.... not so much: "Oct 20, 2016 - AbiWord 3.0.2 has been released."
 
@StephenKitt We had those Sun Ray thin clients at uni just before I left.
It was nice to be able to work at a desk, then just pull your card out and stick it into another terminal somewhere else and have your desktop appear as you left it.
 
@Kusalananda yes, it’s easier to carry a card around than a laptop
and nicer to work with a proper screen and keyboard
 
@Kusalananda oh dear -- did it remap the keyboard to DVORAK for you?
(next K will say they're fluent in both layouts)
 
4:29 PM
@JeffSchaller No, this time my memory failt me and I trusted the text in the tweet.
@JeffSchaller Probably never will be.
 
@Wildcard that's duplicate albums, this was duplicate (and not fully sorted) people. Though with the other issues... I didn't bother trying to troubleshoot.
 
@StephenKitt It was good for development and writing documents and everything that we did at the department. For running stuff "for reals" we had "the super computer", a DEC Alpha machine in four cabinets running DEC OSF/1 AXP (Tru64), 1 Gb RAM in each cabinet.
 
What's wrong with my cronjob? aaa > results.csv && diff -U 0 results.csv.old || true && cp results.csv results.csv.old it seems the copy happens even if aaa fails
 
@Kusalananda oh nice!
 
Colonel Panic -- there's a creative username! :)
 
4:35 PM
@ColonelPanic having true there ensures that the cp will always happen
there was a good Q&A about that recently
 
@ColonelPanic What are you running your diff on? You use results.csv.old, but it seems to be missing the second file.
 
5
Q: bash chained logical operator execution order, lazy evaluation

Zoltan K.I don't get this: script: WORKDIR/sh/script.sh [ -e filename ] \ && echo filename \ || [ -e ../filename ] \ && echo ../filename \ || { echo 'ERROR: failed to find "filename"' 1>&2 ; exit -1; } output: $ cd WORKDIR/sh $ ./script.sh ../filename $ cd WORKDIR $ sh/scrip...

 
Pardon me miscopied aaa > results.csv && diff -U 0 results.csv.old results.csv || true && cp results.csv results.csv.old
 
ninja'd
Stephen still has my Google-fu
 
4:37 PM
@ColonelPanic You likely want a real if-then-else: if aaa >out; then diff -U0 out.old out; cp out out.old; fi
 
@ColonelPanic && and || are run left-to-right, as that answer @StephenKitt posted says
 
I want the copy to happen regardless of the diff. If aaa fails, I want nothing to happen
 
seconding what Kusalananda said; be kind to your future self and make it obvious :)
 
@ColonelPanic OK, that’s what Kusalananda’s answer will do
 
thanks very much! I'll try if-then-else
 
4:39 PM
@JeffSchaller keeping it nice and warm through the Northern-hemisphere winter months
 
@ColonelPanic Also, if you're running this from cron, you may want to redirect the diff into some file unless you want the diff mailed to you by the cron daemon.
 
What would happen if I put brackets around (diff old new || true) ?
I want the diff mailed to me
 
@ColonelPanic You'll get code taht is difficult to read.
 
@ColonelPanic yours doesn't work because you have a && b || c && d, which first evaluates a, if it fails skips b. Then it runs c (because || could still be true if c works); and c is true), so it runs d
I agree if-then-else is much clearer and obviously works.
 
@StephenKitt I trust you'll use it responsibly -- remember to change the oil every 5,000 miles, take it for walks once a day, and to oil the hinges. Thanks!
 
4:41 PM
It's really just a "if-then". See, the short-circuit way of writing things is just messy.
 
@JeffSchaller 5,000 miles!
 
@StephenKitt I know it's probably a ways from you to Google, so query carefully
 
I’m a professional developer, 5,000 miles of Google-fu is about a day’s work
 
@ColonelPanic You can get it to work like that, with enough subshells, but you're getting code that is less readable and probably slower too.
 
thanks everyone!
 
4:43 PM
@StephenKitt these mechanical Turks don't maintain themselves!
 
although to be fair the stuff I’m working on just now doesn’t touch much that Google knows about
at least, not the Google search engine
 
@ColonelPanic BTW, remember that you can call a shell script from a crontab. You don't have to reduce everything to a one-liner.
 
@JeffSchaller Ok, I personally have something like that... I have a script that logs in to a remote server over ssh and essentially does apt-get upgrade with some checking around it
So worse it has to survive the extra quoting for ssh
 
@derobert as long as your future self won't hate you too much
 
4:55 PM
I eventually gave up maintaining that thing by hand, and wrapped it in a perl script, which turns a reasonably-written multi-line shell script into a monstrosity to pass to ssh :-)
I gave up when I added a host which needs me to wrap the mess with sudo.
 
@StephenKitt I don't see what Ubuntu has to do with much of anything. It was (and is) basically a copy of Debian. A marketing effort, mostly.
 
(For the record, you can nest Perl's \Q and \E)
 
@FaheemMitha in 2004, Ubuntu was vastly simpler to install than pretty much any other distro (Mandrake had a nice installer too), and gave users a default setup which “just worked”, with a fair amount of polish so that users could spend their time using their computers rather than fiddling with them.
 
@StephenKitt I thought they just copied the Debian installer.
 
boot floppies?! d-i wasn't ready yet then, if I remember right
 
5:01 PM
I think Debian's installer was behind the usability curve for a bit; the first distribution I used, potato was pretty terrible. But it got better.
 
@FaheemMitha no.
 
Joey Hess and the big Debian installer project changed things.
@StephenKitt Oh. Ok.
I remember for potato you had to actually specific what drivers to load. Which got tiresome. Still, it was pretty amazing once it was installed.
 
@FaheemMitha that was in 2005, and it’s still not particularly user-friendly
By user-friendly I mean an installer where you have one or two screens of questions, and then it goes and does its thing, reboots and you have a working system.
 
@StephenKitt It's not bad. Could be better, of course. Still doesn't take much to confuse it, last I checked. But I haven't done a new installation in a while.
 
Ubuntu in 2004 wasn’t there yet, but that’s what nice installers are like now. Debian doesn’t have a nice installer.
 
5:03 PM
@StephenKitt The Debian installer does like to ask questions. Mostly without much by way of context.
 
@FaheemMitha yes, and it does so throughout the installation, so you can’t leave it alone to do its thing
 
@StephenKitt I think it's mostly ok. The installer isn't that important, anyway.
@StephenKitt Yes, it keeps popping up questions.
Still trying to debug that effing TeX file from two days ago... Bloody annoying.
 
d-i isn't that bad nowadays, unless you run it on expert mode.
 
geez, did someone declare that today was Flag Day on U&L?
seven whole flags in the queue!
 
I’ve only raised 12 today
 
5:08 PM
@JeffSchaller ooh, are we switching to IPv6 only? :-/
 
@StephenKitt yer just itchin' to become a moderator, aren't you?!
 
@JeffSchaller no, I get enough flak for using gold hammers as it is
I just like giving you lot work
and that sentence probably doesn’t parse correctly if you’re not Scottish
 
from now on, anyone that would like to thank Stephen in a comment needs to keep it to "thanks" so that his own flag auto-deletes it
@StephenKitt My first reading filled in missing words to "I just like giving you (a) lot (of) work" but the second reading parsed it cleanly
 
I should have written “I just like giving you lot a lot of work a lot”
 
though you do have some funny bits of pixels where your apostrophes should be
 
5:11 PM
oh?
I use typographic quotes
 
why would you do that completely reasonable thing?!?
 
@StephenKitt Seems like standard colloquial English to me.
 
Oh - does your brain skip a beat if the quotes aren't balanced?
 
@FaheemMitha ah right, OK
@JeffSchaller yes, a bit like unbalanced parentheses in Lisp
 
More people around today than usual. Did someone declare a party?
 
5:13 PM
It's best to hide curly quotes in code sections where monospaced fonts that don't show them as curly (or make ' curly) can drive someone to madness trying to figure out why a clearly-correct copy & pasted command does not work.
 
@StephenKitt (I can sympathise with you're concerns
 
@FaheemMitha yes, Jeff declared a Flag Day, although we’re still trying to figure out what for
 
@JeffSchaller Eek. Don't do that.
 
@JeffSchaller aaaargh
 
@StephenKitt triple play!
 
5:14 PM
actually that probably qualifies as offensive
 
oh dear, show me the door. Stephen, here's my moderator hat & hammer. Enjoy!
 
@derobert yes, or add non-breaking spaces, or invisible spaces (but SE’s Markdown strips them)
 
@StephenKitt I think it'll leave them in if you use entity numbers/names for them. At least it used to.
 
@derobert aaaaaaaah
 
I sometimes non-trollingly use nonbreaking space in my posts when I notice it's taking a bad line break.
Which of course depends on window size, browser, etc., but at least I fixed one possible bad line break :-/
.... apparently does not work in chat.
 
5:19 PM
oh dear, someone starred my offensive comment
the fault is in our stars, again
 
@JeffSchaller Most offensive is that you didn't take the opportunity to write "you‘re"
 
@derobert Don't give him ideas.
 
@derobert when you're being ignorant, just as well go for 'lazy", too
 
@FaheemMitha At least he doesn't know about lingojam.com/GlitchTextGenerator
 
@derobert He might soon.
 
5:23 PM
Don't tell him.
 
If you’re quoting someone's quotes, best to cover all of the quote"s bases, lest one think «I've been left out!»
@derobert I, indeed, had not heard of Glitch Text, but that does look eerily like ... Zalgo, is it?
 
@JeffSchaller Yes, probably the same thing really, but hopefully you don't know about Zalgo text either. Or «, », or those weird below-text quotes
 
there's a craziness slider!?!?
@derobert thank you, sir! The quotes haven been fixed
 
„ ?
″ ‴ ‶ ‷ ⁗ too! Look like quotes!
 
¿ Ahhh, is it like the upside-down Spanish mark?
 
5:28 PM
❝No clue❟ I don't speak any language that uses them.❞
 
You don't‽
 
〝Nope, I only speak Perl〞
"And sometime shell, or C"
 
echo 'say printf("%s", "That's odd\n");'
 
Presumably somewhere there’s a code-golfing language that uses combining diacritics
 
@JeffSchaller perl -E 🙶say 'odd indeed';🙷
@StephenKitt All scripts are one character long!
 
5:31 PM
Unrecognized character \xF0;
-bash: $'\360\237\231\267': command not found
 
@derobert When did you last do a Debian installation from scratch?
 
@JeffSchaller Turns out I don't speak ⍘Perl⍞ either. And with all the errors @FaheemMitha corrects in my answers, it's clear I don't speak English.
@FaheemMitha Errr, when I set up a buster VM for a build host or testing... hasn't been that long.
 
@derobert Errors? What errors?
@derobert This month?
 
@FaheemMitha No, not this month. Probably a few months ago.
@FaheemMitha Usually an "it's" vs. an "its", or something like that.
 
@derobert Oh. So not that common, then? And non-VM installations?
 
5:36 PM
Haven't done a non-VM one for a while. Probably half a year.
 
```
FROM buster
CMD ["bash"]
```
ok, another quoting failure :)
 
@JeffSchaller yes, the triple backticks don’t work in chat apparently
 
I wonder how common it is to install Debian from scratch. Mostly people just upgrade.
 
Well, when you get a new machine, you have to. Or when you repurpose an old one its often easier to just blow it away and start from scratch.
Though installs I do here aren't the same as running them elsewhere, since I have preseeding set up here. But that's mostly to preseed the correct mirror, http cache, network setup.
 
I'll just drop this here (found at work): ctan.org/pkg/realhats
 
5:43 PM
Ho hum, more drive-by suggested edit reviews (or am I being too pedantic?)
@Kusalananda ah yes I saw that the other day!
 
(Looks like on Sep. 23 I made a test VM to try something, probably the most recent time I installed Debian)
 
@StephenKitt My edit review queue is empty :-(
Oh, that was a link in your text...
 
@Kusalananda two links even
 
I've never heard about ABRT. Some Linux thing?
Do we have lots of questions about it?
 
5:47 PM
@Kusalananda 12 tagged, probably more untagged
it’s a tool used on some Linux distributions to gather information when a program crashes
 
Doesn't seem like it's a popular topic then.
 
The o's out of place, because it's "ooooo, abrt"
 
anyone know why a plaintext email sent by mailx would remove all newlines from the body?
 
Is it being viewed in Outlook? It'll do that
 
@JeffSchaller mac mail app and gmail web portal
 
5:50 PM
@Jesse_b How was the message sent? Also, what Jeff asked.
 
@Kusalananda I'm generating a file and then just doing cat file | mailx -t
 
@Jesse_b well what do you expect? You're shoving a cat down the pipe
 
What does -t do on your system?
 
>Scan the input for To:, Cc:, and Bcc: fields. Any
recipients on the command line will be ignored.
duh I figured it out
 
I don't have that, and I can't get my mailx to remove newlines.
 
5:53 PM
I still had Content-Type: text/html instead of Content-Type: text/plain
 
Ah, yes, that would do it.
 
Thanks
 
6:18 PM
@derobert A from-scratch installation has probably been a few years in my case.
 
@Kusalananda probably bsd vs. heirloom/nail mailx
 
Possibly when I switched from i386 to amd64. Around 2013, maybe.
Possibly later. I forget.
Once I used to do installs quite regularly.
> This package is a travesty.
I was a bit shocked when I was told that CTAN basically takes anything. I was under the delusion it was quite selective. They do require the package to build/compile, though.
 
6:33 PM
Ok, I see the problem with my TeX file.
I was trying to be too clever. Plus, some possible Lua scoping issues. Sigh.
 
@derobert Yes. Very likely.
 
7:08 PM
@derobert can't fault you for that. :) I'm hoping it will work out nicely for me. I want to gradually migrate to open source, cross-platform software as a prelude to eventually switching to Linux for my primary laptop.
 
@Wildcard I thought you were already using Linux.
 
@FaheemMitha I am, but still on a Mac most of the time. The family laptop is Ubuntu.
 
@Wildcard Oh.
 
@FaheemMitha also, the continuance of this issue isn't exactly reassuring about trying to make the switch for my primary computer....
 
@Wildcard You mean you've having this issue with your family laptop?
 
7:21 PM
@FaheemMitha yep. And a couple others, like when I leave my account logged in for a while, then certain applications don't open, including Terminal, until I log out and back in.
 
The login on my machine is very slow as well. I'm using KDE with the default login manager, or whatever it's called. Can't remember the name.
@Wildcard Is this all on Ubuntu?
 
@FaheemMitha yes.
 
@Wildcard Try using other distributions. Also, desktop hardware is usually less fussy. And cheaper than laptops.
Also, check hardware for Linux compatibility before buying it. It's not so much an issue these days, but still worth checking.
Actually, the Linux kernel had relatively reasonable support for hardware even back in the early days. At least for basic things like motherboards and processors.
Laptops are just generally trickier, because of all the custom hardware. Some might even be proprietary.
I think you said you have a Lenovo?
 
@FaheemMitha that's right.
Switching to a desktop computer isn't an option, though.
 
7:44 PM
@Wildcard Why not?
 
8:37 PM
@FaheemMitha I can't carry that around with me.
 
9:34 PM
There @StephenKitt: I've cleared my close vote queue for today
 
9:45 PM
> Figure out reason for wakeup
When I first read that question title I thought it was an existential question
 
10:45 PM
Does anyone know of a tool to find files that look similar to a given file?
 
11:04 PM
@FaheemMitha What kind of similar? Name and size or should it compare contents as well?
fdupes seems like it might work?
 
@Jesse_b Similar contents. Git and Mercurial have a concept like that.
There is some kind of similarity measure.
 
fdupes says it can match on a partial md5 which I'm not sure how that would work
yeah I think any change would completely change the md5
 
Unsurprisingly, there is some prior art along those lines, but I was hoping there was a simple executable I could fire up.
The discussions I found talk about libraries.
There is something called spacy, but it's not in Debian.
 
didn't he molest a child?
 
@Jesse_b What?
 
11:16 PM
@FaheemMitha kevin spacy
I wonder if you could put something together using find and diff -u
 
@Jesse_b There are existing methods. There's no reason to do that.
 
Not as fun
 

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