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3:58 AM
Does tcpdump or WireShark like programs install any extra kmodule in Linux k. to capture network packets?
 
 
3 hours later…
7:19 AM
@Biswapriyo no, they don’t install anything kernel-related.
 
 
3 hours later…
10:06 AM
@derobert This bank thing appears to be turning into a media firestorm, Indian style. That's good news for people with money in the bank, I suppose.
Three different depositors died in 24 hours. Two of probably stress-induced heart attacks. One killed herself. More probably on the way.
The Supreme Court of India is due to hear a Public Interest Litigation tomorrow about it.
I'm not sure why I'm telling you, but I felt like telling someone...
 
 
6 hours later…
3:55 PM
@FaheemMitha I guess if it gets politician's attention, and they do something. Does India not have lower courts? Or do things like that just start at the Supreme Court?
 
@derobert Yes, it has lower courts, of course. Many courts. Someone filed a PIL in the Supreme Court, that's all.
And the Supreme Court agreed to hear it, which is really the important part.
 
You can file in the Supreme Court w/o first having a lower court hear it? That's different than I'm used to with ours, which generally only has appellate jurisdiction.
 
@derobert In India, apparently, yes.
This isn't the first case that I'm aware of.
It depends on the serious and urgency in part, I guess.
But India doesn't have great communication. That holds true generally.
So often it's not clear why people are doing things.
There are other petitions and stuff being filed too. Multiple ones in the Bombay High Court, for example. Which happens to be walking distance from me. Indian courts are really depressing places.
They feel like places where hope goes to die.
 
Wow... :-(
 
4:41 PM
@derobert Perhaps I'm being too negative. People tell me that, sometimes.
I guess the USA has stricter procedures?
Well, unless sufficiently rich people are doing whatever it is.
 
Normally you have to go here to see hope die:
:-D
@FaheemMitha Yeah, you have to go to a lower court first here. Then generally you'd go to an appellate court or few before trying for the Supreme Court.
 
@derobert Google tells me that is the Capitol. So you mean Congress, I suppose.
@derobert One would expect that to be the case here too. But I guess they're willing to make exceptions.
3 people dying in a day isn't good publicity, even for India.
 
@FaheemMitha Mostly the Senate side of the building, but yeah...
 
I was just talking to someone who said he knew one of the people. Staying in his building, apparently.
Apparently it was completely out of the blue. He didn't have a heart condition or anything. Neither of those men did, apparently. And the first one was at the same protest on Monday as I was. Did I mention that?
He went home and died, basically.
I only went to it because the court is really close to me. It's like, round the corner. I could walk there, though I didn't.
It's wasn't a fun time. There were several hundred very upset people standing outside in the blazing hot sun. Yelling and screaming.
I did meet a chap who said he works as a web developer. The usual vile PHP/Wordpress crap. Used to live in the US - Silicon Valley, I think. Came back home to Bombay.
I tried to get him to help me with my 2FA phone issue.
 
LOL, he must have loved that!
 
4:51 PM
@derobert Hmm?
 
Web developer? That's close enough to tech support!
 
Does anyone know how to persuade Openoffice to export a PDF as A4 rather than letter. Does Word come in Letter vs A4?
I don't know anything about it.
 
@FaheemMitha I'd guess it uses whichever paper size you have set for the document
 
@derobert So I should change the letter size before trying to export?
 
@FaheemMitha Yeah, under Format -> Page
Would make sense.
 
4:55 PM
@derobert That's grayed out.
 
Seems to work here in LibreOffice.
 
Can I ungray it?
 
Probably. Do you have it open read-only maybe?
 
@derobert Not intentionally. What tab is that?
 
LibreOffice puts a big bar up top saying its read-only (no idea if OpenOffice did, or why you'd still be using OpenOffice). It's also Edit -> Edit Mode (checked)
 
4:59 PM
@derobert It's LibreOffice, not OpenOffice.
I guess I screwed up something. I just closed and reopened it.
Now things appear to be ungrayed.
There's export to PDF and export directly to PDF, but they don't say what the difference is. I guess I could read the manual.
 
Or probably Google...
 
The manual has some stuff. I went with export to PDF.
@derobert It's true that the House of Representatives seems less awful than the Senate.
I wonder if the way they explain civics in US schools is are cartoony as in India.
The version they teach in India has no resemblance to reality. Calling a cartoon would actually flattering.
Though as a child I didn't think that. I just thought about how bored I was.
 
@derobert Is that really relevant?
 
You wanted cartoony....
(I don't think anyone has seriously used that video in decades, though)
 
@derobert That wasn't quite what I had in mind.
It had a happy ending, though.
 
You could probably spend all day watching parodies of that.
 
@derobert Is it famous?
 
5:23 PM
Yes
 
5:42 PM
@derobert I don're recall seeing it before.
 
Quite possibly its fame doesn't extend outside the US
 
Possibly. Anyway, what I meant was cartoony wasn't literally a cartoon, but unrealistic.
In the case of Indian civics, extremely unrealistic, to the point of almost no resemblance with reality. Like in the US, Indian politicians ignore the law when it suits them, but they carry it to greater extremes.
And the whole checks and balances thing doesn't work terribly well over here.
India has been relatively lucky so far in that they haven't experienced a truly vicious government. It remains to be seen how it survives 5 more years of Modi.
For example, the Central Govt recently forced the Reserve Bank of India to give it much of its capital reserve, despite much protest, and two Governors resigning.
This is unprecedented.
They need that reserve for national emergencies. The Reserve Bank is India's last defense against economic disaster.
Here is the Economist's take on it: economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/08/29/…
I've always found the Economist a reliable judge of economic matters.
(That's satire, in case, that's not obvious.)
I remember back in the day, it was applauding Reaganomics.
Their diagnosis in a nutshell: it's all in your head.
In case it isn't obvious, part of the reason the Center wanted the money was to bail out banks, which were going bust because they were issuing bad loans to rich people. Possibly friends of Modi.
(Anyway, I'm rambling.)
 
 
2 hours later…
8:27 PM
0
A: Command '' not found + virtualenvwrapper error on ssh login (Ubuntu 18.04 x64)

mladmonIn lines 47-51 of the virtualenvwrapper.sh script, it first checks to see if the environment variable VIRTUALENVWRAPPER_PYTHON is set, and if not, it sets it in line 50: VIRTUALENVWRAPPER_PYTHON="$(command \which python)" The problem is that newer versions of Ubuntu (18.04+) no longer come wit...

command \which seems like overkill
 
8:53 PM
@derobert In the weird news category, Congress is upset that Trump is withdrawing troops from Syria?
In my book, when the US withdraw from anywhere, it's good.
 
9:10 PM
@FaheemMitha yes, not really weird news...
 
@derobert Unsurprising, yes. Still weird, though.
 
Not really. Let me see if I can dig up an article that tries to explain it...
 
@derobert Oh, I know why Congress opposes it. That's not a mystery.
Business as usual, really. I wasn't born yesterday. I know how the US works. And has works for 2 centuries or more, give or take.
 
@FaheemMitha If the US suddenly stopped existing would all war end forever?
 
@Jesse_b No, of course not. Is that a serious question? In fact, all manner of wars would suddenly break out.
 
9:20 PM
@FaheemMitha It was a serious question that I just wanted to know your answer to
 
That's all conjecture, of course. But it seems likely that one of the things (and possibly the only thing) that stops an Indian Pakistan war is the United States. And that's just one example that I happen to be personally familiar with.
 
You seem to have a dystopian view of the world sometimes
 
@Jesse_b Citation needed.
 
@FaheemMitha See basically any comment you have ever made about Trump, the US, or war in general
 
@Jesse_b That's a teensy bit too general.
Humans are quarrelsome creatures. Unfortunately. Though things could be worse.
 
9:22 PM
See this one for example:

> Business as usual, really. I wasn't born yesterday. I know how the US works. And has works for 2 centuries or more, give or take.
 
@Jesse_b Right. So?
 
To seriously claim you know how the US works is already absurd. No one person has ever known how any country really works
There are more ins and outs to every single international conflict than any one person has the brain capacity to comprehend
 
You should read "A People's History of the United States". It's not a particularly good book, but I think you'd find it educational.
@Jesse_b I think that's an overestimate.
 
I assure you it is not
 
So now I'm not just dystopian, but arrogant in claiming to understand something?
@Jesse_b Ok. I've noted your opinion.
 
9:24 PM
@FaheemMitha Sorry if I alluded to that, I do not think you are arrogant
 
Actually, the United States has behaved remarkably consistently throughout its history.
 
I myself have made claims far more absurd and do so on a fairly regular basis.
 
Take its attitude towards Cuba, for example.
It's been much the same for 200 years.
I think Obama tried to make a change, but it reverted fairly swiftly to type.
It's actually a bit surprising, considering how much the world has changed during that time.
And other examples come to mind fairly readily.
 
The US's policy in 1819 towards Cuba was the same as today?!
 
Anyway, I recommend the Zinn book.
@derobert Their attitude was very similar, I'd say.
I.e. they though they owned it.
At that time, as I recall, the Spanish were involved.
 
9:28 PM
I've lived in the US for most of my life and I've never heard anyone think we owned cuba
 
I guess the Monroe Doctrine would be the relevant thing to quote here.
 
In fact most people would probably believe we were at war with cuba which seems about as far as you can be from owning something
 
@FaheemMitha It was a Spanish colony until almost 1900
 
@derobert I was talking about attitudes.
 
Although if we look at British history; war and ownership go hand in hand
 
9:30 PM
I finally found a reason to use eval in a shell script! Although I would never put myself in the position of having to use that code that I just wrote...
 
Or, if you want to put it differently, they coveted it.
 
@Kusalananda I'll upvote your answer but not before you hear a "How dare you!" from me
You made me read that and try to understand the quotes!
 
:-)
Good!
 
@FaheemMitha I don't think we intervened in Cuba until the 1890s...
 
Also, their Israel policy has remained remarkably similar since the 1970s, when they became a patron. Or whatever the term is.
@derobert Yes, that wasn't what I was talking about.
Actually, the Monroe doctrine is interpreted differently by different people
 
9:33 PM
And, another clear difference between 200-year-ago policy and now, territorial expansion was a clear US policy during the 1800s, but not really later.
 
I imagine US historians interpret it in ways very flattering to the US.
But my general take was that it was a general - hands off, it's ours.
@derobert The US has bases all over the world. And they are constantly attacking countries. Under various pretexts, of course.
Most countries do as they are told. Even India does.
The US told India to stop buying oil from Iran. India stopped buying oil from Iran.
If they don't do as they are told, the get harassed. And possibly eventually get attacked.
Though that seems a less popular option these days.
(But I'm rambling...)
 
@FaheemMitha All of that is really another example. That's largely post-WWII. Before that, we didn't really have foreign bases.
And despite all that, note practically no territory has been added to the US.
 
@derobert Agreed, that's probably true. Or not many. I'm not familiar with the history.
@derobert "We" is an odd choice of words. Do you really identify with the US govt?
 
@FaheemMitha The US government =/= the USA
 
@Jesse_b Agreed.
But does a US citizen consider that the US bases are "ours"?
 
9:39 PM
People in the USA are mostly proud of their country and will happily refer to themselves as "we" while still disliking the government. The US is a concept, the government is a temporary group of people we elect to hate.
 
If India has troops in Kashmir, I certainly wouldn't call them "our troops".
And if I do, please slap me hard.
Virtually speaking, I mean.
 
@FaheemMitha I'll happily refer to any US military force anywhere past or present as "our troops"
 
@Jesse_b hah, couldn't have said it better myself
 
@Jesse_b That's nice. Still not a great organization to identify with. And, as already noted, it's very consistent. Really not that temporary.
@derobert Well, that's heart-warming.
 
Who else's bases would they be?
 
9:41 PM
@derobert The US govt.
 
I can definitely confirm the US military does not fight for the government, or at least they don't do it for love of the government
they do it for the people
 
If the US was a dictatorship, they would still belong to the US govt. But a US citizen might have difficulty thinking of it as "ours".
 
@FaheemMitha That's not some foreign invader, it's the people we picked.
 
@Jesse_b I thought they do it because they get paid.
@derobert Right. Between the Democrat party and the Republican party.
 
@FaheemMitha naw. Honestly don't believe that is a valid motivation for almost anyone in the military, certainly not anyone in the enlisted military
You can make more money managing a mcdonalds than you can being a sergeant in the military
 
9:43 PM
@FaheemMitha hah? What's the starting salary?
 
And they do the work because they don't have better choices.
@derobert Don't they offer to send enlisted men to college and so forth?
I forget what those things are called. And if you leave, you have to pay the money back.
Possibly with interest.
Excuse my ignorance of the terminology.
 
Most people in the military are legitimately so patriotic they would serve for free. Can't (wont) say whether or not a lot of them seem to be detached from reality though.
 
@Jesse_b Hmm. That's based on your personal experience? Interesting.
 
Yes, there are benefits like paying for college. Which still isn't that much money. I don't know the terms either, without going and researching it
 
@FaheemMitha Yeah the GI bill is great. It was pretty terrible until 9/11 but the post 9/11 GI bill is actually a very valuable benefit
 
9:46 PM
@derobert No, but presumably the people who get those benefits could not easily get it without.
@Jesse_b The GI bill is different. That's for veterans.
 
The post 9/11 GI bill will not only pay for your school it will pay you a salary while you attend
 
I mean like high school students getting a college education/degree through the Military.
@Jesse_b Maybe that's a different GI bill, then.
 
@FaheemMitha Oh yeah that's gotta be less than 1% of the military though
 
I'm probably thinking of the post WW2 bill.
@Jesse_b Oh?
 
If you want become an officer and they will send you to college (I believe only at one of the military colleges) if you sign like a 12 year contract
But that is a hard program to get and also most people that become officers have already graduated college. Almost everyone without college will be enlisted
 
9:50 PM
There's ROTC as well, or maybe that's the program you're thinking of (and that's officers again, which is of course a minority of the military)
 
Perhaps. I had the impression that agreements involving college were quite common.
It seemed to come up regularly. But perhaps my sample was biased by being in universities.
 
@FaheemMitha Well everyone that serves in the military and gets an honorable discharge* can get the GI bill so it is definitely true to say that anyone who serves in the military can have free college
 
Honestly not entirely sure. Call your friendly neighborhood recruiter and I bet they'll let you know all the benefits :-P
 
@Jesse_b I see. If they didn't get their limbs blown off first, I suppose.
@derobert Wrong continent.
 
@FaheemMitha I know. I was kidding. Though I'm sure the Indian army would be happy to tell you the benefits of joining them.
 
9:55 PM
@FaheemMitha No, plenty of one legged warriors are in college on the GI bill right now I'm sure ;)
Also FYI you don't have to be a US citizen to join our military. We will still accept you and offer you a path to citizenship :)
I went to boot camp with a Chinese guy and a Cuban guy
 
Well, then I guess he can call the friendly recruiter...
 
@Jesse_b Ooh, how gratifying. Body parts in exchange for a "path to citizenship".
It's like Starship Troopers. The film, not the novel.
 
@FaheemMitha If we ever get attacked by an alien race of giant blood thirsty bugs I'll volunteer to lose my limbs so you don't have to
 
@derobert I'm pretty sure the Indian army wouldn't want me. I'd fail the most basic physical.
@Jesse_b That's so kind of you.
Exciting. A returning guest.
Bruce from AU.
Well, if he actually books, and doesn't cancel. Fingers crossed. Metaphorically.
 
Is his name really Bruce?
 
10:00 PM
@Jesse_b Yes. Why?
He was here in October 2017 or so. Nice chap.
 
Bruce is Australian slang
it's sort of like saying "dude" or "bro"
 
I remember telling him about my mother's cancer diagnosis, so that dates it.
 
@FaheemMitha We have something like 1.3 million active-duty troops. And ~5,000 casualties a year over the last ~20 years.
 
@Jesse_b It's also a name.
@derobert Those seem a bit on the low side. But I won't argue with your numbers.
 
@FaheemMitha I grabbed them from Wikipedia @ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war
 
10:02 PM
Yeah and you definitely have a higher chance of losing a limb in the boy scouts than in the air force
 
You're still betting that some nasty war doesn't break out.
@derobert Fair enough.
 
I know the US army normally sits around 1 million troops
The Marine Corps was a bit over 200k when I was in but downsized to like 140k by the time I got out
 
@derobert I'm surprised it's so high. That's a lot of people.
 
The navy has to be pretty big though so I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.3mil number is low
 
I seem to recall the Indian army is around 1 million. But that's probably wrong or out of date.
 
10:04 PM
icasualties.org has another count, with actual by-year breakdowns. It was much higher earlier in the 20-year period, lower now
 
Anyway, I get almost no repeat guests. And few referrals.
 
@Jesse_b nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/22/us/… is where I grabbed it from, which was just the first Google result from "US military size"
 
@derobert Yeah that's what I use. I was going to say 5k /year seems high for the past few years
 
The last referral I got, I managed to offend the chap somehow, apparently because I was concerned about getting paid.
@Jesse_b Maybe an average.
 
@FaheemMitha that same source says 1.4 million for India.They cite International Institute for Strategic Studies as their source
 
10:05 PM
@derobert I don't doubt it and couldn't really argue anyway. I only know the size of the Marine Corps when I was in for sure...and even then I didn't personally count them
 
@derobert Oh. Ok. Well, maybe it was 1 million once.
 
I also know the US military can shift sizes drastically from year to year depending on what their goals are
 
The Indian army is obviously small compared to the size of the population.
Well, relative to some places, anyway.
@derobert I take it you never considered joining the military, then?
 
@FaheemMitha nope
 
Shortest interval between pending and confirmed ever.
 
10:12 PM
@FaheemMitha ?
 
Maybe I should have joined the army and learned to shoot people. Might have come in handy.
@derobert Just confirmed Bruce's booking. Might still cancel, of course.
 
@FaheemMitha You would probably be surprised with how little of my training involved shooting people
We definitely spent more time learning rules of engagement
well that may not be entirely true but it was definitely close enough to be noteworthy
I should use definitely less
 
Tim
The troop withdrawal from Syria is abrupt and irresponsible
 
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Tim
The troop there is to help Kurds to guard the captured ISS terrorists, and to stop Turkey to attack the Kurds
But most of the regime changed wars started by US have been wasteful and failures
I was very happy last night to learn that 3/4 of the Quad endorse Bernie Sanders
Elizabeth Warren is good, but too easy to compromise
 
10:54 PM
@Tim The troop presence in Syria is in violation of international law.
Of course, that's pretty normal for the US. But still, leaving seems like a good thing.
 

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