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6:41 AM
0
Q: How aware is the general public of open source?

overactorTo (most) people in IT, terms like "open source" and "free software" bring up a lot of associations. (For some those association differ wildly between these two terms.) Does the sam go for the general audience of the products which these concepts can apply to? (Software, hardware, industrial mach...

Is this too broad or badly asked?
Or maybe too opinion based?
I'm trying to get a marketing question out there but I'm obviously no expert, this might be too basic..
 
7:01 AM
@overactor it might be, but your last paragraph saves it. You've asked for specific research, which removes both the broadness and opinionated nature.
 
I agree the last paragraph saves it, but the title doesn't reflect it. Maybe it's a good idea to edit the title to ask what research has been published about open source awareness?
 
7:23 AM
Opensource.SE is not open source itself!
 
I vote not to have that discussion here ;)
Though opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/551/… is related (but doesn't have an accepted answer)
StackExchange is not open source at all though
 
8:16 AM
@Pandya That doesn't have to be a big problem though...
@Martijn That's a good suggestion. My rationale was that if we are a site for experts, this should be implied, but I'm probably too much of an optimist.
@ArtOfCode, @Martijn does the question read better now?
 
upvoted :)
 
You were right, making that clear at the very start changes how the whole question works on the reader.
We need to attract more Marketing experts on this private beta..
or invite*
 
We primarily need more experts to ask non-synthetic questions IMO. It's tricky to come up with good questions when they're not actually questions you're having
2
for me personally, I might have a question once a month tops, and I suspect it's the same for others.
 
8:38 AM
@overactor indeed it does. 5 more points for you :)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:46 AM
Suggestion to rename tag to ?
 
10:02 AM
@Martijn good point
@Pandya that does sound better
 
not all commercial uses of open source are necessarily software. Commercial seems broader, for example related to CC-NC licensed non-software works
 
Now that you mention it, you're probably right
we want to keep it general
maybe should be renamed ?
3
Q: What are the best ways to get involved with open source projects?

KingJamesI would like to know if someone could explain to me how to go about working on an open source project. I know that you can use git and other types of programs to commit code, but is there some sort of process in which to officially begin to add to a project. Also, how do open source projects gua...

shouldn't that be CW?
 
 
1 hour later…
11:36 AM
opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/577/… seems like a nice kite. What do all'yall think? It seems rather broad and opinion-based, but at the same time it's an interesting problem
 
 
1 hour later…
12:39 PM
@Martijn I took a shot at answering, I think it's just on the right side of broad
 
12:55 PM
0
Q: Do we want to shy away from gender-specific terms where possible?

overactorI was reading How to deal with a very productive contributor who wants to steer the project in a different direction? and noticed that all proverbs in it were male. Now I'm not 100% sure if this is a situation that actually occurred and that this person is actually male, but it seemed to me like ...

 
1:17 PM
on answer I found "This question was already asked on Stackoverflow in 2008 (but closed as off-topic there)." Is this off-topic here also?
btw, I didn't know there is similar question @stackoverflow before.
 
1:55 PM
@Pandya It's on topic here because it's about open-source. Being off-topic on SO doesn't necessarily mean it's off topic here too.
 
Hello :)
 
Oh hey :)
 
You beat me to 1000 :)
 
@Zizouz212 I noticed. Upvotes are scarce today though
 
@overactor I guess since it's the licence that is proprietary, it could be but that might be redundant. I think will be understood by most.
 
2:06 PM
Yeah, we've gone from averaging like 15 to like 5
And then my "extremely relevant" question doesn't have any votes...
 
0
Q: Present your cases for a [case-study]!

Zizouz212Should we allow case studies? For example, should we look at the practices and results that other organizations or projects have taken, and sort of make case studies out of there. I'm proposing that we create a dedicated tag for these case studies. A tag would allow people to find information, a...

 
@Zizouz212 Which question?
 
1
Q: Who owns the intellectual property?

Zizouz212In many open source projects, there are normally many contributors. Ownership of the code is generally clarified during the process of creating the contributor agreements. However, who owns the intellectual property? While I'm sure that this may be rectified in these contributor agreements, is i...

It bugs me... Comments are like: this is super relevant, others are like, No! But then they're like no votes, up or down...
Oh well though...
 
I upvoted it myself. I can't see up-down votes, but I suspect there may be up/down votes which cancel each other out?
 
@Martijn +2/-1 at the moment
 
2:16 PM
There's two up votes, one down vote
 
@Martijn You have enough rep to see up and down votes - just click on the vote count.
 
It's just this entire dispute: This is completely relevant! But then there's no voting activity
 
oh hey, I can :)
 
Just something I find interesting.
 
It's not just interesting, it's vital we have the discussion if we want to be considered worth pushing to public beta
 
2:18 PM
@Zizouz212 I think the general consensus is it is relevant, given the total +5 upvotes on the comments that say so
And the 0 upvotes on the one that vetoes
 
four people participating in the discussion excluding yourself, three votes.
I don't think you should really count comment votes that way. One person upvoting 3 different comments that support their position shouldn't count for 3 IMO
 
I just find the lack of votes and the comment activity mixed to be funny...
 
@Zizouz212 In the tags list (opensource.stackexchange.com/tags), when you hover over a tag there should be an edit link that appears. Try using that instead.
 
@Zizouz212 which comment? Do you mean the one about is the tag on main? I deleted that one since you've clarified the question now
 
@trichoplax No, you posted 2 comments on the meta question, I just told you that you could've edited and combined them :)
@ArtOfCode I'll try that :)
@ArtOfCode Same result :(
 
2:24 PM
@Zizouz212 What if you enter the url directly? opensource.stackexchange.com/edit-tag-wiki/31
 
@Zizouz212 Ah I see. No when I post separate comments it's because I like to separate different points so that comment voting is more meaningful. Otherwise you can't guess which of the 2 points an upvote refers to
 
@trichoplax Okay, makes sense :)
 
Hey @trichoplax, mind if I steal this and make a question of it?
 
@ArtOfCode This is really depressing me...
 
@Zizouz212 same thing?
 
2:26 PM
@ArtOfCode lol if you can please do
 
@ArtOfCode Make the question!!! :)
 
@ArtOfCode It's been asked about other topics already so not sure how you'd avoid it being a duplicate - but test the boundaries any way you can
 
@ArtOfCode Entering the direct link, same result :(
 
Only if it's not off-topic if I answer with "no, that's physically impossible" :P
 
@Zizouz212 I've just upvoted this. I was sure I upvoted yesterday but either I was mistaken or there was vote reversal (which I guess is quite likely when we're all voting and asking as much as we can)
 
2:30 PM
@trichoplax Oh thanks :)
@ArtOfCode And what happened to beating me in the edit count? I'm ahead by 17 edits...
 
@Zizouz212 Actually judging from the poor grammar in the comment I left last night, I'm guessing I probably just forgot to vote due to tiredness :)
 
@Zizouz212 I was away is what happened. I haven't been looking for posts to edit
 
@trichoplax Oh that's okay. It's not like I'm saying you must vote now!
 
@Zizouz212 No I just mean I remembered that question well enough to be surprised that I hadn't voted
 
0
Q: Can I serve open cola in proprietary glasses?

ArtOfCodeI've just acquired the Hypothetical Cafe (come and visit, we serve great hypothetical food and drinks), and some fancy posh glasses*. They're so posh that an international designer did a special design for them. However, because he hasn't been to Open Source Stack Exchange, he doesn't know the wo...

2
 
2:39 PM
Oh wow you actually did...
 
@trichoplax Your message sat there and challenged me.
 
lol. I'll see if I can answer...
 
Awesome question. I love it! Hypothetical stores...
 
@Zizouz212 More to the point, hypothetical food, drink, and money.
 
Exactly! :D
 
2:44 PM
@Zizouz212, could you edit your answer to the gender question to be a bit more positive?
 
@overactor Sure, I can try! :D
 
for isntance mentioning that we should try (but not too hard)
I agree with it, but the tone is a bit defeatist
@Zizouz212 thanks a bunch.
 
@overactor Better?
 
I'd personally add "(and we should)" after the try and try and try part
but I can live with it as it is :)
 
Sure, adding...
Wait...
> In fact, it would be great for us to help create a gender-neutral environment. I think we should encourage it.
@trichoplax I'm considering making an account just to vote on every amazing thing... codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/35641
 
2:50 PM
I'm still thinking on the gender-neutral thing. As much as I support gender-neutral language, saying we supporting and then taking no action to show that we support it (other than writing it down somewhere) seems so hollow
 
There's many ways we can do this: Meta posts, help centre, question tool tips
Obviously, we can't force people to do this, but we can definitely try
 
@Martijn @Zizouz212 OK, so let's not make it a standard, but ask people to edit where they can.
 
so, hypothetical situation, you edit some question in compliance with a gender-neutral guideline, and the asker goes up in arms against it. Is it worth that argument?
 
@Zizouz212 thanks - just please don't vote up that one - the really interesting ones were posted later (mine and others'), but the initial simple answers got so upvoted that not so many people see the interesting ones lower down (and on the second page)
 
@trichoplax No, just noticed it on your profile, and it looked interesting. Amazed by each post... If only I could program like that. :/
 
2:55 PM
@Zizouz212 It's just normal programming, minified to extremes
 
@Zizouz212 My favourite of mine was too difficult for me to make fit - it's only there because I got lots of help in the chat room - they are very friendly and helpful
 
@ArtOfCode Even just normal programming, oh god I would die...
 
@Zizouz212 You'll note that I've almost never posted there either. I just can't minify enough
 
I'm not a programmer either - you'll notice I've asked and answered very little there - it's fun though
 
Still... I'm so impressed!
 
2:57 PM
To be fair, the high-level languages like C#, Java and those aren't easy to minify
C and Python are a little better, though not easy
 
@Ar
argh
@ArtOfCode , what is an H$? I'm wondering if H$0.89 is a reasonable price for a glass of open cola
depending on the glass, obviously
 
@Martijn 1 H$ is a hypothetical dollar
 
Ah, that's not hypothetically expensive then
 
exchange rate 1 USD = ∞ HYD
 
Nor is it hypothetically cheap.
 
3:00 PM
because you can have as many as you like
 
Will your hypothetical store accept open source money like bitcoin?
 
@ArtOfCode Exchange rate in reverse?
 
Hypothetically, it's the perfect price, balancing cost reparation and convenience for the customer. Because, of course, H$ come in coins of all denominations, so you may well have a H$ 0.89 coin with you.
 
"Can I buy proprietary cola with open source money like bitcoin?"
 
@trichoplax This is starting to sound like a series of questions...
 
3:01 PM
I'm not suggesting it for main lol
 
@trichoplax Well look what happened last time you wrote a comment of that type...
 
lol
 
Yes I still can't believe it - and it's got another star since you asked it on main...
 
I'm afraid that at some point there will be a discussion on whether or not a rum and open cola drink meets the threshold of originality somwhere
 
@Martijn I'd say probably not.
 
3:03 PM
fortunately, we could delegate to law.se
 
Is this site going to become a sandbox for these questions?
 
@Zizouz212 Reverse exchange is mathematically antinormality-focused dynamic. I.e. somehow, ∞ HYD = 1 USD
Disclaimer: yes I just made that up.
@trichoplax The extra star was just me I'm afraid
 
Star when you're afraid?
 
@Zizouz212 I hope not. If it starts looking likely we may have to do something about it.
Start when you're afraid? Que?
 
Something? Star! I'm afraid of this something!
 
3:09 PM
...you've completely confused me now
 
Pourquoi?
 
No sé que dices
 
"@trichoplax The extra star was just me I'm afraid"
 
Yeah, but just what
 
Si quelqu'un soit confus, je parlerai en français!
Finally with the accents!
Je peux continuer si vous voulez!
Et ne le mettre à Google Translate!
 
3:13 PM
Croissant Camembert du baguette
 
@Zizouz212 Pero no sería útil, porque comprendo español mucho mejor
 
Tu paroles francais aussi?
 
Paroles? I think not...
 
I can read it with some effort, I can write most food items
 
parles**
 
3:14 PM
Comprendo un poco francés, porque le había estudio para siete años, pero no es fácil para mí.
Porque estamos hablando idiomas extranjeras?
 
What have I started...
Portuguese?
 
You've started the language wars xD No, Spanish
 
Latin in Highschool, Dutch native, means I am able to read most Latin and Germanic languages, but speaking and writing is not really feasible for me
nor is understanding it when spoken
 
Oh spanish!
 
well, at least the simple parts
 
3:16 PM
English, French, a little Norwegian, and Gujurati (an indian language in which I'm 100% illiterate)
That's what I know
 
@Zizouz212 Well that just won it for you then
English, Spanish and some French. A few words and phrases in German.
I also speak C# and Java very well, but I don't think people would understand me if I tried to converse in them.
 
Did you understand a little what I was saying before?
 
me? Yeah, stuff like that is within my grasp
 
@Zizouz212 I was following it perfectly actually. I did French for 7 years. Haven't done any for 4 or so, so I'm a bit rusty, but I can understand.
 
Going into my 11th year of French :)
 
3:20 PM
A-level Spanish for me now
 
3:34 PM
Hey guys
 
Hey :)
 
How am I almost at 900 rep!!!
 
Evening :)
@TrevorClarke because people upvoted you
 
It's 11 am for me
 
Evening for @ArtOfCode :)
Morning for us :)
 
3:37 PM
@Zizouz212 It's not evening here either, I'm messing with your heads
It's 16:38 here, so afternoon
 
Oh. That's nice
@TrevorClarke You've asked 41 questions...
 
Jesus how so many?
 
Like a quarter of everything in this beta...
We've got 169 questions...
 
Ik
Lolol
 
3:42 PM
41/69 = 24.2%
 
So like a third or just under
I have ran out of ideas
 
I don't think you need more ideas
 
3:56 PM
Yeah but how am I supposed to gain more rep
 
Answer!
 
It would be good too. Our answer ratio is 1.9, ideally it should be better than 2.5
 
4:43 PM
hi
 
I am terrible at answering questions.
2
 
5:00 PM
@Zizouz212 Only ideally though. It's no longer an absolute requirement for graduation.
 
5:17 PM
@ArtOfCode But we should at least try to get there.
 
Of course, just noting that that's a long time away yet
 
But it's still a goal that we can work towards
 
J
a
shh
typing good
 
What?
 
I meant to type ja but i failed miserably
 
5:29 PM
@Zizouz212 1 good answer trumps 5 mediocre ones
 
oh
 
That is also true
quality over quantity
 
Oh.
What?
Oh, i get it now
 
At the same time, a question with a good answer and a mediocre one is not worse than one with just a good answer
 
@ArtOfCode Are you getting a number for the suggested edits queue?
 
5:32 PM
@Zizouz212 No, just the close vote queue, which I just dealt with
There's 4 reviews to be done though, so I imagine you may well do.
 
Yeah, but there's nothing in any of the queues...
I don't know... Strange
 
@Zizouz212 The orange number is the total number of reviews remaining to be done by anyone, not you specifically
 
Normally it resets after reviews though
Just feels a little werid
 
@Zizouz212 usually because you just completed a review
As in, no more reviewers required
 
You sure you don't have anything in your queue? It takes two people to approve/reject something
So this is weird, since we would've went through them
 
5:43 PM
Definitely nada
On the review screen I'm seeing me as doing the last review on every queue, so I would have just done it
This is the last suggested edit, which has been approved.
This needs reviewing by others, so is one of the 4 remaining
 
Close votes are a part of that number? I was pretty sure that was just suggested edits?
 
As is this, this (which you've already reviewed), and one other
It's any reviews, technically, though sometimes it doesn't show them and sometimes it does
That number is a bit weird
There are no open suggested edits, so it can't be that there are 4
 
sometimes? Well, SE better fix that!
Could it be something to do with tag wikis? I remember I've had another issue like this in another private beta about a month ago
 
The history for suggested edits shows that they're all closed.
Anyway, I'm off. Back later, probably.
 
Sure see you soon~!
 
6:25 PM
someone went and doe voted like 5 of my questions
 
6:42 PM
@TrevorClarke Which ones?
If that's true, it could be minor scale voting fruad
 
7:20 PM
Idk um
They have change one back
 
Look at the vote counts.
 
When u said please comment why u downvote
 
Yeah
Oh btw I just asked a less licensing question about investors pls take a look at it
0
Q: How could I include my business partners / investors in the open source product development

Trevor ClarkeIn my company we are developing a large open source price of software. To do this we have hired many developers. To pay these developers we have gotten business partners and investors to help cover the cost. However these people are not the most tech savvy people and it is often hard to explain...

 
What kind of answers are you looking for? Like that, it's looks like it could be closed for opinion based/too broad
You should try and be a little more specific, and tell which type of answers you want
 
7:45 PM
What r u up to?
 
@TrevorClarke It's always possible it was separate users, though it does sound like serial voting. Unfortunately, the system might not catch just 4 downvotes, so you might just have to deal with the -8. See what tomorrow brings :)
Guys (notably @Zizouz212) - we need to be mindful of people rejecting edits that change gender-specific terms to gender-neutral terms. There was an edit suggested on the example question from the meta post, which I approved, but the question's author rejected. I've since applied it, and commented, but we just need to be watchful.
 
8:04 PM
@ArtOfCode Do you mind if I see that edit?
 
2
Q: What is involved in publishing a previously closed project as open source?

NicolásGiven a closed source project that has been developed for some time: What are the main things that should be done in order to ease its transition to a open source development? What I've thought of so far is good documentation (at least good comments in the code) and an attractive purpose of ...

I've posted a comment, but wanted to ask here ... though there aren't many
I done this for real. It took about 200 engineers most of a year to do it. And that's not counting legal, admin, etc. I myself led a team of 40 engineers.
It's seriously way more complex than people think, and a proper answer could be very very long
and probably more detailed than people want
 
Aren't many... I don't count as many people?
 
I only see 3 in chat (and I'm not sure about me)
 
I'm still waiting for your question ;)
 
The one about taking a closed-srouce project public
 
8:12 PM
Anyways, I've read the comment, but I'm not entirely sure. I don't have a complete background in that, but I feel like this could be an example of a good canonical answer for the site
But, I feel like we would need a better question for that, the current form isn't entirely clear.
 
I see there are four close votes on the question. I think it's a pretty good question myself, but if there are four close votes, and you indicate yourself that the answer is very long and very complicated, I don't know
 
My issue with the question is that if it wants to be broad, it needs to be exceptionally clear and detailed
 
@Zizouz212 this is the edit history, and this is the edit review.
 
@ArtOfCode Thanks. I'm quite curious as to that
Should I let the author know about this through a comment?
Actually, never mind I see you guys have let him know
 
@Zizouz212 I've done it already, if you take a look at the post. Otherwise, I'd say yes :)
 
8:17 PM
Yeah, I saw. I'm just going to clarify something for the author person
 
@kdopen From a personal perspective I'm quite curious to your story, so for me personally, I'd love to see your answer there. I've considered doing this myself, and assumed that it was going to take me roughly two days, but then again, we're a company of 4 people, and this is neither a complex product nor one I expect to be popular
 
@ArtOfCode 28 seconds ahead of me... Grrrr
 
@Zizouz212 I type fast :)
 
Maybe too fast?
 
@Zizouz212 Quite probably. I am, as we speak, also maintaining a website, writing an answer, setting up a database, and thinking about all 3.
 
8:24 PM
Oh god
 
Hi, I'm back
 
Sounds like your having fun :D
 
@Mnementh afternoon
@Zizouz212 Correct. I'm done typing the answer now though, so only 2 things remain.
 
@Mnementh Hi Rep Guy!
 
@Zizouz212 Why is it that we always end up doing the same reviews?
 
8:28 PM
@ArtOfCode I think we need to ask, Why are we reviewing at the same time?
 
Mainly because I live on reviews
The review queue homepage is my house
 
@ArtOfCode Same...
I bet we probably do the majority of reviews on this site
 
And yet we both find time to comment and answer too. Somehow.
We probably do. I'll see if I can investigate that claim...
In Close Votes, we do 25.66% of all reviews
In First Posts, 20%
 
Still a fair bit...
 
In Low Quality, 55%
In Reopen, 15.78%
And Suggested Edits, 18.29%
 
8:33 PM
Low Quality? We rule the world!
 
We do over half of them... jeesus
Need to work on our reopen reviews though ;)
Here's a challenge: I want to end up doing at least 20% between us on all of them
Aaand I shall return later.
 
20% Why not 25?
 
8:53 PM
1
Q: Are questions that concern the public outright opinion based?

Zizouz212I've seen a few questions in the close review queues, as well as just by browsing around the site. There's been a rise in close votes: as Primarily Opinion-Based. Here are some examples: Is it general knowledge that open source is different from freeware? (4 Close Votes) Is harassment a major i...

 
@Mnementh Thanks for the comment on the PD question. It's all terribly synthetic off course. I suspect nobody will really care about what happens when the initial version of grep enters the public domain in 2069
 
@Martijn: Yes, but an acedemic interest might be satisfied. And it is public domain already in 2069? I might have an outside chance to be alive until then. The original author died in 1999?
 
published in 1974. For works published then it's 95 years after first publication
life + 70 is for post-2002 works
PD is incredibly messy
 
(Wrong room)
 
9:01 PM
I lied. life + 70 is for first published post 1978
either way, Ken Thompson is still alive, AFAIK :D
 
@Martijn In some countries, it's 80 or 100 years
 
yes, hence the incredibly messy
it was first published in the US though, and most countries (but not the US) use the rule of the shorter term
 
@Martijn Here in germany it probably is life-70 years, the US had some changes in the last decades to copyright-rules
 
All of these terms are insanely long, especially for a copyright context, and by 2069, the rules will probably have already changed
 
Yes. Most countries thought tend to rule life+70 years now, so this seems to become an established standard.
 
9:10 PM
@Mnementh Life minus 70 years?!? How do they determine when it's 70 years before you're going to die?
"I must reject your claim on the grounds that according to these actuarial tables, you will be dead within 70 years"
 
Some of them are even more insane. France has a standard life + 70, except for people who died in active military service, for whom it is life + 100
 
@Martijn that 'active service' one actually makes some sense. You could assume that they are more likely to die young, and thus the extra 30 years gives the family a little more runway for replacing the author's revenue stream
But of course, it all used to be death+50 ... until the copyright on Mickey Mouse was about to expire.
And someone bought ... I mean lobbied for ... I mean democratically achieved an extension
 
@trichoplax Hmm, I wrote +
Oh, before I wrote -, thats bad yes, hard to enforce your rights here in germany where you have to prove, that you will live at least another 70 years :-)
 
9:28 PM
:)
 
well, I'm going to live forever :)
actually, on some days it feels like I already have
 
 
1 hour later…
10:50 PM
0
Q: Do open source projects have better or worse female participation than proprietary projects?

MnementhSometimes the claim is heard open source projects are especially unfriendly to women. Sometimes the claim is heard, that open-source projects are especially inclusive. It probably is impossible to answer which is more true, but we could get a hint by looking at real participation from females. S...

Interesting, instantly downvoted, but not close-voted without explanation ...
 
11:03 PM
@ArtOfCode I edited the meta posts that lacked proper tags. It's a one-time thing, except for new posts that I'll edit as I see them.
 
@Gilles aaahh, I didn't realise they were all tag edits. That makes sense
 
There were 10 of them, not really enough to spread them out.
The lack of ability to retag meta posts is my second-biggest annoyances with new betas, the biggest one being that people keep repeating the same mistakes.
 
11:21 PM
1
Q: Questions about demographic imbalance

trichoplaxI noticed a down vote on Do open source projects have better or worse female participation than proprietary projects?. As my comments there show, I think this question is both important and answerable with evidence: Although it may be (perhaps counter-intuitively) easier to measure this for c...

 

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