The Bikeshed

kdopen

8:00 PM

So ... how does the world find out about the public beta?

ArtOfCode

Through the rest of SE, or by us promoting it.

michaelpri

@Mnementh Glad to see you accepted :)

ArtOfCode

review is 350

Zizouz212

Also, @ArtOfCode and everyone, I'm accepting the nomination too :D

ArtOfCode

Thank obscenities

Well the first public beta answer has now been deleted xD The search is back on for a new first post

@TrevorClarke We also need more questions for people to answer ;)

Zizouz212

8:03 PM

lol

kdopen

@ArtOfCode that's part of the reason I haven't accepted answers on all of my questions

ArtOfCode

@kdopen nicely done

Zizouz212

First to place a bounty in public is me!

ArtOfCode

hopefully people find them

@Zizouz212 But not first bounty ;)

Zizouz212

Whatever!

michaelpri

8:05 PM

@ArtOfCode Wanna have a bot-off? :)

kdopen

Now let's see ... offer a bounty .. lose a privilege ...

at least if you're on the cusp

Trevor Clarke

@ArtOfCode well from my comments 5tey are

ArtOfCode

@michaelpri Challenge accepted. However, let's do so in the chatbot room. @Zizouz212, want to bring @ParrotBot?

Zizouz212

16

Q: Does open source qualify as being part of the public domain?

According to Google, Open Source is... denoting software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified. It seems to be that the product seems to be available without restrictions to the public, as you can redistribute and modify it at will...

Trevor Clarke

They are "made up of I researched questions" I'm starting to think I may not be valuable to this site at all...

@ArtOfCode ^

Zizouz212

8:07 PM

@ArtOfCode Sorry, she doesn't want to connect...

ArtOfCode

Oh come on Trevor, you've definitely been valuable

Trevor Clarke

Well idk

Thanks

Zizouz212

Damn, now I'm at -40 rep for the day...

kdopen

@Zizouz212 If you are accepting, you might want to edit your nomination to say so

Zizouz212

Oh yes, I have to submit that edit... :D

kdopen

8:08 PM

@TrevorClarke Wait and see how the votes pan out. None of the candidates is downvote free

Trevor Clarke

Yeah I guess

kdopen

s/is/are/ knew that felt wrong as I typed it

Zizouz212

7

A: Who should moderate this site?

I'd also like to nominate Zizouz212 - so add 1 to the total votes on this post. Note: users with moderator tools will be able to see that Zizouz has previously deleted a self-nomination. This is here in the hopes that we can persuade him to come back, because I think he'd be a great...

kdopen

and flagging that comment got me the Citizen Report badge :)

Zizouz212

Citizen Report xD

ArtOfCode

8:10 PM

Patrol

Zizouz212

It's Citizen Patrol.... xD

kdopen

"I've heard it both ways"

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 point..?

9

A: Who should moderate this site?

I'd like to nominate myself. On the topic - I've been dealing with free and open source software since I started programming 10 years ago. I like to think I've learned a fair amount in that time, and I'd be able to bring that knowledge to the table. I've been on and around StackExchang...

Zizouz212

I accepted :)

kdopen

@ArtOfCode It's a quote from Psych

ArtOfCode

8:12 PM

Ooohh

kdopen

or a tag line actually

Trevor Clarke

Guys can you give me ur opinion... Should I keep asking lots of questions or should I stop because they are "unee searched"?

Unresearched

Zizouz212

Go on. Just because someone tells you to stop because you're questions aren't researched means one thing: they fail to recognize the potential in your questions.

Trevor Clarke

Ok thx

ArtOfCode

We need some questions, so keep asking, but just make it seem like they're more researched. As Ziz says, it's one user: your questions have been good.

Zizouz212

8:13 PM

@ArtOfCode I'm first to get the Promoter badge :)

Gilles

gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html - and you come along and claim "but but... our Open Source doesn't miss the point". I find that hard to believe, given that some of the active users of this site didn't seem to be aware of the difference in philosophies at all. — Michael Schumacher 8 hours ago

sigh

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 and I've got Altruist

kdopen

Look and see what percentage of your questions got closed or heavily downvoted. Use that as a guideline rather than a single comment. And remember, what seems an "obvious" question to the private beta folk may not be so obvious to newbies. The votes may yet come in

Zizouz212

And soon I'll get benefactor...

Gilles

How about calling this site Judea? Because it's where the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front come to fight.

Zizouz212

8:15 PM

Ummmm

kdopen

And is this the room for an argument?

ArtOfCode

@kdopen well it's called "The Bikeshed"... let that speak what it will...

kdopen

given what we used to do behind the bikeshed ...

Gilles

@kdopen I'd rather have arguments here than on the main site or on meta

kdopen

maybe it has a different use nowadays?

.. sigh ... that's where the generation gap shows ... when my "cultural references" fall on deaf ears :)

which, of course, is another tag line from SM Stirling's books

or should that be "blind screens" in today's world

Zizouz212

8:18 PM

50 avid users at the end of private, with 2 over 2000. That's pretty good. And then we have 420 users.

HDE 226868

At least @Gilles's Monty Python joke was not totally lost.

Zizouz212

Monty Python....

HDE 226868

Life of Brian. Judea.

ArtOfCode

...nope. xD

Zizouz212

Guys, give me ideas! I need to get 50 rep so I don't look like a lost rep today!

kdopen

8:20 PM

@Zizouz212 We're not feeding your habit

Zizouz212

sigh...

kdopen

@HDE226868 yeah, but my counter-quote seemed to fly like a lead balloon

Gilles

@Zizouz212 the challenge will be to maintain quality, such as it is — keeping a decent ratio of interesting question (we've had many mediocre questions during the private beta), and not letting the holier-than-thou fractions dominate the site

@Zizouz212 we've just gone public, you're a major contributor, you're likely to get 5 more upvotes in the next 3 hours

Zizouz212

That's why it's difficult to think of a question that I can also self-answer...

kdopen

@Gilles Yep, that last one is going to be a major battle

Zizouz212

8:23 PM

I had a big canonical question on what Open Knowledge was, but it doesn't look like we're anything close to make that on-topic anymore...

kdopen

and it's why I haven't bothered chasing rep. When the new people arrive there will likely be a rash of upvotes if they find useful stuff

Mnementh

@Zizouz212 Just ask

Air

@Gilles I particularly like that he evokes rms as a way of supporting a naming argument... Soon we will all be accessing FLOSS.SE from our GNU/Linux machines

kdopen

hey .. if we were nominated by someone else ... should we vote on our own nomination :) Seems cheeky

Zizouz212

Issue is that it's off-topic

@kdopen Say you're voting on behalf of the one who nominated you :D

ArtOfCode

8:24 PM

Pretty cheeky indeed...

Gilles

@Air our GNU/X11/Apache/Linux/TeX/Perl/Python/FreeCiv machines, please!

ArtOfCode

Then again, that is a good reason

kdopen

@ArtOfCode@Zizouz212 Seriously? I was messing around

Zizouz212

@Mnementh In case you were wondering what the question I had was, it's this: What is open knowledge, and how is it different from Open Data?

ArtOfCode

Messing around? We don't do messing around here. stern look.

xD

Zizouz212

8:26 PM

But it doesn't look like we're placing open knowledge in the scope

kdopen

and we don't need no stinking badges

Mnementh

@Zizouz212 Go ahead, I want the wider scope, so I'll not close it

ArtOfCode

Nor will I

Zizouz212

But if it's off-topic...

kdopen

nor I .. that only leaves 421

ArtOfCode

8:27 PM

turns a blind eye

Zizouz212

lol, you guys are all hilarious

Mnementh

@Zizouz212 We define what is off-topic

Gilles

@Zizouz212 upon reflection I don't like “open knowledge” or “open information”

ArtOfCode

^^

Gilles

because that excludes open source!

Zizouz212

8:27 PM

How so?

kdopen

@Mnementh Well we used to ... now the unwashed masses get a say

Zizouz212

I would say they share many things in common: licensing, accessibility and the like

Mnementh

. o O ( Open bytes )

Gilles

Source code, or the text of a book, or a musical performance, etc., isn't knowledge/information. They're different legal categories.

@Zizouz212 No, information isn't subject to copyright.

Zizouz212

Interesting, the foundation says that it is...

Gilles

8:28 PM

@Zizouz212 which foundation?

Zizouz212

The Open Knowledge Foundation...

Talking about that, any responses @ArtOfCode

ArtOfCode

Let me check

I doubt it though

Gilles

@Zizouz212 data collections are subject to database rights, which depending on the jurisdiction may be a branch of copyright with rather distinct provisions (e.g. France) or something entirely parallel (e.g. US)

information, as such, is by and large not restricted, at least in democracies

apsillers

Copyright only covers creative expression; pure information is outside the scope of creativity

Gilles

@apsillers good summary

Zizouz212

8:30 PM

Perhaps... I'm not an expert in copyright so...

apsillers

Database rights: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_generis_database_right

ArtOfCode

Well I've got an email from SE saying we're public, but nothing from CC or the FSF

Zizouz212

I'll post it anyway, how's that?

ArtOfCode

Do it

Zizouz212

Sure. If it gets closed, it's a good pointer anyway

ArtOfCode

8:32 PM

Indeed :)

apsillers

be bold :)

Zizouz212

Just give me a second :)

apsillers

if your question is closed, at least it will die in combat

Zizouz212

Also, if it's closed, it means a new site proposal for me :D

0

A: What is Open Knowledge, and how is it different from Open Data?

According to the Open Knowledge Foundation... Open Knowledge is what open data becomes when it’s useful, doable, and used. So then what does this mean? The foundation goes on to list three key points about “openness:” Open data are the building blocks of open knowledge. Open knowledge i...

Alright... Any ideas?

ArtOfCode

not really

Zizouz212

8:40 PM

Okay, so I'm assuming it's not a bad post...

ArtOfCode

+3/+3 so no

Interesting. Views: 2. Votes: 3.

Zizouz212

lol

Interesting indeed

ArtOfCode

Now 4 votes... well you've already made up your 50 Ziz

Zizouz212

Yep, and that was fast :)

Well, 5 votes and 2 views...

ArtOfCode

Look at all these new users we got from going public

Zizouz212

8:50 PM

Actually, there were in private before...

ArtOfCode

Only some of them... we've got a number of new users too. They say x in y day(s), and if y==1 then they joined today, i.e. after we went public

ratchet freak

next step getting some hot questions

Zizouz212

Yep... Except I'm out...

ratchet freak

that'll be a dual edged blade

new blood in the SE but also a lot of bikeshedding

ArtOfCode

The first person to get a gold badge gets 500 Karma points.

Zizouz212

8:52 PM

I'm on it!

Oh crap... No where near a gold badge...

trichoplax

An example of something open source (and free in both senses):

Sintel - Third Open Movie by Blender Foundation

►

ratchet freak

easiest one is the 200 days online one

overactor

congratz to everyone for getting us to public beta

3

ArtOfCode

@ratchetfreak It's only 100, actually

Zizouz212

Issues with beta badges:

ratchet freak

8:54 PM

yeah just checked that

ArtOfCode

Recent badge list: Beta beta beta beta beta beta beta beta....

Zizouz212

overactor

can't take much credit for it, but I'm proud to see 'my baby' all grown up

Zizouz212

lol, you're the one who started this :D

overactor

@Zizouz212 heh

@Zizouz212 and you guys finished it :)

Zizouz212

8:55 PM

You helped finish it too...

However, I can't get over this:

overactor

I've got another idea for a question, I'll write it up tonight or tomorrow morning

Zizouz212

Most of the unanswered questions have been modified by you...

Mnementh

@Zizouz212 Because these are real hard to answer questions.

ArtOfCode

Easiest badge to get: Informed.

Zizouz212

I know, but I can't help but see overactor there a lot...

@ArtOfCode If you're an existing user, then I say autobiographer...

Your bio carries on from other sites

overactor

8:57 PM

@Mnementh they're all questions about statistics

I created a tag for it and applied it where applicable

ArtOfCode

True, I get that auto when I join. OK, easiest that actually requires you to do something

overactor

it does look suspicious, doesn't it?

ArtOfCode

Excluding the association bonus

Mnementh

@overactor Yes, and if you have no matching at hand you can't really answer

overactor

@Mnementh exactly

maybe the public beta will bring in people who can answer

maybe we'll ask somone at OSI to have a look at it?

Zizouz212

8:58 PM

I wouldn't be surprised... If only we had ads up at programmers, so/su and sf

Maybe not sf, but particularly the others

overactor

@Zizouz212 We should get a community ads thread going

2

ArtOfCode

@overactor We've got one

Zizouz212

That's for this site... We need to post it to others, and I think we're too late.

ArtOfCode

Someone just needs to submit the ads to the threads on other sites

Zizouz212

However, I might be wrong in that

overactor

8:59 PM

@ArtOfCode I remember seeing an ad

ArtOfCode

Yeah, mine xD

overactor

floss regularly, right?

I liked the pun

Zizouz212

Yep :)

overactor

can't go wrong with a pun

the osi logo is of course

well

Zizouz212

Eek

That could actually be an issue

overactor

9:01 PM

not ideal as things look now

ArtOfCode

ssshhhh

xD

Zizouz212

lol

ArtOfCode

True

hmmm

overactor

If we don't mention it, the problem will disappear

Zizouz212

Sure

overactor

9:01 PM

I look forward to the next SE podcast

ArtOfCode

Because that's how the world works, right?

Zizouz212

I wasn't here...

overactor

our site will get a mention

@ArtOfCode exactly like that

two edits on one question in the span of 9 seconds

Zizouz212

5 edits... opensource.stackexchange.com/posts/883/revisions

overactor

@Zizouz212, @Mnementh you guys don't mess around

Zizouz212

9:03 PM

In like 30 seconds... -_-

lol

overactor

I can't review anymore

or see votes distribution

ArtOfCode

I got one in as well

Zizouz212

Privileges rep requirements went up... I don't have mod tools anymore... :(

overactor

I need to get on that rep building

Air

@overactor That is a meta-tag, in that context. It should be used for questions that require statistical expertise to answer, not for questions that ask for answers to be supported by statistics.

Zizouz212

9:05 PM

@air That was on main

Air

@Zizouz212 See also: The Death of Meta Tags

Mnementh

@Zizouz212 mod-tools currently only show me one deleted question 18 hours ago. Maybe I use them wrong.

Air

Not talking about tags for the meta site.

Zizouz212

Okay, then I'm really confused...

ArtOfCode

@Air which tag are we talking about here?

Air

9:08 PM

@ArtOfCode statistics

overactor

@Air I see your point, I feel like it's not pure noise though

a bit noisy I'll admit

ArtOfCode

Hmmm... partially meta, partially useful

overactor

I didn't really think about it very deeeply

Air

I suppose you could argue that certain people are exceptionally likely to be aware of statistics regarding aspects of open source

ArtOfCode

I'm tempted to leave it for now and see what public beta makes of it

If it turns out way too meta, we'll delete it.

overactor

9:09 PM

@Air exactly

Zizouz212

What about a different name for it?

overactor

I feel like it's a meta tag with some limited merit to it

Zizouz212

Because I see what @Air means here.

Air

@overactor People felt the same way about [homework]

overactor

I certainly liek to think it's better than subjective

@Air there is some merit to that though

gotta go

Zizouz212

9:10 PM

[homework]?

Air

250

Q: The homework tag is now officially deprecated

Homework is no longer a tag on Stack Overflow. Keeping this post for historical reference. --Shog9 The result of a rather lengthy discussion concludes with the homework tag needing to go away on Stack Overflow. As far as tag burninations go, this is quite large, with over 20,000 questio...

support tags clean-up homework

ArtOfCode

What do y'all think about leaving it to mature?

Air

I suspect it'll end up being killed at some point. But I'm here as a lay person, so I could be wrong.

Zizouz212

I've been pinged again...

ArtOfCode

It might well be, but I see enough merit in it to keep it for a while

Ziz, check other rooms you might be in

Do a leave all and come back in

Zizouz212

9:11 PM

It was for this room...

Air

I replied to you, was that the ping?

Zizouz212

@Air When, I don't see anything within the last few minutes...

Air

@Zizouz212 The oneboxed link to Tim's post (heh) about [homework]. See, it has a little arrow in the upper-left hand corner... And if you click the red circle with a number (that appears on top of your avatar, in the room where you are pinged) it highlights the post that pinged you.

Mnementh

I get my daily dosage of Dr. House now. Later

Zizouz212

Okay... Didn't see that. Too bad it doesn't highlight it or anything...

ArtOfCode

9:14 PM

Oh, I just got my 3rd silver: Outspoken

Zizouz212

Wats....

10 starred messages is it?

Well, you are outspoken...

And also very talkative... :D

ArtOfCode

10 messages starred by 10 unique users

Zizouz212

So people like what you've ought to say :)

ArtOfCode

I am, I like chatting along with our little community :)

Apparently so

Well the sidebar currently has 2 of my messages pinned with 11 stars between them

Zizouz212

I'm counting 5...

With 17 stars

ArtOfCode

9:18 PM

Aye, but you can see more than me

Oh I see one more now, so 3 with 14

In total, 8 with 24

Zizouz212

Now I need to find mine...

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 Find them here

Zizouz212

I've got 12 stars... across 7 posts

ArtOfCode

Not bad, not bad

Zizouz212

You're like outspoken..

I can't compare anywhere to you...

I can beat you in votes, edits, and close votes, but not stars...

ArtOfCode

9:24 PM

Mwahaha. I believe I also have Outspoken on other sites.

But of course, I beat you in rep ;)

Zizouz212

-_-

This is going to become a "who's better" contest...

ArtOfCode

Not that we're competing. Or anything vaguely non-serious like that.

Nah, friendly rivalry drives better participation

At least, that's my opinion.

Zizouz212

Yep, sure does

I got my friend to SO... he beat my rep in a few weeks...

ArtOfCode

First public post has arrived:

1

Q: Copyright and Contributing to an Open Source Project

I'm a little confused by copyright notices on open source projects. Let's say that a particular project is covered by a very permissive license, such as MIT or BSD. A copyright notice appears from the company that originated the source code. But let's say that the project leader leaves the com...

contributor copyright

Zizouz212

Well, it's a really good post too :D

ArtOfCode

9:28 PM

I sort of left SO. Still visit occasionally to answer the odd question, or to ask one, but other than that it just stopped being fun.

It is, and I'm deliberately not answering in the hopes that someone else from outside comes along.

Zizouz212

Same, I feel like I can't answer questions without being criticized of my style, and questions are so negatively received now

ArtOfCode

I managed to get a +100 question about a month ago

Got me a gold badge

Zizouz212

Really? Which one?

ArtOfCode

This one:

100

Q: Why does this string extension method not throw an exception?

I've got a C# string extension method that should return an IEnumerable<int> of all the indexes of a substring within a string. It works perfectly for its intended purpose and the expected results are returned (as proven by one of my tests, although not the one below), but another unit test has d...

c# null comparison ienumerable argumentnullexception

Along with the massive spike in my rep graph to match it

Zizouz212

Upvoting...

Actually, I've already up voted that :D

ArtOfCode

9:30 PM

Hehe

Nice :)

Zizouz212

lol, has it ever happened when you had a problem, you google, find a question and answer that works, you bother giving a vote to discover its yours?

And that's a really big spike...

ArtOfCode

Only once, but yes.

Unexpected when you just get 'you can't vote for your own post' xD

Zizouz212

I know... and then you feel dumb afterwards...

I've got the unsung hero badge...

ArtOfCode

Well in theory I should have got 1000 rep off it, but I ended up getting about 800

I thought I'd get that at one stage

Zizouz212

Hey! We have the same badge counts: 1 Gold / 7 Silver / 27 Bronze...

Gilles

9:32 PM

in Unix and Linux, Mar 28 '13 at 21:41, by Gilles

<--- is confronted with bizarre problem
Googles
Finds 2-year old answer on SE that solves the problem. Gee, I didn't know that.
"You can't vote for your own post"

Zizouz212

lol

ArtOfCode

I know, I found your profile earlier and noted that

And @Gilles hits the nail on the head

Zizouz212

Yep

For some xkcd...

Why do all my attempts at science end with me being punched by Batman? (P.S. benzoyl peroxide soap works great.)

Gilles

It's also happened to me the other way round. “WTF? This doesn't work at all, the explanation is complete nonsense! Waddya mean I can't downvote it?”

Zizouz212

Second public post:

0

Q: License for code snippets?

I share small snippets of code with friends, and would like to post them online for others to use. I'm not sure of the best license? I was thinking MIT, but it includes this clause: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portio...