Language Overflow

Mick

16:05

Talkative girl.

CowperKettle

@snailplane T minus 3 hours here

@DamkerngT. Thank you! (0;

It is minus 50 minutes in Bangkok

Damkerng T.

The New Year is approaching!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. The New Year is approaching fast! Do your best to avoid a collision!

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Evasive navigation activated!

V.V.

Dam,have a glass of something ready. You are the first in the chain.

Anonymous

16:13

We'd better detach the saucer section.

Damkerng T.

LOL

@V.V. Okay, I'll make some tea. :-)

Færd

> I think you're stupid, and I've always done so.

Detect anything curious?

Anonymous

Yeah, that's odd sounding. I've always thought so.

Færd

Thanks.

That's not the problem that this book mentions though.

Anonymous

Not sure if it'd be okay in BrE. Better ask our resident expert, @Mick :-)

Færd

16:15

What about this?

> I will smack you for it now, as I've always done so.

Anonymous

@Færd So doesn't work there.

Færd

Ah! Why?

Anonymous

In this one you've got as, not and.

Færd

If it was and it would work?

Anonymous

Yes.

Færd

16:17

Hmm. Wonder why.

Anonymous

@Færd What problem did your book mention?

CowperKettle

We were bicycling today

About 30 km all across the city's Christmas Trees

It was nice (0:

Anonymous

Brrrr

Anonymous

That is a very large tree.

CowperKettle

I had to put four chemical heating pads into my boots to keep my toes from freezing off

Færd

16:25

@snailplane It doesn't specifically mention the problem with the sentence. Only says it's not right/normal, with reference to:

CowperKettle

Yes, they are traditionally very large (0:

Færd

> We use do so mainly to refer to the same action, with the same subject, that was mentioned before. In other cases we prefer do it/that or do alone.

In that regard, I think the sentence (the original one) is perfectly fine.

@CowperKettle Looks like you had fun.

Anonymous

I don't have a really good grasp of how do is used as a pro-verb in British English.

CowperKettle

@Færd Yes (0:

But 80% of the way it was thus (0:

Along the sidewalks (0:

I put my camera behind me and pressed the button a hundred times, and only a couple came out good

Færd

@snailplane No problem. You mentioned something about as I've always done so being unacceptable?

CowperKettle

16:27

Cause I did not see what I was snapping (0:

Færd

Pretty dangerous, no? What if you slipped?

CowperKettle

Ded Moroz and Snegurochka ^^^

Russian Santa Claus and his "grand-daughter"

@Færd I slipped and fell once

Nothing serious

Anonymous

@Færd Yes. Think is stative.

Anonymous

Compare: #I'm tall, and I've always done so.

Anonymous

I'm tall, and I've always been tall. ← better

CowperKettle

16:29

A samovar of ice

With some free giveaway snacks

Anonymous

Ooh, nice.

CowperKettle

(0:

Anonymous

If you hadn't said anything, I might've guessed it was a copper kettle, made of ice :-)

CowperKettle

(0:

The City Hall

Færd

@snailplane True, but you objected to the use of as in this one:

15 mins ago, by Færd

> I will smack you for it now, as I've always done so.

CowperKettle

16:31

Anonymous

@Færd No, I objected to the use of so in the reduced comparative clause as takes as a complement.

CowperKettle

The Main Christmas Tree

Anonymous

In the other example, you had a simple coordination with and so there was no reduction necessary.

CowperKettle

Anonymous

So I didn't find anything wrong with so in the first example, but I did think do was strange referring back to think.

Færd

16:33

@snailplane I understood that one.

But I have to reread what you said about the second example.

CowperKettle

I liked this fairy-tale house

Man_From_India

Happy new year guys and girls :-) wish you a happy and peaceful year ahead.

3

CowperKettle

Namaste, Man ji! Happy New 2017!

Man_From_India

Namaste Kettle.

Just came across of an evening, and I suppose that means in an evening.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Not enough information. Could you share the complete sentence?

Man_From_India

16:39

One second

Færd

@snailplane I'm going to ask something, but you may feel like having to repeat yourself, so be warned! I'm slow; sorry.

What do you think is wrong with this one?

25 mins ago, by Færd

> I will smack you for it now, as I've always done so.

Man_From_India

> Returning to the bay, of an evening, they would look up in the direction of the hilltop balcony, as though for reassurance.

@snailplane

and I think there we can fit on an evening or in an evening both to mean the same thing.

Færd

on an evening?

Man_From_India

@Færd I think that is also in use.

Færd

On a Friday (etc) evening, sure.

On the/an evening, not so sure.

Man_From_India

16:45

@Færd yes that is common, but I think I have seen on an evening and in an evening both. And today came across of an evening :-)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India I don't understand of an evening in that sentence.

Anonymous

@Færd I don't think so should be there.

Anonymous

Unless you mean "in the way I've always done before", I suppose.

Anonymous

I understood it with the meaning "I've always smacked you for that before, and I am going to do so now as well".

Færd

Yes, that was what I meant.

So, replacing as with and removes the suggestion of "in the way I've always done before".

> I will smack you for it now, and I've always done so.

That's what I'm trying to figure out why.

Man_From_India

16:57

@snailplane I also had difficulty, but I think we can thik of it as in an evening.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Dunno. What's it from? Is it written by a native speaker?

Færd

books.google.com/…

Man_From_India

@snailplane Well no. But edited work. It's from The Glass Palace by Amitav Ghosh

@Færd thanks for now context is also available.

Færd

That's curious. More so than bare on an evening is. To me, that is.

Anonymous

Sorry, I don't know what of an evening means there.

Man_From_India

17:03

@Færd I don't know on an evening for sure, but I think I have seen it. @snailplane can confirm.

Færd

COCA confirms. But still.

Comparatively rare. Or uncommon.

Or I don't know.

Anonymous

Of an evening is a fine phrase, I just don't know what it means in that sentence.

Man_From_India

Here is one from COCA

> Of an evening you can find him sharing a meal with his kids or his father, or enjoying a snack from the grill at the country club.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India No idea

Man_From_India

What this of an evening mean?

Anonymous

17:06

I guess of an evening means 'in the evening'.

Færd

> . Of an evening, I will sit upon the library steps and ...

Man_From_India

So what would you say generally in/on/of an evening, you would find her...?

Færd

> . Of an evening you can find him sharing a meal with his kids or his father,

Anonymous

> He comes home tired of an evening, but not beazled like boys who go to plough. (1875)

Anonymous

I wasn't parsing it as tired of X, but with of an evening as an adjunct.

Anonymous

17:08

Beazled means 'worn out, exhausted'

Anonymous

> Of an evening, as soon as it begins to grow dark, . . . the Sandman comes. (1861)

Man_From_India

Hmmm that's pretty old usage. But the sentence I quoted from COCA is from 1998

Anonymous

Yes, COCA is more recent than what I'm looking at.

Man_From_India

What these sentences are from?

Anonymous

The OED

Mick

17:10

"Of an evening" means "during the evening of some [unspecified] day". The day could be in the past or in the future.

Anonymous

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/…

Man_From_India

Ah ha

Anonymous

I couldn't find a description of of an evening in the OED, but I found one in the ODE.

Anonymous

But the example sentences in the ODE don't match this usage.

Anonymous

Anyway, I don't think I've ever heard anyone use the phrase this way. It might have been more common in the past.

Færd

17:12

@Mick You're familiar with it?

Do you use it?

Man_From_India

So what would you say generally in/on/of an evening, you would find her...?

Mick

It's a very literary expression, and I'm no writer.

CowperKettle

Happy Happened New Year, @DamkerngT.! You've been living in 2017 for 14 minutes, while we are still in 2016!

Anonymous

> Some speakers of vernacular English varieties, particularly in isolated or mountainous regions of the Southern United States, use phrases such as of a night or of an evening in place of at night or in the evening, as in We'd go hunting of an evening. This of construction is used only when referring to a repeated action, where Standard English uses nights, evenings, and the like, as in We'd go hunting nights. It is not used for single actions, as in She returned at night.

Anonymous

(AHD)

Anonymous

17:15

6

A: What is the meaning, history, and current popularity of "of a Monday" (or Tuesday, or Wednesday, etc.)?

If your question is about the use of of before a day of the week, then the answer is that, at least in some varieties of British English, it is used to mean ‘at some time during, in the course of, on’. This use has its origins in Old English and has been in continuous use for 1500 years. Here are...

Anonymous

@sarah: The OED’s note on this usage says ‘Apparently taking the place of the Germanic and Old English genitive of time. Now only implying regularity or repetition.’ It’s also found in expressions such as ‘I like to have a beer or two of an evening.’ I doubt, however, if it was ever used to the total exclusion of anything else and I don’t think we can any longer consider it as being Standard English. — Barrie England Jan 10 '12 at 15:30

Mick

Sometimes, of an evening, we would stroll down to the beach and enjoy a drink at Harry's bar.

Anonymous

Interesting that Barrie England doesn't think it's Standard English anymore. Well, that would explain at least why I'm unfamiliar with it :-)

Anonymous

I guess it survives in some AmE dialects, at least.

Man_From_India

Again Snail nailed it :-)

Anonymous

17:17

Hey, I don't know what I'm talking about here. I've never heard it before today :-)

Anonymous

Just doing some research.

Man_From_India

Hehe cheers!

From the limited examples in COCA, it's clear that it's used for repeated actions.

Anonymous

That's the sense I'm getting in the original quote you brought up too.

Man_From_India

Even those OED examples you quoted confirms that this indicates repeated actions.

Mick

@Man_From_India Yes. The implication is that it is not routine.

Anonymous

17:20

I wonder if it's more common in BrE than AmE right now.

Anonymous

To the British National Corpus! :-)

Man_From_India

@Mick Are you a native speaker of AmE?

Anonymous

BYU's still being sluggish.

Mick

@Man_From_India No. BrE.

Man_From_India

Snail, so we have one view from a native BrE user.

Anonymous

17:23

Yes

Man_From_India

@Mick how common is it in everyday speech or writing?

Anonymous

It doesn't seem to be especially common in BrE writing.

Anonymous

Psst, @CowperKettle, it's ¡Feliz Año Nuevo!

Man_From_India

By the way, is Barrie England also a linguist /English teacher?

Mick

@Man_From_India It is not used in everyday English. You might find it used by the more erudite newspaper columnists. Charles Dickens used it, but it's finding examples.

Anonymous

17:27

@Man_From_India Yes

Man_From_India

Ok

Anonymous

Barrie England is a great source of information. His posts to English.SE and to ELL are very valuable.

CowperKettle

@snailplane Ah, you must know Spanish, because you're a Californian!

Man_From_India

@snailplane yes that's what I have noticed.

CowperKettle

I like the wavy thing atop of n to soften the sound

Mick

17:29

Well! I loved her, and I went on loving her, most absorbingly, entirely, and completely. But going on, too, working pretty hard, and busily keeping red-hot all the irons I now had in the fire, I would sit sometimes of a night, opposite my aunt, thinking how I had frightened Dora that time, and how I could best make my way with a guitar-case through the forest of difficulty, until I used to fancy that my head was turning quite grey.
Charles Dickens, *David Copperfield*

Anonymous

@CowperKettle "Soften" makes sense to a Russian mind, but we don't usually talk about palatalization that way in English unless we're talking to Russian linguists :-)

Anonymous

@Mick Nice example, thank you :-)

Man_From_India

@Mick ahh how much I love Dickens. His stories are great. But alas, I can't read original Dickens :(

Damkerng T.

Happy New Year 2017!

Man_From_India

Happy new year to you too @DamkerngT.

Mick

17:32

@Man_From_India He is far too descriptive for me. He leaves nothing to the imagination.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Thanks! (My system wasn't working right for almost an hour.)

Man_From_India

@Mick I love that too, but unfortunately his language doesn't make sense to me.

Damkerng T.

2

Q: usage of hyphen and en-dash

It is common to use an en-dash when we use same or opposite term such as cell–cell, Iran–Saudi Arabia, etc. My question is: "Can we use an en-dash for Iran–Gulf?" We all know that the Gulf is not a country.

I've heard only Persian Gulf. This is the first for Iran-Gulf.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Iran–Gulf, with an en dash!

Damkerng T.

With an en dash, even!

Anonymous

17:40

That is, Iran is not modifying Gulf.

Anonymous

Instead, there is a relationship between the two.

Anonymous

Arab states of the Persian Gulf

The Arab states of the Persian Gulf are the seven Arab states which border the Persian Gulf, namely Kuwait, Bahrain, Iraq, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE). All of these nations (with the exception of Iraq) are part of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). Geographically, the Arabic-speaking Gulf is solely Eastern Arabia. The borders of the Persian Gulf do not extend beyond Eastern Arabia. Hejaz, Najd and South Arabia are not part of the Persian Gulf. The Arabs of Eastern Arabia speak a dialect known as Gulf Arabic. Most Saudis do not speak Gulf Arabic because most Saudis...

Anonymous

Gulf Cooperation Council

The Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (Arabic: مجلس التعاون لدول الخليج‎‎), originally (and still colloquially) known as the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC, مجلس التعاون الخليجي), is a regional intergovernmental political and economic union consisting of all Arab states of the Persian Gulf, except for Iraq. Its member states are Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. All current member states are monarchies, including three constitutional monarchies (Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain), two absolute monarchies (Saudi Arabia and Oman), and one federal...

Anonymous

So in the phrase Iran–Gulf relations . . .

Anonymous

I would think that it means a relationship between Iran and the Arab Gulf states.

Damkerng T.

17:44

Interesting!

Færd

17:59

> Some time before he introduced himself I’d got a strong impression that he was picking his words with care.

> he had got what he deserved.

(from The Great Gatsby)

Using had got (in the past tense).

> wondering whether her mother had got to sleep in this heat.

I thought it was uncommon.

CowperKettle

V.V.

Is it midnight CK?

CowperKettle

Here, it is 50 minutes to midnight

Wow, in your city it's still 21:14

Mick

18:19

@CowperKettle Nice image! Where's it from?

CowperKettle

18:32

@Mick It's a mural from the Pyramid Alley of Giza

From one of the chambers inside a pyramid

early 12th dynasty

2200 b.c.

Mick

@CowperKettle I can see that the left-hand side might be. But why is the Assyrian archer shooting at Santa Claus?

CowperKettle

@Mick Maybe the Assyrian King conquered Santa-land?

And the mural tells this story

Arrowfar

It will be 2017 here in 15 minutes.

I don't feel a difference. Everything is same heh.

@Mick Mick are you free? I have a small preposition question.

CowperKettle

18:55

It will be 2017 here in 4 minutes

Arrowfar

Yep same here.

V.V.

Happy New!

Arrowfar

I'm hearing gunshots etc. :-)

@V.V. You too!

CowperKettle

And in my sister's city of New Delhi it is already 27 minutes into 2017

V.V.

Me in 2 hours

Arrowfar

18:57

@V.V. I was joking going to ask "New what?" :)

V.V.

New salad for the coming year.

Arrowfar

Happy new salad!

CowperKettle

Now they will start firing, and the din will last until 3 a.m. at the least.

I can safely sit and read about non-inferiority margins

Naya Saal Mubarak Ho!

Arrowfar

Thanks!

CowperKettle

(0:

Arrowfar

19:05

с новым годом!

s novym godom.

V.V.

The salad has gone with the old year.We decided to eat earlier. Oh!

CowperKettle

@Arrowfar Spasibo!

Arrowfar

:)

@Mick I read this sentence somewhere recently written by a native speaker of English “If someone needs help to commiserate let them bring up the topic first.”

I know “commiserate” means to “sympathize”. My query is why are they using “to” there? The implication seems “if someone needs help to sympathize let them bring up the topic first”.

I would write the same thing like this “If someone needs help with commiserating let them bring up the topic first.”

Should I change the sentence structure there or is it okay as it is and I am misreading it? Any thoughts?

Mick

@Arrowfar I still here (and will be for some hours).

Arrowfar

@Mick Oh great. Thanks :-)

Mick

19:11

"to commiserate" = "in commiserating"

Anonymous

To is an infinitive marker there, not a preposition.

Arrowfar

I see.

Thanks.

Mick

I know. It's sloppy English. Don't expect too much from modern British writers.

"with commiserating" is also good.

Arrowfar

okay, good. Gracias.

CowperKettle

Our new year cake

courtesy my mom

V.V.

19:17

Nice! Mine is from the shop.

CowperKettle

(0:

V.V.

How's life in 2017?

Still going on?

CowperKettle

@V.V. My stomach is so over-filled! That must mean 2017 is very good.

The first 22 minutes have been good.

Let's see what will happen next

29 minutes

Good thus far, but spent on trifles

On social networking

Arrowfar

19:34

@snailplane So how do I know when "to" is a preposition and when an infinitive marker? I don't know this because I never go into technical grammar language much and just kind of know what makes sense and is grammatical. And how would you write the same sentence by the way?

user2684291

20:02

@Arrowfar Look up "infinitive marker" (I think the term is self-explanatory anyway).

Damkerng T.

20:27

@CowperKettle Looks really great!

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. I'll pass it to my mom, thank you!

Damkerng T.

Happy New Year for you and your family!

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. All the best to you and your relatives in 2017! I hope it will be a good year for Thailand

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

CowperKettle

It might be a very tough year for Russia, but no use dwelling on that. I cannot change that. I'd better study statistics.

Damkerng T.

20:31

@CowperKettle The future hasn't come. Let's hope for the best!

Let's see if Google can handle traditional Thai New Year wishes.

!!translate/ในศุภวารดิถีขึ้นปีใหม่ ขออำนาจสิ่งศักดิ์สิทธิ์ทั้งหลายในสากลโลก โปรดดลบันดาลให้ท่านและครอบครัว ประสบแต่ความสุขเกษมสำราญ และสัมฤทธิ์ผลในสิ่งอันพึงปรารถนาทุกประการ

Ellbot

th: ในศุภวารดิถีขึ้นปีใหม่
en: Supachai time in the Lunar New Year.

Damkerng T.

Ah! It's truncated!

And mistranslated!

CowperKettle

super-tea time?

user2684291

20:46

@CowperKettle Haha.

V.V.

Ten minutes left.

CowperKettle

Yay!

V.V.

Turned on the TVset.

CowperKettle

Nooooooo!

V.V.

Silly New Year stuff

CowperKettle

20:51

(0:

V.V.

I don't usually watch TV.

Yes!

Arrowfar

Me neither. I don't even keep a TV at my home.

Damkerng T.

@V.V. Yay! :-)

V.V.

Usual speech.

Damkerng T.

And lots of fireworks, perhaps?

V.V.

20:59

Not yet

CowperKettle

I loved watching BBC World and historical programs

Arrowfar

Moscow perhaps?

V.V.

The clock strikes.

Arrowfar

Yay!

V.V.

The hymn

CowperKettle

21:04

Yay!

user2684291

The vodka.

V.V.

It has come

No, red dry wine

It's healthy.

Arrowfar

Oh, I forgot to write something, I hope no one minds, well, some people celebrate here like this... :-D

;)

CowperKettle

In Pakistan, they allow that in cities?

@V.V. Good!

I abstained today

Arrowfar

@CowperKettle During weddings sometimes. I don't know if it is legal or not though.

Stack Exchange

21:08

1

Q: Rename 'hyphens' tag to 'dash'/'dashes' (or add 'dashes' tag)?

We currently have a hyphens tag with 54 questions. Some of these questions are not about hyphens but about other types of dashes, i.e. the en dash and (sometimes) the em dash. Which of the following should be done to address this? Leave the tag hyphens as-is. Rename it to dash (or dashes sinc...

discussion tags

V.V.

Fireworks

@user2684291 .you are the next, aren't you?

Beautiful shots seen from the window

CowperKettle

21:30

Will the hats disappear when 2017 comes to the US?

good night all

Mick

the hats get put back in their boxes on January 9th

@CowperKettle Good night. Happy New Year!

user2684291

@V.V. An hour and twenty-four minutes left.

V.V.

I see.

V.V.

21:57

@user2684291 , Mick, Happy New Year! Best wishes.

Good night.

user2684291

22:13

Thanks, g'night.

Cardinal

22:23

Happy new year comrades

3

What a legendary comment:

It does sound a bit odd -- either sarcastic or morbid. The sort of thing that Prince Charles might say to his mum. — Mick 1 hour ago

0:))))

Arrowfar

22:44

Nice smiley.

That's like Cowperkettle's smiley raise to the power two.

Huh? I just saw a link somewhere about Nissan's anti-lock brake and it was labelled sexy abs. I'll be damned.

Ken Graham

@Cardinal Happy New Year to you also and everyone else.

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