Language Overflow

Færd

02:28

@snailplane PING!

Anonymous

02:49

@Færd Pong! :-)

Damkerng T.

04:29

Pang!

Au Bon Pain Proper Pronunciation (Just A JOKE!)

►

Pronunciation could give us a headache!

I usually call "Au Bon Pain" "oh-pong-pang"! :-)

CowperKettle

05:12

@snailplane (0:

yubraj sharma

Hi...

CowperKettle

Morning!

I loved movies with him. But in the movies he was killing criminals, and here he is shaking hands with a criminal.

What a shame

yubraj sharma

I'm inclined to think you haven't read what the book says—the explanation it provides is transpicuous. I would also recommend reading (non-grammar) books in English. — user2684291 9 hours ago

Anonymous

05:53

amazon.com/Mistakes-Were-Made-But-Not/dp/1491514132

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Sounds like an interesting book!

CowperKettle

@snailplane I seem to recall that you already have mentioned it once here

Sawasdee khrap peeps

Or maybe I've got a heterochronic illusion

Dysanix Official

Hello everyone! I am Dutch and I am applying for a job. I wrote a motivation letter in English and was wondering if someone could check it over for me to see if I made any weird mistakes or missed punctuation

It's really important as any error could lead to me not getting the job

Any tips or improvements would be much appreciated as well of course, but I understand that would be a more time consuming task

Anonymous

06:17

Although this isn't really a proofreading site, you could post a link to it or paste it in here, and if anyone would like to take the time they can take a look :-)

Anonymous

Alternatively, you could try a site dedicated to proofreading such as Lang-8.

Dysanix Official

Thank you very much for the heads up!

And I will post a link in case someone is interested

pastebin.com/2PeFZ9Br

There you go :)

Damkerng T.

06:30

@DysanixOfficial Apart from a tendency to combine several different things in a single sentence, I have to say, your letter is pretty good!

If I try a cruise liner some day (and I might!), I'd be glad to see they have someone like you on board. :-)

(I'm a non-native speaker, BTW.)

Dysanix Official

@DamkerngT. Thank you very much! :-) This makes me feel more confident about sending away my letter

Damkerng T.

:-)

M.A.R.

06:51

Hullo @DysanixOfficial! Welcome to our chat

@lekonchekon I do remember . . . It was just the day before Adam ate that apple.

Sorry man, I had already gone to sleep when you pinged me.

Dysanix Official

@M.A.R. Thank you!

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle Look at his face though

He can eat Putin for lunch

@snailplane But I still prefer warning people to banning multiple pings in the room after a considerable drama

CowperKettle

07:32

@M.A.R. (0:

Anonymous

I think we'll be okay. Here's what I'd like to recommend:

Anonymous

1. We don't really need to ping specific people, or sets of people, in order to ask questions. If one of us wants to ask a question, we can just ask the whole chat room, and whoever is present can answer.

Anonymous

2. But if people do get pinged, and they don't mind, that's okay too.

Anonymous

3. If someone gets pinged more than they like, please say so politely. Just say it once, and if an argument ensues, disengage. There's no reason to argue over it. Ask me the next time I'm in the room and I'll take care of it.

Anonymous

But we've been doing a nice job of staying civil in this room for a while now. I think we're all reasonably mature people who can avoid escalating conflicts :-)

Anonymous

07:39

I personally don't mind being pinged.

yubraj sharma

Nods....

I don't know the Use of As you said/mentioned....before/above/in etc As you mentioned/said in your previous comment , I Should take it into consideration/ I have understood the rules follwowed in chat room.

Is it the same use as 'since/because?Did I use it in the sentence correctly?

@snailplane

Anonymous

@yubrajsharma It's a little difficult for me to tell exactly what you want to say.

yubraj sharma

Oh !

I mean use of "As +subject+said /mentioned....in/above."

As vs since

M.A.R.

08:01

@snailplane but it's pretty surprising how some little things can turn into drama

I agree with all you said. Bookmarking it for later linking

@yubrajsharma Yes, both ''as'' and ''since'' are fine there.

Damkerng T.

I just tried Amazon Word Runner on my Android a moment ago.

And I don't like it!

Anonymous

What is Amazon Word Runner?

Damkerng T.

I don't know, maybe some people may find it useful. It seems to be nothing new, according to what I can gather around the web.

It's something called RSVP.

the-digital-reader.com/2015/09/18/…

Anonymous

Oh!

Anonymous

Right. Those aren't based on real science.

Damkerng T.

08:07

@snailplane It's a feature in their Kindle Reader on Android, perhaps on any small devices.

Anonymous

Reading doesn't work that way.

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

Anonymous

I don't know why people keep trying to make it work that way.

Damkerng T.

Beat me!

(Sorry the idiom doesn't mean what I think it means! i copy the line from some movies. :-)

Anonymous

Oh, it's actually "[It] beats me!"

Damkerng T.

08:08

Ah, I see!

Thanks!

Anonymous

The first word tends to be dropped since it's casual and primarily spoken, so it's usually subject to our good friend Conversational Deletion, or whatever you'd like to call this sort of left-edge deletion.

Anonymous

But there should be an /s/ there.

Damkerng T.

nods

I thought it was shorten from an imperative.

Anonymous

It means something like 'baffle; perplex'.

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. OK.

Beats Dam

Damkerng T.

08:12

Funny that I thought it was something like "Beat me! 'Cause after you've beaten me through, I still wouldn't know the answer. :-)

@M.A.R. Ouch!

M.A.R.

What, you literally asked for it

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

It's often followed by a subordinate wh-clause, which we might want to say is extraposed out of subject position, leaving behind the it we hear once in a while.

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. Oh, I think that would make me read single words fast, but not readings.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. You've got to try it, to see how weird it can make you feel!

M.A.R.

08:14

Like a robot?

Or like a human?

Damkerng T.

Haha!

Anonymous

Once in a while you'll hear a non-extraposed version, like "Why he was singing that song beats me."

M.A.R.

Trying to figure out whichever is weird for you

Anonymous

The OED gives a 1930 example: "Why you should have taken so much trouble about it simply beats me."

Anonymous

@M.A.R. It would cause your reading comprehension to drop.

M.A.R.

08:16

@snailplane that too

I have experience with that

Anonymous

psi.sagepub.com/content/17/1/…

2

Anonymous

Recommended, but make sure you read it without RSVP.

Damkerng T.

Haha!

M.A.R.

@snailplane So can we make an idiom today? ''Read sth with RSVP'' = ''not pay attention to what is written''

Jim, did you again read my letter with RSVP?

Jake, stop listening to my advice with an RSVP. Just get on with it.

Anonymous

By the way, Colleen and J.R. are both ahead of me on flags right now.

Anonymous

08:27

And I swear, I'm checking ELL a lot! :-)

Anonymous

But they're both very active.

Damkerng T.

Ohhh!

Anonymous

I think I'll have time to keep writing answers on ELL for a while.

Damkerng T.

Yay!

I wrote an answer yesterday, too.

Anonymous

I saw it! :-)

Damkerng T.

08:29

Thanks!

lekon chekon

Hey

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Anonymous

I would have commented about it in here or on the site, but I couldn't really think of anything to add, so I just voted and moved on.

Damkerng T.

Hehe! Thank you!

lekon chekon

09:03

@snailplane
Remember how I was asking questions concerning constructions like "Things in my neighborhood are worse than how they are in yours."?

Well, I have one more sentence I'm curious about where that one came from.

That escalated quicker than things during the time X was the president of this country
Or
That escalated quicker than how fast things escalated during the time.......
Or
That escalated quicker than how things escalated during the time.....

Are all these sentences correct?
Which of these would you use?

And anyone else is also free to express their opinion on this.

Damkerng T.

I think the recent explanation by snailplane still applies.

Some are more idiomatic than others. Some are simply just clumsy.

> You run faster than Bolt!

> You run faster than Bolt runs.

> You run faster than how fast Bolt runs.

> You run faster than how Bolt runs.

> You run faster than Bolt's best time.

0

Q: Use of "As+ subject+said/mentioned+ . . .in/before/above

Use of As+subject+said/mentioned How to use as I /you/he/she . . .said/mentioned in the sentences while writing or speaking. Is it the same as since or because for example: since/because you said that English Is a Usefull language, I have started to learn It. Can we use since instead of "As" ?...

@yubrajsharma This as is more like according to.

Personally, I think asking "How to use as I /you/he/she . . .said/mentioned in the sentences ..." makes the question too broad.

lekon chekon

09:18

You run faster than how Bolt runs.

Would you say this sentence is less clumsy?

yubraj sharma

09:37

Nods..

@DamkerngT. So do I think question is a bit broad but I don't think It's unanswerable,

You said 'It's like according to' But how ? And how it's different from 'since' ?

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma Hmm... It sounds like you think since and according to are the same. Do you really think so?

BTW, using since for because is sometimes discouraged.

You should avoid it in formal writing anyway.

yubraj sharma

I don't think 'since' and 'according to' are same but I don't know why you said this use of 'As' is the same as 'according to'.

Damkerng T.

Because As someone said is similar to "According to what someone said".

But it's probably better to understand this as as "Like".

Or better yet, understand it as "As".

Sometimes it's not very productive trying to paraphrase basic words.

Let's say there is no such word as "in" in a learner's first language, and they asked "What does this 'in' mean? Sentence: 'He put it in the box'"

It's not easy to explain what in means, don't you think?

yubraj sharma

09:56

Yes !

Damkerng T.

As is one such word.

yubraj sharma

As you mentioned in your comment, As is the same as 'Like'.

Damkerng T.

It's one of the 2000 defining-words used by Longman. pu-kumamoto.ac.jp/~rlavin/resources/wordlists/LDV.html

@yubrajsharma That's probably one good way to understand one main sense of as, assuming you know what like means.

yubraj sharma

I know what 'Like' means

You are like my brother

Damkerng T.

Okay! Then you can understand this as as "like"!

yubraj sharma

10:00

Umm...

Contextual example makes it clear to me...As

I also understand what 'In' means

Damkerng T.

Sure! I don't think you don't know in.

It was just an example.

yubraj sharma

As you said ,mentioned earlier/before/already/in/above

Damkerng T.

A good realistic example is most learners from Asia don't know what the means.

yubraj sharma

I want to understand this use of 'As'

Damkerng T.

Just read it as "like", and you should be fine.

M.A.R.

10:10

@DamkerngT. What does ''the'' mean?

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. I don't know! :-)

M.A.R.

ʕ ⊃･ ◡ ･ ʔ⊃︵┻━┻

M.A.R.

10:25

Oh, so I found the English equivalent of ''هم خدا را می خواهد هم خرما را''.

Our proverb means ''he wants both God and the date (fruit)''

Yours is ''you can't have the cake and eat it too''

Ours is technically more correct, since if I eat half my cake, I both ate it and still have it.

Damkerng T.

:D

Similar (but not identical): run with the hare and hunt with the hounds

Thai: เหยียบเรือสองแคม. Lit.: stand on both gunwales

M.A.R.

10:43

@DamkerngT. You can stand on both gunwales if you can stretch well

So Thais are bad at gymnastics?

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. It's strongly not advised to do so! :D

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. Well if you don't care about drowning, or your pants

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

yubraj sharma

11:15

Nods .... you said 'As' means "Like".......Can I say "Like I/you said/mentioned. ......before/above/earlier/in ....etc ?

Damkerng T.

11:28

@yubrajsharma Yes, you can!

yubraj sharma

Oh !

It doesn't make any difference?

Damkerng T.

Not much. It's more like standard vs. colloquial English.

yubraj sharma

Which is standard and which is colloiquial ?

Damkerng T.

Like will sound a bit more colloquial.

Just a little bit these days, I think.

yubraj sharma

11:45

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/colloquial

(of words and expressions) informal and more suitable for use in speech than in writing:

Thanks @DamkerngT.

But No one is answering my this question in ELL

@Man_From_India Hi

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma No problem. :-)

Good evening, @Man_From_India!

yubraj sharma

Good Evening! How are you

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma I'm not sure. Personally, I think it's a bit too broad, and now you already know what it means. :-)

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma ''my this question'' is non-standard.

It's passable and is used in humorous contexts in informal speech.

yubraj sharma

@DamkerngT. Yes, as you said, it means'Like' (I used 'As you said' here)

@M.A.R. It was my typo, I just realized it when you said it, I had to write "In this question'

M.A.R.

11:53

Good

yubraj sharma

@M.A.R. what about "In my this question"?

M.A.R.

Nope, still doesn't work.

It should either be ''my'' or ''this''.

yubraj sharma

Nods..

M.A.R.

Or if you need to bring 'em both, you can use ''this question of mine''

yubraj sharma

"No one is answering this question of mine"

M.A.R.

11:58

Yep, correct

yubraj sharma

@DamkerngT. I think I used "As you said" correctly

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma Yes! :-)

yubraj sharma

@DamkerngT. As you said 'yes', I'm pleased. (I think 'as' is used as 'since' here)

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma Yes, you can use it to mean "because".

yubraj sharma

That's what I was trying to say !

M.A.R.

12:05

You can do that, but I always preferred using ''since''.

You know, this isn't about grammaticality.

It's about trying to be as unambiguous as possible.

If ''X'' has two meanings and ''Y'' means one of ''X'''s meanings, and ''Y'' has only one meaning, I'd use ''Y'' more.

Dunno if it's only me or this is how most people feel

yubraj sharma

Umm ...Nods..."Using 'as' instea of 'since' is to make our statement ambiguous"

M.A.R.

No no, that's not what I meant

Anonymous

The Adamantine Law

Anonymous

3

A: "Those whose that is x" vs "Those whose that are x"?

Your base sentence is itself ambiguous. It may mean that each of the tasks with which you are concerned outputs a single new task. It may mean that each of the tasks with which you are concerned outputs multiple new tasks. It may mean that the tasks with which you are concerned participate ...

M.A.R.

I won't go as far as calling ''as'' ambiguous @yubraj, but it's indeed not conveying the meaning as fast as ''since'' does.

Esp. in some cases.

yubraj sharma

12:10

@M.A.R. oh !

M.A.R.

@snailplane And folks, that's what we learn for today

yubraj sharma

As Demk mentioned earlier, As means 'Like'

M.A.R.

-4

Q: Is the use of term "Democracy" in the moderator elections correct?

Recently it came to my attention the Moderators Elections on Stack Overflow. There was the pompous (in my opinion) term "democracy" since "we believe that the community should choose their moderators", etc. if I recall them correctly. Democracy is not an abstract term and denotes a political sy...

discussion election rules

@yubrajsharma That special meaning of ''as'' does

yubraj sharma

Nods

I'm watching a video about using "what" for emphasis in BBC Learn English

drive.google.com/file/d/0B4F1V4s4WzCTRkljaE9YSFVXVG8/…

google.com.np/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/…

Damkerng T.

Ah, you can use YouTube all right today! That's great!

My first time with Windows 10: not so bad

(on NUC)

yubraj sharma

12:30

Umm..

I'm inclined to think you haven't read what the book says—the explanation it provides is transpicuous. I would also recommend reading (non-grammar) books in English. — user2684291 16 hours ago

Will and would for natural tendency!

Could you please help me here ?

M.A.R.

I can help you there too

yubraj sharma

Ok

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma Well, you're correct in your question.

What exactly is it you doubt?

If I know that I can help you.

yubraj sharma

There are still two questions, which I think you didn't notice

Sorry for being direct

Water will boil at 100°C It won't boil at under 100°C
(How this sentence is different from- Water boils at 100'C )
I planted a vine last year but it wouldn't grow because it didn't get enough sun.
(But it wouldn't grow means= But it refused to grow?)

Færd

12:47

ldoceonline.com/dictionary/will

Sense 4

The 'would' in your second sentence is the past tense of that.

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma No problem at all. Me being a youngster and all, I believe it's much better if people are direct rather than sugar-coating.

Færd

And since it refers to what generally happens, I don't think there's a significant difference in meaning between using will or the simple present (water boils...).

M.A.R.

Except if they're going to the bathroom. O.O

Færd

But the context can affect your choice.

yubraj sharma

I'm not sure yet

M.A.R.

12:51

@yubrajsharma Regarding your first question, there are a lot of difference I can count which wouldn't be the answer you're looking for. That's why I wanted you to be more specific. ''Water will boil'' uses modals, while ''water boils'' doesn't. The sentences have too little a difference in meaning to be noticeable. Both tend to explain a general trend.

They're both not about a single event in time.

Regarding your second question, no, they're not the same. ''refused to grow'' means the plants did not grow as a single event in time.

For instance, yesterday.

You were expecting your plants to grow yesterday, but they didn't.

''they wouldn't grow'' is different.

It means they're not expected to grow

And that's not a single event in time.

You usually don't mean a specific time when you say ''they wouldn't grow''.

Færd

I misread the second sentence.

M.A.R.

@yubraj a more interesting and challenging question to ask would be to compare ''they won't grow'' and ''they wouldn't grow''.

yubraj sharma

Will refers to the future too, water will boil at.....why to use "will boil' insted of 'boils'

M.A.R.

From what I gather, this is context-dependent, but usually ''won't'' is stronger than ''wouldn't'', i.e. you're typically surer of it when you use ''won't''.

@yubrajsharma Because there is no ''instead of''. Both usages are common, and none of them is superior to the other.

But as a matter of preference, I would use ''will'' for situations that would occur if you manipulate the environment.

And this is personal preference, not solid grammar.

So since water does evaporate at room temperature, I'm more likely to say ''water evaporates'' than ''water will evaporate''

Færd

> + I'm going to boil some water in this clay pot.
> - It won't boil in that pot.
> + No, It will (boil in this pot).

M.A.R.

13:00

But since water doesn't normally boil unless you heat it, i.e. manipulate it, I'd be more likely to say ''water will boil'' rather than ''water boils''.

But that's only from a perspective where I haven't still observed something happen.

So don't be surprised if I say ''water boils''.

Since it's grammatical, and we're usually not too careful about the constructions we use in everyday speech in whatever language we speak.

yubraj sharma

I don't know why my question is still unanswered! I got close votes too

M.A.R.

Close votes aren't important

You shouldn't lose sleep because of them

What that matters is you want to learn, and that is obvious.

yubraj sharma

I don't know why my question is still unanswered! I got close votes too

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma I know why your question is still unanswered though. When you say ''what's the difference?'' the answerer remains a bit puzzled as how to answer your question. Which differences you want? Difference in meaning, difference in grammar, difference is possible extensions of the sentence, difference in interpretations in context, or what?

So you either get an incomplete answer or the question remains unanswered.

yubraj sharma

13:18

Nods..

I'm going to specify it

The difference is about meaning

CowperKettle

17:11

Turns out Fidel Castro died today

He visited our city in the 1960s

My mother's shool cancelled classes, and they all ran to Sverdlova street to see the car cavalcade

Some young pioneers had flags to waive

Wait.

It was university, not school

photos and videos

Færd

17:46

thinks about the differences between cavalcade, parade, and procession.

Damkerng T.

0

A: "To have " vs "Having " as parfect infinitive and gerund

No, "to have last played" is not a participial phrase but an infinitive phrase, and it cannot modify a verb phrase, as participle phrase can. John, having played 90 minutes without rest, was winded. John, to have played 90 minutes without rest, was winded.ungrammatical John was winded...

Hmm...

> You ask:
what's the problem with the following sentence of my last post which is wrong according to a commenter?
Jones is the latest player having signed with Barcelona.
The correct form is
Jones is the latest player to have signed with Barcelona.

So, Jones is the latest player having signed with Barcelona is really wrong?

Anonymous

20:19

@DamkerngT. Err, maybe not . . . ? But I like to have better.

Anonymous

Not sure what to think of the version with having.

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