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15:00
That's the point, we can't predict how the AI will change the world. I don't say it will be for the better.
So they can't evolve, or be better than us.
They have a strong incentive to evolve
No offense Dam
@CowperKettle But we haven't created something that could create more of itself, and that's the problem.
That's why they're not pushing science to its limits.
That's why all they can be is an ugly set of chips that beats humans in only one thing.
@DEAD Artificial organisms have been created.
@CowperKettle For varying definitions of organism.
And still highly limited compared to humans.
15:02
@DEAD Bacteria with a DNA code written from scratch
One could question whether robots can really be better than humans if they could do all that humans could.
They will not be better, just more efficient at doing the same.
You can't expect four billion years of toughened evolution to be beaten this easily.
It's not "beaten", its the continuation of the same evolution.
@CowperKettle But not sheep.
15:03
It's early years yet.
I know, and that's why I'm saying the sheep won't happen this soon.
In several year's time it will be possible to simulate the brain in a supercomputer on a cellular level.
Things like that just don't fly from the sky like Newton's apple.
They take time to build.
What I'm saying, is that all the easy inventions and discoveries have been made.
Was it Newton's apple or the apple's Newton?
Now we're left with the tough ones, so it's not like we'd have flying cars in 2020.
Funny thing is, Cowp, I remember some reputed site say in 2010 that 2020 will bring us flying cars.
15:05
There are already bacteria - programmed to produce olive oil in a vat. Instead of planting trees and waiting for 20 years, you put a vat, say, on a polar circle and voila.
@DEAD The point is there were not so easy at the time when they were invented
Now, after being able to make it to 2016, do you think that'd happen in four years?
@CowperKettle Whose brain? Einstein's? ... perhaps useful. Bill Gates'? ... marginal. Donald Trump's ... eew. Who's programming this machine?
@DEAD The flying car is a red herring.
@Cardinal But they were there, ready to be discovered.
15:06
The Blue Brain Project is an attempt to create a synthetic brain by reverse-engineering mammalian brain circuitry. The aim of the project, founded in May 2005 by the Brain and Mind Institute of the École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) in Switzerland, is to study the brain's architectural and functional principles. The project is headed by the founding director Henry Markram and co-directed by Felix Schürmann and Sean Hill. Using a Blue Gene supercomputer running Michael Hines's NEURON software, the simulation does not consist simply of an artificial neural network, but involves a...
@DEAD I do not agree
You can't just treat atoms like they're falling onto your head.
@StoneyB Just an empty generic brain for starters
They recreated the basic cytoarchitectonic column years ago.
@CowperKettle Who's teaching it, then?
@Cardinal Yes they were, compared to the 20th century discoveries.
Did a Uranium atom just fell on Einstein's head?
15:07
@StoneyB It's not yet finished. I dunno who will 'teach' it. (0:
Or did he waste his life, and used the experience of countless people before him, to be respected like he is today?
You have to admit, Newton neither had his life destroyed, nor he used much of past experiences.
So what Newton came up with was easier to fetch than Einstein's.
@DEAD I didn't talk about the Newton
@StoneyB Who is teaching Flickr's neural net? The people who upload the photos.
The brain might decide to spend all its time playing Pokemon
@Cardinal Don't use articles with names.
15:09
The net has an impressive ability to sort your photos.
@CowperKettle QED
You press a button, and it's "Here are cats, here are kids, here are nature views"
It was impossible 20 years ago
@Cardinal What evidence do you need, then, to admit that people of past times had an easier time coming up with discoveries than us?
Although the concept of relativity was very common among the scientists before Einstein, he was just the right person in the right moment !
Obviously, I'm only taking the knowledge into account. The societies of that time were different.
@Cardinal That's not true at all.
15:11
@DEAD The very obvious one: there was no computer that they could use them
Yes, I listened to Einstein's biography, and it was told that he was ahead of the time by decades.
@Cardinal After 1850, things changed. The real scientists didn't work in isolated labs in dirty rooms. They did collaborative effort.
Yes, Einstein is credited much more than Planck, but that doesn't devalue what he did.
@Cardinal This is not relevant to how hard it is to come up with a new invention at all.
I was talking about the knowledge, not the available accessories.
How likely is it to come up with as revolutionary discovery as fission?
@DEAD Fission wasn't revolutionary as a 'discovery'; what made it revolutionary was engineering.
The modern physic didn't start with Einstien
@Cardinal Neither did the quantum one, but how is that relevant to the discussion?
15:18
I was related to my previous statement about reletivity
However, I think the basic rules are very old
They founded long times ago
For me, To be a scientist when the society is absolutely bigot is enough to be persuaded that in the past people had more problems than today.
As an Engineer, I am fascinated by euler and his legacy
"A story has been thought through to its end when it has taken the worst possible turn." -Friedrich Dürrenmatt, "Dramaturgical Reflections on The Anabaptists"
> 12 weeks of the blind administration of the drug in full dosage (can we say it like this?)
"at" full dosage, I think.
ah! thank you!
He was so passionate, extraordinary perverse and prolifegate.
When you consider the world on that time, you will admit that they did have difficulties
15:25
sorta like "at its highest setting", "at full speed"
I googled for "in full dosage" and almosted dropped it. "At full dosage" indeed is found
@Cardinal Euler?
@CowperKettle Yes
@Cardinal I admit they had difficulties, but those difficulties were because of where and when they lived in, not because of the knowledge they were after.
@Cardinal I never heard that he was "perverse"
That's why I think the human race will not advance as fast as you think.
And that's what all this debate with Cowp is about.
15:26
I'm gonna go work on my tree-drawer, once I figure out determiners. Don't release the monsters til I'm safely away.
@CowperKettle Oh-my bad I thought it means persevering attitude, sorry
@Cardinal Ah. (0:
@DEAD The point is things have become so technical
I cannot understand the new discoveries. That does not mean there is no discovery
@StoneyB See you!
I'm not saying there isn't.
15:29
Exactly. There are trainloads of discoveries.
Just that the big discoveries are further away than you think.
Gravitational waves have been discovered this year
So?
Great discoveries are made in brain anatomy and neuroscience.
Whole unkwnown systems have been discovered.
What part of your daily life has changed due to gravitational waves' discovery?
15:30
It is very very big discovery
Look at how long ago neutrinos were discovered.
Have we ever used them?
We just justified our formulas further with them.
They have advanced our understanding of basic laws, probably.
@Cardinal Why? Because it's a major phenomenon?
That might improve some satellite communication etc.
@DEAD That is how this world works, you must build a house on a basis
15:31
And that might affect us all.
Could you imagine a house constructed on nothing?
@Cardinal I know. I'm not saying there is no use to the discoveries.
I'm just saying that you can't expect to reach stars as soon as you think you can.
We overestimated how fast we'd be able to push science.
The pace hasn't reduced, but we're worrying about details we didn't before.
And that's why the scientists don't come up with weird machines much anymore.
Partly, it's also because the educational systems over the world unintentionally, and sometimes intentionally, suppress creativity.
> Wisdom enough to leech us of our ill
Is daily spun; but there exists no loom
To weave it into fabric; undefiled
Proceeds pure Science, and has her say; but still
Upon this world from the collective womb
Is spewed all day the red triumphant child.
And because the whole world will know about whatever major thing you make, there is a new distinction to be made.
The distinction between making something and making something for the whole world.
@DEAD Because it corroborates that somewhere in the universe is experiencing curvature. I don't have enough knowledge, but my room mate who is physicist was telling me that that could be the biggest discovery of the last decade
15:35
How long till perfectly synthesized brain do get into people's lives?
@Cardinal BUT IT'S FAR FROM PRACTICE DAMMIT
How many times do I have to say that?
@DEAD I think, that is because we progressed to much
Now you're saying what I'm just saying.
Science these days doesn't get you cool gadgets. Industry does.
And thing the science hasn't come up with yet are too far to be industrialized.
I mean the comparison between now and Newton's time is unfair
we should consider their previous education
Their society situation
And their academic communities
Today we can easily rule out many theories using very complicated simulations
@Cardinal Uh, just, nevermind.
I think Einstein, Euler, .. are just the right person at the right moment
15:41
I'm comparing the knowledge that was to be discovered, not the people.
They are not only super intelligent people
@Cardinal Not just the right people, but people with the right minds.
@Cardinal It's not about intelligence.
It's about seeing what the world never did.
It's about having such an open mind to accept new propositions as facts.
@DEAD nods
Who said that science should just progress on and on. It might stop for a millenium or a couple.
@CowperKettle nods
I think we were successful to justify somethings. There a lot more which are unjustified.
16:28
When I google for CUA MRI, I get lots of Vietnamese sites
No, the comma is not informal, it is worse than that - it is actually incorrect and ungrammatical. The content clause that follows is predicative since it's functioning as complement to "is" and, as you rightly say, the clause subordinator "that" is optional with predicative content clauses. — BillJ 7 hours ago
Hmm...
That's something to think about.
In any case, anything written in Rich Dad may be out of the scope laid by CGEL.
> We exclude from consideration what we refer to as special-purpose varieties of the language. Newspaper headlines, road signs, notices, and the like have their own special styles of abbreviation (Man bites dog, arrested; EXIT ONLY THIS LANE), and we do not provide a full treatment of the possibilities. Likewise, we do not provide a description of any special notations (chemical formulae, telephone numbers, email addresses) or of the special language found in poetry, heraldic descriptions, scientific works, chemical compound naming, computer jargon, mathematical proofs, etc.
17:05
The crab-eating macaque (Macaca fascicularis), also known as the long-tailed macaque, is a cercopithecine primate native to Southeast Asia. It is referred to as the cynomolgus monkey in laboratories. It has a long history alongside humans; they have been alternately seen as agricultural pests, sacred animals in some temples, and more recently, the subject of medical experiments. The crab-eating macaque lives in matrilineal social groups with a female dominance hierarchy, and male members leave the group when they reach puberty. They are opportunistic omnivores and have been documented using tools...
have you seen these, Dam?
Nice. They even use tools.
I was translating a sentence..
> We conducted both preclinical in-vivo studies that involved Macaca fascicularis and a direct comparison with the original drug.
Nafovanny in Vietnam is the largest captive-breeding primate facility in the world, supplying long-tailed macaques (Macaca fascicularis) to animal testing laboratories, including Huntingdon Life Sciences in the UK and Covance in Germany. == Background == Nafovanny was set up in 1994 by Vanny Chian Technology, a Hong Kong company, according to Reuters. The company is reported to have set up a U.S.$2 million joint venture company, called Nafovanny, with Vietnam's Forestry Ministry, with the intention of creating a network of monkey farms in southern Vietnam. Responding to criticism of the project...
> In 2014, 21,768 crab-eating macaques were imported in the United States to be used in experimentation.
A few animal studies have suggested that prostitution exists among different species of non-human animals such as Adélie penguins and chimpanzees. Penguins use stones for building their nests. Based on a 1998 study, media reports stated that a shortage of stones led female Adélie penguins to trade sex for stones. Some pair-bonded female penguins copulate with males who are not their mates and then take pebbles for their own nests. Chimpanzees who appear to be trading food for sex have also been described as engaging in prostitution. == PenguinsEdit == Prostitution in animals was first reported...
Poor monkeys.
@CowperKettle I know some kinds of monkeys, but I don't know which is called crab-eating macaque.
A-ha! ลิงแสม
@CowperKettle If you watched The Hangover 2, there's a monkey delivering drugs in the movie! I think the monkey is of this species!
@CowperKettle Ahh... sad
17:25
Yes, industrial-scale testing on which the whole pharma industry rests.
@DamkerngT. I recall watching Hangover 1. (0:
I started to watch Hangover 2 but stopped for some reason.
Too explicit? :)
@DamkerngT. Don't worry, they're just speeding up Rise of The Planet of the Apes.
@DEAD Haha!
@DamkerngT. Probably. I recall the mention of a guy having sex with a guy. I thought: and this is only the start of the film. (0:
17:28
@CowperKettle =)) , I would do the same
@Cardinal I did like the Brokeback Mountain, because it was not as explicit.
@CowperKettle To be honest, I had that kind of thought too (not to mention that the movie was set in Thailand). Then I let go, and watched it as a movie.
You know, it gives me a feeling that they are using those techniques to absorb people to watch, that disappoints me.
@CowperKettle :-)
@Cardinal I'm more concerned about how people in the world may think of Thailand after watching the movie. (FWIW, many things in the movie aren't true.)
@DamkerngT. They will know that's just a movie. Just like that moment in Armageddon where a Russian astronaut flies in a fur hat inside a space station.
17:34
@CowperKettle Hehe!
@DamkerngT. Oh, I didn't see the movie. I think normal people wouldn't judge a country based on a comedy
nods -- Thanks!
I had the same feeling after I saw some scenes of 300
@Cardinal It's a movie based on a comic, which in turn based on a historical event. So I don't know how much of the movie is true. Probably very little.
17:39
Was "300" any good?
Never mind, there are more beautiful things to think. Lets ave our energy :-)
@CowperKettle I was excited to see it, but I read the reviews and didn't.
@CowperKettle I think it's visually good, but you may or may not like the style.
(It always makes you think you're watching a comic, rather than a movie, somewhat like Sin City in this respect.)
@CowperKettle Heh, Herodotus, world's first ever troll
17:46
@DEAD Why 'troll"?
Good evening, @Avi!
Trolls engage you while they don't believe in either side of the argument.
The definition fits.
It was a Joke. khashayar shah, (Xerxes) ,was one of the powerful man in the history. Her wife is Esther who is very respectful for Jews even today. He had one of the greatest army that ever existed in the world. In the movie only 300 Greek guys beat him which is something more than a Joke to a Persian guy.
I can't blame him.
History back then, was like reporting news today.
Hyperbole and overstatements all over it.
@Cardinal They did not beat him 100%, just delayed his advance
Evening @CowperKettle.
:-)
17:48
@CowperKettle I said I didn't see the movie completely
however, I do not proud of his war with greek
Can we use the word abandon to mean stop sopporting and seeing in this sentence? Her family abandoned her after she decided to become a graphist instead of being a doctor.
Herodotus writes quite respectfully of Persians, by the way
He burned Athena, provoked by the queen and the queen's uncle
17:49
Or maybe there is a better word?
@CowperKettle I knew, but make exaggerations, too
@Avicenna IMHO, "abandoned" is okay
@Avicenna You might try "cut ties with her"
@Cardinal He was a man with no strategy.
Not the only instance of the Persian kings
This is why monarchy sucks.
@CowperKettle this is more common?
You get a couple of deserving people as kings, and after a couple of generations, it devolves into a hiatus of family issues.
17:52
@Avicenna No, I just offered an alternative! I'm not sure which is more 'natural'
@DEAD I see, I wanted to mention that the person behind the war was not the king, but the queen!
@DEAD Exactly
@CowperKettle I see. Thank you.
Cyrus's grandchildren would've fallen soon if not by Alexander's hands.
@Avicenna "her family disowned her"
However, That a Jew was the queen is very meaningful!
17:53
@Avicenna "her family gave up on her"
@Avicenna Another possibility is desert.
Good evening, Snails!
@Cardinal Don't think so.
Why? Did you forgot WW2? what they did to Jews?
We cannot imagine what really drove the events at 480 B.C.
17:56
There is an interesting discussion to be had about the Persians' beliefs back then, but that wouldn't concern Judaism in any way.
It was another era. It was okay to plunder enemies etc.
@Cardinal How are the two related, except that we learn them in a history class?
@CowperKettle @DamkerngT. Thank you. You're really helpful! :-)
My pleasure!
@CowperKettle It's still okay to plunder enemies, but politicians do it figuratively nowadays.
@CowperKettle Heh, I know.
17:57
@Avicenna You're welcome! Kettle never abandons his attempts to help!
2
But his writings are intermingled with myth.
He wasn't a reporter, but a Harry Potter storyteller.
That means we were very civilized and coexisted peacefully; that means tolerance that we cannot see even in modern countries these days. That is very meaningful to me
@CowperKettle A star for that!
bows down
@Cardinal Of course countries coexisted peacefully. It was only the governments that were at war.
17:59
Leaders make wars. People suffer.
> Preclinical studies whose list of species included Macaca fascicularis (serving as models of collagen-induced arthritis and autoimmune encephalomyelitis) showed the presence of specific anti-inflammatory effect and a lack of systemic toxicity of DRUG, which allowed clinical studies in humans to begin. (I wonder what are alternatives for "whose list of species included")
Robots are the solution. :P
Vote Bender!
18:01
Oh, no! Not this Bender!
@DamkerngT. Nice one, robot! We might update your cores to do philosophy
Oops, did I just give it away that . . .
@DamkerngT. Not always, Nazi people did really think Jews are inferior; they were people. However, our queen was a Jew in 480 B.C;
@CowperKettle haaha
Jews were probably viewed just as any other nation (people?) in 480 BC
I didn't want to talk about this negative points, though
@Cardinal If you plant beliefs on people, you can make them do anything you want.
18:05
@CowperKettle Yes, they were captive who freed by Koroush the Great
@Cardinal Jews were then in Persian captivity? I poorly know their history.
The proof does not go further past; the wahhabis believe that anyone that doesn't agree 100 percent with them should be killed.
IS terrorists are made of the same meat as you are.
Ah, they were freed by Kurush
> Cyrus the Great liberated the Jews from the Babylonian captivity to resettle and rebuild Jerusalem, earning him an honored place in Judaism.
Wow.
@CowperKettle I remember Cyrus headed to Jerusalem to . . . Gotcha
@CowperKettle He sure knew how to win hearts.
@CowperKettle Maybe of which species list.
18:07
That's a king.
@DamkerngT. Thank you!
No problem!
He knew what real money was.
I only become sad when talking about those days; Let it go
It's not getting to other side of the world, then drinking liquor and dying at the age of 33.
@Cardinal Why?
18:10
(0:
There's nothing to be remorseful about.
What question is our hot question today?
Dunno..
@DamkerngT. "Who's gonna make me a sandwich?"
That's off-topic, I'm sure!
18:12
These days I'm not so sure anymore.
I sometimes head to meta and make myself believe I'm gonna be improving something with what I type, but apparently not.
@DEAD Let it go, let's talk about something related to English and Todays
3
Q: Do we want word-s or sentence-s in our tags?

DEADI'm thinking of organizing something big. This is the last match, and I'd try my hardest to finally beat tags. This post might be the first of the many to come. We need to know what we want our tags to be, this time step by step. The main question of this series of posts is What kind of class...

Look at this.
It's rotting.
No exposure.
No meaningful contribution.
How am I supposed to help fix the tag system this way?
I should prolly also come up with more creative ways to express my frustrated rant,
but I'm even too tired for that now.
The election ended, and I hoped meta would be active for at least a couple of more days.
> For assessment of toxicological properties of the drug common experimental methods recommended for preclinical studies were used.
18:17
But work is boring; let's instead congratulate mods we voted for but didn't even know.
I did an up-vote for you @DEAD, wish it helps :-)
@Cardinal Thank you
But I'm not sure what the heck I'm even doing on meta.ELL.
People aren't interested in helping clean the tag mess. PERIOD.
I'll go and do some homework. Goodnight! Cyrus rulez!
I guess it should stay that way, huh?
@CowperKettle \o
FWIW, I think of word-meaning as something like comparative meanings of words, whereas sentence-meaning is more like "reading comprehension". Just meaning alone may cover both word- and sentence-meaning.
@CowperKettle Good night!
18:21
@CowperKettle good night o/
@DEAD I guess tags come after titles and question bodies, and look at our titles and bodies.
@DamkerngT. Not many people helped with the titles either.
One easy possible solution is give people some reps and badges when they do these things.
> "Mountain" sound track has started on the player
That would be considered abuse with the current system.
18:27
@Cardinal I think it needs an article, and I'm not sure why, but I don't want to use the perfect aspect in that sentence.
@DamkerngT. If it were just "Mountain", it wouldn't need an article.
But since the head is "soundtrack", it needs a definite article.
@Cardinal Soundtrack is a single word. No spaces.
Argh. My bad shift key has caused me a long of typographically wrong use-mention distinctions.
@Cardinal Noice
@DamkerngT. Is the film named Mountain?
Zimmer is the most creative of them all.
His scores are always something different.
18:33
@CowperKettle (0:
@JimReynolds I have no idea. The sentence is not mine.
Williams and Shore are kewl, but my favorite is always Zimmer.
I deleted because that version was a remixed version
I have the .Flac version on my phone :p
@Cardinal What is named Mountain? A film, or a song/piece?
Aug 28 at 18:15, by DEAD
Now you're just showing off
18:35
@JimReynolds Oh, sorry. No it is a soundtrack; it is a music used in the movie "interstellar"
My beloved movie.
To counter, Card, I have the Batman trilogy, Man of Steel, Inception and The Last Samurai on my tablet.
EAT IT
@DEAD A long of them, huh?
@JimReynolds O.O
How did I type long instead of lot
@DEAD Yes, Indeed. Nolan and Zimmer have some other works.
Maybe a mod is messing with you
18:36
@DEAD That happens to me often enough in chat!
Like, "Huh? Did I really type that?!?"
@JimReynolds :v
@JimReynolds :x
@DamkerngT. Did I really typo that?
@Cardinal How did you cause it to be played?
18:39
@Cardinal I can't wait for Dunkirk!
@JimReynolds Magix
I mean, were you listening to the whole soundtrack, then Mountain just came on?
@DEAD It sounds sort of like my name, don't you think? :)
@JimReynolds I have movie soundtracks files separated from the movie, very high quality ones
.FLAC
@DamkerngT. Yah, the protagonist must be an ASIMO-like bot.
Was it one of many songs you have on a playlist, and it just came on?
18:40
Aug 28 at 18:15, by DEAD
Now you're just showing off
But I don't think your optimism survives the dark worlds Nolan creates, Dam.
Or did you just choose the song and start it playing?
@DEAD Haha!
No, I thought It was necessary to say that
18:41
@JimReynolds Would you mind, we're fangirling here.
@DEAD haha
@JimReynolds Yes, almost, the previous song was Cornfield Chase :)
Then the present perfect is ok, but not conventional.
nods
Mountain just came on my player.
18:44
I think the original soundtrack can be heard here:
Oh, that non-mountain!
Mountains from the Interstellar soundtrack just started playing.
@DamkerngT. :-)
@DEAD Maybe Nolan's film(s) won't survive @Dam's optimism
@JimReynolds But then critics would vote the film down as shallow.
18:51
@DEAD I think a new Inception is going to come. I've heard something about that.
Inception 2?
yes, something like that
So not Inception 2?
Or a prequel: Preconception.
Postception?
The exact same film made again: Reception.
Why some guys' account appear in this shape:
18:54
American agents.
What is wrong with them?
@DEAD I am not sure, I think it was inception 2.
@JimReynolds It's an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. ;-)
Anonymous
@Cardinal That user has an account on EL&U, but no account on ELL.
@JimReynolds Which movie do you like? What is your favorite movie?
@snailplane Thanks (^_^)/
Anonymous
Stack Exchange doesn't automatically create an account on the target site when a question is migrated.

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