Language Overflow

Araucaria

00:11

@StoneyB Hmm, didn't get pinged ... It's complicated stuff! There's the position, but there's also the shape of the groove for /s, z, ʃ, ʒ/, where it's deeper and longer runs further to the front of the tongue for /s, z/ than for /ʃ, ʒ/. ...

... For the dentals /θ, ð/ there's no groove, but a slit instead where the tongue meets the teeth and the air escapes over a more diverse area. For /ʃ, ʒ/ it's halfway between a /s, z/ and a dental - the air escapes over a more diverse area than with /s, z/ but less than with /θ, ð/. What's the key factor? I don't know!

bjb568

00:32

@StoneyB That's really some accent…

I've listened to 6m of it, and it's as if it's in another language. It's interesting because of the emotion put into the dialog, but I can only understand half of it. o_0

> Lawk heem in thuh wehst rooom!

> o'er the heels… he's coming to steeel yer hehns!

Damkerng T.

04:08

@ColinFine I know, but I am writing to an Italian person form Milan, so it is better to use the Italian name — sarah 2 hours ago

That's an interesting choice!

CopperKettle

> Computer code written by women has a higher approval rating than that written by men - but only if their gender is not identifiable, new research suggests.

Nice..

Damkerng T.

05:36

I'm gender-blind when reading code.

skull petrol

I'm gender-blind when on the internet.

Damkerng T.

:D

skull petrol

:D

Damkerng T.

It's hard to tell who is who anyway.

skull petrol

Yep.

Shouldn't a "black hole" be called a "black well"?

And a rabbit hole should be a rabbit tunnel.

nvm

Damkerng T.

06:06

And a "wormhole" should be a "wormsphere"!

skull petrol

Why "sphere"?

I see, a sphere is also a "hollow place" :)

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

I heard an argument for "wormsphere" in Interstellar.

skull petrol

I see.

Damkerng T.

> In two-dimensional diagrams, the wormhole mouth is shown as a circle. Seen in person, a wormhole would be a sphere. A gravitationally distorted view of space on the other side can be seen on the sphere's surface.
http://www.space.com/27692-science-of-interstellar-infographic.html#sthash.DkZ06mgZ.dpuf

skull petrol

Thanks for sharing, pal.

Damkerng T.

06:15

No problem. :D

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Reminded me of the Russian saying drilled upon kids to make them stop talking while eating. "Kogda ya yem, ya glukh I nem" (When I'm eating, I'm deaf and mute).

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Hehe!

IͶΔ

@CopperKettle Hey, we have the literal translation of that as a proverb here!

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ Neat!

IͶΔ

I think Russia and Iranian culture have quite a bit in common.

Since, well, throughout the history when they weren't attacking us we were attacking them.

Damkerng T.

06:26

Hah!

Huh? There is another Kung Fu Panda sequel?

I must've missed its news!

1

Q: Why do native speakers sometimes use “dispel with something” instead of using "dispel something"?

Dispel is defined as a transitive verb in dictionaries. But I notice native speakers sometimes use "dispel with something" instead of using "dispel something". I just came across this sentence said by presidential candidate Sen.Marco Rubio, Let’s dispel with this fiction that Barack Obama do...

Another language change?

Anonymous

06:49

@DamkerngT. My guess is a blend with dispense with. It seems that dispense is 600x more likely to be followed by with than dispel.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I'm gasping at the chart!

> "To see through this is the acceptance that we are living through our judgements and that we can dispel with them if we choose."

The first non-false positive I found in Google Books.

Anonymous

Oh, you're right, I didn't account for false positives. I should have said at least six hundred times more likely.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... the chart looks rather stable even with smoothing of 0.

Anonymous

Thanks for pointing that out!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Ah, I didn't actually mean to point that out. :D

I was rather surprised that the chart looks so stable.

Anonymous

06:55

I use a smoothing of 50 over a range of 50 years (or less) when I want to know the ratio across a larger sample and I'm not interested in the change from year to year. When the data is sparse, the year-to-year information can just be noise, best ignored.

Damkerng T.

(Which implies that dispel with has been used not only recently.)

Anonymous

It's definitely not a common thing to say. My guess is it's an error, but we could look at usage to see how well established it is.

Damkerng T.

A-ha! You chopped it off at 1950!

Anonymous

Something can be uncommon but still established usage.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

06:57

@DamkerngT. I wasn't interested in the chart, just the number :-)

Damkerng T.

I was looking for its trend. And I thought it had been like that since 1800 the first time I looked at the chart. :P

@snailboat BTW, I've noticed that I use uptalk more and more often! (I think it's a bit weird when I listen to my own and find that the way I speak changes.)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. books.google.com/ngrams/…

Anonymous

I think the data might be too noisy to draw any conclusions.

Damkerng T.

07:12

nods -- It (dispel with) looks more or less stable, I'd say. I guess the chart for (dispense with) would look like an uptrend with smoothing of 3-5.

Oh, it doesn't look like an uptrend!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. We'd have to work out how many false positives there are first.

Damkerng T.

I guess, a lot. :D

Anonymous

Note that COCA has zero matches for dispel with: corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=45150198

CopperKettle

07:54

Good noon, @snailboat!

I would say that the yellow foam is either the froth that floats on the waves (created by the wind) and gets blown around, or the spray off of a white cap (the colour can change depending on what's in the water) and the dome is the huge swell of an unbroken wave. — Peter 20 hours ago

dome = wave? O_O

I thought that "dome" meant "the firmament"

I mean, the sky, in that poem.

CopperKettle

08:09

@IͶΔ I have the feeling that maybe I have already mentioned that saying, and you have already said that!

A deja vu.

skull petrol

Why the "deaf" part?

CopperKettle

I guess because "deaf" goes with "mute".

In English, there was an (the? oh, shucks) expression "deaf and dumb"

IͶΔ

@CopperKettle O_O

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle I'm not 100% sure, but I think it makes more sense to read (Upon) this huge and heaving dome as the sea rather than the sky. Overall, I agree with Peter in his answer.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. I was certain that it meant "the sky".. strange.

When we say "dome", we usually don't mean "floor" but "the walls and the ceiling".

Damkerng T.

08:16

nods -- I think upon makes me think of something below us.

CopperKettle

But you can paint a picture "upon the wall".

Damkerng T.

True, that.

IͶΔ

You can also paint a picture up on the wall.

Damkerng T.

Also, this huge and heaving dome as a singular NP supports the "sky" interpretation, IMHO.

Oscar Wilde surely knew what he meant. :-)

CopperKettle

@skullpetrol "deaf and dumb" used to mean "deaf and mute", but since deaf and mute people often lacked education, it might've transitioned to meaning "stipid" (I mean, dumb)

> Old English dumb "silent, unable to speak," from PIE *dheubh- "confusion, stupefaction, dizziness," from root *dheu- (1) "dust, mist, vapor, smoke," and related notions of "defective perception or wits.

> Meaning "foolish, ignorant" was occasionally in Middle English, but modern use (1823) comes from influence of German dumm. Related: dumber; dumbest.

> I have a rendezvous with Life,
In days I hope will come,
Ere youth has sped, and strength of mind,
Ere voices sweet grow dumb.

skull petrol

08:19

Thanks @CopperKettle now it makes sense :-)

Damkerng T.

The three wise monkeys.

IͶΔ

Wise?

This chat is getting weirder every moment.

CopperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

"See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil." -- Sounds wise to me. :D

skull petrol

Each is wise in their own way.

Damkerng T.

08:21

BTW, it's a year of monkey this year.

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. So the world is evil?

CopperKettle

And it was Valentine Day yesterday.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Yay! Happy Valentine's Day, everyone!

@IͶΔ If I understand the monkeys correctly, it doesn't mean that the world is not evil, but it's our choice to choose to see, hear, speak as such.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes. (0: I blew the opportunity to confess my love to @snailboat, now I'll have to wait another 364 days.

IͶΔ

Mhm, no wonder they had to rise to make dawn of the planet of the Apes.

Damkerng T.

08:23

@CopperKettle Too slow! :P

CopperKettle

Yep. (0:

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ Prolly!

skull petrol

Actually, @CopperKettle 365 days.

IͶΔ

Yeah, this year is 366 days I think.

Damkerng T.

Ah, right!

thecourier.co.uk/news/local/angus-the-mearns/…

> An Angus woman has taken advantage of the leap year tradition a little early by popping the question on Valentine’s Day.

When we've got a Valentine's Day in a leap year. :-)

skull petrol

08:34

I don't get it.

Valentine's Day is every year.

Is their a tradition to only propose on leap years?

Damkerng T.

Yes!

skull petrol

I see.

Damkerng T.

I think it's normally on February 29, so it's a little early, but I think the Valentine's Day made it appropriate. :-)

skull petrol

I guess that gives you an extra day to think about it.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

skull petrol

08:59

@DamkerngT. I see arrow far has had a little rant in the elu room.

Damkerng T.

Better keep it there.

skull petrol

indeed

IͶΔ

@skullpetrol Shhh

Some people can't change. Some people won't want to change.

The only thing left for us is to be as drama-evading as possible.

Araucaria

10:45

@StoneyB Actually Stoney, I've realised that this could of course be an archiphoneme. We can't get any of the prefortis-clipping effect that a /t/ would have, and of course a /d/ would be devoiced after a voiceless sound. The only way to tell would be the length of the hold phase (I believe). This might well be neutralised here too ...

Damkerng T.

Word of the Day: archiphoneme

:-)

CopperKettle

11:03

@skullpetrol Oh...

But I found a great Valentine Card.

Damkerng T.

I'm sure @IͶΔ'd love it when he sees it.

IͶΔ

Loves it when sees it

Damkerng T.

:D

Damkerng T.

12:04

> oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/have_1

> 12. (also have got) have something (not used in the progressive tenses) to suffer from an illness or a disease. I've got a headache.

> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/have
Don't use a progressive form to say that someone has an illness or disease. For example, don't say 'She is having a bad cold'.

Hmm...

But shouldn't She was having a headache be fine?

PEU also says a similar thing.

> 237.2 Progressive forms of have are not used for these meanings.

> She has three brothers. (NOT ~~She is having three brothers.~~)

> Do you have a headache? (NOT ~~Are you having a headache?~~)

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Uh, I've heard this a lot.

Maybe not from native speakers. Shrugs

Damkerng T.

0

Q: I've been having/I have had a headache since I woke up

I've been having a headache since I woke up. vs I've had a headache since I woke up. English Grammar in Use suggests the latter. But what should I do if I want to emphasize the painful feeling rather than just the state?

present-perfect past-simple

If I'm not mistaken, the two answers by native speakers imply that I've been having a headache (since ...) is just fine.

tchrist

I've had a terrible headache.

Damkerng T.

@tchrist Get well soon!

tchrist

@DamkerngT. Ever since that notion was suggested as being just fine.

Damkerng T.

12:14

LOL

tchrist

> I've been having bad headaches every morning for a year now.

So the construction is possible, but it needs to be used in sentences where something habitual is happening.

Damkerng T.

That's a much better explanation!

tchrist

You cannot use it for the one where you've had a headache since you got up.

usingenglish.com/forum/threads/…

Dang it.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

> Are you having a headache right now? If so, is this how severe your headaches usually get, or is this an especially ''good'' or ''bad'' day? Patient behavior in the clinic can be compared with historical reports if the patient is having a typical ...

> Effective Migraine Treatment in Pregnant and Lactating Women: A Practical Guide By Dawn Marcus, Philip A. Bain

A language change?

IͶΔ

I have had had had have been having to have a headache.

Damkerng T.

12:26

> Then came time to open up the presents, but my head started to feel weird, like I was having a headache.

> I Have A Story to Tell By Peter Cronin (page 9)

IͶΔ

Not a language change.

This bookmark is better than the forked tongue. Unfortunately, it looks like a towel draped over a towel bar. — Jasper yesterday

tchrist

0

A: I've been having/I have had a headache since I woke up

You indeed cannot use have been having to mean have had. That's because have been having has a key aspect that's lacking in other: that of habitual action. I’ve been having headaches in the mornings ever since I was in that car accident last autumn. I’ve been having someone look in on th...

Or a godawful answer.

IͶΔ

Jasper, Seattle

11.6k 2 12

discussion tags tag-synonyms beta comments editing election

Jasper your avatar looks like a shredded towel failing to show symmetry.

Come on people.

tchrist

@DamkerngT. Perhaps; it doesn't sound right to me. I would say Do you have a headache right now?

IͶΔ

Don't nitpick a lot.

Damkerng T.

12:30

@tchrist nods

IͶΔ

They won't even notice a bad design a second day.

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ It looks like something a graduate student would wear on their graduation ceremony day.

tchrist

@IͶΔ It’s always easy to find nitpickers in a nitwit’s world that’s been prepopulated by head lice.

Damkerng T.

A picture is better than words. :-)

tchrist

Is that clerical garb of some sort?

Damkerng T.

12:39

@tchrist They're gowns we wear in our graduation ceremonies.

tchrist

Oh I see.

Academic dress of the University of Oxford

The University of Oxford has a long tradition of academic dress, which continues to the present day. == When academic dress is worn == Academic dress is still worn very often in Oxford, and every undergraduate and graduate must obtain a gown, cap, and white bow tie or black tie or black ribbon for the purpose of the University matriculation ceremony, where students formally become members of the University. Regulations regarding gowns differ from college to college, but gowns are commonly worn to: Formal Hall (formal dinner, which occurs as frequently as every night in some colleges and as rarely...

Anonymous

Almost any stative verb can be coerced into a dynamic verb, and when it is it can appear in the progressive construction. But which sorts of dynamic meaning can be added depend on the verb, and with some verbs it's really quite limited and uncommon.

Damkerng T.

@tchrist Yes!

Anonymous

The "waxing and waning" type situation sanctions the progressive fairly generally, so "I've been having more and more headaches these days" could probably work in the right context.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Do you find "Are you having a headache right now?" a little strange, too?

Anonymous

12:42

@DamkerngT. At least a little strange.

Anonymous

Have here is typically stative.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Thanks for the feedback. (And thank you, too, @tchrist)

tchrist

Looking at the Oxford possibilities, I'm sure I would need a little flashcard to keep them all straight.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. See CGEL p.167, under Dynamicity.

2

Damkerng T.

looking...

Anonymous

12:49

Also p.170, which discusses some individual stative verbs.

Anonymous

14:10

I'm happy to see Colin Fine active on ELL :-)

4

Jim Reynolds

We just don't want overactive colons.

drive.google.com/file/d/0B_hivi_ChoizejQ5dXVFYURfaGM/…

tchrist

@DamkerngT. And then there were four.

Jim Reynolds

Irratibul vowil sindrame?

2

Q: "if not always discerning"

Francis Fukuyama's widely discussed the End of History and the last Man (1992) brought Kojève's ideas about modern history and politics to a wide, if not always discerning, audience, and growing concerns about globalization have in the intermin only rendered them more timely. I would like to ask...

grammar

Is "if not always discerning" being used in the conventional way here?

Kind of, and yet kind of not, I think.

Doesn't "if not always" usually mark something as being in contrast to expectation? Though not ?

If the audience is wide, we'd reasonably assume it's not particularly discerning, it seems.

Yet why not? There can be large, discerning audiences.

Anonymous

14:32

I think if not is ambiguous and the meaning is taken from context.

Jim Reynolds

14:45

@snailboat Do you mean that you find if not ambiguous here in the limited context provided?

Or that it's ambiguous in general, until given meaning in context?

given meaning by context

tchrist

@JimReynolds Good for you! Not everyone rates a bull you know.

Jim Reynolds

O.O

If this is a reference to astrology, I don't believe in it. Like most Tauruses, I'm skeptical.

Oh! Hehehe.

Anonymous

It doesn't look ambiguous in this context.

Jim Reynolds

So, would you say the idea is: "it" brought a wide audience (good)

Anonymous

I think if not always is probably usually unambiguous.

Jim Reynolds

14:52

Cheap, if not very tasty ...

+ though -

the discourse marker contrasts.

wide though not discerning

wide (positive somehow, good for the thing, it got lots of attention) though not discerning (negative somehow) ... ?

Anonymous

Discourse marker contrasts?

Jim Reynolds

OK. I've heard things that function to compare, contrast, etc, called discourse markers.

Anonymous

@tchrist unicode.org/L2/L2016/16049-future-addn.pdf

Anonymous

We did it! :-)

Jim Reynolds

Something gave some ideas a wide audience. A general/mass audience, that may not have appreciated these ideas?

Anonymous

15:00

@JimReynolds Wikipedia has a decent overview of discourse markers.

Jim Reynolds

15:49

I am still trying to decide if the writer in the text in question there is using if not always to express a contrast, a surprising contrast.

Well, what's the function of if not always?

Or is it in the Wikipedia article? :D

Damkerng T.

17:07

@snailboat Starred in agreement. :-)

@JimReynolds Hehe!

@tchrist Nice! (I take it that the fourth is Do no evil.)

CopperKettle

17:24

> We dream, desire, grow quick or die
Within a moment’s span,
In grains seeking eternity,
Soft sift—and like sands, man.

What's "grow quick", I wonder. Is it idiomatic?

I liked the first stanza more:

> We come and go, depart or stay
Within this world of dew,
Which we should not let hold such sway
Upon us but eschew.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Sounds perfectly good to me.

CopperKettle

Does it mean "grow fast from a young age to an old age", I wonder.

bjb568

More like learn fast.

CopperKettle

A Facebook friend asked for my opinion.. I hate nothing more than being a critic.

Because I believe that when an ordinary person, not a genius, writes any kind of poem, it is great per se.

bows down

bjb568

Eh, become an elementary school teacher.

CopperKettle

17:30

@bjb568 Great idea.

bjb568

You'll see the best poetry.

Damkerng T.

I knew you would say that!

I think there are lots of gems in elementary school writing.

CopperKettle

But when a person asks me where a poem might have some rough points, of course I can find a trainload of faults. I've read too much Keats and stuff. I find a lot of faults in my translations.

@DamkerngT. A teacher once read my composition "how I spent my summer" to the class. I wished I'd die.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

CopperKettle

(0:

@DamkerngT. Did you have this traditional topic, each fall? To write a composition on "What I did during the summer". It was horrible.

Damkerng T.

17:35

@CopperKettle Not really.

CopperKettle

I would have exchanged that ordeal for a couple of chemistry tests.

@DamkerngT. But surely you wrote compositions?

Damkerng T.

I remember that I was drowned in lots of lots of homework assignments some summers.

@CopperKettle I think I was lucky that I wasn't picked to read anything in front of the class! :P

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Ha! Our Literature teacher had us participate in a play on Gogol's Inspector.

My browser freezes.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Oh, it's a famous play!

CopperKettle

And in that play, my deskmate was to play the key role.

Anonymous

17:38

Maybe you need to put antifreeze in your browser.

CopperKettle

@snailboat Ha! (0: Good evening! I just recently reinstalled the system, and it freezes again.

The Government Inspector

The Government Inspector, also known as The Inspector General (original title: Russian: Ревизор, Revizor, literally: "Inspector"), is a satirical play by the Russian and Ukrainian dramatist and novelist Nikolai Gogol. Originally published in 1836, the play was revised for an 1842 edition. Based upon an anecdote allegedly recounted to Gogol by Pushkin, the play is a comedy of errors, satirizing human greed, stupidity, and the extensive political corruption of Imperial Russia. According to D. S. Mirsky, the play "is not only supreme in character and dialogue – it is one of the few Russian pla...

And in that play, he was to kiss a girl who played one of the women there.

We all rolled on the floor. (0:

He was too shy.

Anonymous

Some animals produce "antifreeze" to survive hibernation in sub-zero temperatures without forming ice in their blood.

Anonymous

Your browser should learn from these noble animals.

Damkerng T.

(in an "As Seen on TV" voice) If you send me $30 within the next 10 minutes, you'll get a bottle of Awesome Anitifreezer worth $50!

CopperKettle

@snailboat It should! (0:

Damkerng T.

17:41

@CopperKettle I wish I could've seen that. :D

CopperKettle

Yes, he was all glowing red, which added to his already red hair made him look like a carrot. (0:

Anonymous

foliamalacologica.com/download.php?ma_id=663

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Haha!

CopperKettle

You might try reading Gogol, he wrote in a beautiful way. He was a very strange man.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Eh? Snails could be the key to space travel! We can learn how to hibernate from them!

@CopperKettle Bookmarked the Wikipedia page.

Ah, it was published in Folia Malacologica!

CopperKettle

17:44

Gogol invented stories about his life, and had an unsuccessful trip to Germany, where he did nothing, knowing not a word in German.

And he published his first big poem, a romantic poem, but it was deemed so horrible by the critics that he bought it at the shops and destroyed it, trying to destroy the whole issue. (0:

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle How inventive!

@CopperKettle Aww... critics again...

> About Folia Malacologica
Folia Malacologica is a quarterly journal published by The Association of Polish Malacologists since 1987. The Folia Malacologica is an international journal publishes malacological research articles in many topics: ecology, biology, genetics, phylogeny and systematics. Folia Malacologica is indexed by AGRO, Zoological Record and CAB Abstracts.

> (By the way, we use a cute snail as our logo.)

The last line was mine. :P

Anonymous

Hee

CopperKettle

At the end of life, his views changed very much. He turned against liberal reforms etc. and wrote quite strange things.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Eh? So he disagreed with liberal folks?

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes, his views turned very strange. He wanted to write a sequel to Dead Souls, where the book would show how Russia was like, an ideal country.

This was understandably hard.

So he burned the book.

Then he turned depressive and stopped eating.

And died.

Damkerng T.

17:49

nods -- I wonder what kind of an ideal country he had in mind.

Hah!

Apparently, it was of a fatal kind!

CopperKettle

People have wondered ever since whether the book was a work of genius. It was seen by nobody.

"The second volume of Dead Souls"

@DamkerngT. As far as I remember, he wante to repeat Dante's Divine Comedy, but on Russian setback

The bad guy in Dead Souls was to become cleansed through his experience.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

CopperKettle

So the first book was to be like Hell, the second, Purgatory, the third, Heaven.

Damkerng T.

But the second volume was never finished.

CopperKettle

Yes.. It turned out easier to write about people full of vice. The first book turned out a brilliant satire.

But he found it hard to write a purgatory book with positive heroes.

Malacology

Malacology is the branch of invertebrate zoology that deals with the study of the Mollusca (mollusks or molluscs), the second-largest phylum of animals in terms of described species after the arthropods. Mollusks include snails and slugs, clams, octopus and squid, and numerous other kinds, many (but by no means all) of which have shells. One division of malacology, conchology, is devoted to the study of mollusk shells. Malacology derives from Greek μαλακός, malakos, "soft"; and -λογία, -logia. Fields within malacological research include taxonomy, ecology and evolution. Applied malacology studies...

Damkerng T.

17:56

I wonder if jellyfishes are included.

Sometimes I kinda envy jellyfishes. They just float around, and they've probably achieved the true meaning of free spirits. :P

CopperKettle

(0:

They worry not about grammar.

Damkerng T.

Surely they don't!

CopperKettle

I should some work. Good-night!

Damkerng T.

Goodnight! o/

StoneyB

@CopperKettle The oldest meaning of quick is "alive".

Damkerng T.

18:02

Oh! Perhaps it's this "quick" in quicksilver!

StoneyB

@DamkerngT. Exactly.

And quicksand.

Damkerng T.

nods

Now the two words make more sense to me.

StoneyB

And "cut me to the quick".

Damkerng T.

> [15] i a. He wears a wig.
[15] i b. He is wearing a wig.
[15] ii a. He has a wig on.
[15] ii b. *He is having a wig on.

> The salient interpretation of [15iia] is that of a single situation -- a multiple reading requires an adjunct (He always has a wig on) or indication from context. The progressive is then not used either for a temporary serial state or for an ongoing single situation.

(CGEL 3:8.2, p.169)

But how can we explain the use of Are you having a headache right now? by some speakers, then?

It's non-standard or something?

StoneyB

Y e s - but the temporary instance of an intermittent state is becoming more common even with statives. Use of the progressive construction is still evolving.

I'm having headaches more and more often -- in fact, I'm having one right now.

With HAVE this broadening may have been facilitated by the rise of the (HAVE) got paraphrase.

So the real question is whajagonna tell the learners?

Damkerng T.

18:21

@StoneyB This learner is still confused by it!

Even though he thinks he can get it right most of the time, the last 3-5% can still get him anywhere anytime. :P

StoneyB

Fersher. English evolves faster than any of us can keep up with!

But so do all the other languages (though a lot of them are evolving toward dead). What we really need are polyglot Answerers who can point to the same confusing phenomena in the Learners' own languages. It won't teach them anything about English, but it might assuage some of the anxiety.

2

Damkerng T.

I like that!

A glimpse of the shape of things to come...

It's another language that we may need to learn...

And we have an app for it...

itunes.apple.com/us/app/speakemoji/id1057340552?mt=8

> SpeakEmoji
Speak the world's fastest-growing language with SpeakEmoji – the voice-to-emoji translator. Simply speak into your phone and see your words translated into emoji. Share your emoji message directly into your favourite messaging apps like Twitter, Facebook and Messenger, as well as SMS and email. Friends can translate your emoji message back into text, and reply with an emoji message of their own.

StoneyB

I'll put it on the list after Irish, Welsh and Old Norse . . . which are all in line behind English. When I really understand English I'll move on to the next one.

Damkerng T.

Haha!

StoneyB

Is SpeakEmoji any more reliable than Google Translate?

Damkerng T.

18:36

I doubt that, too! :D

IͶΔ

It sure is. ☺
☻✌

StoneyB

I can see the future: A New Emoji Dictionary on Historical Principles. The Cambridge Grammar of the Emoji Language. Practical Emoji Usage. Cassell's Emoji-L33tspeak Dictionary.

2

IͶΔ

UrbanEmojitionary

StoneyB

emo.wikipedia.org

Damkerng T.

In some way, I think people learn Emojispeak (Emoji as a language) the way most adults learn a second language. There's a lot of "guess-a-lot" involved. And that's probably why everyone can enjoy learning Emoji. :-)

IͶΔ

18:44

@DamkerngT. ☕☃

Damkerng T.

LOL

I remember that Stephen King said, "Writing is telepathy". I wonder what he thinks about Emoji. :P

IͶΔ

> Writing is telepathy. Emojis are blasphemy.

skull petrol

:D

Intellectual blasphemy!

IͶΔ

20:03

allthingslinguistic.com/post/139137711595/…

2

This is awesome.

IͶΔ

20:14

Free VLQ flag:

0

A: What is the difference between "certain" and "sure"?

hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

tchrist

@snailboat SMALL CAPITAL Q

IͶΔ

G'night all

Nihilist_Frost

13

Q: Why does spell sound like "|sbel|" while in dictionary it is "|spel|"?

I listened to the pronunciation of spell in Wiktionary, and it sounds to me that it's pronounced as |sbel|—it sounds to me very clearly as a b sound. But in dictionaries, such as my Mac dictionary app, they say it's pronounced |spel| with a p sound. Could anybody please give me some information ...

pronunciation listening orthography

when orthographies and romanizations clash

Damkerng T.

20:34

@Nihilist_Frost Indeed!

Nihilist_Frost

20:46

the confusion works the other way around.

as I showed with "Beijing"

as well

Damkerng T.

nods -- It was Peking before Beijing. I think the dish is still called Peking duck.

Nihilist_Frost

@DamkerngT. correct.

Damkerng T.

(Among other stuff, I bought a DIY Peking duck back from Beijing in my last trip to Beijing. :-)

(For some reason, it tasted better than the Peking ducks I can find in Bangkok. :D)

StoneyB

@IͶΔ Check this out: specgram.com

Damkerng T.

21:19

1

Q: How to pronounce close "TH" sounds?

I'm French and the TH sound has always been hard for me. I can easily prononce it when the TH sound is isolated but I experience difficulties when two TH sounds are very close. Eg: I thought that it would be easier than this. Question: Should I prononce the second TH sound or I can just pr...