Language Overflow

Jim Reynolds

00:30

@DamkerngT. Yes. Timmy has got ...

Jim Reynolds

00:53

4

Q: Meaning of "I have got..."

I don't clearly understand the meaning of "I have got __" in sentences like the following one: I have got to get. Is it a sentence using the past tense, or the present? What does it mean?

On Br/Am distinctions

26

Q: Difference between "I have got" and "I have gotten"

I see these two expressions are used almost identically in different contexts. Is there a difference between I have got and I have gotten?

word-choice grammar verbs have-got got-gotten

Jim Reynolds

01:18

Note that I haven't (gotten a chance to) read these carefully. I don't know if the answers are correct or complete.

Catija

@DamkerngT. I'm not sure how that question is "unclear"... the guy wants to know how to say that he was reading from 9-10... or am I missing something?

Damkerng T.

I don't think it's unclear. I didn't vote to close it myself. I just thought that it's probably not a very good way to learn a second language.

Jim Reynolds

no , I am self-studying English. I asked those questions because I want to systematically to learn tense and their function . the tense knowledge of textbook can not remove my all conundrum . — zn2015 5 hours ago

That one?

Damkerng T.

Yes.

Jim Reynolds

I'm voting to reopen now.

Catija

01:24

@DamkerngT. Sure. I respect that he's trying to do it on his own but I don't know that's the best way to go about it.

Damkerng T.

nods -- IMHO, to pursue their goal, a good grammar book should be a good start.

Their question suggests that they hadn't read any grammar book, but it could be because they didn't find a good one.

BTW, I like your answer!

Catija

Thanks :D I tried to answer their question and also explain why their options aren't good.

Jim Reynolds

Dam's not saying his questions are off-topic. Just that the self-learning.approach might not be the most efficient.

Damkerng T.

Actually, I was thinking to fight to reopen this one, but I ran out of my energy. :-)

0

Q: IBM Tree Huggers Commercial

I'm trying to write down this IBM TV commercial. Would you please help me complete it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSNFE6eUjfY ------------ your green proposal. Great. It's fine, just fine. I'm sure it'll make people feel real good about the company, should go over --- with the tree hugger...

listening

@JimReynolds Yes!

@Catija It's really a good answer. :D

Catija

@JimReynolds Oh, I wasn't saying that he was. I just thought it was worth bringing up the fact it was closed since it'd already been mentioned in here.

Damkerng T.

01:28

I remember that it had 4 close-votes when I made my comment here.

@JimReynolds The phrase "got jokes" made me think of "Got milk?". :-)

Daniel Rch.

Hi everyone, Do these sentences have the same meaning? **Clinton´s wall street ties**

**Clinton´s ties with wall street**

Damkerng T.

More or less, I think.

I think ties to is more common, so it'd be Clinton's ties to Wall Street.

Hmm... it's normally just Wall Street, without the, right?

Ah, yes. It's The Wolf of Wall Street not Wolf of the Wall Street. (I misremembered the title, and that made me unsure about Wall Street.)

Hi, @ColleenV!

Jim Reynolds

01:50

@DanielRch. *Clinton's Wall Street ties is the more common way to refer to Clinton's relationships with bankers and investment houses.

0

Q: IBM Tree Huggers Commercial

I'm trying to write down this IBM TV commercial. Would you please help me complete it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSNFE6eUjfY ------------ your green proposal. Great. It's fine, just fine. I'm sure it'll make people feel real good about the company, should go over --- with the tree hugger...

listening

Why are people so eager to accuse OPs of something like trying to obtain free professional services dishonestly or greedily?

There is no reason to suppose other than that the OP is trying to understand some English. Sheesh!

Damkerng T.

02:06

I suppose that it's off-topic on EL&U.

On ELL, it's borderline. We have arguments both for and against it (audio transcription).

Nihilist_Frost

02:56

strawpoll.me/6730315

2

(I made this)

Anonymous

03:12

@DamkerngT. I think asking for a transcription of a lengthy recording is off-topic the same way proofreading is. But if they can understand most of it and are having trouble with a specific part of the recording, I think it's okay.

Anonymous

But I think we have other users who think transcriptions should be off-topic, period.

Damkerng T.

"This transcription you wrote has a lot of mistakes,though you think it's obvious." -- Huh?

Catija

Personally, if it's just a word or two that are problematic, it doesn't bother me. Particularly if there are accent issues... but asking for the entire thing to be transcribed, I don't this is appropriate.

Damkerng T.

(a deleted answer in that question)

Anonymous

@Catija Yeah, we're definitely not a bulk transcription service.

Jim Reynolds

04:35

@Catija Oh! I see now that my comment was prompted by a brain malfunction that I experienced. You see, I was walking down the street one day, and suddenly I had the most bizarre and wondrous of experiences. The clouds opened up to reveal a large, golden goat head in the sky, then whispered, All are doomed. Allllll are dooooooomed!! Understand now?

I think I understand what the founding founders intended by "no proofreading." I wonder if I could write a good definition short enough to at least modestly curtail the over-closing problem.

The brevity of the window of editing opportunity has me casting clouds as whisperers.

Could be a Robert Redford movie.

guest

and Paul Newman ;-)

Jim Reynolds

05:16

Hi @guest

guest

Hi

Jim Reynolds

What brings you here?

guest

The internet :-)

Jim Reynolds

:D

guest

How about you?

Jim Reynolds

05:21

@Nihilist_Frost Very cool!

Hmm... I come here when I want to procrastinate or kill time.

Well, also to chat with the regulars and learn and think a bit about English, especially grammar.

guest

I do a lot of "lurking" throughout the network.

Jim Reynolds

It's early afternoon here in Taipei. I went to the dentist earlier, but the time was wrong due to a misunderstanding. So now I'm waiting back at my home again and will go again in a couple of hours.

I think they will "deep clean" around a tooth, and it's not much fun. So I took a Valium-like medication and a painkiller. So I'm in a peaceful state of mind.

guest

:-/

Jim Reynolds

Would you like to hear details about.some of my past medical procedures?

O.O

Perhaps view a photo of my gallbladder?

guest

I'm good thanks.

Jim Reynolds

05:30

Oh well. My cat's playing with it right now, anyways.

guest

:D

Gotta run

Cya

Thanks for the offer.

Jim Reynolds

Maybe next time. Bye!

Topology is the mathematical study of the properties that are preserved through deformations, twistings, and stretchings of objects. Tearing, however, is not allowed. A circle is topologically equivalent to an ellipse (into which it can be deformed by stretching) and a sphere is equivalent to an ellipsoid.

Wow!

IͶΔ

@JimReynolds Tears topology

Jim Reynolds

mathworld.wolfram.com/Topology.html

:-)

IͶΔ

SMILEY

Burns

Jim Reynolds

05:41

Oh, I wanted to tell you. Your comment in response to my complaining about the rude comment: it was insightful. Thanks!

IͶΔ

05:55

@JimReynolds Did you rant on meta?

Jim Reynolds

No. Well, I should say that my interpretation of one thing you said, made me realize that I didn't need to worry about it!

IͶΔ

@JimReynolds Well that's boring.

Jim Reynolds

Well, I ain't got much more right now.

12 hours ago, by V.V.

What do people cry when they are lost in the forest?interjection, I mean.

At first I thought @V.V.'s message here was the first part of a joke.

CopperKettle

160 MW of power.

Jim Reynolds

Impressive. It would make Dam's mouth water!

Or maybe his mouth oils.

CopperKettle

06:03

Yes. It is projected to reach 500 MW by 2020.

Almost like a nuclear power reactor.

> "The pipeline's hot fluid — 393 degrees Celsius (739 degrees Fahrenheit) — is the heat source used to warm the water and make steam. The plant doesn't stop delivering energy at nighttime or when clouds obscure the sun; heat from the fluid can be stored in a tank of molten salts."

Jim Reynolds

Where is it?

CopperKettle

Morocco.

It only takes up a tiny portion of a desert.

Jim Reynolds

Wow. Cool. ... Er, Hot!

CopperKettle

They could export electricity if they expand it to all the desert.

@JimReynolds (0:

Jim Reynolds

Molten salts!

Sounds like MAR's lunch.

Crazy Ninja

07:38

hi

Good morning!

You know who/whom I'm talking about. don't you?

which one is correct?

Jim Reynolds

07:51

You know who I'm talking about.

@CrazyNinja

Crazy Ninja

thanks

Jim Reynolds

I can't give you an explanation of why, because it looks like it could be an object, here, not a subject. But I know from experience that is what people say. There are 10 matches for "you know who I'm talking about" on the Corpus of Contemporary American English, and 0 for "you know whom I'm talking about"

Crazy Ninja

hmm

even google said the same

Jim Reynolds

It's possible that they are both ok.

"About whom are you speaking" sounds fine to me, though. In that case, I feel ok with who or whom.

Jim Reynolds

08:15

@CrazyNinja Do you want a more complete explanation?

Crazy Ninja

@JimReynolds I guess you explained it well. Thanks

Jim Reynolds

I don't actually understand it. I just know what people usually say!

Crazy Ninja

08:38

yeah. even I have heard people use both

Jim Reynolds

08:49

@CrazyNinja This has some information about who/whom:

ahdictionary.com/word/…

CopperKettle

09:47

Low Marks Again

Low Marks Again (Russian: Опять двойка, translated as Grade D, Again) is a painting by Fyodor Pavlovich Reshetnikov, created in 1952. Due to its realistic plot, the painting was used in the Soviet school curriculum as a topic for writing an essay. The painting was well known to the Soviet public. == The Plot == In the painting we see a family that meets a boy who came home from school with the failing grade D. The boy looks like a loser, his clothes are unbuttoned, with wrinkled coat, pants, black shoes - a casual look. In his right hand he holds a tied bag that seems to have served as a ball and...

Damkerng T.

14:14

0

Q: I didn't understand the meaning of the sentence?

"The mob was reportedly incensed after another car driven by a Sudanese youth ran over and killed a 35-year-old local".What does this sentence means?Here what the author wants to convey us?

meaning-in-context sentence-meaning

Some questions make me feel sad.

But news is supposed to be like that, I think.

Anonymous

I don't always read the news. It can be rather depressing :-(

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

14:30

Ponyo is being silly. She's peeking out from under a leaf :-)

CopperKettle

Frank Zappa - Trouble Every Day

►

@snailboat (0:

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Ponyo the snail is a bit like Ponyo in the anime. :D

Anonymous

One thing the new chat interface does better is giving you a big red circle to tap when you get new messages. It's hard to tap the mention thingy on each message on the old interface.

Damkerng T.

Oh, yes!

Jim Reynolds

@snailboat Ponyo silly! Is she Russian?

@DamkerngT. Nice answer.

Damkerng T.

14:33

@JimReynolds Thanks!

I wish the news hadn't happened in the first place.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. My other snails are sleeping in their shells.

Anonymous

Snails sleep more often as they get older.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Unlike people! :D

Anonymous

I made their environment the right temperature and humidity and gave them their favorite foods, but they just want to sleep. Which is okay! That's their snail prerogative.

Jim Reynolds

How long do.they usually live, your kind, snailboat?

Anonymous

14:36

Contrary to popular belief, I am in fact a human and not a snail!

Jim Reynolds

Ha. I meant the type you usually keep!

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

Helix aspersa doesn't have a terribly long lifespan. Some snails can live for fifteen years or more, though.

Jim Reynolds

Wow. Dogish spans.

1

Q: Present perfect with since: starting and ending times of a finished past event?

I started reading at 9:00AM and finished at 10:00AM. The time is now 11:00 AM. Which is correct to say? I have read the book since 9:00 AM. I have read the book since 10:00 AM. I had read the book since 9:00 AM. I had read the book since 10:00 AM.

tense time

Anonymous

Ponyo is about sixteen months old.

Jim Reynolds

14:39

I think it should be reopened, this one that Catija answered.

Damkerng T.

I'm one of the four. (We need a gang of five!)

Anonymous

She became an adult snail around the age of two months.

Jim Reynolds

@DamkerngT. <3

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, over a year already!

Anonymous

Her shell is a little worn now, but she's still lively and healthy :-)

Damkerng T.

14:41

Yay!

Jim Reynolds

I think healthy older people sleep as much or more as middle aged adults? But sleeping disorders may be more clmmon in the elderly.

Anonymous

Their lifespan can vary. When they aestivate or hibernate they slow down and barely age. It can be risky for them, but it can also lead to them surviving for years until better conditions present themselves.

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds My grandma didn't seem to want to sleep much, though she usually took a nap during the day.

Anonymous

I know some people who have biphasic sleep patterns.

Anonymous

They're young, though, rather than old.

Jim Reynolds

14:46

What does it mean, @snailboat?

Anonymous

Sleeping twice per day

Anonymous

This is Ponyo on the right. They're eating a slice of pear :-)

Jim Reynolds

I thought you were going to send my my new favorite website (to send):

lmgtfy.com

Damkerng T.

^"Lemme count your whorls."

Anonymous

14:50

Hee

Jim Reynolds

What's red?

Anonymous

Plastic

Anonymous

The snails have a little red plastic house they can hide inside when they sleep.

Anonymous

They liked the old acorn house better, but I dropped that and broke it while I was cleaning their cage :-(

Damkerng T.

Aww

Jim Reynolds

14:52

sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-works/…

Anonymous

It's better for them to have a plastic house anyway. If a snail happened to fall from the lid of their cage onto hard ceramic, they could crack their shell!

Jim Reynolds

That vertically long rectangle is an interesting graphic.

Anonymous

Plastic has more give so it's less dangerous for them to fall on.

Jim Reynolds

Hmm.. Do snails fall?

Damkerng T.

LOL -- Unbelievable, but true!

Anonymous

14:54

Snails fall.

Anonymous

They like to climb :-)

Anonymous

When they get older, sometimes their suction doesn't work so well.

Anonymous

They fall sometimes even when they're younger, though.

Anonymous

Sometimes snails climb up walls and seal themselves off in their shells. They secrete a sticky material which dries to a paper-like consistency, and this papery material keeps them attached to the wall while they withdraw into their shell.

Anonymous

Then when it rains, the material dissolves and they fall!

Anonymous

14:57

A few minutes later, they wake up and wonder what happened :-)

Damkerng T.

Poor thing!

Anonymous

In my snail cage (terrarium!) I have a soft substrate they can fall on without hurting themselves.

Jim Reynolds

!

Anonymous

In the wild they often do this on the side of plants, under leaves, on flowers, and so on.

Anonymous

And it's often safe because they fall onto soft dirt.

Anonymous

15:00

But in more urban areas they sometimes do this above concrete, which is not quite as safe.

Jim Reynolds

I guess snail-run public health campaigns remind snails to look before they secrete.

Nihilist_Frost

solfege notes re, mi, fa, sol, la derive from Latin words.

Anonymous

Snails didn't really evolve to live in cities, but they manage it anyway :-) Lately, snails even live on skyscrapers, eating caulk right off the buildings. It's quite a problem!

Jim Reynolds

O.O

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Snails on skyscrapers! That's new to me!

Jim Reynolds

15:06

Oh, That's idiomatic seems to be often misused as that's felicitous or that's common or that's a standard/conventional thing that's said?

Damkerng T.

@Nihilist_Frost Where is do? and ti too?

Jim Reynolds

When I was young, I thought the line from The Sound of Music was: Tea, we drink with Jan and Fred.

In my mind, it was a pleasant little get-together!

Anonymous

Felicitous is a technical term in linguistics which boils down to 'makes sense in the context provided'

Jim Reynolds

Is there a word that means more like, "We say that"?

It's fine?

Anonymous

Idiomatic has multiple meanings but the relevant one here seems to be 'sound natural to a native speaker; is commonly said in this context'

Jim Reynolds

15:09

Oh. Ok.

I thought so, but something just made me look it up in a couple of dictionaries.

And I didn't see that one.

Anonymous

Felicitous is less likely to be understood by non-linguists

Jim Reynolds

Sure.

Damkerng T.

Felicitous is to linguists what appropriate is to the rest of us.

Anonymous

Idiomatic can also refer to non-compositionality, where the usage or meaning is assigned to multiple words rather than being the sum of the individual words' usage or meaning

Jim Reynolds

I think few of us write on here in a careful way that a basic user would be likely to understand us. Here being everywhere on the site, including answers and chatroom chat.

Right, as in "it's an idiom".

Anonymous

15:12

However I try not to use idiomatic that way

Anonymous

I use the word idiom for that.

Anonymous

@JimReynolds I change the way I explain things based on who I'm talking to.

Jim Reynolds

Sure, but I mean, in an answer on ELL, when you used to answer.... That's a wide audience.

Or a tall one if we see reading comprehension ability as measured on a vertical scale. O.O

So, many of the most-upvoted answers are higher-level language that "impresses" more people, but in many cases might not be accessible to basic users of English.

Anonymous

Ah, another fault to add to the pile, I suppose :-)

Jim Reynolds

Yes. And if we see faults like logs ...

We may feel like burning the whole thing down!

May.

We might = me.

Anonymous

15:19

For what it's worth, my goal in writing answers isn't to "impress" people.

Jim Reynolds

I know.

Anonymous

Mostly, I just try to be helpful :-) Sometimes I fail.

Jim Reynolds

Hopefully, we'll hit plastic or dirt when we do, not hard ceramic.

Anonymous

Ponyo's on top of her red plastic house now, rasping at a slice of yam :-)

Nihilist_Frost

@DamkerngT. they weren't derived from Latin

"ti" was invented purely to make it have a different initial consonant.

Anonymous

15:24

Think about red plastic house and plastic red house for a moment. Which sounds more natural? Does either suggest a more specific meaning?

Jim Reynolds

To rasp: scrape or file (something) with a rasp.

Anonymous

I like solfege.

Jim Reynolds

Red plastic house sound more natural.

Damkerng T.

@Nihilist_Frost Ahh -- Latin music had only 5 notes, then? :P

Anonymous

@JimReynolds Snails have radulae.

Nihilist_Frost

15:25

@DamkerngT. no

Jim Reynolds

@DamkerngT. haha

Nihilist_Frost

ut, re, mi, fa, sol, la

there was initially no "ti"

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds I almost read snailboat's sentence as Ponyo's rasping at some jam!

@Nihilist_Frost Oh!

Jim Reynolds

Raspberry jam?

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Yup! That crossed my mind, too!

(I'm gonna blame that on Raspi.)

Jim Reynolds

15:27

There is an order of types of adjectives.

Anonymous

I use a peeler to make paper-thin slices of yam for the snails to eat. They like eating thin food best, maybe because it's more leaf-like.

Jim Reynolds

I guess the most common is for color to come before material?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Definitely red plastic house, but I don't know why.

Jim Reynolds

That's what I seem to expect.

Anonymous

@JimReynolds And when might you use a different, less common order?

Jim Reynolds

15:28

So, if I heard the opposite, I might wonder if there was a context. Which red house? The plastic red house.

Damkerng T.

(Systemic functional grammar echoes in my mind.)

Nihilist_Frost

@JimReynolds versus a brick red house.

or clay

Jim Reynolds

Brick red is a color!

Damkerng T.

Hey, I got an idea! It depends on how immutable the property is!

Jim Reynolds

@Nih Are you from ... California? Did you say that recently?

From there or there now?

Anonymous

15:30

So instead of having the adjectives on par with one another, (red plastic) house, we have nesting: plastic (red house)

Jim Reynolds

Right.

Nihilist_Frost

@JimReynolds I was being hypothetical

Jim Reynolds

Red brick house instead of brick red? I think that's a good illustration.

How were you being hypothetical?

Anonymous

Speaking of which, is plastic really an adjective here?

Nihilist_Frost

@JimReynolds with the clay

Jim Reynolds

15:32

It just made me remember that brick red is a Crayola color crayon color.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. More innate properties closer to the head noun?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Yes!

Anonymous

@JimReynolds I learned a lot of color words from crayon labels :-)

Jim Reynolds

Hmm.. How about tall young man?

Anonymous

I love crayons.

Jim Reynolds

15:34

Is age more innate than height?

Damkerng T.

Arguably, height can change dramatically when we are young.

Anonymous

You can get crayons at a lot of restaurants if you ask for them. Even if you're an adult and not a small child :-)

Jim Reynolds

Here's your crayons, ma'am, and your funny look.

Anonymous

I did that in my twenties a lot, going to restaurants and drawing. I miss that. I don't eat out a lot anymore.

Anonymous

@JimReynolds I tended to get smiles! :-)

Nihilist_Frost

15:38

It's always hilarious when English spelling doesn't agree with itself.

I tried to get my father to pronounce "sergeant".

Jim Reynolds

Haha

Nihilist_Frost

of course he got the first vowel wrong.

Jim Reynolds

I think what's hilarious is when we can make our fathers look funny!

Anonymous

My father manages that on his own. He's a funny guy :-)

Jim Reynolds

:-)

Anonymous

15:40

And he knows how to pronounce both sergeant and colonel.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat In some projects, while we were waiting outside the meeting room at our client's site, I spent time sketching something, usually the client's office. :-)

Anonymous

But he does deliberately use the regional accents of places he's recently traveled to.

Anonymous

It's funny hearing him say words with unfamiliar vowels :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What is your favorite type of drawing?

Jim Reynolds

I think people who are good at learning languages might tend to be musicians and visual artists.

Damkerng T.

15:42

Just plain sketching! The EE pencil is the best!

Jim Reynolds

Well, we know there's something to the musician association.

Electrical engineering pencil?

Anonymous

Counterpoint: I'm a musician and love to draw, but I'm really not very good at learning languages!

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Um... it's a kind of a drawing pencil. :D

Jim Reynolds

Then the exception that proves the rule!

haha

Damkerng T.

I'm not that good, though, just someone who likes to draw. :D

Oh, that sketch of mine is still there!

in English Language & Usage, Dec 25 '13 at 11:47, by Damkerng T.

Jim Reynolds

15:45

:-)

Anonymous

EE is 8B

Jim Reynolds

Yay!

Anonymous

It's at one end of the scale, B = Black, or soft, with H = hard at the other end.

Anonymous

I don't know what the EE stands for, though.

Nihilist_Frost

How would "Albert" be converted into katakana?

Anonymous

15:46

@DamkerngT. Oh, very nice! :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat My art teacher forced us to use only the EE pencil to sketch in one class, and I kinda like it since then. :D

@snailboat Thanks!

Jim Reynolds

Oh. I see at the top right of my screen that I've been in "Homotopy Theory" chatroom all day!

Anonymous

アルバート

Jim Reynolds

I checked it out out of curiousity because someone dropped in who was also in that room.

Now where is it?? On my phone? Hmm..

Anonymous

アルベルト is also used

Jim Reynolds

15:48

I might be considered a full member of the community by now!

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds It's math stuff?!

Jim Reynolds

Yes. And apparently so esoteric, one would be hard-pressed parody the way they talk!

42 mins ago, by snailboat

Idiomatic has multiple meanings but the relevant one here seems to be 'sound natural to a native speaker; is commonly said in this context'

oops

in Homotopy Theory, 13 hours ago, by Denis Nardin

Any order preserving bijection $f:\omega+1\to (\omega+1)^*$ has to send the maximum of $\omega+1$ to some element with infinitely many predecessors, but such an element does not exists

O.O

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Looks almost like another language!

Jim Reynolds

For idiomatic meaning sounds natural to a native speaker, I'm still thinking about that.

I can't easily reconcile it to the dictionary definitions I've seen so far.

Damkerng T.

I think that's the main sense we use on ELL.

Jim Reynolds

15:54

Peculiar to or characteristic of the style or manner of a particular group or people.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... not really, I think.

Oh, neat! It covers both senses. I love you, Macmillan! macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/idiomatic

Jim Reynolds

Interesting that is has effectively opposite meanings!

Damkerng T.

:D

Jim Reynolds

the new teacher's idiomatic approach to dealing with special-needs students is already showing signs of success

It seems to mean both exceptional/particular to an individual or group, and normal!

Anonymous

See, Macmillan gets my seal of approval again :-)

Damkerng T.

15:58

Yay!

Transcript for