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07:00 - 17:0018:00 - 23:00

07:14
1
Q: Jump or Jump over <something>

Cihangir Çam"Jump over the turnstile" or "jump the turnstile". I saw in a sentence "jump the turnstile." Then I came to think whether it would be correct to say it like "jump over the turnstile". Would that be correct?

Maybe it's just me, but jump something and jump over something evoke different imagery in my mind.
Both have someone "jump", and that someone will be on the other side after the action.
Bit, let's say jump the fence. I imagine that that someone would grab the fence with their hands and push themselves over the fence with both their jump and their hands.
Then again, I think practically they could mean exactly the same.
07:47
1
Q: Joy(as noun)+verb+ing

Cihangir Çam joy noun (SUCCESS) › [U] UK informal ​success, ​action, or ​help: [+ -ing verb] Did you have any joy ​finding that ​book you ​wanted? We ​tried ​asking ​local ​libraries for ​information, but got no joy from any of them. I noticed that the dictionary says that the word in question can ...

Interesting question!
Does it modify "joy", or "have", or "you", or the whole sentence?
"it"?
"finding that book you wanted"
08:16
@DamkerngT. I think it either modifies "have", or "joy".
No, scratch "joy".
It's tricky, isn't it?
BTW look at the URL of that question: "joyas-nounverbing"
It sounds like the name of a terrorist.
To CamGEL! (That's the worst second I've ever seen Wikipedia suggest)
2
Q: Why we need "ever" between "have" and "seen"

English learnerI am reading English Grammar in Use by Raymond Murphy. I have seen 2 sentences below, It is a beautiful painting? Yes, it is the most beautiful painting I have ever seen. I dont know why did they use "ever" between have and seen. Please advise!

Anther dichotomy in English.
08:27
hey, all.
> a) Have you done your homework?
b) Have you done your homework yet?
c) Have you ever done your homework?
d) Have you done your homework, ever?
Hi!
i see it's just the two of you here. :3
@lekonchekon It suffices.
i'm sure it does.
@DamkerngT. I have never ever done my homework.
08:29
:-)
what are you two working on?
I'm browsing the main page.
I'm TeXing and tikzing.
tikzing, what's that?
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Ah, have you read my feedback from last night?
08:32
okay.
So, now i see what you did there @MAR.
I think it's mostly about the font that both web TeX services failed.
Nope, lemme see.
oh.
I had something.

Things can't get any better than this.
Things can't get better than this.
Things can't get much better than this.

What's the difference in the meaning between the three?
Pi = 3.1416 is good enough.
Tom can't get any better value than that for Pi.
Pete found that Pi = 3.14159; it's better, but not much.
Oh it's in the other room.
@DamkerngT. The second one failed since it only uses pdfTeX, while I wrote that in XeTeX.
08:40
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I switched its compiler to XeTex. It can generate the output, but with the wrong font.
so basically, things can't get much better than this - there's a slight possibility that they might to a very limited extend.

Things can't get better than this - things don't get any better.
things can't get any better than this - things don't get any better.
am i wrong?
"can't get better" and "can't get any better" are basically the same. The idea is more emphasized in the latter.
thanks. :3
No problem. :)
@DamkerngT. Well, fontspec works with XeTeX, and you seem to have removed it to get it to work.
08:48
I think their setup is not a very recent one.
My old MiKTeX failed, too.
So, @Dam tell me, do you have these fonts in your system? Kristen ITC, Algerian, and Lucida Fax
I think you must have Lucida Fax.
I installed a new MiKTeX last night, and it compiled your code fine. :-)
Kristen ITC, I wonder.
@DamkerngT. Oh.
I think I perhaps have none.
MiKTeX seemed to request several more packages during the compilation. I think some of them must've been about fonts.
@snailboat I think I agree with you that Peter's first language is not English.
Even though he said that he's American.
That must be because of the syntax changes in TikZ.
@DamkerngT. Oh.
08:58
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I'm not sure, but my old MiKTeX seemed to request some packages too, before it exited with errors.
Yep, I'm right/
@DamkerngT. How can you tell?
Ah, sorry. @snailboat -- I didn't think it would ping you.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Too many things sounding off.
But close enough that I believe that he lives there.
Well, I've only read 2–3 answers from him, and he was always touching the meaning of the thing in question, so I thought he's either a native Englisher who's just here to help since why not, or a learner that has never touched the grounds of grammar.
@DamkerngT. Why?
I thought snailboat was sleeping.
Of course if she's pingable, which she is, she'll get pinged when we ping her.
Anonymous
09:14
Lots of Americans are non-native speakers
Anonymous
Has anyone asked him?
Anonymous
That might be an easier way to find out than speculating.
Anonymous
Oh, he did say he was a native speaker
Anonymous
9
A: Singular or plural when indicating something unique owned by many

PeterBoth sentences are correct and understandable. To this native speaker, the first sounds more native-spoken, even though there may be interpreted as many dogs each having multiple tails. The second is more wordy and does not sound natural since we already know that dogs only have one tail. Howe...

Anonymous
Well then.
09:22
It's a curious case!
Anonymous
I'll refrain from commenting.
Anonymous
I think it could be helpful if people filled out their profiles.
09:44
Actually "as compared to" and "as compare to" sound very similar when spoken. So it might easily be accepted by an English listener, but not an English reader. — Peter Shor Jun 19 '13 at 17:47
Interesting!
10:09
6
Q: "Our house gets really cold when the wind is blowing/blows from the east"

MJFI know about the grammar rule that says, when A happens while B is happening (as a longer background situation), you use the simple tense for A and the progressive tense for B. According to this rule, the title should read: Our house gets really cold when the wind is blowing from the east....

@Stoney when are you going to write something for the progressive?
Hat change time!
But when the wind is blowing from the east is okay, too
> When you're facing north, if the wind is coming over your right shoulder the weather is more likely to worsen
@DamkerngT. Yes.
^^^^ Minor sentence.
LOL
> When the wind is blowing from the North,
no fisherman should set forth,
When the wind is blowing from the East,
it is not fit for man or beast.
When the wind is blowing from the South,
it blows the bait into the fish's mouth,
But if the wind is blowing from the West,
that's when fishing's the best!
@DamkerngT. Minor sentence.
OK I'm overdoing it.
10:17
I'd love to give you a Minor Sentence hat!
Hmm, so when I say "idiots!", is it a vocative, an exclamative, or both?
It could be an insult. :P
10:52
0
Q: "I heated it thoroughly before ate it" or "I heated it thoroughly before eating it"?

lolocriptoWhat is the best structure to express the sentence? Past simple+ "before"+ Past simple or Past simple+ "before"+ verb+"ing"

What if we change it a little: "I hated it thoroughly before I ate it"? (0: Would the version with eating be okay?
Must be an awful experience!
1
A: "Bring to a boil" vs. "bring to the boil"

rogermueOald says "to the boil" is BrE and ""to a boil" AmE. http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/boil_2

A good question about generic-noun-phrases.
Up-up!
@CopperKettle You hated it thoroughly? That's sad to hear.
10:59
BTW, @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ., how would you write that in TeX?
I don't even know what that is.
Though it's easy.
(\lambda [(coeffs 1) ...
Just use \bullet.
A-ha! Thanks!
Yeah.
11:01
Hey.
here's something.
Do these sentences mean he same?

I was returning home on foot.
I was returning home walking.
How can I make the font look like a code font again?
@lekonchekon The second looks not that good.
i feel the same way.
I often see that natives skip on words like while.

My mom caught me smoking.
My mom caught me while i was smoking. .-.
and it kind of had me thinking a few months ago whether i could skip on using While whenever i pleased.
@lekonchekon But "I was returning home walking" could hardly be glossed as "I was returning home (while I was) walking"
I even notice them skipping on "By".
I killed him using a knife.
I killed him by using a knife.
11:04
@lekonchekon I'm not sure if we could call that "skipping"
For more info, look up adjunct. :D
Yea, do as Damkerng says. (0:
where do i look it up?
i looked it up on google, most of the results just comprise its meaning, and how one is to the word right.
@lekonchekon The second one isn't ungrammatical, but is an annoying sentence.
is to use*
11:06
In linguistics, an adjunct is an optional, or structurally dispensable, part of a sentence, clause, or phrase that, if removed or discarded, will not otherwise affect the remainder of the sentence. Example: In the sentence "John helped Bill in Central Park.", the phrase in Central Park is an adjunct. A more detailed definition of the adjunct emphasizes its attribute as a modifying form, word, or phrase that depends on another form, word, or phrase, being an element of clause structure with adverbial function. An adjunct is not an argument (nor is it a predicative expression), and an argument is...
@Dam <3 adjunct.
ah.
thanks. :')
You guys are the best. :')
I'm not in my best shape, but thanks. (0:
No problem. (still fiddling with some TeX)
11:18
@DamkerngT. :) You can't say no when you opened the editor.
:D
TeXworks is kinda cute, really!
11:33
Hooray for that!
But really? Nobody tweets that?!
11:59
1
Q: Pronunciation rules for acronyms

Nicola BastianelloUsually I hear all the acronyms (like ASAP) spelled out, even if reading them like they were a word would be possible. So my question is: is there a formal rule for the pronunciation of acronyms? Or would it be possible to pronounce them like normal words but for the sake of clarity this isn't do...

I remember it used to always be A-S-A-P.
Now pronouncing it as "aye-sap" is common.
12:16
Hmph.
I wish learners did more research before asking a question.
Guess that's the inevitable nature of a Q/A.
It makes it easier for people not to do research.
 
2 hours later…
14:14
2
A: How to pronounce the "s" in "apples" in English and American English?

kruboThis is a tricky question, because the answer from a pure phonetic perspective doesn't match the perception of most native English speakers. (Either British or American.) In the phonological perception of native English speakers, the three allomorphs of the plural -s suffix are /s/, /z/, and /ə...

Interesting. Very interesting.
Anonymous
14:28
Yes, that's right, but it's not specifically a property of the plural suffix, just a general phonetic property English has.
Anonymous
We've discussed that in chat before.
Anonymous
Remember this? :-) youtube.com/…
Anonymous
(The time was 1:36)
15:00
Oh, I remember I heard his words as wordt! :-)
15:27
@DamkerngT. Nice answer!
I just heard a use of can that's perfectly natural. I know it's natural, but I can't explain it. It doesn't quite fit in my model of can! (Time to revise the model!)
> I can't miss it.
But this is not the usual use or even the usual meaning of "can".
nods -- But it's perfectly natural, right? So, how can we or should we explain it?
Yes it's natural, and as always I can't explain it when I haven't studied it closely.
I'm now sad that I can't use the beamer class for my presentation.
Oh, why not?
15:38
Since I'm not gonna present the presentation. O_O
Haha! So, theoretically, you can, but you don't need to. :-)
It would've been flashy . . .
It's kewl, even. ;-)
Let's use a billion hyperrefs instead. (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. What sort of modality do you suppose it is?
15:44
I have no idea! Though the meaning is clear: I don't want to miss it.
Anonymous
To me it sounds like I have to see it. The consequences of missing it would be terrible!
Anonymous
Because whatever it is, it's that good. :-)
Anonymous
So it seems like deontic modality to me.
Oh, it was that good!
Anonymous
Can can express deontic, dynamic, or (if negated) epistemic modality.
15:48
It was from Interstellar. A dad and a daughter stumbled upon a secret code and they were able to crack it as a location on the map. The dad decided to go there, but wanted his daughter to stay home. And she said, I can't miss it.
Anonymous
Oh!
Anonymous
Objective deontic necessity?
@DamkerngT. Do you refer to the scene where a lot of dust has fallen in a strange pattern on the floor?
A nice scene.
Exactly!
Anonymous
15:53
I haven't seen that movie.
I've been watching "One of our aircraft is missing (1942)", and the only new words I've learned so far is "pack up" (malfunction)
Anonymous
What system do they travel to again? I think I asked this before, but I forgot!
@snailboat It's nice to watch once.
They travel to a warp zone, and through it somewhere far away.
Anonymous
Ohh, right.
I can't even remember! But they had to go through a worm sphere.
15:55
A wormhole!
According to that scientist in the movie, it's a sphere. :P
There are some nice twists, with the time passing too fast near a black hole, for instance.
What is mean of "still the same Sajad" ? (Sajad is a Iranian-name)
@DamkerngT. I'll bow to the authority then. (0:
@Shafizadeh No idea. That would depend on the context, methinks.
@Shafizadeh It means "he hasn't changed a bit". BTW isn't that "Sajjad"?
Anonymous
15:56
That question would be easier to answer with more context.
Anonymous
But what @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. said.
@CopperKettle There's a book about the science of the movie. I haven't read it yet. :-)
@DamkerngT. I read some discussions at StackExchange actually.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I see, and no it isn't
Anonymous
15:57
@DamkerngT. The established word would still be wormhole, though, I think. Not to say that you can't call it a wormsphere :-)
Wormholes, snailboats.. what a strange world we're living in. (0:
@Shafizadeh Yes it is, if you want to romanize "tashdid" correctly.
Anonymous
Snailboats are perfectly normal molluskcraft.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. emm seems correct ..! Where are you from?
15:59
@Shafizadeh Iran
Anonymous
Poor Ponyo the snail! She was snailing along with her shell on her back, the shell wobbling back and forth, when she wobbled a bit too far, and the shell fell over to one side! She seemed quite surprised when she fell over.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. oh really?! well nice to see you ..!
@snailboat Oh, no! Poor Ponyo!
Anonymous
She recovered quickly :-)
@Shafizadeh Nice to see you too!
16:00
BTW, @Shafizadeh, welcome to the room!
@snailboat Good to hear that! She must've overindulged on XMas! (0:
Anonymous
Welcome to ELL chat, @Shafizadeh!
@snailboat She's got talent!
@snailboat That's like when I fall from my bike.
Anonymous
I rode a bike into a tree when I was little.
16:01
Ouch!
Anonymous
Bikes are dangerous!
Poor tree.
That's too bad.
Anonymous
The tree was fine :-)
Anonymous
16:02
@CopperKettle You know, here in California, we have really big roads. At least, compared to where I grew up. The lanes are really wide, and we've got lots of them!
Anonymous
And we have special bike lanes. They started painting them green recently.
Oh. The tree must have not seen you. Did it apologize?
@snailboat That's great! I remember you grew up near the Great Lakes!
@snailboat Speaking of which . . .
Anonymous
But the law lets drivers go in the bike lanes for 100 feet before turning right.
16:03
@snailboat Bike lanes! That's really nice!
Anonymous
And sometimes they go in the bike lanes for considerably more than 100 feet.
@snailboat It's strange, but there's quite a bicycle movement here, and there have apeared some dedicated bicycle lanes too!
Anonymous
I'm not convinced the bike lanes are particularly safe from crazy drivers here, despite the special bike lanes!
Anonymous
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. There's a good site with lots of those!
16:04
@snailboat We travel along usual roads in summers, and it's quite scary sometimes.
@snailboat Good is questionable, but yeah.
Anonymous
No, it's a good site.
Anonymous
Lemme find it :-)
This summer, one girl in our group was kicked off the bicycle by a passing car's trailer
16:06
Oh, that's awful! How badly did she get hurt?
There was a jetski in the trailer, and it leaned out.
Anonymous
This site has lots of good pictures of stuff like that.
@DamkerngT. She didn't get hurt since she's Russian?
@DamkerngT. She got quite a gash below the knee. We had to escort her to the surgery to get it stitched over.
16:07
Better than having anything broken.
@snailboat Not bad, not bad!
I treated her wound en route, there were sinews visible.. quite bad.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. A challenging bike lane!
nods
@DamkerngT. A wet bike lane.
Luckily I had the peroxide and bandages and stuff.
@DamkerngT. @snailboat thanks :-)
@CopperKettle Oh, you always have them with you! That's very thoughtful. :-)
@DamkerngT. Yep, I have a regular medical kit. (0:
@snailboat Erm
@DamkerngT. That's how bikerz™ are.
ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
@DamkerngT. But overall that was a great bicycle ride.
16:13
Lots of nice views!
Chusovaya is a beautiful river. It was used to ship metal to the European part of Russia from Ural factories until about 1880
@DamkerngT. It has a lot of cliffs, and each has its own name.
Because the people who drove the rafts with metal and products along the river had to remember all the features of the shore.
Anonymous
Ooh, this one was added after last time I checked the site: homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/…
@CopperKettle Are you a mountain climber (or whatever they call) too? It could be a real fun!
Anonymous
Anyway, I like that site. I'll stop linking to it now :-)
@DamkerngT. No, I haven't tried that yet. (0: I climbed some cliffs here, but they are not that hight. (0:
16:16
I think I just mixed up "fun" with "joy"
Anonymous
Fun!
We climbed Shunut, the highest set of cliffs in the region.
We had to ride to it, and then go on foot across the bogs for a couple of hours. (0:
Carrying the bicycles. (0:
Great exercise! :-)
Anonymous
I starred your link!
16:19
I piled on!
It's a view from Shunut (0:
Anonymous
Wow, that's pretty
@snailboat Thanks! (0:
I can even feel the wind from here!
@snailboat I still haven't repaired the bicycle after that ride! It was hell to get there through the bogs, and its out of shape. (0:
Here's a fellow bicyclist for scale (0:
16:21
King of the hill!
(0:
We missed the last train home on our way back, by about 3 minutes. (0:
Oh, did you have to ride the bike home?
Anonymous
@CopperKettle How broken is it?
@snailboat the brakes need fixing, and there's sand everywhere, needs cleaning. (0:
@snailboat And I lost the backwheel mudguard, since we drove in a driving rain. (0:
@DamkerngT. Luckily, one of us had a friend with a dacha there.
A dacha?
16:25
"dacha" is a kind of summer house in Russia
and we spent the night quite well. (0:
Oh, that's nice!
A dacha (Russian: да́ча; IPA: [ˈdatɕə]) is a seasonal or year-round second home, often located in the exurbs of Russian and other post-Soviet cities. A cottage (коттедж, kottedzh) or shack serving as a family's main or only home, or an outbuilding, is not considered a dacha, although recently purpose-built dachas have been converted to year-round residences, and vice versa. In some cases, dachas are occupied for part of the year by their owners and rented out to urban residents as summer retreats. People in dachas are colloquially called dachniks (дачники); the term usually refers not only ...
Thanks for a new word!
We got 100% wet, so we disrobed and tried to dry the clothes!
(0:
It was helluva rain outside, at midnight
16:27
In short, it was a great adventure, like in "Interstellar". We had water and danger. (0:
No wormholes, though.
No tsunami either, I hope. :P
No, there are no tsunamis here. (0:
What about native lifeforms (like bears)? :P
16:30
There are animals in the woods, but we did not meet a bear, luckily. (0:
There are quite a lot of tourists going to Shunut Mountain, and bears might be wary going there.
Anonymous
@CopperKettle Better than having danger and no water, I guess? :-)
@snailboat (0: In the Interstellar, there's a water planet. (0:
The most dangerous species I usually run into on my vacations is... mosquito. :-)
Anonymous
Mosquitoes! :-(
16:33
There are quite a lot of them here! They are small and pesky.
@DamkerngT. One quite dangerous things in springtime here is ticks
Tick-borne encephalitis (TBE) is a viral infectious disease involving the central nervous system. The disease most often manifests as meningitis, encephalitis, or meningoencephalitis. Although TBE is most commonly recognized as a neurological disorder, mild fever can also occur. Long-lasting or permanent neuropsychiatric sequelae are observed in 10 to 20% of infected patients. The number of reported cases has been increasing in most countries. The tick-borne encephalitis virus is known to infect a range of hosts including ruminants, birds, rodents, carnivores, horses and humans. The disease can...
Oh!, Good thing I'm not in the red zone!
Anonymous
Yikes!
Some people get heavily affected or even die each season.
nods
(I just have my hornets and bees.)
I have undergone a series of anti-encephalitis shots to be able to go to the woods.
16:37
(And sometimes snakes, and a monitor)
@DamkerngT. A monitor? A lizard?
(Apologies for the chime, I'm going to duck out and sleep now, but I thought some people in here might appreciate that.)
@CopperKettle nods -- It's better to take a precaution.
@CopperKettle Yes!
@jimsug Have a good sleep!
And thanks for the link.
@jimsug Sleep tight, Jim!
Anonymous
16:40
@jimsug Dunno, but three sibilants in a row like that doesn't really work very well in that function, I think.
Anonymous
The alternatives give you an opportunity to build up air in the mouth.
Anonymous
Word of the day: multigravida
3
Nice!
Mother Heroine (Russian: Мать-героиня, Mat'-geroinya) was an honorary title in the Soviet Union awarded for bearing and raising a large family. The state's intent was not only to honor such large families but also to increase financial assistance for pregnant women, mothers of large families and single mothers, and to promote an increased level of health in mother and child. == Award HistoryEdit == The honorary title "Mother Heroine" was established on July 8, 1944 by Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet. Its statute, including multiple increases in available state pensions for t...
I wonder if there's any equivalent word for the husband.
@CopperKettle Hah!
@DamkerngT. Don Juan? (0:
16:45
LOL
@snailboat Not sure if I'll ever use that in my life, but thanks!
"The honorary title "Mother Heroine" was established on July 8, 1944 by Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet." --- one can guess the reason..
BBL!
See you later!
@DamkerngT. Father Marijuana.
07:00 - 17:0018:00 - 23:00

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