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00:00
The Free Dictionary covers all (with 4 possible plural forms!): clownfish or clown·fish·es or clown fish or clown fish·es: thefreedictionary.com/clown+fish
pulling hair!
00:21
0
Q: "I knew that you are busy in a meeting" is this correct, while the meeting is still going on?

user9788I am not sure, if the sentence ""I knew that you are busy in a meeting" is correct. I think it is incorrect as it has past tense(knew) and present (are). pls. correct me

Interesting.
> I knew you're busy. -- sounds wrong
> I know you're busy. -- thinking in the present
> I knew you'd be busy. -- This should work for thinking in the past.
The context of the OP is unclear, though.
We sort of have the context, but the intended meaning is unclear.
The pattern: It's [duration (e.g. two hours/days/years)] since I [did something].
It looks like the present perfect is not mandatory for this pattern, even though it has since.
Which is why I decided not to upvote this answer, even though I was about to!
0
A: Ways to refer to past time

user3169I would say: I woke up at 10 and it's been an hour since I woke up. it is an hour does not work, because it just states time (one hour) as an object. A form of to be is needed. See be: 1c) to remain or continue ⇒ "will he be here long?"

The string "It's an hour since" has some results on Google Books.
(Of course, "It's been an hour since" has four or five times more results.)
A discussion on another forum seems to agree with my idea: usingenglish.com/forum/threads/…
 
2 hours later…
02:48
Hmm...
How would people say [...] get back to work!?
Stop talking rubbish and get back to work!Araucaria 12 hours ago
Could be interesting to check out more examples.
03:04
<--- That's different from Get back! The meaning's different and there's no content word after back in the last example and therefore no other candidate for the nuclear syllable. It is possible to say get back to work, in that sentence, but it's less likely. — Araucaria 12 hours ago
Hmm...
How many ways are there that we can stress that sentence?
My rule of thumb: stress only words you think important. Most of the time, most speakers will have a similar stressing pattern for a given utterance (though possibly different intonations, according to their accents). But they may adjust the pattern accordingly when they want to emphasize something unusual. Then again, this is not the easiest rule (and thus probably not the best) because it requires you to know what native speakers think important in each and every given case. (Virtually, native speakers "just know it".) And this needs a lot of exposure and practice. — Damkerng T. 1 min ago
 
4 hours later…
06:56
\o @Stoney!
 
1 hour later…
08:22
> Badly expressed and inaccurate rules, in turn, become enshrined in grammar books directed at teachers and students. The misrepresentation of English grammar gives a false view of the language, perpetuates inaccurate 'rules', and results in errors in communication.
> --Longman English Grammar, L. G. Alexander.
@Stoney didn't talk. :(
@DamkerngT. Talk about obvious . . .
LOL
Sometimes it's good to take a closer look at our teachers' or grammar book authors' language.
I think this excerpt is quite succinct.
It's easy to read, and it's succinct.
Yeah yeah, all hail L.G.A. and whatever.
Hehe!
BTW, the number of my tabs is under 2000 now. (Yippie!)
Yay!
Man, my latest meta drama caused some laughter, some tears, some apologizing etc.
08:30
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Eh? The big picture one?
Correction: big pictures. ;-)
Hmm... where's that link again?
Found it.
It's not easy to see tears from this distance.
Tears were in chat.
I wonder what 'ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp' means...
It's lost now.
@DamkerngT. What?
08:33
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Oh!
I spotted it in several posts today. This is one of them: ell.stackexchange.com/a/39834/3281.
Is @Arau p'ing?
Hehe!
Dunno.
I was hoping to ask him, but he was in and out several times today, in both rooms.
I didn't want to add two es to that verb, though I really liked to.
Y'know, I think your Meta post is about as long as a chapter in a novel!
-5
Q: Etymology StackExchange?

LePressentimentSometime ago within the past few months, my Area 51 proposal for Etymology was closed unilaterally by a moderator, who believed the proposal a duplication. Here's a recreation motivated by the following recent epiphany. Would a universal etymology question differ and help? Today, fortuitously, t...

08:37
Huh?!
I think ELU is okay with etymology questions.
Though I think the question should be something not easy to look up in Etymology.com.
@DamkerngT. The ones that start with I'm considerably fucked?
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Haha! -- I was thinking of an average novel, nothing particular in mind.
I wonder how many sockpuppets will crop up or resurface...
Tell me what's going on in that circuit.
I don't really look. I just heard.
Ya know you can always flag if you believe something fishy is going on about a user, right?
08:49
Because I don't look, I think I will know it after you. :-)
Huh? I didn't talk about ELL.
Somewhere out there in Area 51.
Out where?
COMMON! SPIT IT OUT!
Well, somewhere. :-)
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
08:52
LOL -- I typed to Google etymologist and Google thought it was a misspelling. It suggested entomologist. :D
Hah!
I sometimes feel in love with Google.
BTW, your emoticon is quite vivid.
I can imagine you doing that face!
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
:D
Have you seen my face?
Search for MARamezani in Google.
08:54
I think I haven't.
So I assume that you look like that emoticon. :P
Apparently, I'm a pretty girl.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Or a 50-something man. :P
BTW, have you ever tried Blaze?
09:01
Oh, I thought you might've known about it 'cause you've spent much time on Meta SE.
jimsug mentioned it a couple days ago, and it's very cool!
Note that I've not spent much valuable time on meta.SE.
09:21
> For example, to speak of 'the omission of the article' in e.g. 'Life is difficult' is a misrepresentation of what happens. We actively use the zero article here, we do not 'omit' anything.
> --Longman English Grammar, L. G. Alexander.
Interesting.
09:44
"I woke up at 10 and that was an hour ago" is what I would probably say. Or "I woke up at 10 and it's been an hour already [since I woke up]." — User1 11 hours ago
An interesting utterance.
I think it's highly redundant.
Anonymous
10:02
What is the redundancy?
Anonymous
I have Finding Nemo in Japanese. I have it in English too, but ironically, I can't find where I put Nemo…
Anonymous
My DVDs are so unorganized!
Anonymous
9
Q: Can I rephrase the sentence "Can you explain this word to me?" into "Can you explain me this word."

user48070 Can you explain this word to me? Can I rephrase it as Can you explain me this word?

A very well-researched question.
Anonymous
This is an opportunity to discuss which verbs participate in the dative alternation
10:50
Hi!
Hullo @User!
How are you?
Fine, kinda.
Good.
Where is the error in the sentence?
Had I been (a) / at your place (b) / I would not have (c) / approved your proposal (d) / No error (e)
No error that I see.
Let me take a closer look.
Maybe at your place.
Anonymous
10:58
A
Anonymous
It's grammatical but it doesn't make sense
Wait, I think so.
Yes.
HOW. EVER.
There aren't many things that make sense in Indian English textbooks. No offense there @user.
Anonymous
They want in rather than at
I think so.
11:14
@snailboat Aww...
Wait, in for at would make (b) the answer.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M @snailboat @DamkerngT. Yes.
Answer is A.
That's a surprise.
It's because it doesn't make sense.
11:18
The preposition in should be used instead of at
But it's in (b), not (a).
Oh
I am so sorry, I meant to say option B
Oh! Phew!
@DamkerngT. Well, we said the author is too stupid to realize it doesn't make sense.
And they had B in mind.
Actually, I think the sentence could work in a weird context. :P
Aww... snailboat left already. -- I'm a little tired myself too today.
11:21
"I eat @Damkerng" could also work in weird context.
Oh, snailboat is back! :-)
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Any weird but grammatical sentence could work in a weird context. :P
Anonymous
Oh, sorry, I guess it's B, then
It doesn't mean it's something you could/should say in every-day conversation.
Anonymous
I saw (a) before at and thought that part was A :-)
@snailboat It's about formatting. I like it better when this kind of question is on real paper.
@snailboat The same thing happens to me very often!
11:23
Huh.
So we could reasonably blame @snail.
Anonymous
The at version would be weird not only because of the meaning, but because of a rather harsh clash between formal and informal style.
OMG are children books really like this o'er there?
Hagu is pleading!
Anonymous
When people say at your place meaning 'where you live', it's informal. But the rest of the sentence sounds formal.
Hmm... approve a proposal doesn't sound very formal to me. Just my opinion, though.
I guess it could work in a goofy Japanese dorama or movie. :P
Like Mr. B is hiding a secret from Mr. A and Mr. B keeps the evidence at his house or something. :D
Anonymous
11:27
What would be the formal way to say it then?
I think it's the same in both formal and normal contexts.
Anonymous
The initial inversion and the uncontracted have both mark the sentence as formal in style
Hagu is biting me!
Anonymous
Putting something informal in would make it sound odd.
Ah, you meant the Had you been part.
(I think)
Ouch!
Anonymous
11:31
Yes, Had I been is one of the signs that this sentence is formal in tone
@DamkerngT. Did he see
10 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M
"I eat @Damkerng" could also work in weird context.
?
Possibly!
But I think he just wanted his snack.
Does he eat metal?
It was more like a nibble rather than a bite.
Sometimes he does that if his pleading was unsuccessful. :D
11:47
Hi all! A little question: does sine take articles?
"I've used the double-angle identity for (the?) sine" -- I"m not sure
I've seen it used with the a lot.
BBL, ping me (0:
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Thanks!
I've been asking this question..
1
Q: Am I right in calculating $\sin(2\arcsin(\frac{1}{3})$ as $\frac{4\sqrt{2}}{9}$?

CopperKettleI've been solving a problem in my textbook, and my result is at odds with the textbook's: $$\sin\left(2\arcsin\left(\frac{1}{3}\right)\right)$$ My answer is $$\frac{4\sqrt{2}}{9}$$ I've used the double-angle identity for sine. $$\sin\left(2\arcsin\left(\frac{1}{3}\right)\right)=2\sin\left...

And it made me wonder
BBL
Though I don't know for sure, I think it sounds iffy to me with or without the. But the sine could more sense, I think.
Hmm... in the question, I'd probably use sin(). :-)
I'd use the sine.
It'd make my argument sound more right.
After thinking for a while, I think it doesn't matter. :D
The only thing that matters in mathematics is numbers.
Hehe! Still, its grammar aspect is about proper noun vs. common noun, I think.
(i.e. "thing" vs. a reference to "thing")
BTW, @snailboat, is this a typical story opening in Japanese?
> ある日の事でございます.
12:07
Does it mean I'm pretty much fucked?
Definitely not!
Then I think the answer would be a no.
It's strange that I took a look at two Japanese stories, and found one with that, and another with this:
> ある日の暮方の事である.
They don't seem to be the same after the fourth thingy.
(Roughly, "One day." and "One night. @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M)
12:09
Trust me, I'm good at matching pics . . . Oh!
ある日の = one?
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Looks like you are!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hmm... I think "one" is implied.
日 = day
Cool now I'm totally Japanese. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
Yay!
I can see possible uses of other characters, but I can't think of one for ᕙ and ᕗ
Is it from an esoteric language?
(Like hieroglyphic?)
Ask that guy.
Oh, it's Unicode U+167F!
12:18
@Dam what's this Sondanese language?
The range 0x1400 - 0x167F is for Unified Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics.
I guess that's Sondanese!
Very halpful, as always.
Eh? I think that's not right!
> Sundanese /sʌndəˈniːz/ is the language of about 39 million people from the western third of Java or about 15% of the Indonesian population.
Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing would look like the one on this page:
Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing, or simply syllabics, is a family of abugidas (consonant-based alphabets) used to write a number of Aboriginal Canadian languages of the Algonquian, Inuit, and (formerly) Athabaskan language families. They are valued for their distinctiveness from the Latin script of the dominant languages and for the ease with which literacy can be achieved; indeed, by the late 19th century the Cree had achieved what may have been one of the highest rates of literacy in the world. Canadian syllabics are currently used to write all of the Cree languages from Naskapi (spoken...
scanning for the character...
I have to admit that I couldn't find it in the image!
Me neither.
Oh! It's "fa"!
12:26
Who's Farsi?
Huh? I think Farsi is another name for Persian.
ᕙ = fa, ᕗ = fo
You say something is fa, which is the abbr. for Farsi.
Hah! Then what's foo?
Dunno!
But at least I can read your emoticon now. :D
Read it aloud so I can hear.
ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ --> fa (⇀‸↼‶) fo
12:29
I thought you meant the face is something Japanese.
I think the face is made of symbol characters.
Probably two arrows and one little thing. :D
Yep, that describes me.
1
Q: I wonder about answers in the TOEFL exam

Sirinat PaphatsirinatthiFirstly ___ at the turn of the century, the Minnesota State Capitol building is made of white granite and marble. Erected Was erected To erect it Erecting it I think 3 and 4 are incorrect and the answer should be 2 because the building was erected, but the solution is 1 Why? Secondly...

I was about to say that it was fast...
But it's from last week!
2
A: event to place without

SolarLunixHonestly, this looks like someone just missed the word "take" it probably should read: It is rare in modern Russia for a public or political even to take place without the church present. In the ...

Haha!
That makes perfect sense!
Is the querent a TOEFL-level learner? I doubt that.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Could be.
Anonymous
12:40
Sure, there are stories that begin like that
Is it sort of like "Once upon a time" in English?
3
Q: go hang -- meaning?

Cookie MonsterExample (short audio clip): And I stress this point because I will get programmers tell me that they're fine with one-dimensional arrays and maybe they get two, but beyond that they think it gets kind of weird and geeky and esoteric and maybe you need some kind of special mental clockwork to ...

I sometimes wonder the reason behind bounties.
Anonymous
That would be more like むかしむかし
How/why has the question not received attention?
Anonymous
ある日のことである is more like "One day, ..."
Anonymous
12:47
I think である (formal but not markedly polite) is more common than でございます (both formal and polite) in narration, but there are certainly stories that use the other
Anonymous
MAR, ある日 is 'one day'
Anonymous
The whole sentence is hard to translate into idiomatic English, but it tells the reader that the story that follows happened one day.
Anonymous
This ある is 或る, a non-inflecting word that is sometimes glossed 'a certain ...'
Anonymous
It isn't the same word as the verb ある, although it was the same word historically
@snailboat Oh, so this ある really means "one"?
I see: "a certain day".
Anonymous
12:57
"One day" is the most natural translation a lot of the time
Anonymous
It's a way of introducing the noun that follows without being specific
Anonymous
So it introduces 日 'day' without saying what day it is
Anonymous
It belongs to a part of speech called 連体詞 which Martin calls 'adnouns' in English
Anonymous
連体詞 are non-inflecting premodifiers of nouns
Anonymous
Etymologically they come from other parts of speech: あの and 我が come from noun+particle, ある and とんだ come from verb forms
Anonymous
13:06
確たる and 小さな come from adjective forms
13:20
@DamkerngT. Thanks!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M No truer words were ever spoken!
BBL
Anonymous
By the way, the verb ある 'exist (inanimate)' is in alternation with the verb いる 'exist (animate)'. You generally use the latter with people and animals
Anonymous
But the adnoun ある is frequently used with animate nouns: ある人 is fine
Anonymous
There is no adnoun いる
20:53
@snailboat Adnoun!
Anonymous
Yes, that's right. Called 連体詞 in traditional grammar
in ELL's Cabin, 2 hours ago, by snailboat
Doesn't correctness align with the "idea of what people should mean"? The asker explicitly asks for correctness. A popular mistake (or, as snailboat pointed out in a comment on the question, a dated practice) does not constitute correctness, but merely acceptance. Correctness is absolute, so my pedantry is necessary. — talrnu 1 hour ago
in ELL's Cabin, 2 hours ago, by snailboat
"Correctness is absolute, so my pedantry is necessary."
Anonymous
21:16
The question is not “why do Americans” but “why do ignorant Americans’... But rephrasing it that way turns it into a rhetorical question. — Jim Jun 26 at 21:40
Anonymous
I'm not happy with characterizing an accent difference as 'ignorance'
Oh, that sounds weird!
in ELL's Cabin, 37 mins ago, by snailboat
The genitive NP has to immediately preceding the verb in -ing form:
Anonymous
Of course, a pronoun in accusative form doesn't work if the -ing form isn't a verb! If it's a noun, the head of a noun phrase, then you need the genitive form:
@snailboat I would argue it's probably some sort of eggcorn.
Anonymous
> I enjoyed his/*him [reading of the poem].
Anonymous
21:21
Here, we can tell reading is a noun because it takes an of-PP as a complement
Anonymous
If it were a verb form, the poem would be a direct object instead: reading the poem
Anonymous
This is actually analogous to our discussion of Japanese
Anonymous
> 日本語の勉強をする [ nihoɴgo=no benkyō ]=o suru 'do [studying of Japanese]'
Anonymous
@Catija The historical spellings that don't make sense anymore are the three particles は・を・へ, which are pronounced wa, o, e, but are spelled like ha, wo, he
Anonymous
Along with writing the long vowel /oo/ as though it's ou
Anonymous
21:26
おう 'king' is pronounced the same as おお
I think I'd better copy your examples over here.
Anonymous
It's tricky for learners, unfortunately, because in some cases おう is pronounced /ou/
in ELL's Cabin, 46 mins ago, by snailboat
> 1. He resented Kim being promoted to manager.
> 2. He resented Kim's being promoted to manager.
> 3. He resented Kim, after only two years, being promoted to manager.
> 4. *He resented Kim's, after only two years, being promoted to manager.
in ELL's Cabin, 46 mins ago, by snailboat
(adapted from CGEL p.1192)
in ELL's Cabin, 45 mins ago, by snailboat
> 5. He objected to Kim having three tries and Pat __ only two.
> 6. *He objected to Kim's having three tries and Pat's __ only two.
Anonymous
王  おう  'king'  pronounced /o/ then /o/
追う おう  'chase'  pronounced /o/ then /u/
Anonymous
先生 せんせい 'teacher' pronounced /e/ then /e/
21:29
@snailboat Yeah, I do actually know that, it just slipped my mind.
Anonymous
Ah, I just habitually went over the rules since there are only five main exceptions in kana spelling :-)
Anonymous
I should figure out a good minimal pair to show /ee/ and /ei/
Anonymous
ため息 /tameiki/ 'sigh' is a good example where the 'ei' sequence is pronounced /ei/
Anonymous
先生 /sensee/ 'teacher' is a good example where the 'ee' sequence is typically pronounced /ee/
Anonymous
They aren't as cool as おう and おう though :-)
21:39
@snailboat Oh, yes! I think I've never heard it pronounced /sensei/.
Or maybe my ears just couldn't catch that /i/.
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. The two orthographic exceptions in long vowels in Japanese are /oo/ and /ee/, which are sometimes written as though they're 'ou' and 'ei'. But the two cases differ somewhat
Anonymous
王 'king' is never pronounced /ou/
Anonymous
先生 'teacher' is almost always /sensee/, but you still might hear /sensei/ sometimes
in ELL's Cabin, 58 mins ago, by snailboat
Most languages have, at a minimum, a verb like do which can function as a light verb.
Hehe! I wouldn't never have thought of the light do in Thai if you hadn't mentioned that. :-)
In Thai, we say we [do-work] to mean "we work".
And [doing-work] to mean "We're working".
(ทำงาน -- กำลังทำงาน)
Anonymous
Oh, by the way, sometimes you might hear people pronounce each mora separately in Japanese, like they're spelling a word kana-by-kana, and in cases like that, you might hear them pronounce the words the way they're spelled, so ど・う・ぞ might be pronounced /do u zo/ rather than /doozo/, but that's not very common. You can hear this, though, as an extreme form of emphasis, not just to demonstrate how a word is spelled.
Anonymous
21:48
@DamkerngT. A-ha!
@snailboat And I've never thought of it as two words before!
ทำงาน is ทำงาน -- I mean, it's so common a word that it makes it very easy to think of it as one word.
And งาน [work] can have a wider range of meanings.
@snailboat Maybe the speaker, when emphasizing such words, are thinking that they're spelling each syllable or mora out for the listener. :D
in ELL's Cabin, 1 hour ago, by StoneyB
I've done some poking around and found that "compound verbs" are Light-verb + Non-verb consructions and omnipresent in Persian, and I thought somebody with a good understanding of this could explain to Ahmad how English is different.
Nice!
in ELL's Cabin, 1 hour ago, by StoneyB
Apparently Persian (is there a difference between Persian and Farsi?) has for some centuries been replacing its verbs with compound verbs.
> 1. 英語を勉強する  Eigo=o benkyō-suru  'study English'
2. 英語の勉強をする Eigo=no benkyō=o suru 'study English' (lit. "do studying of English")
See, in #2, marking 英語 Eigo 'English' as a direct object would be quite impossible, because 勉強 benkyō 'studying' is already the direct object.
But in #1, where する is attached directly to the noun, they form a single unit which takes a direct object as a complement.
And it's not する selecting the object; some noun+suru combinations are intransitive.
Anonymous
So you can see that 勉強する is not ellipsis; you aren't simply leaving out を from 勉強をする
Anonymous
And 勉強する is not a direct object + verb
Anonymous
To put it properly, I would say
Anonymous
21:59
1.    英語を (direct object) 勉強する (predicator)
2. 英語の勉強を (direct object)   する (predicator)
Anonymous
The phrase 勉強する functions as a predicator (the same function a verb by itself usually has)
Anonymous
It's still a phrase, though.
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