Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

06:24

2

Q: Which is better for listening: intensive or extensive listening?

For improving listening capability, which method is better? First, intensive listening: to listen to a sentence or two with dictations. Second, extensive listening: to listen to long range of audios.: I want to know if there are studies about this. (* My case: I’ve adopted first one for around o...

comprehension

Interesting...

Anonymous

theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/11/…

Anonymous

What sort of constituent would you call "free-from"?

Anonymous

> Berriedale-Johnson happily admits that a couple of decades ago most of the free-from products on the market were "pretty inedible".

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Adjective?

Anonymous

An attributive-only, non-gradable adjective

Anonymous

06:27

> These products are *free-from.
> the *free-fromer products on the market
> the *freer-from products on the market

Damkerng T.

Hooray! It crashed, finally!

Anonymous

I thought that perhaps if you use an arbitrary string of words like this, it's nominalized like a quote would be, so it might make sense to call it a noun

Anonymous

But I can't think of any tests that point in the direction of noun over adjective

Anonymous

(Or vice versa)

Damkerng T.

I wonder if it will sound too odd, These products are free-from.

Anonymous

06:29

Well, I think it does.

Anonymous

That's why I gave it a star.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

I can't guarantee that other people agree.

Anonymous

Oh, hey.

Damkerng T.

But its attributive use is new too, I think.

Anonymous

06:30

> And the proliferation of good quality dairy and wheat-free ingredients (take a bow, Dove's Farm) has led to a recent flourish of small, UK-based artisan free-from producers.

Anonymous

They're producing free-from.

Anonymous

That seems to imply that it's a noun, right?

Anonymous

At least, semantically, it seems noun-like.

Anonymous

I think angry producers can only mean producers (of something else) who are angry

Damkerng T.

Could be. But its components aren't nouns.

Anonymous

06:32

Well, not etymologically.

Anonymous

Internally, it has the form of an incomplete phrase.

Anonymous

"Free from gluten!"

Damkerng T.

Thinking of 'cold turkey', which somehow has become an adverb.

Anonymous

Here, free is an adjective, and from gluten is a preposition phrase.

Anonymous

But because "free from X" contains the words "free from" . . .

Anonymous

06:33

I think the string was nouned

Damkerng T.

Hmm... What is "free from X"?

Anonymous

My best evidence is that "small, UK-based artisan free-from producers" phrase :-)

Damkerng T.

A phrase?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. A product that does not include X.

Anonymous

Yes.

Damkerng T.

06:34

What kind of phrase?

Anonymous

Adjective phrase.

Damkerng T.

nods

Free as the head?

Anonymous

Yes.

Damkerng T.

I think we have a similar term in communication technology, but I can't recall the word.

It means connect to X.

Anonymous

I don't know what the term is.

jimsug

06:38

free from X sounds like a plausible adjective phrase, with free as the head and from X as a prepositional phrase adjunct to the AdjP.

Damkerng T.

But what about "free-from"?

Anonymous

I think it's been nouned.

Damkerng T.

It's obvious that it's from "free from X".

Anonymous

9 mins ago, by snailboat

> And the proliferation of good quality dairy and wheat-free ingredients (take a bow, Dove's Farm) has led to a recent flourish of small, UK-based artisan free-from producers.

Anonymous

It refers to products which are marketed as "free from" something, for example gluten.

Damkerng T.

06:40

@snailboat Because we can't modify it with an adverb?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Well, so far I've only seen it appear in attributive position without inflection, which doesn't rule out adjective or noun. But look: it represents a thing which can be produced.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... but "a leading manufacturer' doesn't manufacture "leading".

Anonymous

True.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I just recalled the word: FTTX.

Anonymous

I'm not familiar with that.

Damkerng T.

06:47

Fiber to the X!

Anonymous

Oh!

Anonymous

I've definitely seen that with X replaced :-)

Damkerng T.

I don't know if anyone has used "fiber-to-the" attributively before. :P

Anonymous

Probably not . . . ?

Anonymous

I think it would be confusing.

Anonymous

06:52

Hey, people have used plural "free froms" :-)

Damkerng T.

Hah!

The noun hypothesis sounds plausible now!

Catija

Well, sleeping didn't happen.

Anonymous

Aw. :-(

Damkerng T.

@Catija Welcome back!

Catija

It's ok. I always have trouble falling asleep before 2 am. I like being up late.

Good morning @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Have a good night's rest?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

06:59

Hullo @Cat.

Catija

@DamkerngT. :D Thanks.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But I was just about to leave. :'(

Anonymous

I like being up late, too.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

The tabs were open so I entered the room.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Aww... for the Kung Fu class?

Anonymous

07:00

In theory, I like going out at dawn to find slugs and snails.

Anonymous

But that wakes everyone else up.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No, this is generally a busy day for me. And lots of biking in it too.

Anonymous

And my body clock naturally shifts forward over time . . .

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I gotta leave.

L8R!

Damkerng T.

Later!

@snailboat You can repeat to yourself. "Be the cat. Be the cat." And nobody won't be able to notice you when you walk around. :P

1

Q: When we use both "present perfect" and "past" in a sentence

I remember that I met a girl in a club and she was more beautiful than any of the girls that I've ever met. And her name is Jina. Here, any of the girls that I've ever met can refer to both the girls that I'd met before I met Jina in the club and the girls that I met after I'd met Jina in th...

tense

Hahaha!

Anonymous

07:03

Nobody is a lexical negative, so you'd say nobody will

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, yes. I missed that. Thanks!

(Actually, I didn't even see that!)

(when I was typing it)

Catija

@snailboat Sometimes I feel like I should be on a 26 hour day...

Damkerng T.

@Catija Ugh! 25 is long enough for me already. :-)

Anonymous

My body clock seems to want a day along those lines.

Anonymous

Well, it's expected that with the amount of artificial light I take in outside daylight hours that I'd naturally shift later and later like that . . .

Anonymous

07:06

Though there are tools like f.lux

Catija

I've heard that staring at screens can make you less able to fall asleep immediately.

Anonymous

Oh, yes. With what they call "sleep hygiene", I think they recommend staying away from glowy screens for the hours before you fall asleep. (Fat chance of me ever doing that ;-)

Anonymous

f.lux helps, though.

Anonymous

I say this as someone who's wide awake after midnight.

Anonymous

So I may not have much cred(it)ability :-)

Damkerng T.

07:10

LOL

Catija

@snailboat Same here. I can't imagine not reading (on my iPad) before falling asleep.

jimsug

I've been using flux on my laptop. I think it helps.

Although tbh it's because SE Chat picks up around midnight :/

Anonymous

Me too. When I don't sabotage it in other ways.

Anonymous

@jimsug Native speakers of Japanese tend to be active starting around now-ish.

Anonymous

Since most of them live in Japan.

Anonymous

07:13

1

A: How rude is "dude" in online writing?

It carries almost unlimited connotations. Here is just a small sampling (short clip of stand-up comedy). When someone uses it in a context like this, it is almost certainly meant to convey an ironic or tongue-in-cheek mood. Used here to introduce a sentence, most likely in a comment since those ...

Anonymous

I wonder how many other people believe dude isn't ever rude.

Anonymous

I'm certainly not one of those people!

Catija

@snailboat Um... cowboys? :P

Anonymous

That's what this answer claims. "I don't think it's ever considered rude."

Damkerng T.

Is dude rude?!

Anonymous

07:14

I was surprised.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Well, I think it can be.

Damkerng T.

Oh, yes. Anything could be rude when used improperly.

Anonymous

I'm sure people say it all the time without any problems :-)

Catija

As in, "Hey, dude, get out of my face".

Damkerng T.

(Even something simple like "Yes!")

@Catija nods

On the other hand, dear could sound, hmm... not sure if it's rude, but it's at least weird.

Catija

07:17

@DamkerngT. The word you're looking for is "patronizing".

Damkerng T.

Yes! Thanks!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Dear can depend entirely on who's saying it.

Damkerng T.

In ell.stackexchange.com/posts/57633/revisions, J.R. edited the word dears out, and used you instead.

Anonymous

Oh, that's probably not so much because of rudeness, so much as, well, it doesn't make any sense . . . ?

Damkerng T.

nods -- I think no rudeness was intended there, but reading the before-edited version makes me feel weird. :-)

Anonymous

07:20

It's definitely weird.

Anonymous

Dear is usually used vocatively.

Anonymous

It's not a second person pronoun.

jimsug

The distribution of when dude's rude/patronising is interesting.

And it ties into power/solidarity dynamics.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, hmm... Isn't a word such as Mom, Dad, etc. a second pronoun? Hmm... maybe it's just a noun.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Nope.

Anonymous

07:25

> *Mom, are Mom going to the store?

Anonymous

> Mom, are you going to the store?

Damkerng T.

@jimsug Indeed. I think most ESL teachers don't teach anything much about this topic.

jimsug

OTOH champ is almost always patronising :P

Anonymous

@jimsug Yeah! You tell 'em, champ!

jimsug

@snailboat Thanks for that, champ.

Anonymous

07:27

So as you can see, Mom can't substitute for a second-person pronoun.

Damkerng T.

nods

Damkerng T.

07:45

0

Q: Videos with lots of English dialogues for a 2 - 3 year old child

Intention is to teach the child (2 - 3 years old) spoken English. I do NOT want shows like Tom & Jerry since there are no dialogues. I found that the child found Finding Nemo to be too slow for her. Which English shows with lots of English dialogues and moving/interactive cartoons or children ...

discussion

Hey, I can't remember when I spoke my first word.

But it was probably when I was almost two.

Sounds like Sesame Street might be a good choice.

Sesame Street? Does it have to be animated? — Catija 55 secs ago

Hehe!

Catija

@DamkerngT. I actually posted that before I saw that you mentioned it here.

Damkerng T.

@Catija I didn't mean that. I meant that we thought of the same idea independently.

> I found that the child found Finding Nemo to be too slow for her.

That's interesting!

Finding Nemo is too slow for her?

Maybe The Powerpuff Girls, then.

It seems like the attention span is becoming shorter and shorter from generation to generation.

Oh, and younger generations seem to be very good at dealing with the "too-many-objects" phenomenon on screen, too.

Catija

A lot of younger kids don't like longer shows... That's my interpretation. In the US, most shows for very young kids are limited to about 10-12 minutes in duration. (they put two of these short episodes into one full episode)

Damkerng T.

That's really short!

Catija

@DamkerngT. Yep. And they wonder why so many kids in the US have ADD.

Damkerng T.

07:56

I remember that when I watched Kamen Riders when I was young, it was about half an hour long and when it ended, I was like, Oh, no!

Catija

@DamkerngT. How young?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... can't remember the exact age, but under 10, I think.

Catija

If you think about it, any given segment on Sesame Street is under about 5 minutes. :) Usually by age 6-8 shows have switched to 25 minute lengths.

Those are two separate statements... I just put them into one comment.

Damkerng T.

A-ha! That's a good point!

In any case, Frozen seems to be popular among children too. So I guess that it has the right pace.

Catija

Nemo is generally very popular with kids... I guess just not hers.

Damkerng T.

08:05

nods -- It was a big surprise for me.

Hmm... but they said "show". Do we have Finding Nemo as a TV show?

Catija

@DamkerngT. Not that I know of, it's a feature length film.

Damkerng T.

nods -- The way I remember it, the pace of Finding Nemo wasn't slow at all.

Catija

08:33

You still in here?

What's the first answer on this question:

0

A: Adjective for someone who is an a-hole?

Reprobate might fit. It can be an adjective or a noun.

For me, it's not the "accepted" answer.

Ah, apparently "self answers" that get accepted are exempt from getting the top spot.

Catija

09:24

Wow, one of the mods removed all but 10 or so of the comments in that 200 comment chain.

0

A: What is the difference between “nope” and “no”?

Some words that we hear give us extra information about how the speaker is organising their conversation. For example when we say So, XYZ, the word so often explains that the speaker is returning to an old topic of conversation. They want to talk about some topic that was mentioned earlier in th...

Damkerng T.

11:22

@Catija This? That person is so _____ that they double parked in a handicap spot.

First word came to mind: selfish.

@Catija Huh? I thought we couldn't accept our own answers!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I think some people might choose such instead and fill the blank in with a noun phrase . . .

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. You can :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Makes sense!

@Catija Oh, precious! My precious comments!

Damkerng T.

11:41

I left the 'free-from' page stay in a tab. The Guardian icon is twirling from time to time. Why do some people like to have their web pages phone home?

jimsug

@Catija I would guess that it was J.R. aand it was the right move.

Damkerng T.

12:15

I think perhaps it's because "big" (and "huge") grammatically fall into the "opinion" category for some reason that I can't fathom - other than that's just how it seems to be - but can also be seen in "big beautiful women", "big ugly sculpture" and "big bad wolf". Other "size" adjectives such as "large/ugly", "large/beautiful" follow the rule more closely: books.google.com/ngrams/… — Matt ♦ Dec 3 '13 at 6:35

^Worth thinking

Big seems to be somewhat exceptional indeed.

4

Q: How can I figure out whether a word is an adverb or an adjective?

How can we confirm the word modifying an adjective is an adverb which may well be adjective sometimes? In this sentence, what are the parts of speech of 'bright' and 'red'? She wore a bright red beautiful dress. Could someone please come up with an example that clearly identifies adjective...

grammar adjectives learning phrasal-adjective

I'm really tempted to write an answer along the lines that, if you're a learner it doesn't really matter what part of speech it is.

And it's more important to know, precisely, what modifies what.

For example, knowing that it's [ a [ politically correct ] idea ] rather than [ a politically [ correct idea ] ] is more important than knowing the parts of speech.

Unless the OP wants to be an English teacher, or studies linguistics, or is required to know parts of speech precisely in their career.

> She wore a beautiful bright Prussian blue dress.

The order "opinion, size, age, shape, color, origin, material, purpose" doesn't hold if we think mindlessly microscopically.

0

Q: "these" or "them"

In the below sentence, can we use the word "these" alone? Is the usage of "these" correct grammatically? "The freedom of the press constitutes one of the best means of transmitting various political opinions and attitudes to the public opinion and forming a conviction regarding these." If yo...

grammar sentence-construction usage

> The freedom of the press constitutes one of the best means of transmitting various political opinions and attitudes to the public opinion and forming a conviction regarding these.

Isn't the use of transmitting a little bit odd?

It's "transmitting opinions and attitudes to the public opinion".

It's a bit like "I want to transmit my idea to your idea." (Huh!?)

Or worse, "I want to transmit this information I have to your information." (Hah!?)

I wish our users always told us about their sources.

0

Q: A recent trend in pronouncing "the"

I have observed a recent trend to pronounce "the" as "thuh" even if it is followed by a vowel (as in "thuh evening.") Is this regional (I live in Alabama) or national? I think it's the latter. And does anyone have an idea about why this has happened? Has the glottal stop become fashionable? ...

pronunciation definite-article historical-change sandhi

I remember that we had a related discussion before in the old room.

(Too lazy to search for anything anywhere at the moment.)

Anonymous

13:22

@DamkerngT. It's actually fairly widespread.

Anonymous

Not all native speakers follow the simple rule given in textbooks

Damkerng T.

@snailboat nods -- I remember that we had a similar discussion before.

You also posted a link to a page with good information which I somehow (shamelessly :P) forget.

Anonymous

Well, I'm fairly sure I just quoted John Wells

Anonymous

> The English as a foreign language learner is advised to use ðə before a consonant sound (the boy, the house), ði before a vowel sound (the egg, the hour). Native speakers, however, sometimes ignore this distribution, in particular by using ðə before a vowel (which is in turn usually reinforced by a preceding ʔ), or by using ðiː in any environment, though especially before a hesitation pause. Furthermore, some speakers use stressed ðə as a strong form, rather than the usual ðiː.

2

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:22

@snailboat Actually, I pronounce the the in the former pair as something between /ðə/ and /ðe/.

@Jason - If people show that their question has room for improvement, it's our duty to lead them. Being nice doesn't necessarily contradict firmness, as outlined in the theory of moderation. But if some of our users don't cooperate and keep answering bad questions, the askers will hardly feel that there's room for improvement in their question. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 1 min ago

OMG I spent half my sense for today on that comment.

That was one exhausting day.

Now I need @Dam to talk to me and stop me from nodding off.

Damkerng T.

21:13

-1

Q: which one is correct “you lack of idea”, “you lack idea”, “you are lack of idea”?

I searched each of these "you lack of idea", "you lack idea", "you are lack of idea" & they all come out some results so there must be someone is using them. But, I do not know which expression is correct! or are they all correct?

word-usage

0

Q: which one is correct "you lack of idea", "you lack idea", "you are lack of idea"?

I searched each of these "you lack of idea", "you lack idea", "you are lack of idea" & they all come out some results. SO I do not know which expression is correct? or are they all correct?

word-usage

The one on ELL got closed, understandably.

Please do not cross-post on different SE sites; it annoys the administration. I have flagged this for deletion, since the version on ELU has answers. — StoneyB 4 hours ago

Because the one on ELU got an answer first.

Which is too bad. I really think it belongs to ELL.

What was done was done, but, meh, the two sites can be very similar.

Sometimes.

Oh, it reminds me of another thing: getting rep points on ELU is easier, just because there are more active users there.

@DamkerngT. I feel you are right, I modified my answer, I feel I confused "It is probable" as "it is likely" with "there is a chance or probability for it" — Ahmad 2 days ago

Reading that again makes me think...

it sounds a bit like, I never trust your comments

or at best, I never think your comments are right until I can't disprove them?

Note to self: What is a 'commenting hazard'?

It's when you post a comment as a gesture of goodwill, and soon are requested for more and more information until your interlocutor is satisfied.

The interaction is quite natural. (I guess I've been on both sides.) It's just that it could be exhausting, sometimes.

You certainly can say "This is a caution time". We just don't. We use "a time for" or "a time to" when we urge people to take a specific action or adopt a specific attitude in a particular situation. Play time, work time, Christmas time are times set aside for different activities. That's the way we use time, and I'm afraid you just have to learn these uses one by one: there's no "rule", or even a useful "rule of thumb". — StoneyB 31 mins ago

I like that!

I'm afraid not. It would be huge: several times the size of a reasonably comprehensive dictionary. You could get a rough idea by Googling, and seeing how many actual hits you get (NOT that meaningless number Google posts at the top) and who wrote them. — StoneyB 25 mins ago

That's actually a very interesting point.

We could do that, but practically we wouldn't do that.

Why?

I think it's because it's inefficient.

Not only for the makers, but also the learners too.

Dictionaries for learners lay down almost far too many senses of each word already.

In this case, it would be sufficient, or at least the dictionaries would be a very good starting point, for a learner to grasp the senses of a word, such as time

Then, as StoneyB suggested, the learner should observe the real usage in the wild.

Which would require lots of reading or listening. Basically, enough interaction or immersion.

Then again, sometimes the two strategies above still aren't quite adequate. That's where idiom dictionaries come in.

Idiom dictionaries and such document what could be said "surprises".

And that should be about it. That should be enough for learning vocabulary and word usage in any language.

Given that a language has good enough resources, it shouldn't be too difficult to learn.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

22:01

@Dam :( why do you have to come when I have to go?

Whatevs. This is the third day I rep-cap in meta.SE.

It's like a dream indeed.

But those unearned reps annoy me sometimes.

Anyways, I have a great answer badge now! Yay!

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Congrats!

Outta here myself too.

Damkerng T.

22:23

A quick drop-in

5

Q: What does the word "a**holes" mean in this context?

I was reading a conversation on Facebook where some one said that "many girls like assholes". I tried to google it, but I couldn't get the exact meaning of the word. Who are assholes in this sentence? and does the word have other meanings? Is it a slang?

meaning meaning-in-context word-meaning

I read that as a stronger version of "Many girls like bad boys".

If said by a boy or a man, chances are he is also another A.

If some girls like bad boys, isn't it the same for men?

Some men seek men who have power, even if they don't treat them well.

@HarryCBurn Hello! And bye!

HarryCBurn

Hey!

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