Language Overflow

Anonymous

00:26

Learners need to observe real usage to learn in any case—you can't learn a language by reading a dictionary

jimsug

00:56

It's like any skill, really. Whether it's learning to play chess, or learning to drive, there might be a manual but you can't learn how to do it well without practice and observation.

Damkerng T.

05:59

@jimsug Totally agree!

Damkerng T.

06:29

3

Q: go hang -- meaning?

Example (short audio clip): And I stress this point because I will get programmers tell me that they're fine with one-dimensional arrays and maybe they get two, but beyond that they think it gets kind of weird and geeky and esoteric and maybe you need some kind of special mental clockwork to ...

meaning

An interesting "go hang".

It could mean "go hang (itself)" as CopperKettle suggests.

But that would mean that the speaker think of "syntax" as if it were a person.

Another possible interpretation is "go hang" means like "syntax can hang somewhere else (like on the wall or something) for a while first; we'll deal with it later".

^*thinks

^or better, 'thought'

Note to self: try not to edit anything when Hagu is begging for food...

1

Q: The meaning of 'If you'll believe me'

What's the meaning of 'If you'll believe me' in this context? It's from a novel 'Baker's blue-jay yarn' by Mark Twain. Well, at last he could hardly flop his wings, he was so tuckered out. He comes a-drooping down, once more, sweating like an ice pitcher, drops his acorn in and says, 'Now I gu...

phrase-meaning

> So he bent down for a look. If you'll believe me, when his head come up again he was just pale with rage.

I think it just means that something unexpected, unbelievable happened. — v kumar 1 hour ago

The comment is correct, of course.

But is it because of the context or the grammar/syntax?

Because I've just read the text, it looks like I can't come up with a counter-example that If you'll believe me is used for any other purpose.

If you will (or If you'll) is not always counter-factual or counter-expectation, I think.

For example, If you'll come with me, ...

Anonymous

06:51

@DamkerngT. Will can definitely be other things than those two.

Damkerng T.

Yes! It's a little surprising that with believe, If you'll seems to really suggest the sense of counter-expectation.

BTW, hello!

Anonymous

Hello! :-)

Damkerng T.

@StoneyB - sigh. I think the more sensible thing would be to close that question and leave this one open. So long as ELU wants to keep entertaining questions like this one, I don't see much point in having a separate community here. — J.R. ♦ 9 hours ago

Oh, J.R. spoke up!

10 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

Which is too bad. I really think it belongs to ELL.

Damkerng T.

07:26

Similar to:

Jul 21 at 5:36, by Damkerng T.

It vs. this/that:

Now we've got:

0

Q: "these" or "them"

In the below sentence, can we use the word "these" alone? Is the usage of "these" correct grammatically? "The freedom of the press constitutes one of the best means of transmitting various political opinions and attitudes to the public opinion and forming a conviction regarding these." If yo...

grammar sentence-construction usage

All fluent speakers seem to know what they should use on a given occasion.

But what's the rule?

Is there even a rule?

Ahh... my suggested edit was rejected (I think, because my suggestion isn't there and it doesn't seem to be pending anymore).

-1

Q: Compound Adjective

(A gut-shaking sound) Does this mean that the sound can shake the gut? or the sound sounds like the shakes of the gut? and if it was like (a gut shaking sound), would this change the meaning?

compound-adjectives

in ELL's Cabin, 19 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

With a little tweak, it could be a good question on ELL.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

\o @Dam!

Damkerng T.

o/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What's up?

Damkerng T.

in English Language & Usage, 13 mins ago, by skull patrol

interesting

I'm at the 4th question, and it seems like I'm from everywhere in the US!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

07:42

Interesting!

@DamkerngT. Second question, I'm from nowhere in the US.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It seems I've traveled from north west to north east.

Question 10.

I traveled to south east.

Damkerng T.

Oops! Nobody calls it truck in the US!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I chose semi-truck.

'Cause I love semi-.

It's asking me what I call things I never called anything.

I end up choosing random stuff and then it dives in navy blue.

Wow.

@Dam look at my rep.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 6999, Nice!

BTW 2011 on ELL is close to the number of my tabs. :P

I think the chart is more or less correct, 'cause I regularly watch The Late Show with David Letterman.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

07:55

That means David Letterman is martian.

Damkerng T.

LOL

He's from Indiana, though.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That's what they all say.

The hell!

Damkerng T.

Hah!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No wonder @snail and I have so much in common.

Damkerng T.

Oh, you call them sneakers, and that fountain bubbler!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:02

When I hear fountain, I get reminded of Shakespeare.

Damkerng T.

Haha!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

60

ethereum

Proposed Q&A site for ethereum which is the next generarion of crypto value and blockchain based consensus network

Currently in definition.

Wow, this proposal has gained 60 followers in two days!

Now, I'm wondering what the heck ethereum is.

Damkerng T.

Oh, the next-gen of Bitcoin?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No relations to organic chemistry?

Damkerng T.

Nope.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:10

BOOOOORIIIING.

Damkerng T.

Ethereum

Ethereum is a blockchain-based virtual machine featuring stateful user-created digital contracts and a Turing-complete contract programming language. Ethereum uses its underlying network unit, Ether, as payment to incentivise a network of peers to provide computational services defined by the smart contracts deployed on the blockchain. In this respect, Ethereum is different from a cryptocurrency, as it is not solely providing a service for transacting monetary value, rather, it is a censorship proof network which can provide user-defined services. Smart contracts can be used to securely execute...

Cryptocurrency

A cryptocurrency (or crypto currency) is a medium of exchange using cryptography to secure the transactions and to control the creation of new units. Cryptocurrencies are a subset of alternative currencies, or specifically of digital currencies. Bitcoin became the first decentralized cryptocurrency in 2009. Since then, numerous cryptocurrencies have been created. These are frequently called altcoins, as contraction of bitcoin alternative. Cryptocurrencies typically feature decentralized control (as opposed to a centralized electronic money system, such as PayPal) and a public ledger (such as bitcoin...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo @Jim!

jimsug

Yello.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug I burnt a proposal you followed.

jimsug

What did I follow?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:11

3

Singles

Proposed Q&A site for people without a relationship.

Currently in definition.

Damkerng T.

It sounds like a good proposal, actually.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It isn't. ಠ_ಠ

Where can I buy, I mean find, a girl my age?

That can't get more opinion-based.

Damkerng T.

Well, some people write books on that!

It could be argued that all of them are subjective, but I remember that SE allows useful subjective answers/discussions.

jimsug

I was keeping an eye on it. It's interesting, but it's not likely to take off, I think. Not without a more defined field.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

If they turn to CW.

@jimsug Yes, I burned them with a discussion.

Damkerng T.

08:18

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Do we have to post such an answer as a CW?

@jimsug Agreed. I doubt whether it will ever take off or get to the next step.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Questions in SO that aren't good fit for SE's new rules turn into community wiki to stop their authors from gaining unjustified repz.

jimsug

@DamkerngT. Nope. But moderators can, and do, convert list-type questions to CW.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Or,

They're locked. Historically.

jimsug

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M And then a not on-topic notice added, I guess.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:20

Yeah.

> Please don't use it as a proof that you can ask similar questions in the future.

BTW my burning them down is here:

5

Q: I'm single. That's great! Now, what can I do here again?

Proposal: Singles OK. So I'll stick to the point. What exactly is this proposal about? I'm reading its title: Proposed Q/A for people without a relationship. That's nice. But what do these single people ask and answer about in this site? Dancing? Literature? Help with school lessons? Fig...

life proposal-scope proposal-description

jimsug

Yeah, I found it ;P

Oh, I got my first Famous Question badge.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yay!

Where?

Damkerng T.

Congrats! On ELL?

jimsug

Ask Ubuntu :3

18

Q: Applications don't appear in the Dash (14.04)

I'm running 14.04 I've had a read through this question, which has an answer which is roughly along the lines of other answers on the web, and doesn't work for me. All Applications Disappear in the Dash I can search all other files without an issue, but when I attempt to search for Appli...

14.04 unity-dash

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That site's too big for my waistline.

jimsug

08:33

I'm not surprised, it's a fairly large site with lots of views, daily. I don't think any of my other questions have even gotten close.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Well, I earned a great answer in meta.SE.

A badge I'm sure I'm not gonna be able to earn in chem.SE.

jimsug

I can't even get Electorate yet in Law, even if I was close to it. Which I'm not, somehow.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Jihoon what do you expect the answers to these questions be? They're gonna be hardly anything more useful than a bare yes/no. I recommend using English Language Learners Chat for comprehension correctness checking. These questions are really too localized, they're hardly going to help any other learner here. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 1 min ago

@Dam I recommended him to dump his questions in chat, but something tells me I'm going to be ignored.

Damkerng T.

1

A: I think these are almost the same meaning. Am I right? - time adverbial clause

Yes they are all acceptable; yes, they all mean the same. Well done.

Hmm...

Sounds like a good comment.

> For the first few weeks after I'd started to work on the new project, I made a lot of mistakes.

jimsug

I don't agree with users getting rep for answering off-topic/ bad questions.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:46

@jimsug I love you.

jimsug

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M my glasses say: aww, shucks

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I meant your glasses.

jimsug

yeah, that's what I thought :/

@DamkerngT. It's not even a good answer. It could've been better.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW you guys wasted one rep.

Damkerng T.

I guess so.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:48

@jimsug No it couldn't. That dang question couldn't just get a @stoney-level answer.

@DamkerngT. No really. That thing's accepted, which means it's not going to get deleted.

Damkerng T.

Oh! I see.

jimsug

Oh yeah. Hmm.

Whoops.

We were too slow with the closing :P

I don't really care about the rep.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Wow, the first VTC'er was Ahmad? Claps

jimsug

In fact, it is my new mission to see how low I can get my post:rep ratio :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I think he's going to be a constructive member of the community.

jimsug

08:50

I mean high.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That's a nice mission, but can you beat this?

Damkerng T.

"I made a lot of mistakes for * days" <-- What's wrong with this pattern?

(It has 0 results.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. The last adverbial clause.

Damkerng T.

That's what I guessed.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's somehow off.

jimsug

08:54

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M What am I trying to beat?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Now I'm trying to figure out why.

Damkerng T.

On the other hand, "I made a lot of mistakes in * days" returned some results.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. That's a weird thing to say, but it's possible.

@jimsug A drum.

jimsug

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Oh, you're on a chromebook?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug It's called chromium!

jimsug

08:56

Ah.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That was a chemist joke. Press ignore.

jimsug

Oh.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I just found $300!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

In your helmet?

Or your jetpacks?

Damkerng T.

In some bank accounts I forgot that I have.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:59

So that's jetpacks.

BTW guys I think we need something like this on meta.ELL too:

2

A: I question the inclusion of edit statements in the posts

I absolutely agree. StackExchange was meant to be free-of-noise. To achieve that goal the askers are encouraged to keep extra fluff outta their post. Edit: Some people think adding things like "background:" or "main question:" or "edit" beautifies and organizes their posts. While I see this clas...

jimsug

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It depends. If your answer is markedly different... then maybe. Especially if it's gotten a lot of votes.

Damkerng T.

Coming from before the time of wiki, I think EDIT: is okay, most of the time.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. No it isn't. ಠ_ಠ

Damkerng T.

In some old wiki-like systems, there was no such thing as revisions, so people patched their pages with things like EDIT: 2003-05-23:.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But saying just

> Edit: Plzzz reopen I hate you.

Isn't really halpful.

Damkerng T.

09:03

That's bad, I agree.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

0

Q: I'm currently doing a job of designing a website. Here, can I say like this?

I'm currently doing a job of designing a website. Here, can I say like this? Designing a website is what I spend most of my time at. Designing a website is what I spend most of my time doing. which one is more proper?

sentence-construction

jimsug

Is that a dictionary question?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

On another note, this question is at least better than the last one.

@jimsug Dunno.

jimsug

Needs details. Is lazy :3

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That's true for 75% of ELL's questions.

OK you made that 150% with that repetition.

Damkerng T.

09:11

> Designing a website is what I spend most of my time at.
Designing a website is what I spend most of my time doing.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I think it's definitive that it's the second version.

jimsug

Yeah, but it's still lazy.

What would an answer say?

Damkerng T.

I wonder where for and on are.

jimsug

> 2. And here are some characters because I need 30 characters.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. They're reserved for the next question.

But I think both for and on work like a charm.

jimsug

09:17

My new hobby is watching Blaze for new comments on ELL :3

Damkerng T.

@jimsug It doesn't work on my browser!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

My new hobby is earning repz in meta.SE.

jimsug

@DamkerngT. What browser?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug FF version -1.

Damkerng T.

@jimsug An old Firefox.

jimsug

09:24

Ah. Hmm.

Damkerng T.

I can get it working on iPad. Cool!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. BTW why don't you update it?

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It's faster.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh?

Damkerng T.

Most people wouldn't notice this, I think.

They would if they had thousands of tabs.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:26

Why is it faster?

jimsug

@DamkerngT. Have I ever asked you why you have thousands of tabs open?

Damkerng T.

@jimsug I guess not. :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug Because he's @Dam.

jimsug

@DamkerngT. Why do you have thousands of tabs open?

Damkerng T.

For me, open tabs == unfinished business. :D

jimsug

09:28

I missed :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug It happens a lot to me.

Sometimes these guys are really talkative.

Damkerng T.

Current status: 2041 tabs, and 39 more windows.

So I think, I have about 3000 tabs in total.

jimsug

gdi, that's a lot of tabs.

Damkerng T.

Sadly, I'm gonna close Blaze, 'cause it doesn't work on this browser.

@jimsug Guilty as charged. :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. I thought electricity crashed robots, like in movies.

Damkerng T.

09:32

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Or boosts the bot up, like Thor did to Iron Man. :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

0

Q: I'm currently doing a job of designing a website. Here, can I say like this?

I'm currently doing a job of designing a website. Here, can I say like this? Designing a website is what I spend most of my time at. Designing a website is what I spend most of my time doing. which one is more proper?

sentence-construction

I'm trying to convince myself there's something wrong with the answer.

Damkerng T.

I think it's not quite right.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's left.

Damkerng T.

> He is whom you want to speak to.

> You want to speak to he!?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes.

jimsug

09:36

It's wrong in application.

You need to substitute the right constituents.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Substitute? This is getting intechemisting.

Is it going to be an addition or anti-addition?

Damkerng T.

The claim:

> Designing a website is what I spend most of my time doing.

> ==> I spend most of my time doing designing a website.

That's another grammar.

Probably not English grammar.

> Designing a website is what I spend most of my time doing.

> 1. Designing a website is it.

> 2. I spend most of my time doing it.

Relativize:

> Designing a website is it I spend most of my time doing (it).

> Designing a website is what I spend most of my time doing.

I think it would look neater in CGEL.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Huh? Huh.

Damkerng T.

I think my most important point is that to use a relative pronoun, we need two clauses.

It's not like we rotate words around like that in the claim.

jimsug

It's not that. It's to do with the specific arguments that spend time can take.

You just can't spend time at [any verb]-ing

Damkerng T.

09:50

That's the sentence 1, I think.

jimsug

> spend time at eating/drinking/watching/reading

Damkerng T.

The doing is sentence 2.

jimsug

but you can spend time doing something. Just... not doing verbing.

Damkerng T.

But sentence 2 is not really doing verbing.

It's doing what.

jimsug

Yeah but what is verbing.

Wait.

No.

Damkerng T.

09:53

Interesting. Do the words from the two clauses leak into each other?

jimsug

I spend most of my time [verbing]

I spend most of my time at [verbing].

Hmm.

I think at [verbing] only works if it's an understood event or activity.

> I row once a week, so I spend most of my evenings doing training.

Damkerng T.

"I spend most of my time doing this." "Huh? What is 'this'?" "Improving this house. Improving this house is what I'm doing. I've been doing it for three weeks now."

jimsug

Ugh. I'm all messed up now. I don't even know anymore.

Damkerng T.

I think 1 is incorrect, and 2 is correct.

Sorry for the typo!

jimsug

1 is most definitely incorrect, or at least non-standard.

2 is more acceptable, if not completely correct.

Damkerng T.

09:59

nods

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug 1 is a number.

jimsug

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M A number is a noun phrase.

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