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00:16
>
To audiences who had been forced to sit through plays in which love was the motive of the intrigue, but who had an instinctive feeling that love, though all very well in its way, was not really quite so important as the dramatists pretended, for after all there were politics, golf, getting on with one's job and all sorts of other things, it was a welcome relief to come upon a dramatist for whom love was a tiresome, secondary business, a quick gratification of a momentary impulse whose consequences were generally awkward.
> --W. Somerset Maugham, The Summing Up, 88
^What a lovely sentence!
Did you lose track before getting to the end? I hope not.
00:33
1
A: Which one is correct "in places recommendation" or "in the recommendation of places"

StoneyBAs a rule of thumb, use VERB-derived-NOUN of X when X is the Patient (Object) of VERB and X's VERB-derived-NOUN when X is the Agent (Subject) of VERB. My recommendation implies† that I made the recommendation. Recommendation of me implies† that someone recommended me. If both the Agent an...

Notable answer! (particularly the first sentence)
(Though I will admit that the question itself was edited too much that I didn't understand it before I dug its old revisions up.)
>
He taught Russian at Waindell College, a somewhat provincial institution characterized by an artificial lake in the middle of a landscaped campus, by ivied galleries connecting the various halls, by passing on the torch of knowledge from Aristotle, Shakespeare, and Pasteur to a lot of monstrously built farm boys and farm girls, and by a huge, active, buoyantly thriving German Department which its Head, Dr. Hagen, smugly called (pronouncing every syllable very distinctly) "a university within a university."
> --Vladimir Nabokov, Pnin, 9
^What an appositive!
(This is getting to look a bit like a sentence appreciation hour for me!)
 
6 hours later…
07:08
Word of the Day: nosh
(and it's singular in AmE. :-)
07:26
Another phrase: gratuitous English
Good afternoon! @Man_From_India
07:55
Good afternoon @DamkerngT. :-)
08:28
2
A: "Giving up all its interests in the olive oil business" - meaning of "interests"

whybirdInterests, in this case, means "shares, rights, or title in the ownership of [...] a commercial [...] undertaking" (meaning #6 in this dictionary.com definition, and related also to meaning #5) Giving up those interests, in this case, implies selling their share of ownership in any and all ventu...

> The Corleone family's thinking of giving up all its interests in the olive oil business and settling out here.
I wonder if it was really about shares, rights, or ownership.
Because I'm not sure if it's even legal!
But I haven't really watched The Godfather anyway.
In any case, I think it should be either sense 6 or 7 in Macmillan Dictionary.
> 6. [countable] a connection with something that influences your attitude or behavior because you can gain an advantage from it
> have an interest in something: The United States had an interest in giving military aid because it provided jobs for American workers.
> 7. [countable] business a legal right to own part of a business or property
> He acquired interests in a number of mines in the area.
09:09
"Yekaterinburg is in for 30C this weekend: +15C on Saturday and +15C on Sunday" (from a local website)
@DamkerngT. I posted an answer in a simply financial sense, but got the following comment: "I think it may go further than just ownership @CopperKettle. This from the OED: The relation of being objectively concerned in something, by having a right or title to, a claim upon, or a share in. From what I remember of the Corleone family - their 'interests' did not just involve ownership..."
So I retracted my answer
 
2 hours later…
11:18
Hello! @StoneyB
1
Q: Verification of tenses of sentences including "would have been"

ManishAs far as I know, "would have been" is used in examples of conditionals, but I am having difficulty in deciding the tense of the statements. That would have been a terrible mistake. Here have been represents present perfect tense(I think) and according to the meaning of statement it feels li...

Our answers are about as confusing as our OP's question!
By the way, for anyone who are preparing for GMAT/GRE/TOEFL/IELTS/etc., no need to remember the test vocabulary (which is another kind of English, in my not-so-humble opinion) by rote. Just read the news, and you will acquire a lot of them automatically.
For example, in wsj.com/articles/…, you'll find surrender, bailout, austerity, overhauls, volatility, acrimonious, debt-stricken, overwhelmingly, referendum, vehemently, deteriorating, harbor, retrenchment, coalition, reliant, cobble, bewilderment, sovereign, default, arrears, cushion, recession, inflict, arduous, avert, enacting, debacle, indispensable, nominal, disbursed, legislation, ...
See, vocabulary is easy.
Why do I recommend news?
It's because news is abundant. It's everywhere. The same piece of news exist in multiple points of view, levels of language and languages, and levels of detail.
You can read its journalese version or layperson version; you can read it in English or in your first language; you can read its in full or only its summary. It's your choice.
But keep in mind that news is virtually not spoken English.
And if you focus on extracting information from the news, you probably won't improve your grammar.
In other news, I wonder how long my recommendation (of reading the news) will be valid.
How long can journalism survive? I don't know.
I don't have a good answer for that.
But right now, everyone can turn themselves into a news source. Every one of us can be a reporter. Every one of us can write, blog, post, tweet, share the clips, and beyond.
Will the journalese survive ten years from now?
I wish I could see the future. ;-)
12:47
1
Q: The very first few weeks (that / when) I spent~~,

jihoonHere are two sentences. The very first few weeks that I spent at the new company, I made a lot of mistake. The very first few weeks when I was new to the new company, I made a lot of mistake. Here, can I use both? the point is that incomplete clause(without object of spent) follo...

> a) The first few weeks, I did that.
b) In the first few weeks, I did that.
Someone when it's fronted, I'd prefer keeping in there.
12:59
-1
Q: How can I improve my Writing Skills

AtineshWriting is an art, It's good way of expressing your thoughts. But not everybody is good at it. I think you don't have to be a professional writer in order to write a good piece of article or blog. I'm not good at writing decent articles. Can anybody suggest me what should I do, How should I impr...

Writing is both art and an art indeed.
A second language learner usually forgets one thing: writing and acquiring a second language are not the same thing and can be trained separately.
(My own metaphor: we can swim with legs only, or arms only; though it's true that we usually use both arms and legs.)
 
3 hours later…
16:03
yesterday, by Damkerng T.
Somehow the availability of corpora all over the web, here and there and them some, reminds me of stock trading.
0
A: a bridge over the river vs a bridge across the river

rogermueGoogle Ngram shows that "a bridge across/over the river" are variants of almost the same frequency. As already said, the two prepositons don't say anything about the kind of bridge. Google Ngram

o/ @Dam king!
How you be today?
I fine good, then you?
I iz goud two, tanks.
Random thoughts about language ^
16:08
Will come blame together not get, at me talk like this.
(made it a proper Tinglish utterance)
Can you believe some stupid internetarians here made up a language Finglish?
It's basically Persian written with an English script.
Like Salam che tori?
That a little too far a stretch for me!
Yeah, it's like using English letters to say something Thai.
It's even more widespread in India; ask @Man for more info.
16:16
Hah! -- But it's based on Persian, right?
in The Periodic Table, 44 secs ago, by bon
I'm a native english speaker and I have no idea what you are talking about :P
@DamkerngT. No, I mean this phenomenon where one weird dude uses English alphabet to write their own language.
I see. I think snailboat would call it "romanization".
Eeeek everything has to be linguisty.
But yeah, I think that's the word.
16:19
But it was language we were talking about, wasn't it? :D
Now I'm expecting a pdf assault from @snailboat.
15 mins to Azan, yay!
BTW Ramadan'll be over in like, 2 days.
16:25
Oh, that's very soon.
Yeah, and no more Kung Fu + Dry fast, so the hard time is o'er.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M which one?
oh god what did u do to ur name? :D
@Man_From_India I punished it.
@ i now to mention MAR :D
@Man_From_India Romanization.
16:35
Ok I will check it later :D
Just a bit busy with some of my new office formalities :-( too much procedures :-(
Bah.
I'm busy counting the remaining seconds to iftar.
Oooh @Dam I left a nice message in the other room, lemme copy it here.
in ELL's Cabin, 2 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M
It's interesting though, how Azan is closer to the Persian pronunciation and athan is to the Arabic. FWIW, Arabic consonants are more than Persian ones; even though Arabic doesn't have ژ (which is the su sound in visualization), گ (which is the second g in gigantic), چ (which is the ch in catch) and پ (which is the p sound, as in pineapple).
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I take it that the sounds of the two languages aren't perfectly aligned, even though a lot (maybe all) letters are shared in the two written languages.
@DamkerngT. Nah, the very four letters don't exist in Arabic.
It's usually a joke scenario here when we see an Arab can't pronounce p.
So, for example, Portugal is pronounced bur-ta-ghal there.
16:42
So it's always the unaspirated /p/ in Arabic, I guess.
Oh, /b/!
Good evening all!
Yes, even more interesting is China. It's pronounced sin.
o/ @Cu kettle!
Evening!
Hi, @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M! I wonder how would "good evening!" be in Farsi.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M That sounds ... umm ... "sin"!
16:45
@CopperKettle عصر بخیر!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I see! Thanks (0:
It's asr bekheir! if we want to look at the romanized edition.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Interesting! There is no vowel between s and r in asr.
@DamkerngT. Yes.
However, the no-vowel syllables are way more in English.
And that asr means evening.
In linguistics, a consonant cluster is a group of consonants which have no intervening vowel. In English, for example, the groups /spl/ and /ts/ are consonant clusters in the word splits. Some linguists argue that the term can only be properly applied to those consonant clusters that occur within one syllable. Others contend that the concept is more useful when it includes consonant sequences across syllable boundaries. According to the former definition, the longest consonant clusters in the word extra would be /ks/ and /tr/, whereas the latter allows /kstr/ or /kstʃr/ in some dialects. ��2�...
16:49
Cool!
Some languages mainly use pre-modification, other post-modification.
"khghchmtank̕" it "to grumble" in Armenian - a single vowel for the whole word
2
The most eminent instance of consonant cluster I can think of is Gharch in Persian, which means mushroom. Persian people are really vowel lovers.
I coined a new term "chblog" (meaning half-blog half-chat, or half-chat half-blog, if you like, i.e. this room). I wonder how easy to pronounce it is native speakers of English will think.
@DamkerngT. I typically put a schwa before pronouncing /b/ in chblog.
16:53
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M In Russian there are clusters like in bodrstvovat' (to be awake; cognate with Buddha by the way: bodrstvovat)
@CopperKettle Oh, the mentioning of Buddha allows me to think of its Sanskrit word!
@DamkerngT. Great!
In Buddhism, a bodhisattva (Sanskrit: बोधिसत्त्व bodhisattva; Pali: बोधिसत्त bodhisatta) is an enlightened being (bodhi). The sattva part of the word means the quality (tva) of truth or goodness (sat) implying equanimity. Traditionally, a bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings. According to Tibetan Buddhism, a Bodhisattva is one of the four sublime states a human can achieve in life (the others being an Arhat, Buddha, or Pratyekabuddha). Usage of the term bodhisattva...
Meatie never stops to amaze me
0
Q: the Tory manifesto saw the PM promise

meatieI have a question about the usage of the verb "see" here: Just yesterday, Chancellor George Osborne said there was no chance Britain would be involved in any plans to give Greece emergency loans. Today, Brussels seems to have ridden roughshod over those concerns and previous promises to D...

Khoda Hafez (Persian: خُدا حافِظ, Devanāgarī: ख़ुदा हाफ़िज़, Bengali: খোদা হাফেজ, Kurdish: خودا حافیز), usually shortened to Khodafez in Persian is a common parting phrase in the Persian language used in Iran, Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Tajikistan and to a lesser extent, Iraq, Kurdistan, and the South Asia. The locution is the most common parting phrase among both non-Muslims and Muslims in Iran; it is also sometimes used by non-Muslims of the South Asia, such as Hindus and Christians. == Meaning == Literally translated it is: "May God be your Guardian". Khoda, which is Middle...
Goodbye, or literally "may God be your guardian"!
17:01
Good night!
(0:
I just was browsing pages about Farsi..
I like it that the page also includes Devanagari transcription.
I don't even know what that is.
@DamkerngT. Can you read Devangari?
17:03
@CopperKettle Not very fluently.
But it has some similarity to the Thai script.
@DamkerngT. Nice!
That's why I don't know anything 'bout it.
I went all GIF'y on my newest meta answer:
3
Q: Visualization tag has reappeared - should we burninate it?

bonvisualization reappeared today. It was previously deleted after this meta discussion. Should we remove it again, or perhaps merge it with software?

What was that?
Devan-something script?
Yes, Devanagari (upper rows) and Thai (lower rows) scripts.
Squinting what's the background image in that chart?
Does the first row contain vowels, and the next two, consonants?
17:13
Yes, mostly. There are two 4 characters that may be treated as either vowels or consonants.
The first two Devanagari-Thai rows are the vowels (according to the author's classification, which used to be common over here), and the three rows at the bottom are the consonants.
@DamkerngT. Interesting. In Persian and Arabic, there are. . .Lemme count. . .1, 2, 3, 4. . .Yes, four consonants that can be treated as vowels too.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Oh! Maybe they were from or inspired by the same source?
Maybe.
Who knows what the first language ever was?
They only know what language first had an script system.
17:17
I thought of them as two at first, then realized that they are two pair of short-long vowels-consonants.
On top of that, what is a language? What distinguishes language from a simpler incomplete set of sounds used for communication? And so on.
2
Could be a good topic!
You may pin that and we talk and talk and talk about it in a philosophical mood.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M A good topic for Linguistics SE!
What is language? What is dialect? and such
17:18
What is life?
What is a kettle?
What is a molecule?
And what is Life ? an hour-glass on the run
A mist retreating from the morning sun
A busy bustling still repeated dream
Its length ? A moment’s pause, a moment’s thought
And happiness ? A bubble on the stream
That in the act of seizing shrinks to nought
What is a robot?
Oh crud.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Heh (0:
This poet did not get formal education and did not study English grammar, but he was talented.
He spent many years in a psychiatric asylum, and it was thanks to his warden that many of his poems reached us.
John Clare (13 July 1793 – 20 May 1864) was an English poet, the son of a farm labourer, who came to be known for his celebratory representations of the English countryside and his lamentation of its disruption. His poetry underwent a major re-evaluation in the late 20th century, and he is now often considered to be among the most important 19th-century poets. His biographer Jonathan Bate states that Clare was "the greatest labouring-class poet that England has ever produced. No one has ever written more powerfully of nature, of a rural childhood, and of the alienated and unstable self". ��2�...
He has a beautiful poem about autumn.
(Autumn, by John Clare)
17:28
He was crazy.
Crazy is the first requirement of poetry.
2
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Truer words were never spoken..
Somehow I agree.
Hmm.
BTW
0
Q: Two Posts Enter, One Post Leaves. - Merging identical questions (probably) intentionally asked on two sites

CatijaSo, yesterday these two questions got posted, one on English Language Learners and one on English Language and Usage: Someone who looks for problems and is not interested in solving an issue pragmatically - (ELL) ~1000 views, 10 answers Someone who looks for problems and is not interested in...

38 mins ago, by CopperKettle
0
Q: the Tory manifesto saw the PM promise

meatieI have a question about the usage of the verb "see" here: Just yesterday, Chancellor George Osborne said there was no chance Britain would be involved in any plans to give Greece emergency loans. Today, Brussels seems to have ridden roughshod over those concerns and previous promises to D...

see that someone does something/that something is done: to make sure that someone does something or that something happens; Can you see that everything’s ready in time? --Macmillan Dictionary
17:44
Be my guest!
I can't. I'm eating.
2
 
2 hours later…
19:54
TeeHee; who starred that?
Logical Conclusion: People liked to star me today/yesterday/whatever.
Anonymous
20:13
@CopperKettle never ceases to amaze is the idiom
Anonymous
COCA has 54 results for never ceases to amaze, and 0 for never stops to amaze
Anonymous
You can find occasional examples of stops, but it's unidiomatic, and I think many speakers would consider it an error
Interesting.
@snail I wonder how you pronounce this:
slhck or es ell aitch cee kay?
Anonymous
Dunno.
Anonymous
20:22
slhck isn't a possible sequence in English, so I don't know what pronunciation the former would indicate
But that doesn't have a d!
@snailboat Nah I mean in your mind, when you face it.
Anonymous
I know. I don't know what the first alternative in your question indicates.
Anonymous
I guess you could say the latter.
Anonymous
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Just a note: they're called Latin letters, or sometimes Roman
@snailboat Murmuring the consonants in their usual pronunciation "theme", sometimes with an additional shwa.
Anonymous
20:25
They don't belong to English
Anonymous
That's why we have the terms latinize and romanize
@snailboat Yeah, Roman, I could never get that right.
Anonymous
Though for some reason I find that "Latin letters" and "romanize" are the more common choices out of each pair
20:48
Oh no worried I'm showing signs of a symptom; I'm gonna die in the future. . .I have grown a tendency of reading the acronyms and abbreviations as their extended forms. . .
Anonymous
21:01
It happens. Sometimes people write "an NP" because they're pronouncing the letters, and sometimes "a NP" because they're pronouncing it as noun phrase
23:50
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Dunno, but I starred that too. :-)
Anonymous
The mystery of the stars!
Hehe! Indeed!
Good afternoon!
I've just noticed that Japanese has its own version of Devanagari as well!
Anonymous
What? Really?
Anonymous
Oops
Anonymous
23:54
@DamkerngT. I quoted you in the Japanese room chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/511/japanese-language
I found it in dek-d.com/board/view/2133110, which seems to discuss a manga titled Garin (not sure about the spelling).
Anonymous
in Japanese Language, 9 secs ago, by broccoli forest
it's not Devanagari, it's Siddham
Anonymous
I'm apparently half of a proxy conversation between you and broccoli forest :-)
Anonymous
in Japanese Language, 17 secs ago, by broccoli forest
Siddhaṃ, also known in its later evolved form as Siddhamātṛkā, is the name of a script used for writing Sanskrit during the period ca 600-1200 CE. It is descended from the Brahmi script via the Gupta script, which gave rise to the Assamese script, Bengali script, Tibetan script and also inspired Japanese kana script. There is some confusion over the spelling: Siddhāṃ and Siddhaṃ both common, though Siddhaṃ is preferred correct. The script is a refinement of the script used during the Gupta Empire. The name arose from the practice of writing the word Siddhaṃ, or Siddhaṃ astu (may there be perfection...
23:55
A-ha! Thank you, and broccoli too!
New profile pic.
It looks kinda cool in chat too.

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