Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

20:00

@V.V. Hmm... I'm not sure how the present perfect applies to Cardinal's problem.

An uneasy feeling comes over me as I watch him walk towards the revolving doors is nothing special in storytelling using the narrative present.

V.V.

"Completion" of the action expressed by the infinitive isn't connected with tense

Damkerng T.

Another important point is (drum roll!) thinking of the past tenses in a story written in the narrative past as events happened in the past is incorrect! (gasp!)

V.V.

Dam, I just wanted to say that present perfect shows a completed action.

Damkerng T.

@V.V. Not always, but yes, it's usually so.

Also note that "the present perfect" and "the perfect aspect" are not the same thing.

V.V.

Don't mix completed actions and past actions.

Cardinal

20:07

Ok

Damkerng T.

Or "completed" actions with "complete" actions. :D

Anonymous

Complete and incomplete are a matter of aspect.

Anonymous

Present and past are a matter of tense.

Cardinal

Fine, I think my problem revolves around the definition of the "complete". I think, considering an event, "complete" means something has a beginning and a finishing. — Cardinal 3 mins ago

Damkerng T.

Yay!

Cardinal

20:09

I think that an event that has been completed just a second ago, is in the past

So how could you see a process at the moment ?

Damkerng T.

@V.V. One obvious exception is the case of something that has happened in the past up to the present and may continue into the future.

Cardinal

a completed action ==> a process

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal Not really.

"We'll do this process tomorrow." How could it be completed?

V.V.

And now,just, in the future.?

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal (Actually, that's why I tried to avoid "completed" vs. "complete" and used "whole" instead.)

@V.V. ??? -- A robot is confused! :D

V.V.

20:13

Don't!

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. The problem is that "I see" is not related to "tomorrow"

V.V.

We don't have enough oil.

Cardinal

My connection sucks

Damkerng T.

In the narrative present, it could happen at any point in time. In other words, it's quite likely in fictional novels that it's detached from the reality.

V.V.

No, Cardinal, I meant "in general "

Damkerng T.

20:15

Let's say I'm writing a story ...

Cardinal

Hmm, I know I am on the wrong track, but i want to solve my problem

:(

V.V.

And that sentence is vivid. Can you remind it? In the present.

Damkerng T.

"Follow me into John's bedroom. He is not here, but the water is running. On TV, there's an ad. We can see Colonel KFC present a new menu."

In the line above, using present or presenting wouldn't make a big difference.

Cardinal

nods

And what is the difference

Damkerng T.

The difference is like you take a photo with a wide lens vs. a zoom lens.

Cardinal

20:20

@V.V. Sorry, I don't want to be rude but, I didn't understand this comment

Damkerng T.

They'll capture more or less the same things in the photos, but the photos aren't exactly the same, right?

V.V.

For example:

An uneasy feeling comes over me as I watch him walk towards the revolving doors.

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. So, again, an entire one and a partial one

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal nods

Cardinal

@V.V. I thought since "walk" implies a completed action and "see" is present, there is a problem form the logical point of veiw

Damkerng T.

20:24

@Cardinal Think of it as a story, and you'll probably feel more comfortable with it. :D

A story can start at any time. Every time a reader reads a story, the story starts. :P

Cardinal

I can accept the narrative context

Damkerng T.

So, it's never finished or completed. It's just there. :D

Cardinal

Does that present construction have any other usage? I mean a context different form the narrative one

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal A couple of common ones that are a bit unfamiliar to learners I can think of right now are "performative" and "instructions".

An example of a performative present simple is I beg your pardon.

Cardinal

I think I know a little bit about Peromatives

V.V.

20:28

Well, my idea is the following. I watch him walk=I watch how he walked.I watch him walking=I watch how he is walking.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think I watch him walk and I watch how he walks aren't quite the same.

Cardinal

My logical problem was with the syntax of the verb "see", "hear", ... You know, I mean I thought "see" a finished process at the moment is not logical

V.V.

How has an ambiguous meaning, but maybe "that"would be better

Cardinal

Performtive: I suggest you park outside the city

V.V.

How has an ambiguous meaning, but maybe "that"would be better

Say, I see him come. I see that he came.

Damkerng T.

20:34

@Cardinal I think you're probably right, but keep in mind that repeating actions are possible, too. (Something I just searched and found on the web: I see him walk down the boardwalk for weddings now and then)

Cardinal

Awo

GHL

Damkerng T.

See, it's not really about tense! :D

V.V.

I see that he has come.

Damkerng T.

@V.V. nods -- I think you need that if you want to express the subordinate clause in the perfect aspect.

Cardinal

@V.V. I see, my problem was with the process of seeing or hearing

I see a car (it is at the moment)
I see a car move from A to B ( It bothers me-- to see a process at the moment)
I see a car moving from A to B (It is nice )

V.V.

20:42

Every time I watch him walk...an uneasy feeling...No past, no completion.

It should be at least."whenever I see a car move from..."either a repeated action or a fact.

A sentence without a context can't help.

Cardinal

Fine, lets consider the original question:

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal I wonder how often or how rare they use I see X INFINITIVE when a detective is spying on someone and relaying the information to their peers. (Personally, I think it's possible, but probably not very often. I just saw X INFINITIVE is probably much more common.)

V.V.

I see a car (can be every day whenever I go to work)

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. exactly

@V.V. I preferred this:

An uneasy feeling came over me as I watched him walk towards the revolving doors

over this:

An uneasy feeling comes over me as I watch him walk towards the revolving doors

Damkerng T.

In narratives, it's another ball game.

Cardinal

20:49

Yes, I didn't take it into account; I mean the narrative context

V.V.

That was in the past.But it can be every time you...

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal But your excerpt is a narrative.

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. I just searched google

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal Have you found an example that's not in a narrative or someone recounting what happened (but in the present tense)?

Cardinal

to find a sentence containing "watch him walk"

@DamkerngT. I didn't have that outlook on the issue

Damkerng T.

20:53

Oh, yes! Another possibility, "Watch him walk." as an imperative.

V.V.

The object+infinitive doesn't influence the tense of the verb "see,watch"

Damkerng T.

Come to think of it, I think searching for watching him walk may work better for your question. @Cardinal

Cardinal

@V.V. Yes, but I thought It is not logical

V.V.

Oh, it's midnight, good night!

Damkerng T.

Good night! I think I'm gonna take a break and probably get some rest, too.

Cardinal

21:00

Thank you guys

have a nice sleep

Damkerng T.

o/

V.V.

See you tomorrow

Damkerng T.

@200_success I think the question mark in the title was a typo, perhaps? — Damkerng T. 3 mins ago

I just saw the edit before leaving my computer.

It probably will start a long debate!

Technically, a title such as "How to ...?" (note the question mark) is not that wrong, I think, but I think "How can I ...?" or "How do I ...?" looks much better.

Anyway, just for reference: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/102301/…, english.stackexchange.com/questions/56625/how-to-vs-how-do-i

sky-light

22:29

Hi,
What does (flash, flash, hundred yard dash) means?

Anonymous

23:15

@sky-light It's not really clear without context. A flash of light is very fast, though, so it probably means something like '(run) fast' here.

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