Language Overflow - 2016-08-28 (page 1 of 2)

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12:33 AM

2

Q: "Are" at the End of a Statement (a statement that is not an indirect question)

Why is it okay to use "are" at the end of a statement? I found a page here that talks about verbs at the end of indirect questions, but I am specifically looking for an answer about why "are" can be used at the end of a statement that is not an indirect question. For example: I won't do th...

word-order subordinate-clauses subj-aux-inversion

once again

indirect questions as clauses...

1:28 AM

Good morning.

Congratulation @Catija :-)

1:48 AM

1

Q: I need some cleaning

everyone Sometimes my friends say something that really confuses me. Here cleaning is used more like a noun(because has an article , "a cleaning") some people call them deverbal nouns. But I'm just confused about the meaning, because doing something sometimes has different meanings. eg: I nee...

grammar gerund infinitive-vs-gerund gerund-clauses deverbal

> I need some cleaning.

Even with the context that sentence sounds really odd.

It seems either like the subject I to be washed or that the sentence is incomplete.

I don't know how it's correct as the subsequent comments say.

Oh sorry, I overlooked it that the comment actually says I need some cleaning here is correct. Now I agree.

2:16 AM

@Catija Brava! Our species is enhanced by your heroic effort!

3

2 hours later…

4:21 AM

@Catija <3

@Catija Is he an English-speaking model?

@DEAD If you eat too many dates, you will become a round.

@Man_From_India I think around functions as an adverb here, not a preposition, in traditional grammars. Snail or Stoney or Dam might call it a locative adjunct or some such post-modern gibberish. :-)

4:38 AM

@JimReynolds yes traditionally an adverb. But I also think it's a locative adjunct.

@Man_From_India I'm curious. Do you read English books for pleasure? Aside from reading about grammar, etc.?

4:51 AM

@JimReynolds i once did regularly. Now I hardly get time to read anything like that.

Oh btw that around is not an adjunct. I think it should be a locative complement.

Anonymous

5:20 AM

@JimReynolds Adverb is a lexical class (part of speech). Adjunct is a function.

Anonymous

Since adverbs do so very many things, it doesn't make a lot of sense to say something functions as an adverb.

nods

@snailplane But is it really an adjunct? I think it's a locative complement.

> I miss having her around.

A real tough question

6

Q: Is 'after 20 years sober' correct in 'In 2006, after 20 years sober, he checked himself into rehab for alcoholism'?

The piece of news from the Huffington Post reads... In 2006, after 20 years sober, he checked himself into rehab for alcoholism. He opened up about his struggles with addiction to alcohol and cocaine in a powerful interview with The Guardian and on "Good Morning America." What sort of use ...

prepositions word-usage sentence-structure

Peter says it doesn't sound quite right :O

It's strange!

> I've just read from A Student's Introduction to English Grammar the other day that an adjective can indeed take a noun phrase as its modifier like :"five year old", "two hours long" , "a bit over powering"

I don't have that book. But does it say so?

I think @DamkerngT. has this book. Can you please verify this?

I thought => five year old is am AdjP with old as the head adjective. five year, a pre-head modifier.

five -> determinitive and year -> noun

Five year => Noun Phrase

Oh I think he meant 20 year sober as an AdjP.

Then it's correct.

> After [AdjP], [NOUN]

It makes sense.

It's similar

> After highly effective for 2 decades, it's grown old.

Hmmmm, I think being after after would have been better. Maybe someone could consider dropping being as incorrect here.

5:49 AM

Personally, I would say "no matter what the circumstances are". However, I am not sure whether that is correct or not; I'm talking spontaneously. — Cardinal 5 mins ago

@snailplane Not in the sense that home functions or does not function as an adverb? In He went home.?

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Yeah, that's a complement. It's not omissible.

In he went home, home is a preposition according to modern grammar, and to traditional grammar, an adverb. Category - adverb and preposition. But whether it belongs to adverb category or preposition category, in both cases it's a complement of the went. Complement is the function. Words belong to the verb category functions as a predicator.

Here went is a predicator.

> He went home.

This sentence has two complement: he and home and a predicator went.

He is the external complement of the predicator and home is the internal.

I'm not very sure if the following sentence is really correct. After thinking a bit I think it's wrong.

> After highly effective for 2 decades, it's grown old.

If that is wrong, how can OP's sentence be correct?

> In 2006, after 20 years sober, he checked himself into rehab for alcoholism.

@Cardinal I think you are correct. I don't think there is anything wrong with this sentence - I won't do that no matter what the circumstances are. — Man_From_India 11 secs ago

Can I call this no matter a preposition?

@snailplane

Anonymous

6:14 AM

@Man_From_India Hard to say.

Anonymous

It has the form of a noun phrase, but it's kind of prepositiony.

nods

Anonymous

Either way, it takes a subordinate clause as a complement.

@snailplane And that's not nouny at all.

6:36 AM

@Man_From_India It's five years old, not five year old.

Like in He's five years old.

How old is he? Five years old.

In chapter 6 (Adjectives and adverbs),

> The most common type of modifier is an adverb (or AdvP), as underlined in [21i], but other categories are also found: determinatives (underlined in [21ii]), PPs (as in [21iii]), and in a very limited range of cases, NPs (as in [21iv]):

> [...]

> [21iv] five years old, two hours long, a great deal smaller, a bit overpowering

Thanks it's clear. But that question is really tough.

I don't think 20 years sober is of this kind of adjective phrase.

At one point it OP's sentence sounds correct. Other times when I'm trying to give reasons, it seems odd.

I think it's similar to, but not the same as, 12 years a slave.

@DamkerngT. may be as other answers say there is an optional being there.

@DamkerngT. neither do I.

6:42 AM

Omission makes more sense to me.

But with other similar sentences it seems like being is not optional.

Say for example

> After 2 decades of highly effective, it's has now lost its popularity.

Hmm... that sounds a bit strange to me.

And so I don't think the ellipses at play there. At least not being. Mightbe some other type of ellipses that I'm not sure :(

I'm thinking your sentence is probably ungrammatical.

I also think so.

But my sentence is similar to OP's sentence.

6:49 AM

The OP's has no of, I think.

Hmmm but if we remove that of highly effective from my sentence?

(I think that is not a very good example for simantic reason)

@Man_From_India Hmm... you have to fix the verb in the main clause too.

???

Ok just lost :-)

8 mins ago, by Man_From_India

> After 2 decades of highly effective, it's has now lost its popularity.

But still not very good.

6:54 AM

Maybe years popular is easier to search for, but I'm not at my computer now.

Ok I'm off too.

Will search later.

nods

7:05 AM

We have a recent question asking about a similar sentence, too: I'm gonna have to work on what else can she call me. — Damkerng T. 3 mins ago

But no matter what are the circumstances is probably a little trickier.

PEU 278.7

> When we report the first kind of question (where who/what/which + be asks for a subject), two word orders are possible.
DIRECT: Who's the best player here?
INDIRECT: She asked me who was the best player. / She asked me who the best player was.
DIRECT: What's the matter?
INDIRECT: I asked what was the matter. / I asked what the matter was.
DIRECT: Which is my seat?
INDIRECT: She wondered which was her seat. / She wondered which her seat was.

In all these cases "X is Y" = "Y is X". But in some cases only "X is Y" possible, not "Y is X".

@Man_From_India nods

PEU also mentions this point, with an example, She asked what the time was, not usually She asked what was the time.

(The word choice "usually" is curious to me. It sounds like Swan wanted to hedge it a little.)

Right

Snail wrote one similar answer. One of her example sentence

> I don't know what she is.

Not where is she.

(her example sentence might be a little different, but similar. Can't remember exactly what she wrote there)

2

A: How to use "to be" at the end of a sentence

Let's start with a basic sentence: The bank is there. We can turn this into a wh-question by replacing there with where: The bank is where? (inappropriate in most circumstances) This kind of question is acceptable in a few limited circumstances, but most wh-questions have two additio...

7:33 AM

I have never heard a native speaker, even in informal speech, say "Let's see who is the real mean" (or anything similar) in a situation like this, unless they were, for example, putting on a faux-Russian accent and making the mistake purposefully, for effect. — Jonah Mar 21 at 4:41

An interesting comment.

Let's see who will be our first sounds fine.

Let's see who will be the one to rescue her this time also sounds fine to me.

(Let's see who the one to rescue her this time will be sounds somewhat more awkward to me somehow.)

Hi, @NVZ! Welcome to the room!

Hello! :)

@NVZ It's only a couple days away! It's exciting, isn't it?

@DamkerngT. Kind of, yeah. :)

:)

7:51 AM

@Man_From_India I am a man from India too.

@NVZ hello. Nice to meet you.

2 hours later…

9:39 AM

@Man_From_India thinks everything is a preposition. In another chat room I asked him if Dam is really a robot, or just claims so as a joke. MFI answered, He's a preposition. I asked him to imagine a future world, in which sandwiches have little handles, and what such a sandwich handle would be. His answer: prepositions.

10:08 AM

@JimReynolds are you planning to make me a robot too who only knows one word - preposition? :D

1 hour later…

11:25 AM

user image

His vocabulary is interesting, too!

user227867

12:15 PM

Hello, if this is not the main ELL chat and that chat is mostly vacant now, shouldn't we make this chat the main ELL chat or something like that?

Congratulations, @Catija!

12:38 PM

@JasperLoy Probably.

1:05 PM

1

Q: Interrogative content clause? or what?

Either due to a dent in the continuum, or as a result of my continued efforts to develop a fully functional temporal flux capacitor, yesterday a question was asked which quoted almost exactly a sentence I had spoken to my own son just a day earlier: I won't do that no matter what are the circ...

interrogative adverbial-phrase

A really good answer wanted!

> Last time I called this in, ain't nobody come out and do anything.

> Outcast S1E2

That sentence is quite interesting, grammatically.

user227867

1:26 PM

@DamkerngT. I thought I knew grammar until I came to SE. Then all hell broke loose.

:-)

Anonymous

> After 2 decades of being highly effective, it has now lost its popularity.

Anonymous

Being is definitely not optional here.

1:42 PM

@snailplane How do you feel about that sentence?

> In 2006, after 20 years sober, he checked himself into rehab for alcoholism.

@DamkerngT. I think both inversion or plain form is acceptable there. I am a little in favour of what the circumstances are.

1:56 PM

@Man_From_India To me, it's only about as good as, Whatever is the situation, blah blah blah.

Anonymous

2:11 PM

no matter what are the circumstances seems flatly ungrammatical to me.

The circumstances are ____

Anonymous

I thought the sober sentence sounded okay.

___ are the circumstances. [Unlikely but is it really ungrammatical?]

@snailplane Any good explanation?

Anonymous

Give me a few minutes to wake up first :-)

OOps sorry :-)

btw have a nice day.

2:17 PM

Morning-evening all.

Good evening @V.V.

How are you doing?

Fine, thanks. And you?

good too :-)

Struggling with English grammar?

As always :P

2:20 PM

I like it. It's always interesting to read your comments.

@V.V. Thanks :-) so is yours.

I don't speak much.

But whatever answer you write is helpful for learners.

I wouldn't say that. And I am still afraid of making mistakes.

But nothing can stop me if the question is interesting.

Anonymous

2:43 PM

Good morning :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Does anyone have opinions, then, on what we should do with the Cabin?

Anonymous

I like the idea of having two rooms, but in practice we haven't really been using the other one.

user227867

Hi. =)

user227867

@snailplane I think we should just freeze it or something like that or delete it.

user227867

@snailplane Since you like grammar books, have you seen Grammatically Correct by Anne Stilman? It is a very good usage guide treating punctuation in detail.

2:56 PM

@snailplane Why not just switch the names and see what happens? ;)

@snailplane Me too, but there's almost nothing going on in the main room lately.

@ShadowWizard LOL

3:35 PM

0

Q: Why do we use possessive for a pronoun but not an apostrophe for its noun?

It is correct to say: The table handle is rugged. In form of the given table pronoun, Its handle is rugged. But incorrect to say table's, though both its and table's are possessives. Also, we do not have say table's pronoun but say its pronoun.

pronouns nouns possessive apostrophe

I think part of the reason is The table leg is ... has fewer /z/'s than The table's leg is ..., though I wonder if how true my assertion is.

As an aside, I'm not sure why the OP thinks it's incorrect to use table's.

Maybe they stumbled upon some prescriptive rules.

user227867

3:52 PM

Yo @DamkerngT., kap kun ka, lol.

@Catija Aww

@ShadowWizard Hey Sha. Go back to your Den.

4:04 PM

@JasperLoy Yo khrap khun Jasper

4:24 PM

Hi, MAR.

@Catija Waw! I am really happy for you. Many congratulations! :-))

@JimReynolds Not so far... I think he needs a few upgrades installed first.

@V.V. Hey

@Catija What's his OS?

@DEAD It's called CUTE.

Pro edition.

4:36 PM

Of course

He looks really healthy. I'm happy for you. (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ

When he gets older, don't expose him to the internet. Especially not me.

I'm shock-sensitive.

He's doing great. The midwife and nurses are really happy with his health. He's outside with Andy right now getting some sun.

Sun is better than the internet.

That's debatable

On the internet, you get to meet people with newborn babies and feel oddly very happy.

Can you do that on the sun?

But you just said to not expose him to the internet...

That's because of his innocence

Better things in this world are dirtier.

5:00 PM

@Catija how good it would look when he will play with your hippo :-)

Good evening all

Good evening kettle

Namaste, Man ji!

5:22 PM

Hey guys i'm here again

Is there "shorline" word in English language?

@ucha did you try any English dictionary yet?

I tried but this is really absurd event so i needed to ask:)
The caption of the thesis is wrong

6:07 PM

@ucha Shoreline yes, but shorline no.

BTW @Dam would you please end the two-room confusion and change the room description to "main room for English Language Learners GHL" please?

user image

I got several electric shocks from my bicycle under this transmission line

@CowperKettle A giant metal man trying to pee?

@CowperKettle So yes

No, a photo from today's 90 km ride

Now you're just showing off

user image

@DEAD That's my second favorite activity, after memorizing poems

user image

user image

user image

6:35 PM

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 23 hours ago, by DEAD

@tchrist Shadow is here when you don't want him to.

@ShadowWizard You weren't . . . supposed to see that . . .

@DEAD haha, too late! :P

@CowperKettle nice, you're the one taking the pictures?

I loved riding bikes with friends as teenager, but as adult... well... never found the time and energy. :/

Thanks @snail

Anonymous

room topic changed to Language Overflow: This is the main chat room for English Language Learners Stack Exchange. Welcome! (no tags)

1 min ago, by DEAD

Thanks @snail

I feel unburdened

Anonymous

6:48 PM

Well, that's good :-)

in ELL's Cabin, 4 mins ago, by Stack Exchange

snailplane has frozen this room.

R.I.P Cabin. 2015-2016

@ShadowWizard We should pin that.

Anonymous

I think the Cabin really died a while ago. It's just been in a zombie state for a while, just waiting to be reaped.

Anonymous

It was a nice room at first, though :-)

I wonder if we should add other RO's.

Dam is in a meh mood regarding RO activities.

Hmm, I'm thinking either Jim or Cowp or me.

7:25 PM

@V.V. Speak of things that happen with your student?

@Dam

Some ELL texts give a rule something like Use 's with people, but [something of something] for things. John's book. The entrance of the building. A counterproductive "guideline" I think. — Jim Reynolds 2 mins ago

@JimReynolds You think?

Often, but not well.

That sounds familiar . . . hmm . . .

Why think when one can just say whatever?

7:42 PM

Unfortunately whatever is too short to be a comment.

@ShadowWizard Sorceress!

@DEAD It'a a sad world when character minimums kill humor. But whatever.

@DEAD but whateverrrrrrrr isn't.... ;)

@DEAD go ahead then!

@snailplane this reminds me of some SE sites, that just exist, without real activity, for long time now.

8:36 PM

Do you work on Saturday?

Do you work on Saturday?

Which one is correct?

Anonymous

8:57 PM

@Avicenna They both look the same to me.

Anonymous

Did you mean to type two different messages?

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