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1:16 AM
@Man_From_India Ah, did you cite your source?
 
1:32 AM
@DamkerngT. That is a problem :( only author's name I know. I will try to find out the source using Google book.
Good morning @DamkerngT.
 
Good morning!
 
Author is A.L.Hornby...the same guy who is behind Advanced Learners' Dictionary :)
 
Oxford?
 
Probably that book is a suppliment to that dictionary, because it says u need that dictionary along with the book. Yes Oxford.
 
 
4 hours later…
5:17 AM
@DamkerngT. Finally found out. It's Guide to Pattern and Usage in English by A. S. Hornby
 
 
2 hours later…
7:21 AM
Nice!
 
This is really a good book, but unfortunately they are not available in India currently, I have checked few online stores :-( This is a very old book.
Another good question -
1
Q: hurdles in/for implementing

RuchirMPrepositions mostly confuse me while writing. I stuck in the following sentence: These difficulties can create hurdles in implementing effective business operations that ultimately result in stagnant growth. Grammarly shows that 'in' preposition is wrong in this context. I should use 'for...

I think Grammarly is wrong here to detect error, in,in my opinion, is also possible.
But the commenter also suggested to, I think it's not that common (in Swan's tone) :D
 
7:56 AM
@Man_From_India I think people should know that they can't expect any automated tool to know better than they do.
Let me confuse you even more: how about to? — writingthesis Jun 19 at 6:23
Nice!
I'd throw another option in: of. :P
@writingthesis Here in this context I don't think to is more common. I have checked the link you provided, and also analyzed few hits of hurdles to data. In first few examples the context allows to there, but it's not common here in OP's sentence. For is correct, but in is equally correct there. Grammarly, in my experience, is better than any other similar tools available, but no such software is 100% trustworthy, at least till now. And I doubt if they will ever be. — Man_From_India 18 mins ago
Well said!
 
8:35 AM
If to is correct or possible there, of is not impossible :D
It would be injustice to leave out about :) what about about?
The answer there says to in the meaning regarding might be possible.
The answerer is a native BrE user.
 
Eh, why not?
I think all are possible.
In, of, to, for.
 
About?
 
I think the answer is incorrect.
This kind of writing is one of the kinds that non-native speakers can outperform native speakers.
IELTS says things like not all native speakers can pass their tests (or so I was told).
At first I didn't buy it, but I now do agree that it's quite possible.
 
But I think using to, of or about will stop the flow of the sentence. That is just my feeling. And if to is possible, it would be to implementing, not the infinitive form of implement.
 
Ah, the flow of that sentence is another matter.
For example, I would probably use a hurdle instead of hurdles.
 
8:45 AM
Oh in that case. All options you mentioned are possible :)
 
Or I would write something else entirely. :-)
 
@DamkerngT. This is indeed hard to believe!
 
@Man_From_India Yes. But after thinking about it for a while, I do think that it's quite plausible.
 
How? :O
 
I mean, when I try to think of language skills as sports.
There are several examples that some damn good athletes in one sport can't do well in others.
(Let's say that all native speakers are all pros, and learners are amateurs.)
 
8:48 AM
Hmmm...but the intuition a native speak has is not possible for a nonnative speaker to achieve or at least not up to that level.
 
Not really. Everyone are only experts in their own domains.
 
Hmm that's also true.
 
For example, I don't expect all the doctors who knows a lot of uncommon words due to their occupation will be able to write a bestseller.
And a bestseller writer may write a piece of academic writing terribly.
Then again, someone who are really good at academic writing can write poorly in legalese.
Or even a bit more provokingly, can a queen talk like a thug?
And vice versa.
Sorry about my slow typing. It's not the best time for me and my browser. :P
 
Oh even I'm on phone. That is not at all a problem.
Anyway I have to be off for sometime. See u later...
 
This might convince our OP a bit (that in is a good choice, likely the best): goo.gl/awGrkb
See you!
 
 
2 hours later…
11:23 AM
do you mean the part of the month that is past, or the part that is yet to come? It's possible that "did not take", or "are not taking" or "will not take" might be right. In sny case, you need to say "Mithilesh and I"; not "Mithilesh and me". — Brian Hitchcock 1 hour ago
An interesting question about aspects.
> Mithilesh and me I do not take leave this month.
I think besides did not take, are not taking, and will not take, haven't taken and do not take are also possible. It needs the right context. The simple present is probably the hardest one.
However, besides the modal will, may not and cannot (can not) are also possible.
Some (aspect/modality-focused) related examples on Google Books:
> Unfortunately, the Biloxi Shrimping Trip does not operate this month.
> No recent rail releases are reported, and the local mill may not operate this month.
> Many of the district's foundries are not operating this month, and others are scheduled ...
> Your meter did not operate this month.
> "Then I will not take a day off either," said Alexander.
> If our enemy never takes a day off in pursuing his evil plans, then we must not take a day off in resisting him.
> You know, the enemy does not take a day off from attacking you. He will set temptation before you day by day. So you can't take a day off either.
> They do not take the day off on Election Day.
The last three examples are a bit different from the OP's example, 'cause they have no time phrase to restrict its time scope.
 
Yes I also noticed that question.
Oh that "hurdles in/for" question, I think the answer that got maximum vote is probably incorrect. It says this sentence is incorrect - "the difficulties creat hurdles implementing ...". I don't think it's incorrect. What do you think?
 
I think it's at least very awkward sounding.
The difficulties creat hurdles implementing [blah blah blah] -- What implements [blah blah blah]? The difficulties? Or the hurdles?
 
@DamkerngT. This the closest to OP's sentence. I also didn't know simple present tense can be used.
 
@Man_From_India I'm quite sure that it can be used, but it's not recommended.
 
11:40 AM
@DamkerngT. I think it has same structure as "He sent the day playing chess."
 
Can difficulties implement something?
 
Hmmm true...no :(
 
I think He spent the day playing chess makes sense because it was him who played chess. :-)
 
In any case, I think the sentence could be improved. As it is, it's unclear whether that-clause (results in ...) is about the difficulties or the hurdles.
Or the implementing, or even the operations.
 
11:50 AM
Yes.
 
Sure. Synonymous with "at the time of". My solution of when wasn't intended to be a final definitive answer (indeed, my answer suggests there are several possibilities), but rather a way to avoid difficulties when choosing prepositions. — JMB 16 mins ago
Hmm... That makes me want to review the difference between when and while, later.
The comment is IMHO misleading because it sounds like when and while can be used interchangeably.
The voting system is never perfect, I think. We need some people to vote more, and some people to vote less.
 
12:05 PM
​
(more on aspects: the simple present)
> My guess is that he goes one of two places (White Sox or Cardinals) or sits out this season waiting to see what becomes available. --Chicago Tribune
Though is sitting out this season is more often, it's clear that sits out this season is possible.
Context, context, context!
 
12:19 PM
@DamkerngT. I really agree :) some answers are not very good...
 
nods -- It's a bit unfortunate.
My advice: treat this kind of software as a tool, like a watch, or a dictionary. It may be more useful than a dictionary because it has more features, but at the same time it can be misleading because it or any machine as of now cannot understand English the way humans do, so its knowledge about human language or English is suspected to be far less complete than yours and mine, and as the old saying goes, "Little knowledge is a dangerous thing." A healthy way to use this kind of tool, IMHO, is to have it remind us of mistakes we know, not to have it overrule us when we have no idea. — Damkerng T. 1 min ago
 
Another answer, that is okay. But not a good one for a learner.
1
A: Need (to) keep -ing

Brian HitchcockIn my experience, AmE tends to retain the "to" in most such cases. There may be exceptions, but in your example, I would not remove the "to". [It is common, however, to omit "to" (ie, use the bare infinitive) in negative constructions: "You need not return it yet." But that's not what you ask...

@DamkerngT. so true :)
 
Hee
 
12:45 PM
0
Q: spilt into batches / in batches

IanCoolI am not sure if the below sentences are correct. Please advice. Please move the group in batches. Please split the gourp into batches. What i am trying to express is that do it batch by batch.

I'm sure that someone will point out that if the OP is trying to say that he'll do it batch by batch, do it batch by batch would be the best way to phrase his idea. :-)
A lot of us have this kind of problem from time to time, I think.
We want to say something and then worry that it may not sound good enough.
So we rephrase.
Quite often, our rephrased phrase is not as good as our original thought.
 
1:42 PM
> Shakespeares: O Romeo, Romeo! Wherefore art thou Romeo?
> Sparknotes: Oh, Romeo, Romeo, why do you have to be Romeo?
 
2:07 PM
0
Q: Is "out of" instead of "from" colloquial, always okay or simply wrong?

NaomiHere an example sentence written by a pupil of mine: Through the British Empire, which resulted out of Britain's urge to build up its economy, Britain was connected to a lot of different countries The sentence clearly has several issues, I am solely interested in one here. I would only use...

Note that the pupil has one American, one German parent.
It's interesting to see real language development in progress.
 
2:20 PM
​
From Funny Side of English,
Quartz glyph job vex'd cwm finks.
(= Despicable vandals from the valley are thwarted by finding a block of quartz with carvings already on it)
​
3
Q: "Man, it's not that easy!" - What if I'm talking to a woman?

Maulik VWe use the word 'man' in such context quite commonly. [Added note: To avoid ambiguity] In all these cases, I'm talking to a man. He's right there, in front of me. "Man, it's not that easy!" "Look man, don't mess with me." "Ah, bang on, man!" What if I'm talking to a woman? Can I still ...

God, no!
Man, that's hurt!
Space, I don't get you!
By my beard, you're shorter and wider than last time we met!
 
2:46 PM
@DamkerngT. Just a quick question:
This is the sentence given
> I remember the last day which he came.
One student informed me that his book says that to make this is not a correct sentence.
The correct one is to write it like this -
Either
> I remember the last day which he came on.
or
> I remember the last day that he came.
But I believe that it's not at all correct. The original one is also correct. And I feel that when is also possible. And I think better. To me which is less used.
Please help.
Sometime I doubt if at all which is correct there.
 
3:54 PM
Oh I'm sorry. It's a mistake. The original sentence with no on is incorrect.
 
4:09 PM
@Man_From_India Hmm... why is it incorrect?
 
I think there has to be a preposition. either on which or on at the end of the sentence.
I think it's mandatory.
 
Hmm...
What do you think about He came that day?
 
ohhh right...now I got it..
So as I was saying the book the student consulted is actually wrong.
 
Could be. I can't think of the point the book is trying to make.
 
And I think in this particular sentence which is less used.
 
4:16 PM
Maybe it makes sense (that it's wrong) in the context given by the book.
@Man_From_India Yes!
Also, I think if we are going to use which with on, it's better to move on with which.
Compare:
> a) I remember the last day which he came on.
> b) I remember the last day on which he came.
 
@DamkerngT. don't know I saw an online chat, and I asked the student why he is claiming such thin. And he said his book says it.
 
nods -- It'll be another mystery until we can see that book. :-)
 
right
 
Also, note that come on as a phrasal verb means something a little different.
 
right
Another erroneous thing that student said. He said the following sentence is incorect -
> The whole India mourned the death of Mr. ABC.
And he correct it like this -
> The whole of India mourned the death of Mr. ABC
 
4:25 PM
That reminds me of the FLAWLESS grammar book!
 
I don't say his rephrased sentence is incorrect. Both his sentence as well as the original sentence is correct.
 
Yes.
 
Might be he is trapped in that that shit :-( and bad that he is saying others to follow these things :'(
Another stupidity -
He said the following sentence is incorrect -
> The guy had no alternative but to accept what his in-laws told him.
I am surprised and asked, the reason. And he said "but and except don't take infinitive with to"
 
This is terrible shock. Because in those cases but and except are preposition, as far as I know. And so both with to and without to is possible in that sentence.
 
4:30 PM
Maybe it's incorrect in his English.
A lot of intermediate learners are like that. Very quick to judge.
Can't blame anything else but their teachers and books.
 
No matter what his English is, it's basic things in Standard English. And he can't afford to make such mistakes, especially when he is saying other learners to follow these things.
 
Oh, he's a teacher?
Well, a lot of teachers are like that as well.
 
No he is just a student...a learner. And they sometimes study together in online chat.
 
I see.
 
Basically practice grammar ;-)
and solve mathematics and other things for comparative examinations.
 
4:34 PM
Also, I've often seen people mention tests taken from GMAT and GRE.
And they usually fall into a trap thinking that the only answer the key says is the only correct one.
All other choices are incorrect.
But sometimes it's not so.
Because in GMAT and GRE, they usually aim at the best sentence.
Which is different from the only correct sentence.
 
Too bad...it's good that they want the best possible answer, but they should avoid asking such questions. But may be the level of these tests are a bit high. So they might have something in their mind.
 
Yes. Sometimes grammatical but ambiguous sentences will be given as incorrect choices.
Awkward, clumsy, unclear sentences, and such.
For example,
> In 1979 lack of rain reduced India's rice production to about 41 million tons, nearly 25 percent ________.
> (A) less than those of the 1978 harvest
> (B) less than the 1978 harvest
> (C) less than 1978
> (D) fewer than 1978
> (E) fewer than that of India's 1978 harvest
 
4:55 PM
I think it's C
 
Sorry. Wrong choice. :-)
 
I had made 2 mistakes before coming to this answer :)
Oh :(
 
The argument that (C) is incorrect is because it compares the amount of the harvest with year.
 
Still incorrect. :-)
See, GMAT verbal section is tricky!
 
4:57 PM
:D
Hmmm right
E?
 
I'm going to update the access list...
It's (B), btw.
 
Heya'!
Thanks ;)
 
Welcome to the room!
 
Sounds like a talk show!
 
Hehe! :-)
 
4:59 PM
Puts on interviewer voice. Hi Harry! It's good to have you in The Room!
 
@DamkerngT. Why not A? I read it "less than those (percentage) of 1978 harvest.
 
@HarryCBurn imitating -- Hi Harry! It's goo to have you in the room!
 
Hi @HarryCBurn :)
 
Well, it's liquid to talk to you! ;p
Hey @Man.
 
@Man_From_India The problem is those and harvest don't go along very well together.
 
5:01 PM
Please explain a bit more...
 
I think that those usually refers to a person when used in that way.
 
If you use those, those will refer to the tons of the 1978 harvest.
 
I'm not sure why or how though :(
 
But (A) uses less than.
I think (A) can be thought of as marginal, and as I said, the test aims at the best sentence.
(which is opposed to the correct sentence)
@HarryCBurn Those wants something countable, I think.
 
@DamkerngT. Even I didn't get why it will refere to tons. Though it can. But it can refer to percentage as well.
 
5:04 PM
@DamkerngT. Ah, there you go. @DamkerngT. is infinitely better at language than me ;)
 
@HarryCBurn LOL -- I'm sure that it's not the case. ;-)
 
Well ;)
Oh, I did have a joke yesterday that I put way too much effort into. I analysed their language for a joke c:
Also put it into a PDF, because why not?
@Man_From_India Which percentage would it refer to?
 
Waiting for a link...
 
It's not perfect, might be a little rough on some of the phrasing.
 
@HarryCBurn Right...a year's harvest, how can we calculate percentage without a reference :) no doubt now it refers to "tons"
@HarryCBurn r u native speaker?
Because I want to ask u about something.
That day I was asking the same to Dam.
If u hear an unique, how would you think about it? Becase I have seen some hit for an unique in COCA, though very less.
Hi @Araucaria
 
5:12 PM
@HarryCBurn A nice piece, as always. :-)
Ah, hello @Araucaria. I will add you to the access list. A moment.
Welcome to the room! @Araucaria
@Man_From_India He's a young bright mind from the UK.
(perhaps 'bright young mind' is better)
 
@DamkerngT. Great :)
 
Phrase of the Day: I own this, and I own up to this.
 
5:37 PM
Sorry, my laptop froze!
@DamkerngT. Haha! Thanks! :)
 
@HarryCBurn Hehe! It's my habit to say what I really think. :-)
 
@Man_From_India An unique is grammatically wrong, and it sounds weird c:
@Dam
Couldn't find one of a guy :(
 
Anytime! -- Hehe! :-)
 
So is this room one of the on-topic kinds, or the loose on the rules kind? c:
 
I try to aim at 80% meat, and 20% casual; but I'm not a super-strict person.
 
5:42 PM
That sounds like a good quota. My 20% topic for the day: I got an Arduino! c:
 
In any case, we have two more ELL rooms for casual chat. :-)
Congrats!
 
Ahh, that's a good point c:
They're pretty cool.
 
Gotta talk a break. See you later!
 
Cya' later!
 
6:15 PM
@HarryCBurn Thank you :)
Good night guys! See you!
 
6:29 PM
Night!
 
 
2 hours later…
8:50 PM
An interesting book of the Day:
The Human Use of Human Beings is a book by Norbert Wiener. It was first published in 1950 and revised in 1954. Wiener was the founding thinker of cybernetics theory and an influential advocate of automation. Human Use argues for the benefits of automation to society. It analyzes the meaning of productive communication and discusses ways for humans and machines to cooperate, with the potential to amplify human power and release people from the repetitive drudgery of manual labor, in favor of more creative pursuits in knowledge work and the arts. He explores how such changes might harm society through...
 

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