The Nineteenth Byte

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02:37

Q: Can Python be shown to be Turing-complete without the letters E or e anywhere in the code?

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but I wonder if Python can be shown to be Turing-complete without the use of the letter e in the source code.

python

noodle person

03:22

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Basic Uiua Planet Notation code-golf uiua Sandbox note: I have another challenge in the works which expands on this one and includes more complicated "planet notation" expressions. Uiua is a stack-based array programming language, and with the great power of a stack comes the great responsibility...

Any feedback for this challenge?

emanresu A

i feel like at least one worked example for both planet notation and both would help a lot

noodle person

Ok, good idea.

emanresu A

maybe like ⊙⋅⋅⊙⋅◌ 1 2 3 4 5 6 or something for the former, since you also don't really mention what happens to ignored values on the stack or have any testcases supporting that

noodle person

both isn't in it

Good point.

Unrelated String

...actually yeah come to think of it, all of the examples show the stack being explicitly initialized with numbers but the actual input spec at the end only mentions taking the notation itself

emanresu A

03:33

... actually the "ignored values on the stack" thing is a little hairy since you do end up ignoring those when solving the challenge

noodle person

@UnrelatedString Yeah the numbers shown there are more for demonstration

I can clarify a bit more that the input is just the notation, the numbers in the examples are used to show the fact that the notation is moving around numbers on the stack

Unrelated String

yeah

I assumed as much, but then I think we need separate testcases that show purely the real I/O

noodle person

@emanresuA I think you're right. The challenge body is largely cut from a longer challenge I started writing which covers a lot more cases of planet notation, where that rule becomes relevant, but it's probably clearer to just not mention it for this

emanresu A

yeah

noodle person

Ok, thank you both for the input, I will take a stab at rewriting tomorrow.

Unrelated String

03:49

good luck!

2 hours later…

rydwolf

05:27

@UnrelatedString They expected (and still seem to expect) me to just vaguely be successfully upper middle class but with not much speciifc idea of what that entails

Unrelated String

lmao

rydwolf

I called them today (since I kinda ghosted them on christmas) and my dad offhandedly mentioned "whenever you're making $500k a year at google or wherever" so I'm pretty sure they have not internalized the fact that I do not in fact plan on just taking whatever job pays the most and buying a nice house and car

I've spent all of this morning sending emails to family law firms hoping they'll take me serious enough to consult with me on the legal implications of marrying for financial aid reasons lmao

wait holy shit I just realized it's 12 AM not PM

how long have I been frame shifted by 12 hours

this is why I use military time goddammit

Unrelated String

realllll

rydwolf

There's this place on Pitt's campus that's open until 4 AM and I guess I'm gonna be going there for food lol

They don't really have any good vegetarian options tho sadly

Although they probably do have a seafood option (and I consider seafood to not be meat)

Fish is a grain (salty), crab is a fruit (sweet), shrimp is a vegetable (texture)

and all of them are either a soup, a salad, or a sandwich

rydwolf

06:11

Ugh I feel the urge to work on Hunter-Gatherer KotH again

5 hours later…

lyxal

10:50

Managed to sneak quine into a game of scrabble

4 hours later…

Simd

14:25

@lyxal 😁

4 hours later…

mousetail 'he-him'

18:47

CMC A Gzip length quine: A text that when gzipped stays exactly the same length. Content may be different. Or a similar file for any other compression

Unrelated String

Is the quine the compressed data? Or does it specifically have to be the uncompressed content that compresses to the same length with a specific implementation

mousetail 'he-him'

Lets say the quine is the compressed data

Unrelated String

19:18

...for a simple par, here's 28 bytes: (hex) 1f8b0808b34e7067000364617461007374c40d00f5d11c801c000000

Decompresses to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I started thinking about trying to exploit optional headers for padding, but then I realized I can also just fish for simple collisions :p

mousetail 'he-him'

Nice!

I assume this would be easy to extend to any length >28?

Unrelated String

19:53

...probably

Okay, looking closer at the spec (I didn't even write that one manually--I just compressed repetitions of A until the lengths converged), it seems like it's not so much the case that there are optional headers as that there's a single optional "extra field" which has its length stored as a 16-bit int...

...except the spec also lets one file contain an arbitrary concatenation of "members"

and it seems like just adding trailing zeroes for padding also works as far as gunzip cares

Regardless! it is interesting to think about arbitrary-length length-quines that would actually use hand-crafted DEFLATE data instead :P

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