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00:44
@ATaco mfw documentation.docx
We all did things 8 years ago that we're not proud of
at least the built-in set looks actually good
better than my basically-every-first-attempt-at-a-stacklang
I miss Dennis, he was always keen to host my strange language experiments on TIO
why doesn't 1 100 1 F{ A p } print the alphabet 100 times? Try it online!
01:01
Honestly, great question
at least when I do cringe, it actually works :p
(e|AZɧ^(

6++|,)
,)
01:56
This works! :D
 
2 hours later…
 
3 hours later…
06:06
@emanresuA for 59, I'd write it like this: ⊃⍪¨⍆"⍘n"⍪⍨ᑈ{('0'+10⊤⍵)↾⊃⟨""⟩⍪¨⍆"Fizz"‿"Buzz"⌿⍨0=3‿5|⍵}¨⍳100
⊃⍪¨⍆"⍘n "⍪⍨ᑈ{('0'+10⊤⍵)↾⍬⍪∘⊃⍆"Fizz"‿"Buzz"⌿⍨0=3‿5|⍵}¨⍳100 for 56
(extra space there after the newline because I messed up writing the highlighter, forgot to remove it)
06:40
for an extra byte save, you can replace the newline escape with a literal newline; you can't do that in the editor directly but you can paste code with a newline and it works
06:58
0
Q: The shortcut hint

l4m2Given a string and a char, Add an underline before any instance of the char, case-insensitive; In case the char never appear in the string, append the char at end surrounded by (). You can assume ASCII input, though the screenshot isn't. Shortest code in each language wins. Test cases Search, S =>...

07:36
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

l4m2Given two Elementary functions f and g(in expression) such that f(0)=g(0)=0, output an Elementary function(ditto) h(x)=f(x), x<0; g(x), otherwise. Your output should handle situation when either f(x) or g(x) is undefined but h(x)` is because it choose the other function. Test cases f(x)=-x, g(x)=x =

08:07
Is there any reason some answers have the language "Python 3.8 (pre-release)"? What features does this version of python have that other versions lack?
@SquareFinder It's was the latest version when TIO was last updated
yeah it's jsut that people are using TIO's answer generator, and it puts the version in the language name because of the python2 vs python3 difference
You should always put the language version in the header. Python has plenty of breaking features since 3.0
counterpoint: bash
08:27
I don't understand the counterpoint.
Some langs don't change much so specifying the version is less important
@RubenVerg Cool! If you want I could do a PR making shift-enter insert a newline
also does the SBCS just mean 1 char = 1 byte
> you should _always_

in bash, always specifying the version is very much counterproductive
Maybe my assertion was too strong
What's specifically counterproductive about specifying bash version number?
i mean, the language hasn't changed in at least 5 years
by specifying it you're just wasting brain cycles
The coreutils change often though right?
The main point is a person in the future should be able to test a solution, even after you are no longer active on the site and unable to update your solution
08:39
that's fair enough i guess
the coreutils don't really change that often, they add functionality but they rarely break backwards-compat
because linux
Many things might not reasonably break any sane programs but break golfed programs.
have you seen the state of bash golf?
genuinely i don't even think we're using out of scope features, at worst depreciated ones
I don't know specifically about bash, I'm speaking generally. Might not be an issue for bash
08:59
@Themoonisacheese as a zsh golfer I can confirm we are using lots of deprecated features
As a programmer I can confirm that those deprecated zsh features will never be removed
Shell scripts are the mother of all "if it works it works; don't blink"
the only way a linux distro ever gets to entirely remove features is by pushing a different system on the user base (e.g.: systemd)
09:24
@emanresuA yeah
Alright
@emanresuA would be great, though the input bar doesn't handle newlines correctly I think
it doesn't expand
I hopefully know how to deal with that
(jank with fake textboxes)
please open the PR into the psrt13 branch
09:26
oh also not sure how compiling TS works if you don't have a GHC WASM toolchain installed
kinda need build instructions don't i
I can probably just make it temporarily headless but yeah that'd be nice
why is the repo 110MB
every old released version WASM binary is there
Ah
this is probably not good
09:41
that's definitely not good
compiles fine for me, or at least it did two days ago
can't check for a couple days
I'm doing some really janky stuff to try and get it to work without a backend except I'm probably not going to be able to due to how the syntax highlighting needs changing
so uh time to install ghc
compiles correctly on termux
are you using old typescript?
It's not your issue it's just me trying to avoid ghc
(and git clone repeatedly failing due to internet issues)
don't really see why you need ghc, just copy ghc wasm ffi and tinyapl-js.wasm from docs/interpreters/latest
Ah okay
09:54
as long as you don't change the Haskell it's fine
10:08
the approach for mine is pretty much like yours, except I replicate instead of taking and more optimized stuff in general
so feel free to update your post
though credits are appreciated(:
Yeah ofc, will do in a bit
10:50
I'm going to try FB in tinyapl too
I got it to 45 in J before so I'll see how well a port does.
11:39
0
Q: Write a piece of Quine code that can be excuted by both C and Python

NoNormalCreeperWrite a piece of code that is compatible with both C and Python compilers/interpreters, which can output its own source code. Quine is quite easy, but how about this double language version? Hint: To make your code can be executed by both language compilers/interpreters, here's an example: #ifdef...

12:15
I have 41 for FB in TinyAPL so far, working on golfing it
0
Q: Write a C program `A` outputting a Python program `B`, which will output the code of the very first C program `A`

NoNormalCreeperWrite a C program A, whose output is a python program B. And run B will output the source code of the very first C program A. The two pieces of code mustn't be the same. (It's not a "PolyQuine" but similar to it.)

13:14
So apparently I'm the odd one out in this household for thinking life would be easier if it was a little warmer than 65°F in here
att
att
is 65 liveable
Debatable
It's like comfortably cool for an outside temperature but trying to get up in the morning when it's that cold inside is a STRUGGLE
I've been "awake" for nearly 2 hours and still barely feel awake
att
att
68 "room temperature" is already cold to me
@Themoonisacheese I think the 3.8 prerelease was put on separately because of walrus, and probably would have been rolled back into default 3 after 3.8's full release
@att SAME
I freeze if it's below 70
And 70's still hit or miss
With two layers of warm tops and my only pair of thick sweatpants on, I'm finally starting to feel mostly comfortable so long as I don't move too much, which sucks because I need to move if I'm going to eat the leftovers I just microwaved
Maybe this would be easier if I started the day with warm food faster but it's so hard to walk all the way to the kitchen and then open the fridge if I'm not already not chilly
att
att
i feel that so much
13:27
...maybe tea's the answer? Get out of bed, start the kettle, get back in bed, pour tea, get back in bed, drink steeped tea
🫂
att
att
although tbf i do like taking my time getting out of bed even when it's not cold
real
My body likes it and my brain does not
Sometimes my brain agrees actually
like it was pretty nice this Monday
...in part because I did manage to stay out of bed the first time long enough to look at the thermostat and realize the heat was literally off, then after napping for like 2 more hours I hoped it would be warmer when I got back up :P
att
att
my brain likes it until i realize im going to be late
That's how I found out that no, it's not an accident/miscommunication/my sister doing things the other 3 of us disagree with
Because even during the warm months she'd actually just lower the temperature without asking anyone, always at night, so it would be like 67 when I woke up and I'd wonder why I'm freezing until I walked down to the thermostat and realize oh yeah that's why
which is funny because NOBODY has a harder time getting up than she does
att
att
but now i have 8ams so i really don't get any time (:
i think some people like sleeping cold
13:35
and yet she goes out of her way to make sure it's cold in the mornings
🫂
att
att
but idgi
Yeah that's how she explains it
I think sleeping cold would be comfy if I could time the heat to kick in like 3 hours before I plan to get up, but the extent to which sleeping cold is comfy is orders of magnitude smaller than the extent to which waking up cold sucks
@att For me, lately mornings have been THE time I get to be productive, before I bike to campus for afternoon classes and then come back around dinner time
att
att
perfect for some productive sleeping then
And it's also just satisfying in an I-feel-in-control way to actually wake up at 7:30
TRUE
att
att
random tangent but apparently livable is the preferred american spelling
13:41
I didn't even notice that you didn't spell it that way LMAO
att
att
I'm a fake american ig
att
att
livable feels wrong
I need cold to sleep, usually I set the thermostat to like 15 degrees at night (celcius)
...
thats 59 farenheight
thats near freezing
13:48
@UnrelatedString Wait I converted it, that's 18 celsius. That's normal indoor temperature in winter? You think that's cold?
@mousetail yes
You should get your brown fat checked
normal indoor temperature is like 70
@mousetail I have been losing a lot of weight lately :P
That's not a huge difference at least
13:51
It's a HUGE difference
@mousetail yeah WHAT
How do you wake up
like
EVER
my appartment is very poorly insulated
Waking up takes some difficulty but it's worth it for falling asleep faster
if the winter is very cold i'm lucky to hit 18C
If I can configure my themostat with a timer I'll configure it to automatically heat to 18 in the morning. But my current appartment doesnt' have that option
13:53
to answer your question, i wake up in the morning feeling like not spending another 300 euros a month on heat
If you stay in the cold for a while, you'll build up more brown fat which will generate heat and make you feel warmer
@mousetail Does it save more than half an hour on getting-to-sleep time
It's a matter of training
13:54
@UnrelatedString For me, yes
att
att
that sounds like a "back in my day we didn't have heaters"
In the summer it takes me like 2-3 hours to fall asleep. In the winter I don't have that problem
back in [current year] i don't have a heater tbh
@mousetail And I assume it doesn't burn off super fast when you're in the heat?
That could explain a lot
13:55
It takes a few weeks to adjust
My mom and stepdad both grew up further north, and my sister is just weird
That's why you'll see people walking around in t-shirts in spring when it's 15 degrees outside and thick sweaters in fall when it's 25
att
att
i think i do that reversed
14:01
Hello!
@att thank you for your great solution
@Simd what temperature is your thermostat set to?
@mousetail 16C in the day
21C for a few hours in the evening
Yours?
18 during the day, 15 at night
Are the gas prices bad in the UK?
Oh yeah, it's also 16 at night
@mousetail yes
I have a coding question ...
att
att
@Simd mathematica did the heavy lifting :p but happy to
14:05
I have a 10 by 10 matrix which has integers mod 3 in it. There are two allowed operations. You can add two rows mod 3 or you can add 1 (mod 3,) to one of the numbers. How can you find the minimum number of operations to make the matrix all zeros?
@att 😁
CMQ ^^^
My gut says you just add all rows that have any overlap then zero everything left one by one
Adding two complementary rows will zero just one row right?
Ooh, yeah, if that's the case then it could be slightly more involved
@mousetail yes
Or even way more involved
14:09
@UnrelatedString what you mean by overlap?
@Simd Both have non-zero entries in at least one shared column
2+1=0 mod 3
@UnrelatedString you get 0 by adding 2 and 1 together
Exactly :P
I suspect the problem is NP-complete
^
there's a LOT of choice if addition only changes one row
14:12
@mousetail that would be very interesting if true! I mean it could be np hard. To be np complete you need to make it a decision problem, eg can it be done in less than x operations?
If it was a game where you get points for solving it in fewer operations, what would you do?
If I have finite time I'd just add 1 to values at random and if two rows where complementary by chance then I'd add the bigger one to the smaller one. Perhaps you could look one or two moves ahead but the search space explodes very rapidly
att
att
as a human player i'd probably go some variation of a greedy strategy
Hmm
@att interesting
So search for the best immediate operation ?
Defining the best intermediate state is hard
What would deepmind do?
att
att
14:16
right, just maximizing zeros
thinking more it's probably not great
@mousetail yes I mean if you get rid of some numbers by adding two rows that is one thing
@att I like to imagine what deepmind would do :)
@Simd in this game do i lose points for any operation or just the write operations i can take?
Ok that is probably pretty efficient
I feel like part of my strategy might be, like, evaluating the immediate net cost of any given row addition and somehow shooting to do individual increments that make that more profitable
@Themoonisacheese you lose one point for each operation you do
14:17
ie can i spend arbitrary time devising a strategy without losing points?
ah
If you can get zeros in the same place in different rows you can safely add those rows together later
@Themoonisacheese yes
which would still be greedy because it misses the possibility of that resulting row being useful for other additions
@mousetail Oooooh, true
14:18
@mousetail yes
@UnrelatedString right. You might be able to add one to a value and use that row to add to a lot of other rows
att
att
maybe try to make a rank 1 matrix first
If it's full rank (mod 3) to start with you can't reduce the row by just adding rows
You could to try make it low rank by adding to individual numbers somehow
att
att
is determinant a meaningful measure for a matrix over integers mod 3
It's really just a multiset of 10 vectors, their order isn't important
Or a multiset since you can have equal rows
14:24
@att it might be but considering the actions you can take i don't think it matters
@att the rank is meaningful in the sense that it tells you how many all zero rows you can make by just doing row additions
I was going to say matrix rules don't matter but knowing math something not being a matrix does not always mean the solution isn't some theorem about matrixes
att
att
in the sense that the determinant measures how a linear transformation scales volume
i dont think my math is good enough here
I don't even know what math is needed!
The determinant can be 0, 1 or 2
@mousetail see also: how the fuck did euler get in here again
14:35
Slippery character
5
att
att
i mean i expect there's probably work on matrices over finite fields that could be at least somewhat relevant
@UnrelatedString She just left for the week but left a lamp on in her room, and I think it's an LED bulb but the lamp itself has one of those pulsing dimmer switches that's built for incandescent bulbs because there's this almost imperceptibly fast flickering that makes me feel like I'm in a horror movie whenever I look down the hallways
0
A: 1, 2, Fizz, 4, Buzz

noodle personTinyAPL 0.9.0, 73 bytes (41 chars) {⎕←⊃(⌈⍆a)⊖⍵⍮"FizzBuzz"⌿⍨4⌿a←0=3‿5|⍵}◡⍳100 TinyAPL REPL

:)
15:03
can it be formulated as an integer linear program somehow?
I want an excuse to try an ILP solver
15:28
CMQ Can this matrix problem be formulated as an ILP? Given an n by n binary matrix, I want to find the smallest number of bits that need to be flipped to reduce the rank of the matrix over the field of integers mod 2. I don't think there is a fast algorithm so I was hoping it could be formated as an ILP problem. But I am not sure if the rank restriction allows that.
15:45
@noodleperson print each line to avoid joining with newlines and converting to string is smart
left a comment, each instead of on cells
@RubenVerg I didn't even think of trying to do that, seemed like way too much work lol
I was shown a solution where it did that so didn't even consider another way when trying to optimize it
I'll change it to each, just added an explanation
@mousetail I have been informed that another possible issue is that I'm not physically active enough to start generating enough body heat to feel warm with my warm clothing
Which would suck because if I'm too cold then I don't have the will to move, but when I'm mostly awake enough it should be mostly doable to do some light weights or something
Also I should have left 5 minutes ago but it's so hard to want to 1. take my current sweaters off then 2. bike in my other sweater which will still feel way too cold until I get hot enough to start sweating
...maybe I should just put my rain shell on as a windbreaker
yeahh
@Simd Rather euly
@UnrelatedString I hate lights that flicker at 60 hz
15:57
The worst
@UnrelatedString When I'm cold I want to jump and run around a bit to warm up
@rydwolf exactly! euleaginous
I feel like that for maybe 10 minutes if I get cold after waking up not cold
When I'm cold I shut down all of my bodily processes to survive long periods of time in harsh conditions (clarification: I am a tardigrade)
Today’s mobile chat bug: the top nav bar is invisible (but still interactive)
15:59
Unfortunately, humans can't survive freezing
@Bbrk24 Happens to me all the time on FF mobile
You must resist the urge to shut down your bodily functions
Don't tell me what to do
@noodleperson I tried to write a fizzbuzz program in template qdeql once. The hard part wasn’t detecting what to print, it was converting to decimal to print it — 3 and 5 have integer multiplicative inverses mod 256, but 10 doesn’t
Feeling like you need to lie down is actually the stage right before multiple organ failure when people freeze to death
16:02
I thought the last stage was feeling paradoxically hot and stripping
I think that happens after some organs have shut down? Now I'm not sure
me neither
When I went mountain climbing, they told me if I was ever caught outside without shelter, never lie down. Just keep walking
They didn't really go into many details about why except something about organs being important
@mousetail Idk when it happens relative to other stages, but I believe the reason for paradoxical undressing is because blood gets pulled in toward your core rather than going to your extremities
Makes sense
Sometimes people lose limbs to frostbite, probably because the body decides preserving the core is worth losing some arms or feet
16:11
Reasons you may lose a limb in TNB:
1. Frostbite
2. Lyxal
7
 
3 hours later…
18:41
If I posed as a challenge finding the smallest number of bits to flip to reduce the rank of a matrix, how could it be code-challenge?
That doesn't seem like it would fit this site
@noodleperson Nice! there's a beta SBCS so you can just count this as 41 bytes
@mousetail how come?
I would provide concrete matrices to run on if that helps
@emanresuA Yeah, Maddie told me, thanks
I'll edit it later today
19:25
> Democracy dies in /dev/null
Nice lol
In other news, the FizzBuzz challenge has 199 upvotes, one of you lucky people could be 200
Or not, I have no stake in the matter :p
20:12
Talking about Fizz Buzz, I have a CMC
CMC Output a sequence of 4 letter words. The first must be "Fizz", the second "Buzz". May not repeat until at least 100 words
20:27
Haskell, 38 bytes: "Fizz":"Buzz":fmap(replicate 4)[' '..]
@DannyuNDos Would it be possible to create a ATO link or tell me how the sequence would continue?
AFAIK, this continues until reaching U+10FFFF.
What would the third term be?
I'm not sure that counts as 4 letters
20:30
Yeah, 'cause you didn't define a "word" rigorously.
If you insist a word must be alphabetic, what about this?:
Haskell, 44 bytes: "Fizz":"Buzz":map(replicate 4)['가'..'힣']
Lets define a word as 4 characters in unicode.org/reports/tr31
I think yours is valid
Hangul FTW!
My new edit to my TinyAPL FizzBuzz makes it the shortest solution to the problem in any APL, as far as I can tell, which is pretty cool
the shortest on CGCC, at least. APL's not on code.golf
(code.golf will probably add APL soon, there is a PR, just needs to get through the baclklog)
20:36
And TIL Haskell has decimal escape sequences, rather than octal.
As Arnauld once said, Octal is only good for two things
chmod and Heisenbugs?
@noodleperson And it doesn't even have a format builtin yet
... never mind, I was using maximal as well but I didn't realise it could do that
Yeah it's a bit surprising lol
considering sorting a string and a number in a box array always puts the string first, even if the string is empty
That's what I first tried, since it's how my J solution works
Also I couldn't find the print function so I spent like twelve bytes joining the whole thing by newlines :p
20:45
lol
I knew it because I read the first couple pages of a Dyalog APL tutorial once
21:45
@mousetail This might be really fun with a given dictionary
Given in the challenge I mean, not as input
 
2 hours later…
23:42
> Large technology companies are investing billions of dollars in nuclear energy as an emissions-free source of electricity for artificial intelligence and other businesses.
Inb4 bill gates nuclear arsenal
Facebook vs. Twitter nuclear armageddon
one of the few non primitive things that's actually documented

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