The Nineteenth Byte

emanresu A

00:56

Just printed out the entire itertools docs because for some reason the programming contest I’m doing allows printed material but not official language docs

Unrelated String

That happens LMAO

emanresu A

These are the “programming contests problems with awful I/O” I was talking about

lyxal

@emanresuA relatable

Unrelated String

I forget what if anything the rules were about bringing stuff for ICPC, but the only competition I'd been in before that allowed printed materials as well

And one year I won second place without a team, and got a slightly misprinted medal

It was fun

emanresu A

Nice :P

I’m in a two-person team but we have to share a computer so that’s gonna be fun

lyxal

01:03

Relatable

Unrelated String

Relatable

Sharing a computer is how it always goes but it can be preeeeeetty stressful

Hang in there

Last time I competed with a team, there was a lot of arguing about who can write what faster and when

And it can get pretty hard to work solutions out on paper even with practice

Didn't help that we never actually practiced as a team...

lyxal

First time I did a competition in a team, we got second place mostly because 2 days prior to the competition I happened to accidentally work through a problem pretty much replicated exactly in the competition problem pack

And it happened to be worth like 25 points or so

Redz

real

lyxal

It was something to do with naughts and crosses

Unrelated String

Huge

@lyxal I forget if this ever happened with me but basically all of the problems for the competitions I did in high school were taken straight off Kattis

And I did do a lot of practicing on Kattis :P

Redz

01:13

lazy problem setting is hilarious

Seggan

It's funny how random YouTubers can appear in the comment sections of seemingly completely unrelated videos. Like I just found Sebastian Lauge commenting on a Captain Disillusion video, and a while back I found logdotzip in a Useful Charts video

And ironically Sebastian Lauge was commenting about a Matt Parker jump scare :P

mousetail

08:30

CMC Given a Fibonacci number, output the next one

att

09:16

what's the expected output for 1?

Dannyu NDos

Not well-defined for 1.

mousetail

Assume the input >1

Rydwolf Programs

Now at the gate for the flight to college

It's been a crazy 24 hours lol

Protip don't try to move a whole 2-bed apartment and pack four bags in like a day

att

have fun

Dannyu NDos

@mousetail Haskell, 49 bytes: f n=g 2 3 where g i j=if i==n then j else g j$i+j

Hangs on 1 or a non-Fibonacci number.

46 bytes: f n=2!3 where i!j=if i==n then j else j!(i+j)

The Empty String Photographer

09:40

Does anyone else increase their cursor size?

att

ngn/k 13: {+/[~x<;1;1]}

emanresu A

09:59

Doesn't just round(x*phi) work?

Looks like it?

att

10:21

yeah

but that's boring

emanresu A

Fair :p

Redz

10:53

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer I have a mac and I like furiously waving the mouse to make it bigger does that count

emanresu A

Hmm

lyxal

11:12

@Redz fr fr

(i recall doing that a long time ago)

Ginger

13:29

@RydwolfPrograms did you fix the DNS :p

Unrelated String

15:05

@lyxal 🤝

The single thing I miss LMAO

Wonder if there's something I can install to make Windows do that

(There probably is for Linux :P)

@UnrelatedString ...Reminds me, does anyone know what APL Kattis runs? Because I keep getting weird runtime errors there that I don't get anywhere else, and I don't know if it's because of something I'm not accounting for in how the input works or if it's because of actual differences in language behavior

mousetail

@UnrelatedString KDE does that by default

Unrelated String

Big

Simd

15:40

CMQ How many different weakly connected DAGs are there on 4 labelled nodes?

Rydwolf Programs

18:37

damn CMU's got good wifi, 200 Mbps both directions

@Ginger Didn't end up having enough time to get everything packed, let alone set the servers up

I'll have to walk my parents through the process some day soon

Ginger

ah

...right

wait, weren't you moving my VM to the cloud?

Rydwolf Programs

I just need my dad to put the servers in the rack and get someone to hook them all up to ethernet and power

@Ginger Most likely, once I can get the server online for me to pull files from

Ginger

ah

so it'll be a while

Rydwolf Programs

I couldn't even bring my chonky HDD in the suitcase I took, so I'm going to have to have my parents hook it up to the server and figure it out remotely

My desktop should arrive by Wednesday, at least

Rydwolf Programs

18:53

autocorrect hates me

It's like it's getting more and more pushy, it's started changing things to be wildly different

When they're not even spelled wrong, just unusual word choices

Ginger

lmk once it's back up I guess

The Empty String Photographer

@RydwolfPrograms I think that’s happening to me as well?

Rydwolf Programs

Okay I have no idea where anyone is

This orientation thing is a mess

Unrelated String

Orientations tend to be disorienting

3

Rydwolf Programs

All they gave me is a T-shirt and I'm literally the only person currently in my dorm other than someone I can hear making noise upstairs (this place has cool creaky floorboards)

Like there's no structure

Unrelated String

19:01

Oh yikes

Rydwolf Programs

It feels far more isolating than just jumping into the first day of class

'cause unless you bring your family or know someone going there, you're just wandering alone

Unrelated String

Mine was online because COVID and it was highly structured... it just wasn't much other than structured

Was funny having one guy calling in from Kazakhstan though

Rydwolf Programs

I think the actual stuff starts tomorrow but I'm not really sure where everyone else is

Unrelated String

Mmmm

caird coinheringaahin g

@RydwolfPrograms this feels like a super early start to uni tbh

user

19:03

@RydwolfPrograms That's the best part of college, the lack of people telling you exactly what to do

Unrelated String

It can be all over the place

My FDOC is this Monday

user

Also one of the worst parts, if you're like me and need precise instructions for everything

Unrelated String

REAL

caird coinheringaahin g

My uni doesn't even start for 3 weeks, and we're a super early start for the UK

user

I assume yours also ends later than Unrelated and Rydwolf's unis

Unrelated String

19:05

For some reason I assumed every uni in the UK started at the same time, and it was in like October

^

caird coinheringaahin g

@UnrelatedString They mostly do, and it tends to be mid-late September

For whatever reason, my uni went super early this year

Unrelated String

Wacky

user

My university has no holidays during the school year, apart from Thanksgiving and spring break. But hey, in return, we get a longer winter break. Because winter's the time of year when you can get out and have fun, right?

caird coinheringaahin g

@user @UnrelatedString @RydwolfPrograms when does your summer vacation start in 2025? Mine is May 26th

WQhich is, tbh, about 2 weeks earlier than last year

user

Mine's around then too (late May). My uni starts a week from Monday

Unrelated String

19:07

Classes end December 4 and finals end on the 13th this Fall

att

@Simd mathematica says 446

Seggan

@cairdcoinheringaahing my former college started alr

Unrelated String

Spring semester is from January 8 to April 29/May 9

@cairdcoinheringaahing So you're later than me by like 2ish weeks

Or more depending on individual exam schedules :P

caird coinheringaahin g

Tbf, we have about 2 weeks of exam period ahead of that

Seggan

Last night I woke up multiple times during a fever and for some reason actually believing I was the tsar of russia

Unrelated String

19:09

No idea when people conventionally move out of dorms though since I've never had one and nobody really talks about that stuff

user

Wait, last day of classes for the spring semester is May 13 for me, and it starts January 27. Fall semester is August 26 to December 9

Unrelated String

@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh so you're more like a whole month ahead

Reckoning it like that then my summer break starts on April 29

@user Yeah I've heard mine's pretty early for an American school

caird coinheringaahin g

D:

Speaking of uni, uni gave me an excuse to spend ~£550 on board games a couple days ago :P

Unrelated String

AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Nice

user

@Seggan What if it's like that short story from that something Dick guy where you're actually the tsar and this current life is the dream?

Unrelated String

19:11

Was it for a class somehow or is it a club you're starting/resuscitating

mousetail

@cairdcoinheringaahing What was the excuse?

caird coinheringaahin g

Yeah, I'm the president of the uni's board game and ttrpg society :P

user

Nice

Unrelated String

Sweet

caird coinheringaahin g

And we're updating the inventory :P

Unrelated String

19:13

I just remembered mine has one a week or two ago and joined their Discord so hopefully I'll end up actually attending some meetings some time

Huge overlap with the linguistics club :P

mousetail

There is a linguistics club? What do they even do?

user

Talk

caird coinheringaahin g

Talk

user

Ninja'd :P

mousetail

TBF my uni had a "Europe club", no idea what they did

user

19:14

Were you in Europe?

mousetail

Yes

Unrelated String

@mousetail Nominally it would be stuff like chat about research but for the most part it's just themed games :P

user

There's your answer, they were a club in Europe

mousetail

There was also a Japan club, that one makes more sense

att

be European I suppose

Rydwolf Programs

19:15

@user mmmmm yeah until there's literally nobody in your dorm, no buildings or dining areas open, long lines leading to peopld telling you that it's not actually a line, etc.

user

@mousetail No, that makes less sense. If you were in Europe, it can't have been a club in Japan

Unrelated String

Some of them are like actual linguistics themed board games, like IPA Scrabble or this thing with X-bar theory style syntax trees, but most of it is more broadly about languages

user

@RydwolfPrograms Wait how far away is the first day of classes if it's that empty?

Unrelated String

Language guessing games on the internet, Duolingo speedruns, multilingual telephone

att

@user maybe they were establishing an enclave in Europe

mousetail

19:16

Then it does make sense if it has a lot of overlap with board games

Rydwolf Programs

A week. It's not empty as in nobody's here yet though, it's empty as in everyone's stuff is here but not them

I'm assuming it's people wandering with their families

user

Oh that's kinda early

Rydwolf Programs

First-year orientation stuff

Unrelated String

The end of every semester we do a scavenger hunt where all of the clues are in different languages and some of them are FIENDISHLY difficult

user

My freshman year, they didn't let most move in until like 2 days before first day of classes

Unrelated String

19:17

Like IIRC last time one of them was like

user

Nice

mousetail

@UnrelatedString Oh that sounds fun

Unrelated String

Romanized Cantonese

Rydwolf Programs

@user Did y'all have any sort of orentiation over the summer tho?

mousetail

Are there a lot of conlang enjoyers also?

Unrelated String

19:17

And another one was a Mayan dialect

user

@RydwolfPrograms Yes, one for my major, one for another program I was in. None for the university as a whole, afaik

Unrelated String

And I think the semester before that we had some minority language from Myanmar that a single club member happened to be doing active research on because they knew a single native speaker who was somehow also a student here

@mousetail Yeah it's great

@mousetail There isn't a lot of conlang talk but most of us have made at least one anyways

user

I think they force some or most kids to take a 1-credit class that serves as a semester-long intro to the university

Rydwolf Programs

@user Well, they can't do any in-person orientations over the summer for us since most people at CMU are from California, so they have to do it all in the week before school (most of it is college/program-specific)

user

Ah ok. Weird that no one else is around for the orientation then

mousetail

19:19

@user We had a class like that but it was 0 credits

user

lol

Unrelated String

@RydwolfPrograms ...Are Californians an actual majority, or just the largest single group of people from any given state

One of those would be a lot more surprising than the other

Rydwolf Programs

Plurality, but a pretty big one I think

caird coinheringaahin g

Our "orientation" here is basically just a week of drinking and clubbing called Freshers :P

Unrelated String

Mmmmm

Rydwolf Programs

19:20

Also the demographics at this school are so skewed

Go compare the pie charts between CMU and MIT

mousetail

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yep same here

user

Meanwhile here they repeatedly tell us to avoid drinking and stuff ("1 in 4 students don't drink!")

mousetail

They gave up on that here

user

The dorms have posters all over saying to pregame with protein and stuff

Rydwolf Programs

Actually it's not as different as it was a few years ago

user

19:21

@RydwolfPrograms Too lazy, give us a tl;dr :P

caird coinheringaahin g

@user They let us hand out alcohol at the Welcome Fair, the 2-day fair they run for all the societies to table :P

mousetail

They tried to do an alcohol free intro week a few years back. There where riots. And still a whole lot of alchohol

user

Living the dream

Unrelated String

@user The orientation involved something where we had to check a couple boxes to say we read the alcohol policy but IIRC it just boiled down to "don't drink on campus but if you or a friend do anyways then we're not going to be too mad if it puts you in danger and you ask for help"

@mousetail Whah

user

Oh hey yeah there's a policy for that here too

Rydwolf Programs

19:22

From what I remember is was skewed male, heavily skewed white/asian, and very heavily skewed toward people from technopole-type cities like wherever silicon valley is, Austin, etc.

Unrelated String

@user ...Isn't pre-workout basically always protein and caffeine anyways

user

You won't get any consequences if you report a friend having an emergency

Unrelated String

Or is pregame something fundamentally different

I guess athletes probably need to focus more on in the moment performance than long term gains :P

user

So, pro tip: if the cops are about to bust your party, jab a needle into your best bud and call 911 immediately

caird coinheringaahin g

@UnrelatedString pregame is what to do before drinking/going out

user

19:24

And protein slows down the effect of the alcohol you drink while watching the game or something

caird coinheringaahin g

Like, pregaming for clubbing generally involves getting drunk at home/party/pub

Unrelated String

Ohhhhhhhhhhh

Wild

I always assumed pubs were just part of the destination for clubbing

Rydwolf Programs

I think I'm gonna go buy a bicycle rn lol

user

It's more efficient to get wasted first

att

nah it's alcohol for the league of legends grind

Unrelated String

19:26

TRUE

I unironically do play LoL better when I'm a little buzzed

Rydwolf Programs

I get free public transit with my ID card so I might as well just take a bus to the nearest bike shop and buy a bicycle with part of one of my scholarships

user

@RydwolfPrograms You could get an e-scooter

Rydwolf Programs

Where's the fun in that?

user

Can't speak for you but my campus is all slopes so my legs are always dead at the end of the day

Rydwolf Programs

Anything in between a fully maniual bicycle and 300cc is lame and for weaklings, duh

Unrelated String

19:27

Real

user

Exactly, which is why you need an e-scooter :P

Rydwolf Programs

My bike at home didn't have a working derailleur/gear shifter or whatever so it was permanently on the hardest gear

Unrelated String

I kinda have a grudge against escooters for some reason

mousetail

Lot of respect for those who go around campus on rollerskates

Unrelated String

@RydwolfPrograms Yikes

user

19:28

@RydwolfPrograms Like 3 (front one) or 7 (back one)?

att

@UnrelatedString wanna carry me (:

user

@mousetail They look so cool. I've only seen one on my campus though

caird coinheringaahin g

@mousetail I know a few people whop've gotten around campuses before on a unicycle

Unrelated String

I have been defaulting more towards higher gears the more I get used to biking but slopes are still a struggle

Rydwolf Programs

@user I don't know what the front one was, the back one (it was 6-gear) was on the smallest

caird coinheringaahin g

19:29

Including seeing people go down an incredibly steep hill in my ccity on one

Unrelated String

And the house I just moved to is at the bottom of a HUGE incline compared to the rest of town

Rydwolf Programs

I think there's electric unicycles

Unrelated String

Haven't tried biking out from it yet since I only moved my bike here two days ago but

That's going to be something

user

@UnrelatedString Pro tip: Go down the slope, not up it

Unrelated String

Probably going to be walking it up the slope for a while

@user I have done that :P

Rydwolf Programs

19:30

👏Time👏symmetry

caird coinheringaahin g

Personally, I love walking :P

user

Go down the slope both ways

mousetail

Yea walking is great

caird coinheringaahin g

Walk uphill both ways to and from uni

mousetail

I love all non-motorized forms of transport

user

19:30

Personally, I always forget I have to be wherever until 5 minutes before so I need a motorbike

@mousetail Cool, if you obtain a motorized form of transport, could you send it over to me?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ok boomer

Rydwolf Programs

@user I happen to have a Honda CB300R motorcycle on sale for a great price

caird coinheringaahin g

You joke, but I might actually be one of the oldest here :P

Unrelated String

I like walking but it's also a pain to schedule around sometimes

Rydwolf Programs

The alignment's a bit off but who wants to be straight anyway

caird coinheringaahin g

@RydwolfPrograms Why are you selling it?

user

19:31

Oh absolutely, aside from Adám

Unrelated String

And I don't like walking as much in the summer :P

Where the summer is more like half of the year

Rydwolf Programs

In college so no way to get it up here, and I don't trust myself to not almost die again

user

@RydwolfPrograms Me, remember?

@RydwolfPrograms I was joking about looking for a motorbike lol. Why not ride it around college and look badass?

caird coinheringaahin g

@user Going into my final year of uni, with most of my friends either joined at the same time or later than me, it's been sobering to realize that I'm almost always one of the oldest people in the room most of the time now

att

oh no I'm old

user

19:33

caird aren't you like in your twenties?

Rydwolf Programs

@user I know you were joking, not like I'd have a way of getting it to you :p

user

You've gotta be at most a decade older than them

Rydwolf Programs

Everyone gather around old man caird

user

@RydwolfPrograms Ride it all the way over here, then take my childhood bicycle back to CMU :P

caird coinheringaahin g

Add in the fact that I took a gap year, and might take a year out before doing a PhD after graduating, and I could be at this uni, in the clubs I'm still in, being 5+ years older than other people :/

@user Yeah, I'm 22

user

19:34

That's like nothing

caird coinheringaahin g

But when the people around me are all 18-20, that's old

Unrelated String

@cairdcoinheringaahing 🫂

user

I mean, 5 years has got to be a cosmic blip in the life of someone as old as you :P

Rydwolf Programs

That's like 4% of a lifespan yeah

caird coinheringaahin g

5 years passes in the blink of an eye for me

Unrelated String

19:34

...It's always uncomfortable when I realize that's the case with my IRL friends from middle/high school

caird coinheringaahin g

I take some hard drugs, and then decades pass before my eyes

Unrelated String

But less in a sobering way and more in a "oh yeah sometimes I forget I literally didn't have any friends in my grade for the entire two years of high school before I wasn't willing to go back"

att

@cairdcoinheringaahing tbf none of the years since 2020 are real

Unrelated String

Factual

user

If it helps, I'm 20 and I would not blink at a 22-year-old classmate

Unrelated String

19:36

@cairdcoinheringaahing What month

I'm 22 with a birthday in April

~~Mentally like 13 but that's besides the point~~

user

@UnrelatedString Hey, same! Except I'm not 22 and my birthday isn't that month

Unrelated String

Whoa

caird coinheringaahin g

@user There is also the factor of "authority". I'm now arguably the most accomplished mathematician in my group of friends, as they're all at least one, sometimes 2, behind me in studies. I'm the president of a large society and actually organizing things, and then I'm also older than most of my friends or the members. I feel more and more like an adult :P

Unrelated String

We're basically the same

att

no way

caird coinheringaahin g

19:37

@UnrelatedString Damn, you're older than me by a couple months

Unrelated String

That's such an insane coincidence

mousetail

I'm wondering why everyone here is so young? It seems like this would be a hobby that requires some amount of programing experience so would attract older people?

Unrelated String

@cairdcoinheringaahing 😭

user

Hey, are you also composed of organic matter?

@cairdcoinheringaahing To feel better, abuse that power

caird coinheringaahin g

Take back everything I said about me being old, everyone laugh at old woman Unrelated :P

Unrelated String

19:38

@mousetail Counterpoint: older people can actually get jobs programming, but younger people need other excuses

👵

caird coinheringaahin g

@user I abuse that power here, I'm fine :P

user

@mousetail I don't think it requires much programming experience. And old people might be tired of programming after doing it at their jobs. Young people are fine with doing it for recreation

caird coinheringaahin g

You should see all the comments I nuke daily

mousetail

The entire reason I got into the hobby is to pass time at work, when I was studying I had plenty of other things to do

Unrelated String

Nice

att

19:39

you younglings scared all the older folks off

user

We should do a survey of reasons people joined this site

mousetail

I'm 25 btw

user

Laugh at old person mousetail

Unrelated String

I just kind of ADHDed myself into it while trying to use SO for a pseudo research project I was trying to do in HS

Though I'd been interested in esolangs for a while already

user

lol

Seggan

19:40

@user thing is it wasn't a dream

Unrelated String

Mostly to kill time in this "computer skills" class in middle school that was 90% just about how to use Word

@user Oooooh yes

caird coinheringaahin g

@user Friend recommended it to me, then Jelly got its hooks into me

user

@UnrelatedString Oh my god I had a class like that too. It was called Software App Design or something and it was just how to use Word and Excel, and then the rest of the time we'd do our homework or, when the teacher occasionally felt like teaching, she'd force us to do NitroType

att

I think I joined ppcg because a discord server I was in was doing golf

Unrelated String

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

user

19:41

Wait can we do a meta question to record these responses?

I feel like this is valuable info, not sure if it's appropriate for meta though

Unrelated String

I think we occasionally also did some kind of typing speed thing but I forget what it was called

@user I don't see why not

We already have that "the users" post

att

it's similar to the name/avatar thing

Ginger

I have no idea why I joined :3c

mousetail

@user I like that idea, though it could be a bit similar to the PFP and username question

Unrelated String

^^^

mousetail

19:42

Though few people answered with why they started golfing

user

39

Q: Who are you? Why are you here? And more introspection

Whereas: we are unsure about where exactly we fit into the SE mission others sometimes don't take us seriously the site has been languishing in beta with minimal communication from SE for years we have, after receiving explicit advice to expand our horizons, consistently failed to do so I hav...

caird coinheringaahin g

@user If you do, I think it'd be better to frame it as "Why did you join, and why did you stay, so that we can try to attract/retain new users"

user

👍

caird coinheringaahin g

@user I wouldn't close a new post as a dupe of this, as while this does have a "who are you"/"why are you here" aspect, it's best summed up by this question:

> Basically, should PPCG have a more well-defined purpose as a Stack Exchange site? What should it be (other than "solving tasks / spec writing / etc. is inherently fun")?

user

Ah

Unrelated String

19:44

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ooooooh, smart

Rydwolf Programs

Oh my god the temperature just dropped 10 degrees this place is awesome

Unrelated String

:D

Rydwolf Programs

I missed the bus by like 10 seconds though so I have to wait 20m for another lol

Seggan

@user saw the hyperfactorial challenge on HNQ, answered it in Kotlin, found Jelly, then went into Vyxal

Unrelated String

Oooh, nice

I think I vaguely remember the first challenge I saw, but I didn't actually answer it on my current account so it's a little hard to find

att

19:48

I know I was looking at the site at least 2 years before I actually joined

emanresu A

@user I have a bunch of 20-year-old classmates who haven't noticed I'm 16 (or at least they assume I'm a young-looking 18-year-old or smth)

Unrelated String

Amazing

user

@att Wow, make sure to blink and use artificial teardrops when you do that

caird coinheringaahin g

I can't remember if the first post I posted is still around, cause I had a different account I used a couple times at the start

user

@emanresuA Congrats (?)

Seggan

19:49

@emanresuA wait you are 16? 💀

att

@user no one said anything about blinking (:

emanresu A

And yeah I found the site through HNQ too, was not in a good mental state when I joined - I was using PHP

user

Wow, tell us your story

From PHP user to high achiever

emanresu A

I'm very grateful to PHP for teaching me how not to program

Unrelated String

Just remember, that doesn't mean you ever have to forgive it

emanresu A

19:50

lol

Unrelated String

1

A: Covering a Skyline with brush strokes

Clojure, 50 bytes #((reduce(fn[[s n]i][(+(max(- i n)0)s)i])[0 0]%)0) Try it online! (Why doesn't this print anything?) #( ; begin anonymous function (reduce (fn [[s n] i] ; internal anonymous reducing function, destructures accumulator argument into a sum and the previous item ...

emanresu A

I remember I had multiaccount issues when I joined the site as well, which finally got resolved when I got suspended on genai.se

caird coinheringaahin g

Hah, it is still around :P

29

Q: Draw an ASCIIrisk

There are an abundance of questions involving drawing shapes using asterisks - so I thought, with so many asterisks out there, we should draw one, using the ASCII table. Challenge Your task is to write a program or function which takes no input, and outputs this exact text: ! ...

code-golf string ascii-art kolmogorov-complexity

Unrelated String

:D

Rydwolf Programs

@user I'm getting tired of the PHP user stigma. It's not a moral failing to use PHP. You can't control it. It's a medical condition, not a crime. I'm glad people are starting to recognize that.

8

att

19:52

my last job had some php

user

Oh no! Did you complain to your HR department?

Rydwolf Programs

We've all had that moment where we'd allow an XSS or SQLi just to get the next fix

att

well, I can say I'm not at that position anymore

user

See, this is why we need strong regulations at the federal level, to stop companies from exploiting their employees like this

mousetail

My last job was entirely PHP. Might be Stockholm syndrome but it wasn't terrible. Better than Java at least

Unrelated String

20:00

It seems less cumbersome in some respects to do lightweight stuff in than Java, but at scale Java at least has the redeeming grace of a lot of its cruft being to support well-organized code

Which isn't to say it's actually good at that

But it at least tries :P

mousetail

PHP has all that same cruft too, with the additional option of writing cursed procedural code

att

honestly I'd rather hate on js than php

Unrelated String

Mmmmm

PHP is, in and of itself, without the slightest doubt massively worse than JS

But JS is a bigger problem for humanity

So that's fair

mousetail

Both languages have a problem with "bad parts" of the language but are not that bad if you know to use only the good parts

emanresu A

PHP has good parts?

4

mousetail

20:04

Generators that can yield key-value pairs for one

Useful in unit tests but not much else

Oh and a type system that's actually partially checked at runtime

emanresu A

Why is that a good thing

user

Better than a type system that isn't checked at all at runtime?

mousetail

In TS, a typing mistake can cause bugs very far away as none of the intermediate steps actually check if the type is correct. It can be very hard to find where the wrong type was introduced. In PHP you know more closely where the error must come from because it will crash immediately

It doesn't support generics though it it's kinda mid

att

20:26

@emanresuA yeah it's not js

Simd

20:49

@att that can't be right

att

why not?

assuming this is about the DAGs if you want to double check it's brute force tio.run/##VYyxCsIwEEA/…

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@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh yeah come to think of it, with how many graduate or mixed-level classes I end up taking, this isn't necessarily true for me :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing ...but I do also forget that there are still actual 18-year-olds around me

Life is confusing

DLosc

21:37

@cairdcoinheringaahing or other mod, could you please unfreeze Do Stuff Online?

hyper-neutrino

@DLosc done :3

DLosc

Thanks!

lyxal

23:56

@user HNQ from grinding SO answers, discovered ><>, made a few esolangs, took a little break (and almost didn't come back), found someone had made a spin-off of one of my esolangs (and claimed it was an improved version), wanted to prove that person wrong, came back, ended up collabing with that same person on many esoalngs :p

Code golf over the last 4 years could have been a very different place if it wasn't for the inherent pettiness that comes with being a code golfer :p

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