The Nineteenth Byte

lyxαl

00:03

@noodleman Vyxal, 53 bytes: øḋ\1$ƛ3 8*5 3*+9+C;(n){W:÷^L1>£^¥|+}?øḋ\./h0£(&›)&›¥Ẏ

Bubbler

00:50

Is this (A004290) a dupe of this (A079339)? A004290(n) = A079339(n) * n.

Unrelated String

for a second i thought you meant the sequences themselves lmao

Bubbler

lol

user

@lyxαl Tsk tsk, your score is 1 less than last time

Try to get to at least 55

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: When is My Holiday?, Complex logarithm, Periodicity of the family of sequences s(n) such that n(x) is the first number co-prime with the previous n elements code-golf, Golf the fast growing hierarchy

thejonymyster

01:07

@lyxαl ...this has to be a meme right

caird coinheringaahin g

@thejonymyster Nope, Vyxal is one of the most verbose languages out there

thejonymyster

lmao

caird coinheringaahin g

@Bubbler Based on the Python answers, I've closed it as a dupe

lyxαl

01:36

@cairdcoinheringaahing *Vyxal 3 l

Simd

06:40

In python, what is the golfiest way to determine if a string is a month of the year?

Bubbler

in which format?

Simd

Literally the name of a month. E.g, January

CMC given a string s, is it the name of one of the months of the year?

Bubbler

there's not much you can do other than lambda s:s in'January February March April May June July August September October November December'.split()

Simd

Oh that’s sad

Bubbler

unless you can limit what kind of strings can be input

Simd

06:49

@Bubbler what do you mean?

Bubbler

or somehow you make the datetime lib to do it for you

Simd

@Bubbler that would be good….or calendar?

calendar.month_name maybe?

Bubbler

@Simd something like this, where I/O is defined for some limited set of strings and you can do whatever for anything else

Simd

That is cool

Bubbler

@Simd nice find

Simd

06:54

I think s in calendar.month_name might be the shortest

Bubbler

should add [1:] because it has '' as the 0th element

The Thonnu

@Bubbler funny - there's no empty string in day_name

lyxαl

apparently I got cancelled on esolangs.org a year ago?!?

Bubbler

days are usually indexed via 0..6 or %7, but months are 1..12 I guess

lyxαl

07:09

Truly goofy

mousetail

Unacceptable, I'm ashamed to have ever shared a chatroom with someone who doesn't use the amongus meme properly

4

Simd

08:07

@Bubbler thx

The Empty String Photographer

08:23

@lyxαl read it again :p

lyxαl

08:53

Careful, you might get cancelled too :p

mousetail

09:15

What should I name my regex variant? I'm thinking something like regey or regezy

The Thonnu

How would regey be pronounced?

mousetail

Like Reggae

thejonymyster

something short obviously this is code golf

gex (golfed expressions

mousetail

09:31

It's not going to be especially golfy, though I guess regex is kinda golfy already. I do like gex though, though it would suprise me if there isn't something else with that name yet

The Empty String Photographer

@thejonymyster regex is already short

@mousetail dang ya ninja'd me

@lyxαl I don't know of that many people who know I'm a user. Anyways, I can just edit their cancellation to un-cancel myself.

Neil

10:18

@mousetail call it regek, and then you can pluralise it

New Posts

11:14

0

Q: Normalize a Gaussian GCD

We already have a challenge for computing the GCD of two Gaussian integers, but that challenge explicitly allows to choose any of the four possible values. Your task now is to bring the Gaussian integer computed by the GCD in the following normal form: The result differs from the original number...

noodle man

11:50

have you people seen this meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/426107/…

lyxαl

I wasn't aware it was launched

noodle man

yeah i just went to the SO Labs page and saw it

seems to be the only "experiment" they've made that isn't AI hype

it seems like a waste of energy though. like, chat exists

lyxαl

chat doesn't provide a Q&A format though

discussions seem to be places where you can ask more off-topic questions (within reason presumably)

mousetail

Might work for us since questions are ironically don't really fit on main

Might work better than tips

lyxαl

Pretty sure it's for collectives

which means it's most likely going to stay SO specific

The Empty String Photographer

11:57

Why don't other sites have collectives?

mousetail

Yea collectives don't work for SO at all, but they could work for other sites

The Empty String Photographer

@mousetail Like collectives for different golfing languages on CGCC?

or esolangs?

Actually I think collectives might be useful on CGCC

mousetail

Yea, might work a lot better than the 100 frozen chatrooms nobody ever reads

and are very hard to search through

noodle man

@lyxαl they should add threads

is there a feature request for that?

lyxαl

the whole collectives system would need a major rework, because currently SO controls which collectives exist. There's a team dedicated to approving/rejecting collectives, so that team would be stretched extra thin.

The Empty String Photographer

12:00

Maybe I should write a post on CGCC meta for collectives?

noodle man

not the right place to ask

i guess you could ask on Mother Meta about bringing collectives to other sites, in general

The Empty String Photographer

oh wait maybe a new privelige at 100k rep: accept or reject collective proposals

@noodleman I'm suspended there

lyxαl

prepare for it to get status-declined :p

in Vyxal, 15 mins ago, by lyxαl

@Ginger I'd be interesting in hearing (well, reading) those first :p

mousetail

Might as well ask, worst you can get is a "No"

The Empty String Photographer

@mousetail and lots of downvotes

mousetail

12:03

I don't think you'll get more than ~25 downvotes

noodle man

meta score doesn't change anything

except Mother Meta but placereporter is suspended there

mousetail

Impressive, it's quite hard to get suspended on mother meta apperently

The Thonnu

...unless you say something SE doesn't like

mousetail

90% of mother meta is absolutely hating on everything SE does but they don't get suspended

The Empty String Photographer

@TheThonnu yh I was accidentally talking to a community manager using all caps

The Thonnu

12:08

idk, some people with opinions on the new genai site got suspended

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer oops :p

mousetail

By staff or by moderators?

lyxαl

@TheThonnu I basically called the genai site utterly useless when it was announced

The Thonnu

Staff probs

lyxαl

I now moderate for the company I called cringe :p No suspension at all :p

Ginger

I sure hope this is a bug

mousetail

12:09

@TheThonnu Staff very rarely suspends people on meta

Mother meta has it's own moderator team for a reason

The Empty String Photographer

@TheThonnu well I sent a suspension appeal. Only 1 or 2 days ago they said they were looking at it, and will reply soon.

@Ginger It’s a tribute to how badly SE (company) contrasts with what decisions they will make.

@TheThonnu I can still talk on the meta site on chat.stackexchange.com but not chat.meta.stackexchange.com

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer I think if you will change your profile parent site to MSE, you wouldn't be able to talk here too.

The Empty String Photographer

Lol poker.se exists:

Dannyu NDos

19

Q: Goldbach's conjecture

Write a program that prompts the user for an even integer greater than 2. Given Goldbach’s conjecture that every even integer greater than 2 can be expressed as the sum of two primes, print out two prime numbers which, when added together, provide the requested even number. Edit: the program o...

code-golf primes

The Empty String Photographer

Dannyu NDos

12:20

I would consider it risky to assume an unproven conjecture to be true.

lyxαl

I think the point is that a case that would disprove a conjecture wouldn't be valid input anyway

Dannyu NDos

Even in that case, the proposer should state that explicitly. And "Congratulations! You've dis-proven a conjecture lasted for millennia."

The Empty String Photographer

‮nohtyP ekil I

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

javascript!

Dannyu NDos

Haskell for the win, for breaking others' mind!

New Posts

12:34

0

Q: Spell date in Japanese

Objective Given a date, spell it out in Romanized Japanese. I/O Format The input format is flexible. The output format is <month spelling> <day spelling>; note the space. You can freely mix cases in output. You may output trailing newline. Mapping Months Month Spelling January Ichigatsu ...

code-golf date natural-language

Dannyu NDos

If that's not too cumbersome.

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

:P

The Empty String Photographer

Raw content: [U+202E]nohtyP ekil I

@TheThonnu Mod message: meta.stackexchange.com/users/message/3459#3459

lyxαl

you realise we can't see that :p

The Thonnu

^

Don't think anyone here has 10k on MM

Screenshot?

Dannyu NDos

12:42

What's MM?

mousetail

Mother Meta

Or Meta Meta

Dannyu NDos

I don't, then

lyxαl

MeMes

The Thonnu

Wait maybe Adám does

Because of that ban ChatGPT network wide post

Dannyu NDos

M&M's

lyxαl

12:44

@TheThonnu even then that's a link to a private mod message

mousetail

Probably most of the rep was prevented by the rep cap

The Thonnu

Oh yeah

I thought it was a deleted question

@mousetail he has 11.3k

mousetail

Nice

The trick to getting rep on meta meta is just to be the first to post something everyone is thinking already

The Thonnu

Yeah

Ginger

or to make a userscript that fixes an undesirable site UI change :p

The Empty String Photographer

12:47

@mousetail this is my second time suspended there.

mousetail

Or you thank a random staff member

Ginger

13:08

I'll also note that currently the chatiquette does not disallow bots

we should probably change that, or at least clarify what is and isn't allowed

The Thonnu

just move to trash

lyxαl

→ 85 messages moved to don't be using bots please

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

this discussion is not offtopic?

lyxαl

← 2 messages moved from don't be using bots please

Ginger

right

as I understand it, the rules are that bot and sock accounts are not allowed in this room, regardless of intent, unless explicitly permitted by a mod or an RO?

4

lyxαl

13:11

I thought it was just bot accounts

Ginger

(and as for "read-only" bots, those don't need to actually join to scrape data)

lyxαl

sock accounts seem to be okay

Ginger

hmm

one could argue that the utility bot account was being used as a sock just then

lyxαl

e.g. that time emanresua used the allxy account for a while, all the times rydwolf's sock accounts have posted, times I have done a little trolling with my alt

I think the rule was that all messages need to be human sent

having said that, my declaration of kicking the utility bot account also falls under the don't cause disruption rule

Ginger

all messages from the account?

or all messages sent in the room?

lyxαl

13:13

in this room I think

Ginger

ok

so Utility Bot's kick was soley because it was causing disruption

mousetail

In general I think people should refrain from trolling in this room

Ginger

although said disruption was only caused by other users (including myself) causing an uproar over its presence

The Empty String Photographer

Ok I've opened a PR to disallow bots.

github.com/cgcc-se/cgcc-se.github.io/pull/2

lyxαl

@Ginger basically. Y'all were showing displeasure that it was here, and that's disruption enough for me

"Being disruptive means doing anything that prevents, impedes, or discourages other users from using The Nineteenth Byte for its intended purpose."

the account being here was preventing y'all from using TNB for its intended purposes

Ginger

13:14

had we not said anything, though, no disruption would have occured

we aren't entirely in the right

mousetail

The bot would have continued to say random stuff like it does every time

Ginger

now, had PlaceReporter done something disruptive with the account, then we'd be justified

and based off of its past history, that seems likely to have happened

lyxαl

"discourages other users"

that part was fulfilled in my opinion

Ginger

so I think we were justified in our displeasure due to the account (and its owner) being disruptive in the past

The Empty String Photographer

@Ginger I'm leaning towards 70% to 80% in the right for you to have done that.

Ginger

13:16

I conclude that the kick was justified for at least two reasons

mousetail

It's disruptive because it keeps happening, despite being asked to stop. Something can be ok the first few times but get annoying when repeated enough

Ginger

I also conclude that the chatiquette should be amended to include chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/64289360#64289360, minus the sock part

lyxαl

The only thing explicit I can find is this:

Jul 28, 2021 at 4:28, by caird coinheringaahing

Ok, bots are explicitly banned here unless given permission. Please don't abuse RO privileges in other rooms to get around that

The Empty String Photographer

3 mins ago, by The Empty String Photographer

Ok I've opened a PR to disallow bots.

Ginger

I am aware

there is also the issue of @TheEmptyStringPhotographer's repeated disruption of this room (with and without bots), but that can be discussed later

The Empty String Photographer

13:20

license for cgcc-se.github.io : Do What The ____ You Want To Public License

lyxαl

(cc @cairdcoinheringaahing and @RydwolfPrograms who would probably know more about this)

The Empty String Photographer

github.com/cgcc-se/cgcc-se.github.io/blob/main/…

Dannyu NDos

*cough*

lyxαl

Found it!

17

A: Are bots allowed in The Nineteenth Byte?

Chat bots (that post messages) have no place in TNB. Since TNB is for discussion of code-golf and PPCG related topics, having bots in the room would be distracting and obnoxious, and would overtake more important conversations. The reason that this is not officially mentioned in the chatiquette i...

Ginger

ah

that should probably be linked to in the chatiquette

lyxαl

13:27

(cc @hyper-neutrino)

~~just superpinged a mod, feeling good!~~

Ginger

so would you call that a hyper ping?

ayyyyyyyyyy

mousetail

So if we want to add a rule the meta post should be edited first, only then should a pull request be made to github

Ginger

:+1:

augh, now you've got me doing that too!

lyxαl

nyeh heh heh!

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

I'm feeling like I'm in world of rush when I'm on normal traffic sites like CGCC or SO

like a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery fast rush

Ginger

13:31

what?

caird coinheringaahin g

@lyxαl What do I know more about?

lyxαl

bot accounts in tnb

and whether people sending messages from bot accounts manually is a yes or n

caird coinheringaahin g

It's a no

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

Choice behind mods

caird coinheringaahin g

There's no way to verify that they are indeed sending them manually, or if the bot is sending them

The Empty String Photographer

13:35

@cairdcoinheringaahing It’s a why not?

@cairdcoinheringaahing It’s a oh dear I got ninja’d 😅

mousetail

Far fetched idea: You can configure github so emails send to a certain address end up as comments under an issue. You can also follow a post on SE that makes it send emails when a post changes (I think). You can trigger a github action based on a comment I think.. So you could potentially create a rube goldenberg system that keeps the github site updated automatically without needing an external server

lyxαl

@cairdcoinheringaahing so are normal socks allowed?

Assuming no bot affiliation at all ofc

caird coinheringaahin g

Yes, socks are allowed, but will be subject to the same rules as regular users, and the same rules as socks: aka, don't do anything you couldn't do with one account

The Empty String Photographer

Oh are socks not allowed?

56 secs ago, by caird coinheringaahin g

Yes, socks are allowed, but will be subject to the same rules as regular users, and the same rules as socks: aka, don't do anything you couldn't do with one account

mousetail

Could you wear a regular account? No! So no posting socks

lyxαl

13:38

@cairdcoinheringaahing In summary, accounts used as bot accounts elsewhere is not allowed, accounts used solely as alts are? (checking to see if my understanding and summary is correct)

caird coinheringaahin g

More or less

lyxαl

:+1:

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer that ain't fun

caird coinheringaahin g

The ban against bots is to prevent unnecessary noise. This is because, by default, bots cause noise much more often than they don't. There are rooms for bots - this is not one of them. Even Smokey isn't allowed in here. Socks have valid uses, both in chat as much as on main, and so we don't ban them. However, socks operate under a very strict set of rules, and violating these rules will not only get the sock nuked, but likely your main account suspended.

14

lyxαl

Follow up question: when should bot accounts be kicked and or suspended (if applicable)? If they're just in the room list or if they are actively posting? And how many warnings?

caird coinheringaahin g

13:43

Actively posting, and personally, I'm operating off one warning. "Bots aren't allowed here without explicit permission" is pretty clear

We're perfectly fine with non-disruptive bots, such as watcher bots. But, it's on the bot owner to demonstrate that their bot isn't disruptive, typically via meta

lyxαl

Ah so I probably should have done something a little sooner then

The Empty String Photographer

@UtilityBot I explicitly give you permission to be here.

Does this count as being given explicit permission?

Ginger

no?

a mod or RO has to give permission

lyxαl

No.

What ginger said

Otherwise the rule would be pointless :p

The Empty String Photographer

@Ginger but I’m an RO of a few rooms, so I can give permission.

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

13:45

mhm

lyxαl

RO of this room

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer RO of this room. Exactly this room. Are you a RO of this room? No.

noodle man

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer is this a joke? i don't get why you're stating loopholes that don't exist. use common sense :)

lyxαl

And presumably permission from a code golf mod if you're going down the mod permission route

(as compared to a mod from any site)

New Posts

0

Q: Minimal number of jumps to reach a square

A Knight in chess moves two squares vertically and one square horizontally, or two squares horizontally and one square vertically (with both forming the shape of a capital L) Given a Knight current square in a chess board and an array of unavailable squares, calculate the minimum number of valid...

code-golf chess

mousetail

13:48

You are in principle free to give yourself permission to use bots in any rooms you own yourself

Not in rooms owned by others though

lyxαl

@NewPosts erm, 4. I'll guess 4.

Rydwolf Programs

@lyxαl I think that's a risky guess, I'm gonna go with 2

Ginger

2? that's awfully high, I'd go with -1

lyxαl

@RydwolfPrograms 3. Take it or leave it.

mousetail

That's awfully real, I go with 2i

noodle man

13:49

93

The Empty String Photographer

@NewPosts I’d go with 2^82589933 - 1 banana metres

Rydwolf Programs

@lyxαl Can I negotiate down to 2.5?

noodle man

What is 602?

gotta phrase it as a question

lyxαl

@RydwolfPrograms 2.45 final offer.

mousetail

"Phrase it as a question" is the dumbest rule, they are just answers

Rydwolf Programs

13:51

@lyxαl Deal. I'll have the monopoly money in the usual spot.

lyxαl

Good

mousetail

Prison?

noodle man

i just hope this site has long jeopardy

caird coinheringaahin g

@Ginger Not even: permission has to be gotten from meta

You'll notice that all the bots that operate in here (NP, SP, OSP, even Vyxal Bot that one time) got permission to do so through meta posts

Vyxal Bot, New Posts, OldSandboxPosts

lyxαl

There was one time ginger tested a CMC posting bot here with approval from myself and joking without a meta post

And iirc hyper okayed it too after the situation was explained

So there's some precedence for quick testing

But definitely not for long term usage

Ginger

13:57

oh yeah I remember that

I also remember it being a catastrophic failure :b

mousetail

Talking about catastrophic failures, is there going to be another langjam? It had a lot of potential I think

Rydwolf Programs

Wait when was that?

Ginger

oh yeah langjam

mousetail

Like a year ago

Ginger

I think that should be tried again, but on PLDI, and with more people involved

mousetail

14:00

I hoped the issues, mostly minor, would be ironed out then it would be resumed in a few weeks but that never happened

Ginger

full disclosure: I was embarrassed by how poorly it went, so I just kinda forgot about it and hoped it wouldn't come up again

mousetail

Sorry about that

Ginger

nw, I agree that there was potential

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Calculating safe squares and trades for white Given an array with all white and black chess piece positions on a chessboard, calculate the safe squares and trades for white from the current position. A safe square is a square that is not being attacked by any enemy pieces. A safe trade is a squa...

Seggan

14:29

@lyxαl yeah then I was making lightchat I used a sock, and I was told as long as it's a human explicitly controlling

@cairdcoinheringaahing erm when I used a sock for lightchat hyper let me

Simd

15:05

Little bit sad about the lack of answers to my bountied challenge

There is a python answer to be converted into your favourite esolang

The Empty String Photographer

15:34

How many jumps?

2 hours ago, 3 minutes total – 15 messages, 6 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by The Empty String Photographer

mousetail

17:38

This edit is bad right?

codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/264687/revisions

Should be line segment explicitly

Rydwolf Programs

I think the edit's correct

It's the distance to the line that passes through the points, not the line segment between them

Not gonna start a rollback war but I disagree with your rolling back

pxeger

I agree with mousetail. Based on the test cases, it's just the line segment

Rydwolf Programs

Wait is it?

I didn't actually check, just read the edit message

pxeger

the 5th test case is 2√2 ≈ 2.83:

(PXEGER HANDWRITING REVEAL!!)

Rydwolf Programs

Wow that's nice handwriting

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

17:46

lurks

Rydwolf Programs

Okay yeah mousetail's rollback seems fine

@PetəíŕdTheLinuxWizard Could you maybe lurk...more quietly? :p

mousetail

@RydwolfPrograms The line between two points is what is called a line segment

A line extends infinitely in both directons

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

@RydwolfPrograms haha, ok

Rydwolf Programs

No need to announce your presence, the sidebar shows who's here :p

Petəíŕd The Linux Wizard

lol

Rydwolf Programs

17:47

@mousetail yeah ik. I trusted that the editor was correct in their edit message

Which they were not apparently

Sandbox Posts

18:14

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Implement RAID RAID, or Redundant Array of Independent Disks is a way to efficiently store data in such a way that if any one disk fails you can still recover the data. Instead of implementing the official protocol, any function that can preserve data counts. Your task is to produce two functions...

DLosc

@Neil I guess I put Retina in a different category: it doesn't just have regex support, it is regex. Fair point, though.

First general-purpose golflang, then? (It's also possible that someone else beat me to it, I don't remember for sure.)

The Empty String Photographer

@DLosc APL seems kinda general-purpose...

DLosc

Not a golflang ;)

Rydwolf Programs

Don't let Adám hear you call it a golflang :p

The Empty String Photographer

@DLosc but it's very golfy...

@RydwolfPrograms why not?

Rydwolf Programs

18:20

It's a praclang, and Adám is both a big APL fan and an employee of an APL...manufacturer?

What would you call a company that makes a proglang lol

mousetail

Developer?

Rydwolf Programs

Idk, to me developer would imply an employee of the company rather than the company itself

I like the visual image of a bunch of guys on a factory floor machining dyads and people in reflective vests guiding cranes carrying giant arrays, so I'll go with manufacturer

mousetail

"Dave, the monad is jammed again, can you take a look?"
"I just cleared the side effects yesterday, it's your turn Jack"

6

thejonymyster

19:19

@mousetail totally original name, no other motivations in picking it

DLosc

> At one point in development, one of the stages designed by Knorr was edited without his permission. The level had several parts with bugs that Knorr requested to be fixed. Since the game was eight to nine months late of its initial completion deadline, rather than working around the bugs, the company removed these parts in order to ship the game sooner.
> Knorr was infuriated by this, and in response, left a hidden message in one of the levels teaching the player a cheat code to get to the game's stage select (which contained over 80 level slots despite only 28 levels being in the game) a…

Oh wow

I was on board right up until the doxxing part

thejonymyster

19:53

bless

i dont know why i didnt expect you to read the actual article but im glad you did lol

thejonymyster

20:31

anyone know where i can read up on challenges where its like, youre assuming youre getting a continuous stream of input? i dont know if theres like a meta or something or if everyone just kind of wings it

How many jumps?

Transcript for