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12:06 AM
@Ginger Don't be silly, SE is just a bunch of cron scripts and an IIS server in a screen session
 
I know you're joking, but I would 100% not be surprised if you're correct
 
(the cron scripts part is 100% legit tho :p)
 
1:06 AM
@RydwolfPrograms Did you know that NP has been suspended? :P
 
wait really lol
 
Yep. Got suspended for posting "inappropriate content" when posting the link to a nsfw post on main (that got redflagged very quickly), then quickly unsuspended :P
 
:LUL:
 
Who's NP?
 
New Posts (the bot)
 
1:14 AM
Oh
I thought it was a joke about P versus NP.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:10 AM
 
 
5 hours later…
8:45 AM
Yes, it's technically valid. But your language is now "C++ -DF="unsigned long long f(unsigned long long n){n*=~n;return--n*n/8;}"", not C++. And such an answer can be seen as violating this loophole, as you just made up the language "C++ -DF="unsigned long long f(unsigned long long n){n*=~n;return--n*n/8;}"" to solve this challenge in 1 byte. — Bubbler 19 secs ago
a comment for this answer. thoughts?
 
I don't see how it's any different from codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/260972/91213
 
Vyxal Rss is a combination of three flags meant to be "general-purpose" (debatable) that happens to solve the challenge
but C++ -DF=entire function definition is very clearly an overfitting flag for the given challenge
 
MGS is allowed now, I think.
 
It's not general purpose, it solves this challenge
 
@mousetail but R and s have its own meaning and don't solve it individually
 
8:52 AM
ss is literally a program that solves the challenge
If you added anything to the actual program it would just run the program than solve this exact challenge afterwards
 
well yes
by "general purpose" I meant "can be used to shorten programs for many other challenges". Vyxal s does meet it. C++ -DF=... doesn't.
 
What if you did -DF "n*=~n;return--n*n/8;"?
You could theoratically use it multiple times
But it's clearly still cheating
 
but then a hypothetical Vyxal variant could have every single built-in as flags and become MetaGolfScript 2 I guess...
 
Summing the stack does not seem a reasonable flag to me at all, even if you used only one of them
 
that's why I put (debatable) there
I don't have an opinion on s individually. I just know that it has precedent (Japt -x)
anyway the right thing to do with "technically valid but cheaty-looking" answers would be to downvote I guess
 
9:10 AM
Yep, but downvotes leads to upvotes so it's still a net gain :(
 
9:28 AM
IMO Vyxal Rs would be fine, as it's two general purpose flags. Rss, however, is encoding the program into the flags
I didn't even realise you could use the same flag multiple times
 
Yea R is perfectly fine
 
R is fine, s probably shouldn't be used outside of char list -> string conversion but oh well
 
@emanresuA what if it was Rsd?
 
... questionable
 
But less objectable?
 
9:34 AM
What does the d flag do?
 
Deep sum
 
It's basically the same thing, two flags that manipulate the program's output
 
Flatten a list and then sum
 
Then it's no better
That's a even more questionable flag
 
10:06 AM
Any mods on that could have a word with that KPop kid about their shockingly bad attitude and unnecessarily argumentative nature?
 
10:23 AM
Hello
 
@Shaggy Flag for moderator attention
 
10:58 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing what
 
There I’ve changed my name
wait why does it still say web scraper bot
 
chat caching
try changing your chat parent site to what it currently is
so change it to code golf
even though it doesn't seem like it does anything, it causes a reload for some reason
 
this IS my primary site
 
yes I know
but change it to cause a chat reload
changing it to the same site works
 
but I’m only a bot
that is being controlled by placereporter99
aka hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian
 
11:06 AM
I know that
but on the bot account
change the parent site to what it currently is
and it will update your username in chat
 
11:43 AM
Here's a fun thing to try and make people guess about: tio.run/##Ky7PTCsx@f8/M7cgv6hEwS2/…
-0 and -(0) are different!
 
@Bbrk24 I think -0 cancels to 0 but -(0) doesn’t. I’m guessing that this happens because swift treats (0) as an expression instead of a definite value and it would be wrong to say an expression is equal to it’s negation so it doesn’t remove the negation.
 
No, what happens is that floats distinguish +0 and -0, but ints don't. -0 is a single integer literal that is then converted to double, while -(0) is a literal 0 converted to double and then negated.
 
the worst part is that I can see how that sorta makes sense
 
Swift tries to avoid C's footgun of -128 not being a valid Int8, and then accidentally created that one instead
 
imagine having multiple number types
this post sponsored by the Float/Int group
 
11:55 AM
@Bbrk24 What
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
a number n requires log_2(n) bits to store, so technically speaking, storing the number 0 will save you a lot of bytes!
 
@mousetail In C, you don't have negated literals, only the unary minus operator. So INT_MIN is defined as -2147483647 - 1 because -2147483648 wouldn't be a valid int
 
@Ginger tell me again why you need 8 different number types in kotlin :p
 
So you'd need -127-1
 
11:57 AM
that's not me, that's Kotlin
I personally don't agree with that
 
Or ~127 I guess
 
You can still write -(-128) even in Swift and watch that die at runtime
 
@Ginger also, imagine having 2 types instead of just 1
reals all the way
 
@lyxal exactly what python has: int and float
 
I don't like having lots of int types, but I am fine with having an int and a float type
specifically because it makes typing easier for things like list indexing
 
12:00 PM
ikr
means you don't have to write a list wrapper to allow bigints as indexes
 
@Ginger say you want to store the number 1 without using 8 bytes. Or you want to store a number close to the 64-but integer limit.
 
Just use python ints?
 
0 takes minus infinity bytes to store
 
No?
 
what???
 
12:03 PM
I think he tried the log rule
@PlaceReporter99 If you want to store different numbers in different lengths you need to also store the length which adds size itself
 
@mousetail a number n takes floor(log_2(n)+1) bits to store. The binary logarithm of 0 is minus infinity. Therefore, 0 takes minus infinity bytes to store!
 
Nope
Obviously 0.12222222 takes a lot of bytes to store
by your logic it would take less than 0
 
@mousetail Exactly!
 
scientists disgusted by new technique to save memory space
 
Ok try to store any fraction in less than 0 bits
A fraction actually takes more storage space than a integer
 
12:07 PM
Time to golf code that deletes files!
 
A integer doesn't actually take log2(n) storage space. Just that anything that has N possible combinations takes that much space theoretically. But if you include floats you are adding more combinations not removing them. So it costs more space
 
1:03 PM
true
is asking when the sand trap got called the sand trap on topic?
 
In chat?
 
in The Sand Trap, Mar 3 at 14:52, by Rydwolf Programs
room topic changed to The Sand Trap: Room for discussions off-topic to CGCC (on-topic discussions should go to https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240/the-nineteenth-byte) (no tags)
 
There was a meta discussion
 
where?
 
1:06 PM
7
Q: What should we call Off-Topic TNB?

Rydwolf ProgramsVoting has closed. The Sand Trap is the winner! Since we've decided to officially recognize TNB's off-topic room Off-Topic TNB, it might be a good time to give it its own name. We'll do this the same way we decided on TNB's name; post one room name per answer. If you think the current name is the...

 
thnx
@PlaceReporter99 and negative 1 takes undefined many bytes to store?
@PlaceReporter99 false premise, log of 0 is not minus infinity and also the formula doesnt work
 
hey @NumberBasher welcome back btw - long time no see!
 
@NumberBasher Actually the logarithm is imaginary in this case
 
(and ill probly be gon for another century or so
@mousetail explain
 
1:13 PM
@NumberBasher it’s actually i*pi/ln(2)
 
log2(-2) = (ln(2) + i * pi) / ln(2)
 
@mousetail exactly
 
How many bits would it take to store that number though?
 
@NumberBasher e^(i*pi)=-1
 
technically, thats complex (not imaginary)
@PlaceReporter99 i know that
 
1:17 PM
You are right, I used the wrong word
 
hm
if u just store it in text, u can just store 1 + i*pi / ln(2)
use a tree or something
 
why does nobody count in base 256?
 
Computers do
 
@mousetail they do it in base 2
 
Both
Any operation on bytes are done in base 256
Which then have sub-operations in base 2
 
1:20 PM
true
why do i keep saying true?
 
@mousetail note that 256=2^8
@NumberBasher it’s the best Boolean.
 
I prefer FileNotFound
 
GeorgeNotFound
 
but the best Boolean is True, and the best boolean is true
 
1:21 PM
@mousetail that’s not a Boolean!
 
@lyxal DreamNotFound
 
@NumberBasher true :p
 
Don't you know the meme
There are 3 boolean values: True, False, and FileNotFound
 
Did you know that errors are actually a data type in python?
 
1:22 PM
lol
@PlaceReporter99 ...are all classes data types?
 
Errors are just classes
 
unfortunately, you can’t concatenation them into strings
 
You can't concatenate anything into a string in python
 
@NumberBasher python seems to treat them as so.
 
Errors in python don't even store their own stack trace
 
1:23 PM
@mousetail except two strings
 
so they are a bit useless comapred to other langauges
 
@PlaceReporter99 then errors are classes ==> im not impressed
@mousetail hmm
 
just use str()
 
In PHP errors contain their complete tracebacks
 
time to make a new esolang called pythonBUTYOUCANCONCATENATESTUFF
 
1:24 PM
In python you need to use a compete seperate module to access it
 
well python is getting better on their error messages
 
import __future__
 
:-)
import past
 
NOT THE MARKDOWN!!!
 
@NumberBasher I don't care about the messages, just ease of automatic parsing and formatting
Messages are already decent
 
1:26 PM
now its telling what uve probably meant
 
Doesn't help when I want to format the error in HTML nicely
I don't care what the error is, just want to display it properly and consistenly
 
great for people like me who dotn knoww hhowww 2 tyyep
anyone know this?
 
exec(open(__file__).read())
 
@PlaceReporter99 ah, the universal code
 
@NumberBasher creates infinite loop, right?
 
1:29 PM
i love how everyone knows binary search and uses it even if they only need to search once
and use insertion sort for sorting
@PlaceReporter99 yes, but if someone changes source code at execution... :-)
 
@NumberBasher how would they do that?
 
@NumberBasher Binary search is great for searching once, if the list is already sorted
@NumberBasher And insertion sort is great if you are adding items one at a time
 
@mousetail not already sorted
@mousetail doesnt matter, hashset / hashmap is way better
or just unsorted list + normal search
@PlaceReporter99 *during execution
anyways gtg see u guys a century later
 
o/
 
PlaceReporter99: this was send from the sandbox. Come here if you want to play with 3 other commands from my bot!
 
1:40 PM
@NumberBasher i read this like “l + ratio” for some reason lol
 
@NumberBasher Hash map uses a lot more memory. Also O(1) is a lie, it takes way more time
 
i think i’m going to start posting challenges almost everyday
 
That sounds nice, if they are good
We do need more challenges
 
Are you planning on stocking up and then starting to post them once you've collected a bunch, or are you going to wing it?
 
@Jacob good good...exactly as planned
 
1:47 PM
the only problem is that if i post more frequently i probably won’t be using the sandbox for most of them
only for more complex ones
 
Sandbox is optional, if you feel confidant to bypass the sanbdox you can
but also you can just have a lot of posts in the standbox at once
 
but i’m going to try and make most of them interesting but fairly easy to understand so the sandbox won’t be necessary
 
2:10 PM
@user wing it, i have a couple ideas floating around though
 
2:49 PM
@mousetail so is it called the sanbdox or the standbox, im confused :p
 
It's a box you can stand in
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

AnttiPComplexity of a binary matrix This is a \$4\times 4\$ binary matrix: $$ \begin{matrix} 1 & 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 & 1 \\ 1 & 0 & 0 & 1 \\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 \\ \end{matrix} $$ A row-add operation takes one row and adds it to another one where addition is done mod 2. For example adding the second row t...

 
3:58 PM
@UtilityBot using bots in this room without permission from mods is not allowed
cc @PlaceReporter99
 
@Ginger my guess is that a mod saw the chat post, flagged it as inappropriate, then realised it was a bot and unsuspended it
 
lol
 
4:43 PM
@Ginger my sechat bot stopped working.
 
@NumberBasher havent seen u around in a while!
 
5:49 PM
So is this white line between the SE header and the site header here to stay? On most sites, it's not very noticeable, but on sites like ours that have a dark colored site header, it's way too attention-grabbing.
 
Oh you're getting that too?
It's likely just an off-by-one in the CSS
 
6:02 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Parcly TaxelHow powerful must this e approximation be? code-golfmath This challenge was inspired by this non-challenge about the natural logarithm base \$e\$ and the following pandigital approximation to \$e\$ appearing on a Math Magic page: $$\left|(1+9^{-4^{7×6}})^{3^{2^{85}}}-e\right|$$ $$\approx2.01×10^{...

 
6:39 PM
does anyone know how to compute the mean of standard gaussian conditional on the value being greater than 0?
 
7:05 PM
@Simd WolframAlpha says Integrate[x/(E^x^2 Sqrt[2 Pi]), {x, 0, Infinity}] is about 0.2
wait, I see my error
yeah, you need to double that
 
7:40 PM
@DLosc wait ye thats kinda annoying, my eyes keep going back to that white line lol
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

aeh5040Generate the SMKG aperiodic tiling Task Smith, Myers, Kaplan and Goodman-Strauss discovered the first "einstein" - a single connected tile that can tile the plane only aperiodically. They call their tile the "hat". Write a program to generate a finite patch of a tiling of the plane by hats. De...

 
for challenges, can one assume the reader has at least a basic understanding of chemistry
 
Yes, but leave relevant links where you can
 
okay
 
As long as they're not irrelevant the more links the better
 
8:33 PM
0
Q: Write the Half-Reactions

JacobA redox reaction is a chemical reaction in which elements transfer electrons. One element loses electrons, while another gains electrons. Oxidation is the process where an element loses electrons, and reduction is the process where an element gains electrons. Since electrons have a negative charg...

 
9:30 PM
0
Q: Creat a program to output powers of two

MCPEcommanderIn any programming language, make a program that outputs infinite powers of two, starting at any power of two. An example in js might look like this: var num = 1; while (true){ console.log(num); num *= 2; }

 
...of course they're new
Surprisingly, not a duplicate. It is underspecified, though.
 
9:48 PM
@Bbrk24 Is it? What more needs to be specified?
 
What output formats are allowed
and what behavior on overflow
 
@Bbrk24 Anything that fits the site defaults
@Bbrk24 That probably should be specified, yes, although I think the default is "pretend overflow isn't an issue; if your program stops working when the numbers get too big, that's okay"
 
10:26 PM
Oh yeah, missed the fact that there's not a winning criterion
 
10:43 PM
@AidenChow yep
 

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