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01:00
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Spell date in Japanese, A Graphical Degree Sequence?
 
8 hours later…
09:19
0
Q: Tips for golfing in Thunno 2

The ThonnuThunno 2 is a stack-based golfing language with around 400 commands (achieved through overloads) created by me, The Thonnu. It seems like a good idea to share some tips for golfing in Thunno 2. Please, one tip per answer, and no tips like “remove comments and whitespace”. Links: Tutorial List o...

10:13


 !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö÷øùúûüýþÿ
All unicode characters that can fit in a byte
Yummy!
11:02
Is that latin-1?
'\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\x0f\x10\x11\x12\x13\x14\x15\x16\x17\x18\x19\x1a\x1b\x1c\x1d\x1e\x1f !"#$%&\'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~\x7f\x80\x81\x82\x83\x84\x85\x86\x87\x88\x89\x8a\x8b\x8c\x8d\x8e\x8f\x90\x91\x92\x93\x94\x95\x96\x97\x98\x99\x9a\x9b\x9c\x9d\x9e\x9f\xa0¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬\xad®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö÷øùúûüýþÿ'
If you include unprintables you get more :)
Character I wish could fit in a byte: ඞ
Alas, it's not among us that can fit
2
12:02
ÑÒÓÔÕÖ
12:33
0
Q: Implement the Quine-McCluskey algorithm

Roman CzyborraThe Quine-McCluskey algorithm merges disjunctors in a disjunction like $$ \lnot x_0 \land \lnot x_1 \land \lnot x_2 \land \lnot x_3 \lor\\ x_0 \land \lnot x_1 \land x_2 \land \lnot x_3 \lor\\ \lnot x_0 \land x_1 \land x_2 \land \lnot x_3 \lor\\ \lnot x_0 \land \lnot x_1 \l...

@UnrelatedString dont forget to multiply that by ØÙÚÛÜÝ
 
4 hours later…
17:02
@mousetail They did include unprintables
Suprised chat didn't filter those out
You win, @PlaceReporter99 Sorry I ever doubted you
17:26
That means it's invalid right?
So mod flag it?
@TheThonnu Well, it returns an asymptotic bound for the value, so it should be fairly accurate, depending on the numbers used.
So I gave my VM three of my twelve CPU cores, and apparently I'm maxing them out. Would it be a good idea to give it more, and if so, how many? The guide I was following recommended 2-4
17:41
VM for what?
@mousetail Chat doesn't filter out any UTF-16 other than nulls
@RydwolfPrograms The Ubuntu VM I've been using to write and run Swift code, among other things
I'm using it for chat right now even
I can't think of any problems you'd run into giving it more cores
Aside from like, if it's compromised, it has more cores to mine crypto before you notice :p
You could probably get away with 10 or 11 cores even if you're not doing anything super intensive with the host
What if you send mismatched surrogate pairs
It doesn't care
@RydwolfPrograms The host machine has... problems. 35% CPU usage is enough to reach 94C because the fans are not great
17:45
You can also send BOMs (valid or invalid). Chat's strings are just a null-terminated vector of 16-bit ints AFAICT.
C# Vector<T> is very different from C++ vector/Rust Vec so I was thrown off for a moment by that wording
@Bbrk24 Yikes. If you know you can control how much the load will be within the VM, give it as many cores as you like, since aside from some slight overhead it's not really any different from using them for stuff on the host. But if you don't trust the VM, I wouldn't give it more than 4 cores so it can't melt/shut down your machine
Wonder if you could use that to trick a browser into thinking it's a different charcter encoding
(is this a laptop by any chance? this sounds like some HP-level big brain cooling design)
(C# uses "Vector" in the SIMD meaning of the word)
@RydwolfPrograms It is, but not HP, it's Maingear
@PlaceReporter99 it completely fails if 2 is one of the arguments as well: TIO
One of the fans' bearings is shot, but the fans are connected to a proprietary heat tubing so I can't just replace it
I plan to buy a new laptop when I graduate but I want to get this one as far as I can
I'm scared to buy a laptop with anything more powerful than an i5 after the cooling issues I've had with my awful HP laptop
@PlaceReporter99 and we also have a policy (see "Marking an answer as non-competing does not exempt it from being invalid.")
(which TBF probably have more to do with the MX450 than the i5)
17:49
Heating is a known issue with the model I have (Maingear Vector 2) but I bought it within like two months of when it came out so it wasn't known when I bought it
I saw someone say they under-volted the processor to avoid this
Undervolting's pretty common right, I've heard you can undervolt by quite a bit before any significant performance decrease
one thing that's nice is that it has a built-in performance switch
like a physical switch next to the power button
in The Sand Trap, Apr 25 at 15:02, by Bbrk24
it actually cycles between three settings: “gaming” is the default, “office” limits the CPU to half power, and “turbo” increases the speed of both the CPU itself and the fans
I keep it on office most of the time and gaming for games and a couple other processor-intensive things. I avoid turbo because of heating issues
I never had issues with my work laptop at my last job (2019 Macbook Pro) except for one time when Xcode went haywire
but also I have a game installed that's Windows-only so I can't totally abandon Windows in favor of something more lightweight
@Bbrk24 i think theyre assuming you have a 4-6 core computer
That or they're assuming the VM's purpose is to do pretty lightweight stuff
(Probably both)
It said that Ubuntu wouldn't work properly with less than 2 (hence the lower bound) and idr where the upper bound of 4 came from
@RydwolfPrograms No, I had to compile the Linux kernel from source
17:56
why're you using full Ubuntu? do you need a GUI?
for an assignment I kid you not
you WHAT
@Ginger idk that's what the professor required
ಠ_ಠ
Install an Ubunto 18.04 VM (he provided the ISO) and then compile a newer version of the kernel from source
17:57
...
wow
and then we had to upload screenshots proving that we could use grub to load either version of the kernel
The compilation took over an hour even with -j 3
I saw some people with worse hardware saying it took them two or three hours
I think I had to compile a custom kernel for RTO once, luckily I had 16 cores available
@Bbrk24 yeah id expect my computer to do it in at least 3
I have a good processor, just a terrible cooling setup
pathetic, I once tried to compile OpenCV on a Raspberry Pi
it took 4 hours and then failed
18:00
i7-10750H and RTX 2060
Out of curiosity how long does the battery last on a laptop like that?
depends on what I'm doing, anywhere from a few hours to thirty minutes
used to be better but then the fan died
Planning on getting a really nice laptop for college and...oh wait yep no I'm sticking with a chromebook lol
Suggestion: A good computer for your apartment and a chromebook/acer/etc for class
don't do what I did and try to get a really good laptop to use for both
18:03
0
Q: Count prefix sum means

SimdConsider a sorted array of positive floating point numbers such as: input = [0.22, 2.88, 6.35, 7.17, 9.15] For each integer \$i\$ from 1 up to the last value in input rounded up, output the mean of all values less than \$i\$. In this case the output should be: [0.22 0.22 1.55 1.55 1.55 1.55 3.15...

Yeah I just built a really nice desktop so I probably could just stick with a chromebook and find a way to bring the desktop+monitor across the country
Aimed for something really futureproof and spent the money for AM5 and DDR5, so it should last five years easy
> futureproof
> AM5
> DDR5
> five years
@RydwolfPrograms i find teamviewer works well
...I am now very worried about the lifespan of my PC
first challenge posed for a long time!
18:05
RAM is like, the easiest part to swap
@Seggan oh lol well I didn't mean remote accessing in but I guess that's an option too
I hope it's ok
@Ginger Well 5 years with bleeding edge bragging rights :p
meanwhile: I'm using the same Raspberry Pi 10 years from now
(I'm used to laptops where they last two years then get stepped on or rained on or explode, I probably could make this thing work for a decade huh)
18:06
(assuming the Earth exists and I'm still alive 10 years from now, which is not a given)
@Ginger raspberry pi 23 be like
Someone I know uses their RasPi to host their Discord bot so every time their internet goes out or they accidentally unplug it the bot goes down
@Ginger Wait you're old enough that you owned an rpi 10 years ago? Ngl I thought you were like 16 at the oldest lol
@Bbrk24 was that me by any chance?
18:07
@Bbrk24 yeah I used to do something similar, back when I was known by a different name
@RydwolfPrograms I meant that 10 years from now I will be using the same Raspberry Pi
oh we haven't had many questions recently!
@Seggan Their discord username is "Fort", that's all I know, I don't know their real name
Has there been a big drop in users??
@Bbrk24 whew
@Ginger oh I can't read
18:08
darn ambiguity
@Simd No explanation, perhaps? I don't know Haskell but this is definitely on the longer side
@Bbrk24 hmm... that seems a little cruel
but I am more worried about the recent lack of questions
Also little bits of plastic have been randomly appearing on my floor for weeks, just discovered that my sister's hamster has been burrowing through the carpet and a wooden door
what has happened??
I don't know, I'm not the one who downvoted it
18:09
@RydwolfPrograms ಠ_ಠ
Okay I'm going to brb, among other things I'll give my VM a fourth core
👍
even the number of views per minute seems low :(
at least this chat room is alive!
0
Q: Count prefix sum means

SimdConsider a sorted array of positive floating point numbers such as: input = [0.22, 2.88, 6.35, 7.17, 9.15] For each integer \$i\$ from 1 up to the last value in input rounded up, output the mean of all values less than \$i\$. In this case the output should be: [0.22 0.22 1.55 1.55 1.55 1.55 3.15...

a python answer particularly gratefully received
@RydwolfPrograms how do you burrow through a wooden door
With sharp teeth
And very poor quality building materials
18:11
Wait actually, (asking this from my phone) before I reboot the VM, should I give it more video memory? It currently has 48MB
here at TNB Co our three main strengths are our low-byte chairs, our huge collection of golfs, and the fact that we can physically never die
> low-byte chairs
@Bbrk24 That seems low...don't modern GPUs have like, 10-20 GB of video RAM?
@Simd cumulative means?
🪑
@RydwolfPrograms The most it’ll let me choose is 128MB
18:12
@Seggan I guess of sorts. It's the mean of the sum of a prefix
Oh, maybe it's different from VRAM or something
I'd assume you'd want it to be roughly proportional to the amount of CPU cores you give it, so 2 GB assuming you've got the 6 GB 2060
@Ginger oh
@Seggan I changed the title. Thanks :)
l assume it’s relevant that my screen is 1920x1080?
like if I had a 4K monitor, I would definitely want more video memory
18:17
VRAM measured in MB still seems reeeeeeeally low to me, assuming the VM software is talking about the same VRAM I'm thinking of
@Bbrk24 yikes, that's not very much
The slider goes from 0 to 128MB
even my Pi has like 128MB
What VM software are you using out of curiosity
I can select literally all of my CPU cores or regular RAM if I want (not that that’s a good idea) but I cannot select that much video memory
@RydwolfPrograms Oracle VM VirtualBox
18:18
that's for a reason; at least on a Pi more VRAM does not equate to better performance
the Pi Foundation advises keeping it at around 128MB at most
(this is partially because RAM is shared between the CPU and GPU on the SoC, so more VRAM means less RAM-RAM)
Tbf I have absolutely no idea how GPUs work with VMs
So 128 MB maximum might make sense
vGPUs are a thing
I here it's kinda sketchy tho
But given that for gaming you're supposed to have like 6 GB minimum for modern games, a fraction of a gigabyte feels small
you're supposed to have HOW much?
i’m not gaming in a virtual machine. That sounds like a recipe for disaster
18:20
yikes
heh, I wonder how long it'll be until Murphy's Law makes it so that a Pi can run Minecraft (stably)
I guess 48 MB is enough to hold like 6 1080p framebuffers with alpha, which is probably enough for like, basic productivity stuff
inB4 some smart-ass comment about the [JVM/V8 VM/CLR/etc]
hmm.. given that only 4 people have viewed my question, this implies most people in this chat room haven't!
Actually the universe is simulated by a bored kid in 4d hyperspace so you are gaming in VM
not everyone who is “in” the chat room is actually active necessarily
18:22
@RydwolfPrograms shhhhhh
@Bbrk24 that is true
you can't just go SAYING that stuff! you know what the deal is!
@Simd Asking for views doesn't really work here
but it's also true for those who are active
At best you'll avoid a drive-by downvote
18:22
@Bbrk24 wine go brr
@RydwolfPrograms that is true. It's was more an observation. I used to be active here and it seems something has changed since I was last active
@RydwolfPrograms I hate those!
But it's basically just pointless clutter. If people are interested in your question they'll have seen the New Posts onebox and probably the home page update
true
im trying to do it in apl rn
18:23
@Simd End of school year in a lot of places might have something to do with it
@RydwolfPrograms ah ok
but apl is not playing well for some reason
activity did drop last summer
I suspect that'll happen again
the 4th most recent question is from May 11
which is a bit worrying
alternately it might go up because people'll have more free time
18:24
Yeah I mean CGCC's slowly getting less activity, that's kinda expected tho
There's only so many good code golf challenges out there
@Seggan I mean it also depends on what game you’re running on what hardware, right? Like I can easily spin up an NES VM, but if I try to emulate Windows 10 on a Mac in order to run a modern game it’s going to have problems
we can't be running out of challenges
Just like how most good SO questions have been asked and it's only really when new technologies come out or new bugs get found that good questions show up there
I meant SO is not getting less active is it?
according to current trends we will approach final question saturation around 2040
CGCC will then enter the white dwarf stage and slowly fade away
3
18:26
Every challenge can be solved with an N-byte Vyxal program. We're gradually exhausting every interesting low-N challenge, and higher-N challenges have much much much lower odds of being something interesting to golf or describe
in 2022 there were 11 questions on May 12-14
(and you can replace Vyxal with any other high-density challenge encoding scheme)
(which is really just what a golfing language is: an attempt to serialize the list of possible challenges as densely as possible)
alternately we could start frantically creating new languages and answering in them, but if we do that for too long the site will reach critical mass and collapse into a black hole
I am not sure I believe in this theory :)
@RydwolfPrograms Me: in this challenge, using vyxal is not allowed.
18:28
I don't see anyone running out of questions on math.se
yeah but they're math.se
we don't talk about them
SO is also not running out of javascript questions
Math is infinite
@Simd No, but most asked now are duplicates or incredibly specific
18:29
is javascript infinite?
@Simd well that's because it's JavaScript
And since incredibly specific CGCC challenges are also very boring, we can't do that
@Simd infinitely confusing
The vast majority of questions on SO are also bad
We have higher quality standards
@Simd it is impossible to tell whether math.se will halt or not
4
18:30
not so high that it kills the site I hope
@Seggan :)
If we run out of good challenges we should let the site die, not gradually lower our quality standards
there is not reason to run out of good challenges at all
but then what do we do?
@Seggan I guess we will need to start coding in a Turing complete language!
18:31
if the site dies we go with it
there are an infinite number of interesting algorithms questions to start with
I'd rather come back to CGCC in 10 years and see the occasional good answer to 10 year old questions, not an active community of shitposters and garbage
@Ginger If you die in CGCC you die IN REAL LIFE
EXACTLY
@Ginger PLDI :p
OHHHHHHH
you planned this whole thing out, didn't you
18:32
and another infinite of small coding questions
Or we just hang out without centering ourselves around a single site
I haven't been active on main in like a year
we jump ship from CGCC and flee to PLDI
for example my latest question :)
I'm a citizen of TNB not of CGCC
I haven’t made a coding challenge yet…
18:32
@RydwolfPrograms my point was more that TNB is linked to CGCC
@RydwolfPrograms that is sad
Yeah, but I'm happy, so it doesn't matter
so if the site dies TNB and all linked chatrooms go with it, right?
@PlaceReporter99 do it!
Yeah but we can just download the transcript and move to Discord or whatever
18:33
blech
And communities slowly drift apart anyway
I hate discord
We already have a TNB discord
I mean if chat actually did go down you'd probably make a replacement in like a week
I already have one ready
18:33
I mean, we already have the clients, and then we just have to reverse engineer the server
I have to go in a bit. I hope for goodness on my return :)
Why would we reimplement it the same way when we can do it better
nah, if chat dies we're making a replacement
^^
I added proper markdown and mathjax to CoC and it took like 2 hours
@RydwolfPrograms ikr
18:34
Probably would be better to replace it with something less utterly insane
I have already lost enough sanity to master-chat.js
besides, reverse engineering the bugs would be hard
7
lmao
Who's gonna reimplement UTC midnight
18:34
ooh, I will!
i call it
argh
get ninja'd nerd
Can vyxal access the internet?
yes
Maybe SO needs a code-golf tag :)
18:35
ooh twice on that starboard in 5 mins
At the end of the day there's two questions: what happens when CGCC dies, and what happens when its community dies. They are not the same question, and I don't think the answer to either will be relevant any time soon.
@Simd they do
Don’t tell me you’ll implement a chat server in Vyxal
do it
my personal conspiracy theory as to why the UTC midnight thing happens:
if datetime.now() == getMidnight():
    os.system("sudo systemctl restart bonfire.service") # it breaks if we don't do this
What UTC midnight thing? /gen
I got an idea for code golf challenge!!!
@Ginger perfect
18:36
@Bbrk24 messages sent at UTC midnight often send twice, or just don't send at all
@Bbrk24 chat stutters at utc midnight
it's weird
amazing
heh, what if we all moved to Campfire
I've still got the source for it somewhere
and sing our campfire song, our C A M P F I R E S O N G song
18:37
changed my title again :)
I'm going to write a song about singing about that message and call it "the campfire song song song song"
A propos nothing in particular: I’ve thought before about having a small keypad where the buttons would update… something, somewhere, that would change my displayed pronouns. But it would have to update so many disparate things as it currently stands (chat profile, SE profile, nicknames on some discord servers) that I’d have no idea how to implement that. Any ideas/suggestions?
Of course it may not necessarily be easy or even possible but it’s something I’ve wanted for a few months now
@PlaceReporter99 Make sure to use the sandbox!
@Bbrk24 A macro that opens a terminal and types a command that runs a bash script, maybe?
Yeah but what would the script do
Just make POST requests to whatever's necessary. You've already got the SE login flow reverse engineered so you'd just need to make a couple of requests after that.
Not sure how Discord does things but it can't be too much more difficult
Well maybe not a bash script
18:44
@RydwolfPrograms actually, I haven’t. sechat works but my Swift code doesn’t
and we have no idea why
... why is my region in windows settings set as namibia
LOL
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

HippopotomonstrosesquipedalianWHAT ARE YOU SAYING!?! In this challenge, you must write a programme that accesses the chat room named "The Nineteenth Bakery" and outputs the latest message. Message format Here is the format the output should be in: Sender: Message For example: GingerBot: I AM BOT FEED ME BUTTER.

@Seggan wide brain
@Bbrk24 this is a cool idea
I have some hardware that might work, lemme find a link
@RydwolfPrograms sandbox post popped up in chat
18:46
as for the chat auth flow, you'd probably be better off doing it in Python
Swift doesn't really seem like the kinda language that's ideal for stuff like that
and for all of its faults Python is very good at tiny little macro scripts
Yeah I might use sechat or a derivative thereof
noice
alternative: just a bunch of curl commands
which reminds me: I really need to get around to working on sechat again
I assume sechat doesn’t have a way to modify your main site profile?
18:48
I need to: 1. add docs to v2, 2. add tests to v2, 3. release v2, and 4. make v2 actually reliable and such
@Bbrk24 yeah, it doesn't even have a way to modify your chat profile
it's mostly a chat lib
it's probably possible to make something that could do it tho
yeah, modifying the main site profile might be out of scope for it, but a way to modify your chat profile would be nice
right, I'll look into it
I'm 100% sure it'll be easy to do
as for main, lemme see if there's anything in the API about that
hmmmmmm, I think it'd actually be possible to do!
it looks like the endpoint uses a main-site fkey
and we already know how to get one of those
ugh frick, I don't think there's an XHR-y way to get the bio data
so there would be HTML parsing involved :/
If anyone has feedback on my sandbox post, post it as a comment and I will probably check them at around 12:30 UCT.
18:58
> UCT
Universal Coordinated Time
the correct ordering
@Ginger For main or for chat?
both, probably
Either way, the pronoun assistant userscript exists as prior art here
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