The Nineteenth Byte

Ginger

00:30

holy hell

I think it just worked

IT WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORKED

@Seggan DANCE PARTY TIME

ginger@gingerdrop:~/Rabbit$ gradle run --args=test.rbt

> Task :run
"Hello, world!"

BUILD SUCCESSFUL in 6s

I have a giant grin on my face right now

time to do a little bit of cleanup and release it to the masses!

Seggan

@Ginger congrats

i file a copyright claim on 74.382% of your code

Ginger

time to JAR it up and ship it off

Seggan

...without static typing?

time to file a DMCA request then

Ginger

yes, this is an MVP

Seggan

how did you do it so fast when rol took months

Ginger

00:44

1. This is an incredibly bare-bones MVP and 2. I stood on the shoulders of giants

or more specifically one particular giant ;)

...wow ;) looks suggestive

Seggan

wdym suggestive

Ginger

questionable

Seggan

im confused

Ginger

if ;) were a person it'd wear a fedora :p

@Seggan dw about it

what I'm trying to say is thank you so much for all of your help

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger oh you mean the emoticon itself

Ginger

00:46

@RydwolfPrograms yes lol

Rydwolf Programs

I thought you were like, winking in general and commenting that we were all particularly looking particularly questionable today

Ginger

I can see how that'd be misinterpreted lmao

Seggan

@RydwolfPrograms ahhhhh

@Ginger yw

i get it

Rydwolf Programs

Ginger about to stand on the shoulders of a giant

"My code is stuck in your corneas"

Ginger

download and try it out here!

Seggan

00:51

docs?

the docs

@Seggan you called?

Seggan

no, sorry, the other kind

the docs

Ah

Okay then

Neil

@Seggan how would you write it, return other.equals(name)?

Ginger

@Seggan none, good luck!

caird coinheringaahin g

01:21

I can't vote on my own answers, but this has my +1 — lyxal 2 days ago

Not calling out this comment specifically, I just happened to see it, and it's something I've been meaning to talk about for a while:

If you post an answer to a meta discussion, please only post answers you actually agree with (making these kinda comments irrelevant). If there is actually a significant opposing opinion, then a) someone who agrees with that opinion will post it, and b) they won't be discouraged from posting that because someone posted a single sentence "I agree/disagree with the post" answer posted by the person who started the discussion

Sandbox Posts

01:58

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Ragged list pattern matching (2) code-golf decision-problem ragged-list pattern-matching This is a sequel to Ragged list pattern matching. In this challenge, the wildcard may match a sequence of items of any length instead of just a single item. Given a pattern and a ragged list of integers, you...

Seggan

if (other !is Identifier) return false
return this.name == other.name

@Neil ^

if the return was a bit more complex, adding if (this === other) return true could be a useful optimization

emanresu A

02:49

@cairdcoinheringaahing And they'll create a better argument towards that opinion

Bbrk24

03:04

// FIXME: This class is held together by an uncomfortable amount of spaghetti. It seems to work, for now, but it's prone
// to error if you look at it funny.

this is a comforting comment

Unrelated String

deeply

Bbrk24

03:43

Is it possible to write a unit test to ensure that, when called with certain inputs, the function under test doesn't halt? Like I want it to enter an infinite loop in some cases

Rydwolf Programs

04:12

No

Unless you could peek inside of the function and keep track of all its state to check if it ever enters an identical state twice

But otherwise you're just in halting problem territory right

Bbrk24

Yeah that's kinda what I figured

Bubbler

04:28

A possible alternative might be that it runs for at least xxxxxxx steps (or x seconds)

Aiden Chow

@lyxal :\ was it really two hours...

geez time flies by fast

still not sure if i fully understand the concept but im not about to start that convo again lol

@DLosc :( it was pretty confusing... what can i say...

Bbrk24

TIL from __future__ import braces

Unrelated String

04:54

the classic

oh yeah and depending on why you want it to loop infinitely you could also refactor it to make the condition itself testable

which may or may not have other desirable effects on the code structure :P

(why do you want it to do that)

user

@Bbrk24 You could do it the lazy way and simply check if it runs for 5 minutes without halting :P

Unless you're running all the tests on your computer

If your repo is on GitHub, you could have it run all the tests in a workflow there, and only run tests tagged fast on your own computer (I assume your testing framework has a way to tag tests as being fast, slow, whatever)

Bbrk24

05:17

@UnrelatedString To test that my interpreter can handle infinite loops in the code it's interpreting :P

Unrelated String

:P

Bbrk24

@user I actually haven't written any tests or even settled on a framework yet. I was just wondering mainly

New Posts

0

Q: "Sort" by element duplication

Inspired by one of many bugs I ran into while implementing selection sort in trilangle. Given a non-empty list of non-negative integers, "sort" the list using the following procedure: Find and output the smallest value in the list. If the list only has one element, stop. Recurse on a sublist: I...

Bubbler

facepalm of the day: let gridCopy = [grid.map(row => row.map(cell => cell))];

gridCopy is supposed to be of the same dimensions as grid, and I spent two hours to realize the enclosing [] is the problem

Bbrk24

Did you copy it from a list comprehension and not remove them or...?

Bubbler

05:32

no, the elements are plain numbers, so it's doing deepcopy correctly

but then it's enclosing itself in a 1-elem array

also it's JS

Piet editor update: now supports backward label and undo/redo

Unrelated String

05:52

nice

user

@Bubbler JS doesn't have a way to shallow copy arrays without doing row.map(cell => cell)?

Bbrk24

There's [...row] which does the same thing but shorter

emanresu A

@user @Bubbler structuredClone, although it's fairly recent

(polyfills exist tho)

user

@Bbrk24 Nice, clearer too. any disadvantages?

Bbrk24

It probably behaves differently for sparse arrays (i.e. [1, , 3])

user

06:05

Forgot those existed

Cursed

emanresu A

Yeah for sparse arrays it replaces empty slots with undefined

Sparse arrays are weir

Bubbler

@emanresuA Cool

but it's classified as a DOM API and not a JS built-in function...?

very weird

Bbrk24

It is in Node 17 though

Bubbler

but not in workers

zoomlogo

06:36

@Bbrk24 is that JS?

what the hell is this

Bbrk24

@zoomlogo Better yet, 1 in [1, undefined, 3] is true but 1 in [1, , 3] is false

Unrelated String

...what??

oh because it's an index

not item membership

i.e., 1 in [, 2]

emanresu A

Yeah

Unrelated String

thanks javascript

emanresu A

It's meant for use with objects - "e" in {e: 4, a: 2}

Bbrk24

06:45

I would recommend avoiding it. I definitely didn’t have a discord bot that would crash every time you tried to run /__proto__ or anything like that

Use hasOwnProperty instead if you can

emanresu A

I once crashed radvylf's tanks game by naming myself constructor

Moral of the story, use Object.create(null)

Bbrk24

And that’s why you use Map instead of Object

or that

mousetail

Has anyone here actually used the "empty slots" in array feature in JavaScript for some legitimate purpose?

emanresu A

It occasionally can be abused for golf

Bbrk24

Using ES6-style classes, you can achieve this with class C extends null rather than calling Object.create

Command Master

06:51

I'd like to post this sandbox challenge, but currently the tasks "Print the error message <some error produced in X>" and "Evaluate the language X" will have shorter solutions in X than almost any other languages, making many usually correct claims wrong. Any suggestions on how to fix that? Or should these be allowed?

Bbrk24

The “evaluate this language” one is only a problem for languages with eval. But yeah, I’m not sure about the error message one either.

emanresu A

It just feels like there are almost no valid solutions

Unrelated String

it feels too abstract in a way

emanresu A

^

zoomlogo

@Bbrk24 WHAT

Unrelated String

07:03

20 mins ago, by Unrelated String

i.e., 1 in [, 2]

zoomlogo

why is it not item membership?

i feel like the original developers of JS were too lazy to fix JS's bugs and advertised the bugs as features

and because of backwards compatibility JS now still has those "features"

emanresu A

It's not a bug at all

As I said before it's meant for use with objects, and arrays are objects

Most cursed things in JS are the result of internal consistency.

mousetail

Anything with a length is considered a array

zoomlogo

-_-

@emanresuA internal consistency results in external cursedness?

Unrelated String

and internal cursedness

just cursedness in general

zoomlogo

07:19

cursed

zoomlogo

08:08

is the rust usize equivalent to size_t?

Bubbler

@zoomlogo conceptually similar, but may be different in actual size

rust usize is always 64-bit in 64-bit systems, but size_t is allowed to be smaller

zoomlogo

@Bubbler thanks

New Posts

09:12

0

Q: Sophie Safe primes

Description Write a program or function that takes in a positive integer \$n\$ as input and outputs all Sophie Germain primes that are safe primes less than or equal to \$n\$. A prime number \$p\$ is a Sophie Germain prime if \$2p+1\$ is also a prime. A prime number \$p\$ is a safe prime as a res...

code-golf number-theory primes

mousetail

10:26

KOTH dating game controller

zoomlogo

11:06

lol

Jacob

11:48

well i've been a pretty active user on this site for the past few months, i should properly introduce myself here

i am jacob. i am a student at an art high school. i am mostly an artist but i like coding as a hobby. ok i think that's enough

lyxal

hi yes hello

Jacob

oh also my time zone is est

lyxal

established when?

Jacob

hello 👋

mousetail

Do you enjoy fractals?

Jacob

11:51

?

i suppose

mousetail

They are like the overlap between coding and art

Jacob

lol

i don't know many but they are a nice concept ig

lyxal

@Jacob here's a little thing I made that acts as a proper introduction to me

Jacob

shit you got me

lyxal

now you know about me :p

Jacob

11:54

here is some of my artwork if you are interested

mousetail

lol

At least make the link different

lyxal

Meme Economics by Ginger and Lyxal

Mar 2, 2022 at 12:19, 15 minutes total – 34 messages, 4 users, 6 stars

Bookmarked Mar 2, 2022 at 12:38 by Ginger

you might find that conversation of use

Mar 2, 2022 at 12:22, by lyxal

Here's the number one takeaway: don't be a sussy baka by devaluing the rickroll further than doge coin. "Rick low and roll high" as they say at Dankford University™

Jacob

@mousetail sorry here's the real link

lyxal

that's the takeaway message

Jacob

understood

lyxal

11:57

good

it's an important lesson for all to learn

you don't go baiting someone who just baited you, because obviously they'll be expecting a rickroll back :p

Ginger

exactly, couldn't've'd said it better myself

Jacob

i forget, is this room tolerant of exessive emoji usage?

Ginger

oh wait, I did

lyxal

@Jacob depends on the relevance

Ginger

12:20

@lyxal have you tried Rabbit yet?

I'm looking for MVP feedback

lyxal

:thonk:

Ginger

ignore that

it's probably because it contains a JAR

lyxal

actually it's because it's served from http while chat uses https

Ginger

@lyxal me when I forgor certificate

lyxal

so how do I run it

Ginger

12:22

regardless, you have my [Special Guaranttee]! that it's safe

lyxal

16 secs ago, by lyxal

so how do I run it

Ginger

lyxal

well then

8 mins ago, by lyxal

16 secs ago, by lyxal

so how do I run it

lyxal

12:41

¿ is an interesting character for assigning an up-trigraph or a down-trigraph to. On one hand, it's got what you might consider an updot like other updot letters. On the other hand, it's upside down in nature, so you might consider it downdot

Ginger

13:19

@lyxal sorry, was afk

so, uh, let's see here

lyxal

bingus

too late now

12:20am

Ginger

I think you can just run the JAR in the lib/ folder of the downloaded zip

lyxal

is almost going time

Ginger

aw

also I should probably do a little ~~trolling~~ testing myself

lyxal

o/

Ginger

13:20

\o

so, who else wants to try out my [Shiny Laminated Prototype!]

I require feedback so I know what to add to my next MVP iteration

Ginger

14:01

okay, we can do math now

this is good

(if very janky)

Rydwolf Programs

14:44

@lyxal It's a bridge between the updot and downdot realms.

You can only traverse it if you are pure of heart and meet a witch deep in the dark forest on March 9th of any prime-numbered year.

It takes you to an identical world, different only in that Jelly, Vyxal, Husk, and Ash all use updots where they used downdots and downdots where they used updots

I think I'm about to rewrite sock² in Rust

Its reliability is...less than bulletproof right now

I have to turn it off then back on again every morning to get TNB to load the first time

New Posts

15:23

0

Q: I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere

The goal of this challenge is to identify if "sand"(not case sensitive) is in a string, and if so, output Anakin's famous quote from Star Wars. If not, do nothing. "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." -Anakin Skywalker (The quote you will be using) Tes...

code-golf string

Ginger

@NewPosts VTC as "boring"

New Posts

15:49

0

Q: Consider supporting Programming Language Design and Implementation on Area 51!

Interested in designing or implementing programming languages, including golfing languages? Or have strong opinions about either? Consider supporting Programming Language Design and Implementation, a proposed Stack Exchange site, over on Area 51 (Stack Exchange's new site proposal system)! Follow...

discussion

Ginger

16:02

@Seggan how do annotations work in Kotlin? I want to use them to replace my current (extremely janky) system for Rabbit/Kotlin interop

Ginger

17:00

nvm figured it out

Rydwolf Programs

~~Node Version Manager works with Kotlin?~~

Ginger

:|

Bbrk24

Officially, nvm doesn't stand for that

wait no

I'm thinking npm

ignore me

I don't know if there's something wrong with my installation or what because nvm is absurdly slow on this machine

Here's an excerpt from my .bash_profile, with comments that illustrate what I mean:

load-nvm () {
    \. "${NVM_DIR}/nvm.sh" # This takes about nine seconds :/
    # \. "${NVM_DIR}/bash_completion" # This takes two more, for little benefit
    nvm set-colors gmmrB >/dev/null
}

time nvm ls takes 28 seconds

Sandbox Posts

17:20

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Mapping Passing Through Point open-ended-function (Inspired by this challenge.) Given six real values in three pairs: \$(x_1, x_2), (y_1, y_2),\$ and \$(x_0, y_0)\$, create a function which maps between \$(x_1, x_2)\$ and \$(x_1, x_2)\$ which also passes through \$(x_0,y_0)\$. In other words, mak...

Neil

18:10

@Bubbler these days JSON.parse(JSON.stringify(numericArray)) works almost as well

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger Me

Gimme teh codez in a runnabel formattt

New Posts

18:40

0

Q: Guessing on straws

Dedicated to Martin Gardner, taken from his book Background In the old days, the Slavs had such divination. One girl was clutching six straws in her fist, and her friend was pairing first the top and then the bottom ends. If all straws were ring-tagged, the girl would be married. Goal of challen...

code-golf array decision-problem

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms one second, lemme JAR it up

advance warning: it can only do addition, subtraction, and printing

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger As long as you don't

Ginger

it's an MVP, what do you think I did

@RydwolfPrograms ginger.rto.community/Rabbit-shadow-0.0.1mvp2.zip

Rydwolf Programs

Okay so how do I run this

Ginger

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

one second plz

@RydwolfPrograms you should just be able to extract the zip and run the script in bin/

(as long as you have a JRE on your machine)

Rydwolf Programs

18:53

Oh just ./Rabbit?

No REPL smh

Ginger

nope! that's a later thing

Rydwolf Programs

line 1:0 missing 'module' at 'ur'
line 1:3 extraneous input 'mom' expecting NEWLINE
line 2:0 mismatched input '<EOF>' expecting {'import', 'from', 'main', ACCESS_MODIFIER, 'function', 'operator', 'static', 'override', 'abstract', 'struct', 'trait', '<'}
Exception in thread "main" kotlin.NotImplementedError: An operation is not implemented.
        at community.rto.ginger.rabbit.tree.untyped.UntypedPass.accept(Node.kt:21)
        at community.rto.ginger.rabbit.tree.common.NodeVisitor.visit(Visitor.kt:8)

Success

Okay so what does a HW program look like in Rabbit?

Ginger

me when extraneous input 'mom' expecting NEWLINE

module hello

main function helloWorld():
    print("Hello, World!")

@RydwolfPrograms ^

did it work? I will be very sad if it did not work

Rydwolf Programs

radvylf@penguin:~/Rabbit-shadow-0.0.1mvp2/bin$ ./Rabbit ../rabbid
"Hello, World!"

Yep

Ginger

:O

Rydwolf Programs

18:57

Why are there quotes tho lol

Also this is really making me want to start on an rSNBATWPL-like

Getting a praclang working is so much fun

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms because of how I implemented the toString() function for PrimitiveType :p

also, how fast was it? because it's slow as frick for me

Rydwolf Programs

real    0m0.431s
user    0m0.776s
sys     0m0.066s

Ginger

huh, guess it's just me then

maybe it's Gradle being weird

Rydwolf Programs

You're still lagging pretty far behind Python tho

real    0m0.030s
user    0m0.019s
sys     0m0.004s

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms Python's optimized, I'm not

Rydwolf Programs

18:59

(for time python3 -c 'print("Hello, World!")')

Ginger

it can also add and subtract integers, but that's about the limits of its capabilities

I'm currently doing a little trolling so that it can write (part of) its own code

@RydwolfPrograms I wonder how much of this is parsing and how much is execution...

Rydwolf Programs

I should name my next rSNlike "krvina vintso"

Which roughly translates to "blood"

Fun fact: Three dyads and one nilad can be rearranged into 120 different programs which take two implicit inputs

Bbrk24

@RydwolfPrograms My python is way slower than that, it takes 0.173 seconds to run the same command

Rydwolf Programs

I'm on 3.9.2, with an i5-1135G7

Bbrk24

I'm on 3.9.6, with an i7-10750H

But also python3 is an alias for /c/Windows/py.exe, so I'm invoking a Windows executable indirectly in bash. That might be part of it

Rydwolf Programs

19:14

Yeah I'd bet that's it

Bbrk24

yeah, if I open Powershell and run Measure-Command { py -c "print('Hello, World!')" } that's 0.049 seconds

math scat

19:28

huh, I wonder how fast WSL is.

Bbrk24

I'm not using WSL, I'm using git bash

math scat

19:44

I didn't think you were, I was just wondering how much slower it would be than good old cpython

Rydwolf Programs

20:12

LDQ: Backslash escapes or CSV-style?

Bbrk24

CSV-style means that newlines in a string are encoded as newlines in source, which is really annoying in some cases. For that reason alone I prefer backslashes

Ginger

20:29

^

DLosc

21:08

@RydwolfPrograms ~~Backtick escapes~~

TBH I wonder if having two different, interchangeable escape characters would be a good idea. Escaping backslashes with more backslashes gets unreadable pretty fast, particularly if you have to escape them twice because your string literal is actually a regex.

Rydwolf Programs

What if backslashes were \s instead of \\

The advantage of that being parsing string literals with regex and stuff

You don't need to count backslashes

DLosc

@RydwolfPrograms My brain immediately parses that as the regex for matching space characters--maybe not the best abbreviation

But possibly something like that could work

Rydwolf Programs

Backslash-space maybe?

DLosc

Hmm

Rydwolf Programs

a\ b

DLosc

21:12

"C:\ Windows\ System32\ "

Rydwolf Programs

\.?

DLosc

"C:`\Windows`\System32`\"

Bbrk24

For one thing I wrote, where the input was largely going to be JS string literals, I decided to use the percent sign as the escape character. If I used backslash for escape then I’d have to type too many of them

DLosc

@RydwolfPrograms What would CSV-style as a string syntax look like, actually?

Rydwolf Programs

As in just "" is the way you write a quote within a string

And I guess newlines would be represented with a literal newline since there's no way to include escapes

Bbrk24

21:19

To be clear, I don’t have an issue with allowing new lines like that. Sometimes it’s nice. But requiring it can be frustrating

Rydwolf Programs

Well it's not required in the sense that you can add newlines through concatenation

Bbrk24

I don’t write ruby very often. When I do, I usually forget the commas between function arguments, and I’m consistently surprised that ruby does c-style string literals concatenation

DLosc

22:02

@RydwolfPrograms Oh, okay. I'd've called that SQL-style.

How would you do nonprintable characters, then?

@Bbrk24 Python does that too

Bbrk24

Ctrl-Opt-[letter] on Mac. No seriously, CSV just keeps bytes like U+0002 as the unprintable character in the text

lyxal

23:53

@RydwolfPrograms hey that's what I asked! :p

@DLosc this is the problem with LDQs and language design discussions in general. People keep suggesting things that I think are a good idea and then I get sidetracked by implementing those features :p

Meme Economics by Ginger and Lyxal

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