The Nineteenth Byte

Sandbox Posts

00:16

0

Animate the shape! In PowerPoint, there's one single overly used feature: animations. For simplicity, that shape will be a non-rotated rectangle. (There just has to be a better way to describe that kind of shape!) The data is specified as an array of seven integers: [20, 30, 4, 5, 6, 7, 60] means...

Aiden Chow

02:35

guys what do we think about this answer... codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/258321/96039

Seggan

@AidenChow invalid

Aiden Chow

02:50

well it does have a golfed version (which i did not test as theres no tio link), but they told chatgpt to golf it for them lmao

also no byte count lol

Seggan

ive put my grievances in the comments

on another topic

behold, some of the most elegant code ive ever written:

private fun calculateVertexesForPoly(n: Int): List<Point> {
        val center = deckPos
        val slice = Angle.fromDegrees(360.0 / n)
        val radius = min(viewport.width / 3f, viewport.height * (2f / 3f))
        return (0 until n)
            .map { slice * it }
            .map { Point(center.x + -radius * sin(it), center.y + radius * cos(it)) }
    }

UndoneStudios

03:50

@AidenChow Another reason why we shouldn't allow ChatGPT: doesn't ever golf efficiently

Wait, let's add a philosophical twist: If I ask ChatGPT to write an answer, and I golf it, is that allowed? If I create an answer and ask ChatGPT to golf it, is that allowed?

Rydwolf Programs

IMO whether or not an answer was written by ChatGPT or any other non-sentient AI should have no bearing on its validity

A good answer is a good answer regardless of how you got the code, and a bad answer is a bad answer no matter how you got the code

And we generate answers using tools we write (or borrow from others) all the time, so originality isn't as big of a deal as on other sites (unless you're stealing it from someone else)

And a bad or wrong answer can't mislead someone into thinking it's safe to stick their nose in a light socket or take a shower with their toaster oven

So there's no "ChatGPT could give dangerously wrong answers" issue either

UndoneStudios

Technically, we can think of ChatGPT as just a human that doesn't understand golf. Are those people allowed?

Unrelated String

no :P

Rydwolf Programs

Yes

Unrelated String

forbidding lack of legitimate effort to golf is totally separate from using ai

Rydwolf Programs

04:01

The answer's validity is entirely independent of its origin (ignoring plagiarism)

Unrelated String

and unlike most of the rest of the network we have no real reason to forbid ai

^

UndoneStudios

@RydwolfPrograms ChatGPT takes information from other websites... Isn't that technically plagiarism?

Rydwolf Programs

If someone who's never written a line of code in their life somehow writes a competitive Python golf, we allow it, because why not. If you can wrangle ChatGPT into producing an answer that doesn't have obvious missing golfs, it's valid

@UndoneStudios I take all my information from other websites

We're just really complicated functions over our sensory inputs

UndoneStudios

@RydwolfPrograms That would be a miracle

Rydwolf Programs

As is ChatGPT

Unrelated String

04:04

@UndoneStudios in any case that cat's out of the bag lmao

just make sure the model itself is credited where credit is due

Rydwolf Programs

A language model like ChatGPT or an AI art GAN is doing exactly what a human would do; taking ideas from the outside world and synthesizing new creations from the sum of those stimuli

UndoneStudios

So for the answers that plainly take ChatGPT code, that's not allowed right?

Rydwolf Programs

It's not like ChatGPT is stealing whole chunks of text or code verbatim; it's synthesizing its own output just like I do

@UndoneStudios If it's without attribution, no IMO, since you're plagiarizing from ChatGPT

lyxal

The takeaway message here is that so long as a) a serious effort has been made to golf an answer and b) the answer is attributed correctly, it's allowed.

Rydwolf Programs

^

lyxal

04:05

The answer in question hasn't made a serious attempt to golf its code

hence the answer isn't allowed

UndoneStudios

Has any ChatGPT answer?

lyxal

probably not

Rydwolf Programs

Whether or not ChatGPT counts as a thing that creates on its own and thus needs to be attributed, or a procedural tool that does not, is probably debatable, but to be safe, we should strongly encourage just attributing anyway

UndoneStudios

@lyxal So for the time being, ChatGPT shouldn't be allowed?

Chat glitch

lyxal

that's not what I'm saying

"make a serious effort" here means removing unnecessary whitespace and golfing variable names

Rydwolf Programs

04:07

If you can get well-golfed code from ChatGPT, and you say it was from ChatGPT, it's allowed

lyxal

that's right

Unrelated String

^

Rydwolf Programs

If a human could trivially golf it further, it's not allowed. But you could always post ChatGPT's best attempt underneath, but in the same answer as, a human-refined version of it

lyxal

Hell, you could get a million monkeys randomly banging on keyboards, and if they produce a valid well-golfed answer, it's allowed (with attribution of course)

UndoneStudios

@RydwolfPrograms "well-golfed" as in, "making serious effort" right?

lyxal

04:09

yes

Rydwolf Programs

Yeah. Although that's bad wording here since there's two things exerting effort, ChatGPT and the human curating it, and "serious effort" for either of those two doesn't actually correspond to the quality of the golfed code very much

UndoneStudios

Normally, you ban people who do the opposite of that right?

Rydwolf Programs

We wouldn't ban them (except in extreme scenarios)

Just delete the answer after giving them a chance to fix it

lyxal

19

A: Clarifying "serious contender" in the help center

A serious contender is a submission which makes a serious effort towards optimizing the submission's score within the chosen language(s) and other choices (such as algorithm choice or optional restrictions/bonuses taken). This is somewhat subjective, in that the best answer in my opinion is "you...

that's the definition of "well-golfed" or "making serious effort" we use

Rydwolf Programs

I'm considering minoring or at least taking classes about AI in college. What we have now is cool and all but it just makes me even more impatiently excited for the real stuff

lyxal

04:13

The top is what we'd consider valid, the bottom is what we'd consider invalid

And while print(sum(range(int(input())))) is shorter than the top one, the top one is still considered valid

Rydwolf Programs

I really like how we allow answers that aren't the golfiest and use weird approaches or self-imposed restrictions as long as they're serious contenders

lyxal

It's a neat side effect of the long answer != automatically invalid rule

UndoneStudios

So shouldn't you be deleting every answer that uses ChatGPT until one comes that is a serious contender?

lyxal

yes

Rydwolf Programs

Answers still need to be serious contenders even if they're currently winning

lyxal

04:18

@UndoneStudios that's also true of posts made by humans

UndoneStudios

@lyxal So shouldn't codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/258201/… be deleted by now?

-4

A: "Candy Crush" a string

C++, 196 characters std::string c(std::string s) { for (int i = 0; i < s.size(); i++) { int j = i+1; while(j < s.size() && s[j] == s[i]) j++; if (j-i >= 3) return c(s.substr(0, i) + s.substr(j)); } return s; } I didn't spend any tim...

lyxal

I've already casted a vote to delete

UndoneStudios

Reason?

lyxal

you can flag it for the mods to review if you want it handled quicker than community handling

@UndoneStudios that it's not a serious contender

there is no reason menu

it's just a delete button and clicking it says "you sure you want to VTD"

UndoneStudios

@lyxal I'm not 2 10k rep

lyxal

04:20

You need 10k to vote to delete

UndoneStudios

I'm flagging

But with what...

lyxal

for flagging, I'd put that it isn't a serious contender

in the textbox there

UndoneStudios

Alright

Just did that now

lyxal

:+1:

Aiden Chow

how tf u vtd

i dont see no delete button anywhere

lyxal

04:24

3 mins ago, by lyxal

You need 10k to vote to delete

Aiden Chow

:( i have 10k

Rydwolf Programs

For answers isn't it 20k

Lyxal is having a "let them eat cake" moment rn, forgetting what it's like to be one of us sub-20k peasants :p

lyxal

huh, it is a 20k privilege

@AidenChow guess that's a you problem :p

~~low rep nerds :p~~

speaking of high rep privileges, I've just remembered how much I completely forget about the site metrics tab

it really is useless

Aiden Chow

@lyxal :( this is straight up elitism

Rydwolf Programs

@lyxal More or less than the 10k tools? :p

lyxal

04:29

@RydwolfPrograms more so :p

Rydwolf Programs

Wow really? That's hard to do lol

lyxal

@AidenChow hey it's only fair - I get vtd answer abilities, you get the ability to be way too good at atomic chess and tetris :p

@RydwolfPrograms the 10k tools tell you what has high score, low score, pending close/reopen/delete/undelete votes, and you can act on those answers

the site metrics tab is 3 charts that you can only guess as to why they are like the way they are

Thems the charts

that's literally it

Aiden Chow

@lyxal :\ u know, kinda unrelated things but ok lol

also like im not that good at atomic chess... u literally beat me once

lyxal

beginners luck

Aiden Chow

u should play atomic more tho, its a fun variant :P

lyxal

04:35

I like games where you don't need to know the Irish inverted-sofa Wednesday london opening to not lose in 2 turns :p

Aiden Chow

@lyxal ok well atomic is very opening oriented but i swear its a fun variant otherwise :)

also for tetris u could probably beat me if i dont go for a perfect clear at the beginning of the game and u werent playing on mobile lol

lyxal

04:52

I gotta go now anyway

I think I've thoroughly proven that I am bad at tetris

Aiden Chow

oh rip cya

@lyxal ok really the only thing u gotta work on is managing the board better... like everytime i look at ur board theres holes in the middle and everything. once u fix that ull get much better

i think start by playing slower than u usually do and really think about where u placing the blocks. ull see ur gameplay slowey improve

and really try to minimize misdrops when u doing that

lyxal

see this is what I mean - you're much better at tetris. It takes an expert to be able to efficiently teach someone else :p

hence the tradeoff - you're either good at gaming but lower rep or higher rep and trash at gaming :p

Aiden Chow

@lyxal errrr no. have u seen how fast truly good players play?? its insane

@lyxal well i have serious doubts about that correlation but ok

also im pretty sure bubbler said at one point (long time ago) that he had some really good sprint times (50 seconds in 40 line iirc) so hes probably better than me, and yet bubbler have high rep, so.... yeah

lyxal

hey shh stop point out flaws in my long winded compliments :p

Aiden Chow

well thx for the compliments :)

Sandbox Posts

05:10

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Sum of strings code-golf Your function must accept two strings and return new string where are UTF-16 code of all symbols is the sum of UTF-16 codes of inputs symbols If the sum of two codes are more than the 65535 (range of UTF-16 is [0, 65535] or [\u+0000, \u+ffff]) then take the module of sum...

lyxal

→ 11 messages moved to GC&CC-gaming

lyxal