The Nineteenth Byte

ATaco

00:00

Bold to assume you can store everyname anywhere

Rydwolf Programs

* assuming all humans have names and they're representable in Unicode, which is of course not a great assumption, but still

ATaco

15 November 2022

Rydwolf Programs

* assuming all humans have names and they're representable in Unicode, which is of course not a great assumption, but still

@Bubbler We're not there yet unles you round

Wait we're there already?

ATaco

Yeah

emanresu A

UTC midnight go brr

Bubbler

00:01

lol

Rydwolf Programs

WOAHHHHH

I had no clue

Bubbler

midnight hiccup is a feature

Rydwolf Programs

No about the 8 billion

I've been midnight'd a few times so I know about that feature :p

I'm glad we're making progress toward being able to create an earthquake in Rhode Island

user

00:14

@ATaco OCaml uses that, and I find it extremely annoying

Well, OCaml doesn't use that for types, but it does for constructor declarations, and I can't imagine it'd be fun to use with types

@UnrelatedString MLs use postfix syntax for types, which is kinda like that

Unrelated String

oh yeah

mls are wacky

user

It's an uncanny valley type thing

They're almost exactly what I want (a simple, eagerly evaluated, FP language), but then they go and do something weird like that

Unrelated String

isn't there also some really wacky mutable reference system, at least in sml

user

idk about sml but in OCaml at least, local variables can't be mutable but record fields can be

Unrelated String

nice

user

00:26

So you have to do let x: int ref = ... and then dereference with ! or * or something

Oh, refs are an ML thin g too (cs.toronto.edu/~bonner/courses/2016f/csc324/handouts/…)

I'm currently taking a class where we're learning OCaml, but everyone hates it because the lecturer didn't do a great job of explaining it and most people are used to the imperative paradigm :(

Like, the first project should take even beginners to FP maybe a couple days to do, but people haven't finished it even after a week because our professor decided to start from the basics, teaching us the precedence of +, -, *, / in detail and then kinda just skimming over anonymous functions, higher order functions, records, etc.

Unrelated String

y'all know how to write arithmetic expressions in conventional imperative languages? fuck you you're learning that again, have fun

Ginger

00:49

just asked ANTLR to generate me a valid type definition for Rabbit, and it gave me avY8U < rLH6 , lkX3vdKq3X < f2Kcl > >

that is the exact output

Rydwolf Programs

That is valid tho right

user

Looks valid to me, what's wrong with it?

Ginger

it is, I was just amused by it

oh, it also contains an unprintable character

Rydwolf Programs

It looks close enough to C++

Ginger

lmao

presenting, the ideal function:

protected _e ( ZTwkGtB  e63P  ,
 lkzo8 <  uBI4H6FN <
        bUFI1usC1X7 <
        ⨱  >   , yYfzyHaEXI6
 >   , yv7vQEL         >   pPXqTD   )  -> never INDENT zbpSj          .
      YTo
 =
   ( "𗲘𡠳𧛏𥧅₾𗧯𭴌"        )      DEDENT

Rydwolf Programs

00:54

> never INDENT

We got a true Python golfer here

Ginger

the generator doesn't do the fancy post-processing that I had to add so indentation worked

Rydwolf Programs

For cursedness points you should make it so that if INDENT shows up in the source code as an identifier it'll parse as indentation

Like how rSNBATWPL ignores any white-space identifier

ATaco

So glad it's protected, wouldn't want to accidently override it.

Rydwolf Programs

NPM knows what's up

Ginger

@ATaco yeah, what if it *gasp* didn't assign 𗲘𡠳𧛏𥧅₾𗧯𭴌 to zbpSj?!

lyxal

00:58

> Did you mean rsnb awpl

Ginger

yes I did in fact

lyxal

why did google decide that's better than rsnbatwpl

Rydwolf Programs

Oh wow someone I don't know has mentioned rSNBATWPL on Reddit :o

reddit.com/r/esolangs/comments/10fa4d4/…

Ginger

O:

Rydwolf Programs

(rSNBATWPL) 1 + white-space 2
3

hehehehehe

Ginger

01:00

ಠ_ಠ

Rydwolf Programs

Don't even ask me what's going on here:

(rSNBATWPL) "ab("hi")d"
"hi"

Steffan

Wait we completely forgot to do LOTM

lyxal

Feb 4 at 2:42, by Razetime

do y'all mind if I give the LoTM to Arn

Steffan

The problem is there's hardly any nominations left and they don't have much votes

lyxal

Steffan

01:08

We could just stop and if the nominations build up, then start again

Wheat Wizard

01:40

We could also open the noms to more popular languages, or even repeats.

Ginger

> public abstract override operator es84yzd8QaX

mm yes very good

Aiden Chow

01:53

@WheatWizard i like the idea of repeat lol

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger Looks like my classmates' Java code lol

Wheat Wizard

I've also been meaning to nominate Agda ...

Rydwolf Programs

Some of them somehow reverse indented their code

Wheat Wizard

I should probably do that.

Ginger

oh, but it gets better

protected SYTh extends e . Y7HpOzmd   ,
 Wtzu   implements HBlhHA8fK9
 .  CZFG   ,
 z25wyd   : INDENT main constructor a4W9RB3w5 (
 npkRWr < _ < Rri8I2cmB9  , Ya6d
 >
 >   _gNcupW
 , E < DeJx7F  >   g3
 )  : INDENT pass DEDENT   DEDENT

Rydwolf Programs

01:54

Like every bracket would be followed by a four space dedent

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms ಠ_ಠ

Rydwolf Programs

Someone found an unintended solution to one of the problems using Python while/else without knowing what while/else did and without knowing they were using it

Wheat Wizard

I've also thought of nominating ATS, because I think its very interesting, but I don't know it very well so it doesn't seem like a great idea.

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms ...wow

user

02:06

@RydwolfPrograms Do you remember what code they wrote?

@WheatWizard Perhaps if you nominate it, someone who does know it might step up?

Alternatively, you could learn it so you can later teach us :P

Ginger

02:20

me when internal default static override operator J

user

I'm afraid to ask what all that means

internal? default? static? operator J?

Ginger

I told ANTLR to generate an interface method and that's what it gave me

user

Why is J an operator?

Ginger

it's a random name

ANTLR can generate random input matching a grammar rule

user

@Ginger If your default is the kind of default Java has, I would recommend removing it from your language

So J is a valid operator name?

You can do 1 J 2?

Ginger

02:23

default interface methods are just ones with a default implementation

@user yup, assuming 1's type has an operator J method

user

Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea to require a modifier for that

Your compiler should be able to tell the difference between a method with an implementaiton and a method without one

@Ginger ...why?

Ginger

it's not compiled

@user why not? (that's a rhetorical question, don't bother answering :p)

user

@Ginger Interpreter, then

@Ginger Why do you need an operator named J?

Too late, answered already

Ginger

lol

look, as I said J was a randomly generated name

user

Wait, are infix functions called operators in your language?

That would make more sense

Ginger

02:25

yes lol

user

operator J()
operator J() { ... }

Your interpreter should be able to tell the difference between those two without requiring a default modifier

Ginger

oh god

user

idk what your syntax is, that's just an example

Ginger

I just told it to generate a main function and it gave me this:

main function T (  )  -> never  : INDENT main function s6 (
 ZR < xLybjmxqlG
 >   KIpNiJNB
 ,  zPre2q < rN2ZSHo  >   Vi7  )  : INDENT public class nwQ extends bAJ4wh7vA9 .
 FPG9YnQH6e0  ,
 fORXHiu   : INDENT pass DEDENT     private interface hX : INDENT private operator Lu (
 s3dytDh <
 uYuiO <
 gpB
 , jLgfE  >   , Lj_PV_8 <
 tqHrE  , FhiJgX  >   >   e
 )  -> nothing   DEDENT     DEDENT
 internal class GNd0PD1bn8 extends avtGUZ
 .  GqAd   implements ZHc .
 V0vFXaw   : INDENT protected abstract function j ( hdkJ9u0zdxJ  m7tBD5mX  , C < Hpgh8clwmb < LOZj < ⨱ >   >

user

Is internal the same as in Kotlin?

Ginger

02:27

yo dawg, we heard you liked main functions so we put a main function inside your main function so you can main function while you main function

@user yes (probably)

user

@Ginger You shouldn't need an abstract modifier for functions either, since your interpreter can just look at it and tell if there's an implementation or not

@Ginger Nice

ATaco

What is this mess ;-;

user

I'm not sure protected is useful, though. It's not used all that often in Java

Ginger

@user sure, but it makes it more clear to me and I'm the person making the lang :b

user

it'd be nice to have something like private[SomeModule] to make it more granular

Ginger

02:28

g2g

user

@Ginger Fair enough lol

Ginger

questions will be answered tomorrow, bye now

Wheat Wizard

@user I'm not sure anyone does know it. There aren't any ATS answers currently.

Aiden Chow

da hell is ATS??

ATaco

God damn JS has be in the habit of ===

user

02:39

@WheatWizard Oh, that sucks

ATS (programming language)

ATS (Applied Type System) is a programming language designed to unify programming with formal specification. ATS has support for combining theorem proving with practical programming through the use of advanced type systems. A past version of The Computer Language Benchmarks Game has demonstrated that the performance of ATS is comparable to that of the C and C++ programming languages. By using theorem proving and strict type checking, the compiler can detect and prove that its implemented functions are not susceptible to bugs such as division by zero, memory leaks, buffer overflow, and other...

Wheat Wizard

A while back I had an idea for a programming language which was like C but with type safety to prevent common dumb errors, but type erasure to maintain the runtime properties and I explained it to a colleague said something like "Oh so like ATS?" which basically takes my little idea and turns it up to 11.

user

It's a pity the language seems to be abandoned

Wheat Wizard

What makes you say that?

user

Wikipedia says the last release was 2 years ago

The code seems to have last been updated in 2020 too

lyxal

04:28

had to create a Java class called Node. Saved it as Node.js despite thinking "I need to not get confused with the javascript framework when naming this file"

New Posts

04:58

0

Q: Sorting algorithm

I am trying to write a sorting algorithm. This is my code, I believe that if I can find out how many elements from a list is smaller than a given element then I can insert that element in that place so it has that many empty spaces to its left. BUt for some reason I am having trouble trying to fi...

user

Flag pls

Aiden Chow

05:13

@user ok flagged!

lyxal

@user flag?

This doesn't seem like it's flag worthy

Vtc sure but not flag

Aiden Chow

@lyxal ok i vtc too!

user

@lyxal If you have privilege to VTC ig

I flagged with the Stack Overflow thing

lyxal

It's been mod closed anyway

~~downvote it so I can vtd~~

Aiden Chow

@lyxal i mean it already has 2 downvote

lyxal

05:25

Needs a 3rd

Aiden Chow

welp im one of the two downvoters so gotta wait ig

ATaco

06:31

genetic-algorithms is, certainly a flex.

Aiden Chow

07:14

@ATaco lol wow, there are so few questions with that tag...

New Posts

10:53

0

Q: I'm really cold and my heating is broken! Please write a rust or python program that will heat my laptop up

I'm working from home and the heat of my laptop on my lap is the only thing keeping me warm. I have a Dell G3 Laptop with an NVidia GEForce GTX CPU. I have tried writing a rust program with 5 threads that calculates and prints the Fibonacci sequence in an infinite unthrottled loop, but that only ...

code-golf optimization

mousetail

Um ok that's a interesting new winning critera

emanresu A

🤔

Jo King

huh, i don't think we've had temperature as a winning criteria before

mousetail

I guess it's objective technically, the 30 minute deadline is a bit unfortunate though

PyGamer0

11:19

@NewPosts interesting lol

Ginger

11:57

@NewPosts huh

@RydwolfPrograms opinions on making regex part of Rabbit? (using the \...\ syntax)

caird coinheringaahin g

@mousetail It isn't, in the same way "write the fastest code" isn't objective

mousetail

12:20

@cairdcoinheringaahing He did specify the computer it would be tested on in a good amount of detail

pxeger

Unless they test it with some kind of physical setup to objectively measure how much heat the laptop produced, it is not objective

mousetail

Any processor has a heat sensor, but yes that should be specified

New Posts

12:39

Best of CGCC 2023 - Now Accepting Nominations!

3

Unrelated String

12:58

@lyxal maybe .collect() is sequence_ :P

lyxal

That doesn't excuse the fact it's still a function with side-effects being lazy mapped over a collection

I've tried to lazy map things like print over collections enough times to know that you just don't :p

Unrelated String

🌈monads🌈

clearly int stands for... uh... I/O and Number Type

5

lyxal

that doesn't sound right

I thought int stood for Is Not To(be used)

all lowercase obviously

Unrelated String

if you have a type for zero-bit integers with only one value, is that I'm Not Truthy

lyxal

last year, it would have meant It's Norbin' Time, and anyone who used it would proceed to norb over anyone who touch the program

Ginger

13:26

@Seggan okay, what if I made internal the default access modifier

should Rabbit have a Java-style module line?

Ginger

14:03

me when the ANTLR examples don't work

New Posts

0

Q: "Candy Crush" a string

Given a non-empty string (or an integer if you prefer) composed exclusively of digits in the range [1-9], your task is to write a function (or a whole program) that applies a "Match-3 type of rule" from left to right and outputs the resulting string, like this : [parameter] "12223" -> [returned v...

code-golf

caird coinheringaahin g

14:48

@NewPosts It's very annoying that these isn't a way to check if x > 2 in a single byte in Jelly, given how much it comes up :/

Jacob

can a mod unfreeze Japt

@cairdcoinheringaahing

caird coinheringaahin g

status-completed

Jacob

thank you :o

Ginger

15:15

I love how Kotlin's basically like "Build a Kotlin app in your favorite IDE! (as long as your favorite IDE is IntelliJ)"

how do you install Kotlin? who knows!

I finally found a direct download buried deep in the docs, with a giant warning at the top that says "YOU SHOULD USE INTELLIJ IDEA INSTEAD! [DOWNLOAD HERE]"

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger Backslashes?

Absolutely no way

Nuh uh

Ginger

oh, whoops

that was an accident

Rydwolf Programs

oh lol

phew

Wait how did you accidentally perform the herculean task of properly including backslashes in code formatting

Ginger

don't ask, because I'll have to code-format the code-formatted backslashes

and I don't want to have another "This message has been edited 9 times"

nope

Rydwolf Programs

15:31

@Ginger What is .collect()?

@mousetail I think it's "30 minutes to make my laptop warm" not "you can only post an answer within 30 minutes"...at least...I hope it's that lol

mousetail

15:45

@RydwolfPrograms Oh like that. I don't think anything past the first minute could conceivably make a difference though

Seggan

16:02

@Ginger i dont like the concept of internal

as in the kotlin definition of internal

i like javas package-private

feedback before i post please

@Ginger wait really?

@user oh trust me, it is

Rydwolf Programs

lol tricking Rust into giving you invalid code is fun:

Seggan

@Ginger as in package in java

Rydwolf Programs

LDQ: Should I include ++/-- in my language?

I'd probably only do the postfix ones

Disadvantages include ambiuguity with x + (+y)/x - (-y), and it possibly allowing for some slightly bad code

Seggan

@RydwolfPrograms yes

Rydwolf Programs

(but personally, I increment things fairly often, having a shorthand for it is nice)

Ginger

16:15

@Seggan yes

@Seggan at least the VSCode extension I'm using can

New Posts

0

Q: How are there faster solutions to integer addition in Rust?

The leetcode problem Sum of Two Integers reads Given two integers a and b, return the sum of the two integers without using the operators + and -. However, I did use the + operator and my solution was just a + b. My submission was slower than 10% of submissions and used more memory than 21% of ot...

math

Ginger

me when off-topic

Seggan

@Ginger imo yes

@NewPosts this may be on topic as tips

Ginger

16:46

@Seggan but I'm not sure how useful it'd be

Seggan

very

Ginger

really? Rabbit modules are pretty obvious to the interpreter

@Seggan how exactly does it work in Java again?

New Posts

0

Q: Is github.dev acceptable for fastest-code questions?

Are sites like github.dev acceptable for fastest-code questions? They do specify the specs and are free. What about gitpod, repl.it, and others?

discussion

Seggan

@Ginger package seggan.whatever allows your class to be import seggan.whatever.TheClass

Ginger

why's that useful again?

Seggan

16:51

because you can set your package wherever you are in the file tree

Ginger

uhhhhhh

Ginger

17:10

@Seggan what'd you tell gradle init?

Seggan

just... gradle init?

ah as in what it asks you?

use the kotlin dsl

erm i forgot the other qs

Ginger

basic project? that's what I'm confused abt

Seggan

screenshot?

Ginger

Select type of project to generate:
  1: basic
  2: application
  3: library
  4: Gradle plugin
Enter selection (default: basic) [1..4]

Seggan

application

Ginger

17:13

tried that and it generated like 3 source folders

Rol just seems to have src/main

Seggan

whats the source folders names

Ginger

one is app, I forgot the rest

Seggan

common?

yeah do basic

Ginger

aight

Seggan

ok i just ran init for myself

.gradle can be gitignored, gradle is required for gradle to work

tbh a better way to generate the project would be through intellij

you dont have to configure gradle as much

Simd

17:19

CMQ coding question. I have to lists of number list1 and list2. I want to compute the sum of the distances of all points in list2 to their closest number in list 1. What is a clever way to do that in Python?

so each number in list2 should have one distance associated with it and it those that I am adding

two lists of numbers

Simd

17:58

I guess you would sort both lists then do it like the merge step in merge sort?

mousetail

@Simd You can do it very efficiently with a btree but with less than a few thousand points normal is probably faster

I don't see how sorting would help at all

Simd

18:13

@mousetail that sounds interesting but I don't understand it.if they are sorted, start with the smallest number in list two and step through until you find the closest point in list one. Then carry on from there for the next point in list two

Where points are just numbers

mousetail

Oops I thought points in 2 dimentions, yea then you could sort it for O(n)

Simd

@mousetail but I am not sure I would get it right

mousetail

You only need to check which one of two numbers nearest is closest

Simd

Any help much appreciated

mousetail

Actually it would be O(n log n) since you need to sort the list

Simd

18:16

@mousetail yes

@mousetail yep

Simd

18:29

Maybe you should do binary search to find the next closest number

mousetail

18:39

No that would be slower

Depends I guess

Jacob

18:51

woah this is cool github.com/gvergnaud/hotscript

Ginger

LDQ: Should I have a metadata file for listing dependencies or have the interpreter/packager figure it out from imports?

Rydwolf Programs

IMO your imports should include all of the information necessary

It feels much cleaner that way IMO

And allows simple scripts to be distributed as single files, even if they have dependencies

Which is pogchamp and very yes

Ginger

hm, how about something like import module >= 1.0 and < 2.0

or maybe import module where module >= 1.0 and <= 2.0

Rydwolf Programs

That'd work yeah. My envisioned syntax is import image_recognizer{2.2} or {2.2.*} or {2.2 - 2.4}

Ginger

I don't like the curly brackets

maybe angle brackets?

import module<2.2-2.4>

nah

Rydwolf Programs

18:59

Using < could cause a tiny bit of confusion, since if you want to say 2.2.x for example, you need to do < 2.3 which feels weird

Ginger

that's what carets are for

import module [^2.2.0]

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