The Nineteenth Byte

12:59 AM

@Ginger you don't need to yield from, (i[n] for i in iter) is already a generator, so just return it.

@pxeger thanks

2:05 AM

Someone needs to create a programming language called "U" so it's package manager can be called the "Standardised U Software Sharing Yard" or SUSSY for short

Seggan

2:22 AM

@lyxal gotcha covered

beza1e1.tuxen.de/one_letter_proglangs.html

justANewb stands with Ukraine

2:38 AM

can anyone give feedback to this question codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25475/108879

hoping to get some feedback to make the spec clearer

Seggan

you should probably explain the math behind it

with semitones and all that

mousetail

6:51 AM

WTF why does btao() in JS not accept values outside the ASCII range :/

lyxal

because base64 doesn't accept values outside the ascii range

mousetail

It does though? That's the entire point of base64, to encode values outside the range as things inside it

lyxal

Base64, by design, expects binary data as its input. In terms of JavaScript strings, this means strings in which each character occupies only one byte. So if you pass a string into btoa() containing characters that occupy more than one byte, you will get an error, because this is not considered binary data.

javascript.tutorialink.com/…

you need to do a little handling of the strings first

Bubbler

It takes a string but expects it to be like a byte array

mousetail

Yea I'm looking that up but all methods seem to be quite complex

And many I can find are really complex and still don't work for all multibyte characters

lyxal

6:56 AM

basically, you'll have to encode your string into bytes somehow and then decode it again

function encode(obj) {
    return btoa(unescape(encodeURIComponent(JSON.stringify(obj))));
}

function decode(str) {
    if (str){
        return JSON.parse(decodeURIComponent(escape(atob(str))));
    } else {
        return [];
    }
}

those are what the vyxal online interpreter uses for turning the otherwise multibyte characters into base64

mousetail

Unescape is depricated though

lyxal

probably isn't needed then

Bubbler

btoa(String.fromCharCode(...[...'가나다'].flatMap(c=>{let a=c.charCodeAt();return [a>>8,a&255]})))
'rACwmLLk'

mousetail

It's only purpose seems to be to reduce the length of unececairy long escape sequences for characters that would otherwise fit

@Bubbler Interesting, is this utf-16?

Bubbler

let s = atob('rACwmLLk');
let r = '';
for(let i = 0; i < s.length; i+=2) r += String.fromCharCode(s[i].charCodeAt()<<8|s[i+1].charCodeAt());
'가나다'

Yes, because JS is

but you might need some care if the receiving side doesn't use UTF-16 by default

mousetail

7:28 AM

I finally found this: btoa(String.fromCharCode(...new TextEncoder('utf-8').encode(hash_value))); Seems to work ok for most most multibyte characters

@hyper-neutrino Does this mean they are working on area 51 :hype: ?

Bubbler

7:42 AM

TIL TextEncoder

New Posts

10:50 AM

0

Q: Knight to fork!

In chess, fork means to target two pieces with just one piece and one of the best pieces for forking is knight. In this Challenge, You will be given three coordinate in a to h and 1 to 8(like a8 or e7) format. The first and second are for two other random pieces coordinate and the third is the kn...

l4m2

@mousetail I think btoa(unescape(decodeURI(x))) is used, though unescape is deprecated

mousetail

I know but I don't like it at all, the output is not compatible with anything else and is longer than it needs to be. I just want utf-8

lyxal

11:23 AM

@NewPosts just saved 4 bytes by realising this isn't a decision problem

@NewPosts interesting variant would be to ask with knooks instead of horseys

l4m2

@mousetail wat this is utf8

mousetail

11:40 AM

No

l4m2

@NewPosts Looks like 85 is good for js if two golfing languages have 50 and 52

mousetail

What is the shortest way to intersect a set of sets in python?

Unrelated String

you can't have a set of sets can you

since they aren't hashable

mousetail

You can have a set of frozensets

Unrelated String

ah

so yeah really good question

you can't just set().intersection(*s) like you can with union, plus intersection is really long to begin with

though you could s.pop().intersection(*s) or something like that, still... long

though i'm not sure that something that manages to use & could be shorter in a vacuum

Ginger

12:04 PM

what'd I miss? :p

mousetail

Intense

mousetail

12:29 PM

Oh the chat bug post

lyxal

You would think that 2 meta posts in the last 24 hours on Area 51, plus the recent A51 meta posts showing the struggles of using the site would convince the SE team that something needs to be done on A51

but they'll probably just say that "it was a goofy URL redirect error thing" and not fix it :/

mousetail

It's really odd that the chat redirect to area 51 bug has happened 3 times, seems so specific

Ginger

@lyxal ~~take it out back and shoot it in the head~~

lyxal

@UnrelatedString why would I golf python in a vacuum? That sounds like it would suck. /j

Unrelated String

:ь

mousetail

1:24 PM

We need more nominations for BOCGCC2022

mathcat

@Ginger how did'ya get 160 rep?

mousetail

@mathcat The chat bug

mathcat

link?

I forgor

mousetail

33

Q: Chat is redirecting to Area 51 (2023 edition)

Any https://chat.stackexchange.com URL redirects to https://area51.stackexchange.com. This started a few minutes ago (as of this posting). This occurs for all three chat servers (chat.stackoverflow, chat.stackexchange, and chat.meta.stackexchange)

bug status-review chat area-51 regression

mathcat

lmao funny

mousetail

1:35 PM

Especially since it has happened at least 3 times before

mathcat

Is this ready to post?

I probably missed some specs.

mousetail

I don't actually get what a super/subdiagonal is based on your specs

l4m2

https://tio.run/##y0osSyxOLsosKNHNy09J/f8/OT@vOD8nVS8nP10jtSwxR0Pd0Dotv0gj09bAOlNX11rTWl1T8/9/AA
What env return undefined what return 1?

lyxal

@mathcat is this just checking all diagonals?

l4m2

firefox 1 chrome und

mathcat

1:43 PM

@lyxal well kinda, but you got to sort out the main diagonal

lyxal

does it matter if there are 1s on the main?

mathcat

yeah, that's falsy

lyxal

I think it's good to go

l4m2

Exist K!=0, Forall ones (x,y), x-y=K

mathcat

@lyxal thanks, I'll update the specs quick

l4m2

1:45 PM

Need a case where all is zero

mathcat

ah right, thx

l4m2

to avoid someone test K in too large range

mathcat

@mousetail Is "a diagonal with entries aij where j=i+k" better?

mousetail

Yea adding that could be helpful

Also maybe consider formatting the test cases in proper 2d so it's easier to see what is happening

New Posts

0

Q: Is this a shift matrix?

A Shift matrix is a binary matrix with ones only on one superdiagonal or subdiagonal, and zeros elsewhere. A superdiagonal/subdiagonal is a diagonal parallel to the main diagonal, which is not the main diagonal, i.e. all entries \$a_{ij}\$ where \$i=j+k\$ and \$k \neq 0\$. The main diagonal is de...

code-golf decision-problem matrix binary-matrix

mousetail

2:13 PM

The official "tips for gaining rep" post suggests using a less popular language but it in my experience it seems popular languages tend to gain way more upvotes

mathcat

My tip is, and always will be, use scratch.

Mathcat's third law: No matter how bad your scratch answer is, it will always get twice the rep of your average answer.

Adám

Maybe because the colours attract the eye.

How about Piet?

mathcat

@Adám could be

mousetail

Scrach might win because: 1. Everyone knows it. 2. Feels esoteric, so people assume it will be hard to golf in. 3. Still quite readable, so people can tell what is going on

Brainfuck gets a lot of points but has only 1 and 2, python also and has only 1 and 3. Scratch is one of the few languages that has all 3

l4m2

@NewPosts Seems I wrongly made "an array on a shiftdiagonal"

so u should add case on this

mathcat

2:24 PM

a what?

l4m2

0 1 0 0
0 0 1 0
0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 is true

mathcat

oh right

New Posts

3:54 PM

0

Q: Change the subject

code-golfstringarraysorting Sometimes I feel like the conversation is going down the wrong path and take it upon myself to steer it in another direction. And this conversation is going wrong real fast, so I need to change the subject in as few characters as possible.1 Task Given a list of sentenc...

code-golf string array sorting

Seggan

@Adám too tarpitty for more then a simple program

tho bubblers editor makes it easier

Ginger

4:52 PM

okay, time to work on pypackage

19 hours ago, by Ginger

so as I was saying: I have reached the point with this project where I am toying with forces beyond my comprehension

to be more specific, I'm doing a little trolling with venv so it'll work nice with nested virtualenvs

Ginger

5:05 PM

okay I have done a tiny amount of trolling and I have discovered that I probably need to ~~steal~~ borrow virtualenv's Python interpreter discovery code

cool, I'm sure this won't be a giant pain in my ass at all!

The Thonnu

Any feedback on this?

Ginger

@Ginger okay it's a giant pain in my ass

The Thonnu

@TheThonnu It's been there for 4 days and hasn't got any votes yet

Rydwolf Programs

5:24 PM

I may have just created my new favorite esolang of mine

Well, I've created my favorite esolang encoding of all time...just need to make the language itself now lol

Only problem is, the encoding is the whole thing that makes this lang cool, I don't want to distract from it or make it feel unnecessary by having some useful text format that just gets transpiled into a less readable format

Ooh! I could use ES5 JavaScript as the readable version, which gets transpiled into a bytecode which is then encoded

DLosc

@emanresuA Re: your best-of-2022 nomination here, the implied chronology is a bit wrong. Nibbles is actually the newest fractional-byte golflang other than the ASCII-only irrational-bytes ones. It was announced in December 2021, just before the meta question about fractional bytes was asked.

@mousetail For what it's worth, my five highest-scoring code-golf answers are in Charcoal, Pip, BitCycle, Pip, and Charcoal.

(Hey, it's a palindrome!)

Sandbox Posts

5:43 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Generate a random halting Brainfuck code Generate a random valid halting brainfuck program using []+-<>. Every halting program should be possibly outputted. Sandbox Notes: What should I add? Is it a duplicate?

mousetail

Mine are rust, python, python, tips, python

DLosc

@mousetail Some of those aren't code-golf, tho

Rydwolf Programs

Mine are tips, javascript, javascript, trianguish, javascript

Ginger

you know it's good when you're writing functions with names like monkeyPatchExecutable

DLosc

Two factors that seem to contribute to getting lots of upvotes on an answer: 1) if it solves a seemingly non-trivial challenge very easily because it happens to be the right language for the job, and 2) if it has pictures.

mousetail

5:55 PM

Yea only 3 are code golf

tip for gaining rep: Answer non-code golf challenges

Seggan

Mine are Jyxal, C, Java, Vyxal, and Jyxal

user

Humor also gets upvotes

Seggan

followed by Carbon, Vyxal, Vyxal, and Fig (all of these + the last 2 above with 5 upvotes)

ive got 146 answers 👀

user

My highest scoring answers are in Python, Haskell, Mathematica, Scala, and Haskell (for a while, my top 5 answers were in languages I'd never used (I think Haskell, Unary, Husk, and something else))

I guess answers in trendy languages like Haskell get upvotes too, even if your answer isn't very well golfed

Rydwolf Programs

@DLosc Risky's the oldest frac-byte-oriented one I'm aware of, but it pads its full programs to an int number of bytes

user

5:58 PM

And LotM languages

Wait, Risky was in 2021?

Rydwolf Programs

No clue, anything from late 2019 to early 2022 is a blur

Adám

2020 and 2021 were cancelled.

user

My whole life is a blur

Rydwolf Programs

Looks like June 2021 for Risky yeah

user

When I die, an album of my most embarrassing moments will flash before my eyes. Those are my most well-preserved memories

Ginger

6:01 PM

I'm trying to find Poetry's code for locating interpreters but Poetry is like 500k sloc and I have no clue where to start

user

You could maybe just ask on SO

Ginger

oop I found it

@user I'd end up having to do something like this anyway, even if I hadn't decided to switch to using venv; the switch just means I have to do it now instead of later

alright so I have a bit of a dilemma here

pypackage only supports Python versions >=3.9, maybe >=3.8, but there is technically nothing stopping me from letting it recognize and use older Python versions to make virtualenvs with, if the package requires it

should I have a minimum Python version for pypackage packages?

mousetail

6:50 PM

If you are going to make it work for python 2 good luck

Ginger

I'm not :p

emanresu A

My top 5 answers are in HTML/SVG, Vyxal, <><, Vyxal, Javascript

caird coinheringaahing

Mine are Jelly, Triangular, Jelly, /// and Jelly

But, only counting code golf, we get Jelly, Jelly, ///, Jelly and Husk

The Thonnu

You have variation?

Mine are Python Python Python Python Python

Unrelated String

shakespeare, brachylog, brachylog, brachylog, jelly

Ginger

7:06 PM

me when <generator object PythonLocator.installedPythons.<locals>.<genexpr>.<genexpr> at 0x7f6fd9c6f6f0>

okay, here's probably the most ridiculous line in pypackage so far:

return itertools.chain(*map(set, ((os.path.join(dirpath, executable) for executable in executables if executable in filenames) for dirpath, _, filenames in itertools.chain(*map(os.walk, os.get_exec_path())))))

it looks like a code golf solution :p

mathcat

8:32 PM

@mousetail mine are scratch, vyxal, vyxal, vyxal and vyxal

Don't judge me, I do know other langs

Ginger

8:59 PM

like jyxal? :b

mathcat

uh.

~~I know how to program in snap.~~

Ginger

9:15 PM

wow, that meta post got me like 350 rep

ATaco

My least favourite javascript feature is the separation between var and let. I have never wanted var's unique behaviour over let's, but I prefer the keyword var :(

Rydwolf Programs

Same!

Ginger

~~and I bet it has nothing to do with the e in let~~

mathcat

@ATaco I'm a ES6 guy, but I don't like the seperation either

emanresu A

9:31 PM

I prefer let

var seems ugly to me

ATaco

I'm used to var from C#.

Adám

9:49 PM

I never use any of those.

Ginger

imagine needing to use a keyword for assignment

this post was made by Python Gang

caird coinheringaahing

10:17 PM

Imagine using assignment

This post was made by the Jelly gang

Ginger

imagine using

this post was made by the

Adám

10:43 PM

Imagine

this post

Jo King

Im in

emanresu A

‮
‭

Seggan

@ATaco var is utterly useless

user

10:59 PM

let seems kinda mathy. It'd feel more appropriate if it were for immutable variables

Bubbler

11:27 PM

Huh, my top 5 answers are GoL, APL, Zalgo, APL, APL

Protip: pwn someone else's challenge by sheer luck

lyxal

My top 5 are Keg, Scratch, Keg again, Vyxal and Vyxal

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler ಠ_ಠ

Bubbler

hehe

DLosc

@user LET is the keyword for variable assignment in BASIC. :P

20 LET X = X + 1

Bubbler

Actually all 5 have some reason to be at the top. The first three have insane score in code-challenge or code-bowling, 4th has some crazy math, 5th has some crazy mixed base trick

DLosc

11:37 PM

I limited my top 5 to code-golf because my #1 answer by a long shot is a Python answer to a popularity-contest I FGITW'd

Bubbler

lol

how to win a pop con: fgitw

emanresu A

My top 5 are clever, FGITW, clever FGITW, FGITW, high-effort

Bubbler

My code-golf top 5 are APL, APL, APL, Brainfuck, Hexagony

(mathy fgitw, mixed base trick, mathy fgitw, bf fgitw, a best of winner)

Adám

My top 5 are TI-BASIC, APL+J+K, QuadR, dzaima/APL, NARS2000. Kind of ironic.

DLosc

@emanresuA It is true that all of my top 5 code-golf answers were posted within 36 hours after the question was posted. None of them are within the first five answers to the question, though. One of them is even on the second page (sorting by oldest first).

Jacob

11:47 PM

so if you want votes on code-golf problems, answer quickly and in obscure languages?

i've only written solutions in javascript and japt so far

actually i do have 99 bottles of beer in TS types lol

Bubbler

Language doesn't matter too much if you can quickly write a clever answer

DLosc

@Jacob Quickly definitely helps. It's not so clear to me whether obscure languages are better or popular languages are better.

Jacob

ok good to know

i've been using the site just for a while but the only way i've really gained any rep is posting challenges

Bubbler

Somewhat mathy language is better to show off such an answer though imo

gaining rep by posting challenges is certainly good

Jacob

would you recommend learning more langs if i want to get good at code golfing?

emanresu A

11:50 PM

Come learn Vyxal

DLosc

I think answers that look impressive to a lot of people tend to score higher. That can include 1) a good answer in a well-known language, 2) an answer that is far shorter than the other answers because you found a golflang that has convenient builtins for the challenge, 3) an answer in a famously hard-to-use esolang, 4) an answer with a thorough explanation including pictures of the code in action, etc.

Equally, you can have an answer that fits any of those criteria that never gets upvotes because it didn't get noticed for whatever reason.

@emanresuA [flag as spam] ;P

Bubbler

5) use a ton of MathJax

Jacob

@emanresuA is Vyxal hard? all the stack stuff feels intimidating >.<

emanresu A

It's... different. It's designed to be easy to learn though.

DLosc

@Jacob Depends what your goal is. If you want to get good at golfing in JavaScript, I'd recommend golfing a lot in JavaScript (and perusing the tips page). If you want to be able to post the shortest solution to a challenge, I'd recommend learning Jelly and/or Vyxal. If you want to have fun golfing, I'd recommend doing whatever you find fun. :)

Jacob

11:56 PM

well i guess i'll go for the last option :D

Seggan

Fig is also very competitive with them

(full disclaimer: i am Fig's developer)

DLosc

@Seggan Yeah, I haven't been paying much attention to the golf scores the recent non-integer-byte languages have been getting, so I didn't include them on the list, but I get the impression that Fig and Nibbles are pretty golfy.

Also Husk, 05AB1E, Japt, sometimes Brachylog...

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