The Nineteenth Byte

Seggan

03:18

@lyxal deleted?

were banning genned posts now?

lyxal

we're banning plagarism

Seggan

mm

so for bounties for bestof, would it be to all or just the ones we select?

lyxal

ones you select

Seggan

mm then im joining

lyxal

once voting finishes, people say "I'll do category X" or "I'll take category Y"

asdf256

03:23

@lyxal openai is pretty horrendous at codegolf regardless

lyxal

it sure hecking is

attempts oftentimes lead to going around in circles because it "golfs" one part and in doing so ungolfs another part (which it may or may not have previously golfed)

Seggan

also what do u think of wildcard categories for bestof

lyxal

~~the one year I post a lot of things that could have won the "off the charts" category it gets downvoted and called a boring category~~

asdf256

haha indeed
i don't trust it in general, ever since it gave me the wrong answer to a question on a chem test

lyxal

03:38

of course. I trust it as far as I can throw it. Which is 0cm and 0% because it's virtual and can't be physically thrown. It's cool for when it's a creativity assistant or you need to get something that can act as a pointer in some right direction, but blindly trusting it for answers to things is silly

emanresu A

03:54

Humans have indicators that they know what they're talking about. It doesn't.

Seggan

^*100!

PyGamer0

i just dont understand the AI hype

emanresu A

in Off-Topic TNB, Nov 2, 2022 at 5:20, by emanresu A

Unrelated String

the hype is from people who don't understand it either :P

emanresu A

A friend tried to follow a tutorial about it and found "from your basic understanding of multivariable calculus, you'll know that..."

Unrelated String

04:06

lol

having taken a ml class without having taken multivariable calc i feel like it's not that important beyond just conceptually knowing what the fuck gradient descent is

it's kinda like basic physics where calculus is fundamentally foundational but you can just plug and chug your way past it

lyxal

-3

A: How to weight loss easily?

There are a few key strategies that can help you lose weight in a healthy and sustainable way: Eat a healthy, balanced diet: Focus on consuming a variety of whole, unprocessed foods, including plenty of fruits, vegetables, and lean proteins. Avoid processed foods, sugary drinks, and excessive amo...

Spammer got baited

emanresu A

ROFL

Unrelated String

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

emanresu A

Also the question seems unobservable

Radvylf Programs

04:22

Are they even spamming in the traditional sense? It looks like genuinely useful advice with no ulterior motive, more like ChatGPT spam

Unrelated String

it's probably some weird attempt at establishing the account for more conventional spam use

asdf256

it would probably be funnier if that was answered in good faith and they weren't aware of the context

Unrelated String

it definitely would be lmao

emanresu A

Thankfully they haven't started putting spam links in TIO links yet

Unrelated String

but it's hard to imagine what good faith reason someone would have for copy pasting an ai-generated answer

asdf256

04:26

i meant them typing all that up, not a copy-paste

but yeah that's rather unlikely

Radvylf Programs

@emanresuA [Try it online!](http://radvylf.com/buy-radvylf-merch)

I should start doing that

emanresu A

Yes, make radvylf merch

Radvylf Programs

If SE won't make official CGCC-branded stuff, I'll do it myself, focusing on the very best aspect of the site: me

4

asdf256

PyGamer0

04:42

@lyxal LMAO

@asdf256 yes that is the problem with this sort of stuff

emanresu A

05:04

@RadvylfPrograms What happened to radvylfprograms.com/tanks?

cocomac

05:46

If I'm writing an answer in C, is it fine to have it be something like int a() {/* some code */}, or does it need to have an actual main function?

emanresu A

Functions are fine, you don't need full programs

(functions have to be reusable though, stuff like b; int a() {} might need rearranging)

Simd

06:03

@cocomac I am hoping it's an answer to my challenge :)

Is it asleep time for cgcc chat?

mousetail

Probably

It's very early for europe and very late for US

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Form a subset that is a continuous range Given a list of lists of positive integers, output a subset of them so their union forms a continuous non-empty range with no numbers missing. For example, consider this input: [ [1, 2, 3, 5], [2, 4, 6], [7, 9, 11] ] The union of the first 2 form...

mousetail

06:20

Is my challenge a duplicate? I couldn't find any

Simd

06:43

@mousetail what about Atlantis? Is that in the middle?

mousetail

Don't think we have too many golfers from Atlantis

Simd

@mousetail this is clear prejudice

@mousetail does that come from a practical application?

mousetail

No

I never write challenges with praticial applications since they tend to be tedious

If it had a practical application I simplify it so much as to be unrecognizable before posting

Simd

@mousetail I was thinking inspired by a practical application :)

mousetail

In this case no

Simd

06:46

@mousetail I guess they probably don't want to give away their location in any case

mousetail

True

If we find someone we need to track when they are awake, could give us a hint what timezone atlantis is in, which we could use to narrow down it's location

Simd

06:58

My thoughts exactly

l4m2

11:13

1

A: Default for Code Golf: Input/Output methods

When taking a set, one can take a map from the set to an well agreed value This allows some languages to easier check if element in a set with mapped value true: X[i] is shorter than X.contains(i)

By "well agreed value" I mean "53468535646843 is not allowed"

mousetail

Please define it betteer than

Simd

11:49

Sad no one has answered my challenge in C. No C coders here?

l4m2

12:07

Is struct for C part of lengthed code?

Neil

I don't get out a lot so I hadn't heard of ChatGPT outside of Stack Exchange but then I found 20 Entertaining Uses of ChatGPT You Never Knew Were Possible - and you guessed it, even the title of this article was written by ChatGPT...

mousetail

12:25

@Neil This proves clickbait is low effort trash

if even AI can write it and it's indistinguisable from a human

lyxal

it may be low effort and scummy, but it's hella effective though :p

mousetail

In the meantime I've trained my brain to ignore anything that looks vaguely like clickbait

lyxal

you won't believe the disgusting ways people solve problems on this shocking site! (number 8 will leave you astounded!)

mousetail

That's a good website

l4m2

@lyxal Nomber 8 is closed

New Loophole Proposal

12:32

0

A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Storing information in type of input Imagine a language with billions kinds of arrays and you choose one type as input to do the job, which is silly

lyxal

so like taking input as a LinkedList for one class of values and input as an ArrayList for another class of values? That sounds like it'd only be golfy in very niche situations :p

mousetail

I think it's more about generic abuse? Where the T is actually something that solves the challenge

lyxal

Still only sounds golfy in very niche situations. So you get to distinguish between types of numbers for example depending on how they're inputted. So what? You still need to spend bytes determining the type of the input when it's probably shorter to just use a formula.

l4m2

@lyxal Shouldn't matter in most of languages

but if a language has so many similar types and easy function to tell type

mousetail

I imagine a situation where you need to output f(x) for some small finite number of X. You could say fn x<T:W>(a:T){a.f()}. Then simply state that you represent the input as custom classes that all implement f to solve the challenge. Thus not including the actual challenge in your score at all

lyxal

12:41

wouldn't the custom classes need to be counted?

Unrelated String

@l4m2 so you mean using dynamic type as a "side channel"? i feel like that's covered by something else already

l4m2

I don't know any language with billions of inner array

lyxal

also

19

A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Using an inconsistent I/O format to encode information For example, for a hypothetical challenge where the output could only ever be two or eleven, submitting the python program lambda x:print"11" and claiming that it outputs in unary for certain inputs and in decimal for other inputs should not...

l4m2

(actually I don't know many languages)

mousetail

Well maybe but sometimes people use "reasonable" custom classes without defining them

In cases where you can represent something as "any distinct values"

l4m2

12:43

@lyxal That's different type for diferent test case

Unrelated String

@mousetail that's also covered by an existing loophole iirc

unless i'm mixing it up with decision-problem output standards

mousetail

For output it's not much of an issue, for input it is since your code doesn't need to always actually include the type name or a unique way to refer to a value of it's type

lyxal

@l4m2 well then what is it you're proposing to ban? Choosing the most advantageous data type that you consistently use? That goes against the reasonable and convenient input rules that most challenges allow.

l4m2

It's not useful as I can see if there's no builtin that extract type to execute, but there can be such builtin

I usually output a function when required to output "something else" because a convenient function is available

mousetail

In what case would it be cheaty though?

lyxal

12:48

what's an example of what you see could be a problem?

Mast

13:06

I assume for most of the loopholes the IOCCC approach is used. Where hacking the rules is tradition and usage of loopholes can cause them to be outlawed in the next iteration.

3

Basically, all loopholes are good at least once and plenty of them are not allowed the second time around.

This warrants a situation that abuses the loophole first before it is patched.

Now I see this approach is not used for many of the new suggestions.

Radvylf Programs

15:09

@emanresuA Stopped running the server since nobody ever really played

And I used to have to manually start it after a server reboot

(now all of my stuff is done with systemd, makes things sooo much easier)

Ginger

16:53

@RadvylfPrograms yeah systemd is great and I will fight anybody who says otherwise

@user lol

mousetail

CMC Output all possible combinations of 2 numbers between 1 and 100, while maximizing the minimal "rest period" between when a single number appears and it appears again.

UndoneStudios

17:33

Hi

Simd

18:02

@mousetail that sounds interesting

mousetail

I'm curious for your C answer

Simd

whose?

mousetail

Your'se

Simd

I don't think I have a C answer do I?

mousetail

You wanted a C answer for your challenge so I thought you must be a fan of C

Simd

18:05

I am. I only wrote a python answer for this challenge

but it was a lot like C

and rubbish in terms of golfing

so I would like to see a proper golfer do it

mousetail

This challenge is actually based on a practical application so it doesn't have to be super golfed

Whatever you find the most fun to do

Simd

it's a code-golf challenge

of course asm would be even better :)

mousetail

ASM isn't always shorter than C

Simd

true but it is never easier

mathcat

I have no idea how I managed to type that

Simd

18:09

what did you type??

mousetail

I've never used ASM so for me it's defiantly harder since I'd need to look up how it works

Simd

me too

does discovered that C-- became Cmm which is actually used!

mousetail

I programmed in uni in some odd 18-bit ASM variant though, it was hell

Simd

18 bit!

mousetail

18 bit was a byte

LotM Nomations

18:25

1

A: Nominations for Language of the Month, Take 2

><> (Fish) Description ><>, pronounced "Fish" is a 2d stack-based language that aims to strike the balance between being minimalistic and practical. Reasons For The unique challenge of wrapping your code around itself to try and create a compact box is very fun and also unique The stack based na...

mathcat

19:30

Where exactly does it state in the Code Golf policy that AI-written answers are prohibited?

caird coinheringaahing

We don't have a policy against AI-written answers

SE as a whole has a policy against plagiarism, which AI-generated answers fall under, if they don't disclose they were written by an AI

mathcat

Oh, okay

emanresu A

Should we have an AI-specific policy?

I guess we probably don't need one - AI can't golf code

mathcat

We are getting loads of AI-generated answers, though

emanresu A

Yeah but they all fall under plagiarism and/or making a serious attempt

caird coinheringaahing

19:41

By my count, we've had 5 AI answers from 2 users, all of which have either fallen under plagiarism rules, or serious attempt rules

I don't think a policy is necessary atm, but that might change

Radvylf Programs

The only need we'd have for an anti-AI rule is to make it quicker to delete them; just saying "it's AI, burn it" is easier than having to discuss the plagiarism/validity aspects of it

emanresu A

Is it okay to flag them as spam?

Radvylf Programs

I don't want to ban AI with attribution tho; I do think if someone manages to get a useful golf out of an AI program that's worth posting here

Until we're at a point in time where AI is better at code golf than us, but that's a topic to discuss in the future :p

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA No, because they aren't spam

user

20:02

What are the rules if I post an answer but declare that I just took the code from someone's blog or something? Does the answer have to be community wiki? Could we just use the same rules for AI?

caird coinheringaahing

21:44

@user I believe our rules on posting unmodified code from elsewhere with attribution is that it should be CW

Simd

@mousetail that's crazy :)

emanresu A

Recommended but not enforced

There's a meta answer somewhere that says CWs shouldn't be used for that purpose though...

Sandbox Posts

22:00

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Guess the song title I have this problem where I listen to so much music that I can never remember what songs are called. But even if I remember the lyrics, I won't always know the song's name. But lucky for me, there's a pretty neat formula to determine¹ the title of a song just based on its lyr...

caird coinheringaahing

22:20

32

A: How should Community Wikis be used?

Community wiki is not a rep waiver I've mentioned that from time to time in the past. Community wiki doesn't just mean that you cannot earn rep from a post. Yes, it does have that side effect, but the community wiki option is for posts that can be edited by anyone without worrying about post owne...

According to that meta discussion, you do not have to CW an answer you find elsewhere. That said, you always have to provide attribution

emanresu A

Yes, that was my point

caird coinheringaahing

Just providing the meta discussion (+a bit of clarification) :)

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