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00:00
Pretty sure it's octopuses, saw it in the title text of some xkcd
@Seggan yes
in other news, it looks like I've successfully been the most voting user on the site for what I think is the 3rd year in a row
Oof, looks like gnat fell behind
00:50
@user it's "octopuses"
@lyxal hey don't you have that one plant that mixes things up for a change and causes you such excruciating pain you kill yourself?
@AviFS holy extremely delayed reply, Batman! :p
@user yes
@Ginger they do?
@Seggan yeah, let me see if I can find it
also they have fat ropes that bite and you die
Dendrocnide moroides, commonly known in Australia as the stinging tree, stinging bush, Queensland Stinger or gympie-gympie, is a plant in the nettle family Urticaceae found in rainforest areas of Malaysia and Australia. It is notorious for its extremely painful and long-lasting sting. The common name gympie-gympie comes from the language of the Indigenous Gubbi Gubbi people of south-eastern Queensland. == Description == D. moroides is a straggly perennial understory shrub, usually flowering and fruiting when less than 3 m (10 ft) tall, but it may reach up to 10 m (33 ft) in height. It is ...
this is why I don't want to live in Australia
From that article:
> During this time the victim may get little sleep because of the intensity of the pain.
A quote from a Parks and Wildlife officer who got stung by this plant:
> For two or three days the pain was almost unbearable; I couldn't work or sleep... I remember it feeling like there were giant hands trying to squash my chest... then it was pretty bad pain for another fortnight or so. The stinging persisted for two years and recurred every time I had a cold shower...There's nothing to rival it; it's ten times worse than anything else.
And finally:
> Physical contact with Dendrocnide moroides is not the only way that it can cause harm to a person—the trichomes are constantly being shed from the plant and may be suspended in the air within its vicinity. They can then be inhaled, which may lead to respiratory complications if a person spends time in close proximity to the plant.
australia is weird
00:57
@Seggan that's a bit of an understatement
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Number program police
@Ginger ok, australia is horrible
better
I mean you can hear the unhappiness of the person who wrote that Wikipedia article :b
01:14
@Ginger ah see that says it's common in Queensland and rare in New South Wales
Which would explain why it's not something I think I've heard of
what... what happened to Old South Wales lyxal
Nothing
South Wales (Welsh: De Cymru) is a loosely defined region of Wales bordered by England to the east and mid Wales to the north. Generally considered to include the historic counties of Glamorgan and Monmouthshire, south Wales extends westwards to include Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire. In the western extent, from Swansea westwards, local people would probably recognise that they lived in both south Wales and west Wales. The Brecon Beacons National Park covers about a third of south Wales, containing Pen y Fan, the highest British mountain south of Cadair Idris in Snowdonia. A point of some...
It's still happily around
oh, good
I was a bit worried
Australia does have a lot of things that try to kill you
Meanwhile, we have penguins
you live where?
01:30
@emanresuA Didn't know Mars had penguins q:
Storytime! A few days ago, as I do every so often, I checked all the major electronics distributors to see if any of them had a NVIDIA Jetson Nano in stock. I actually found one that had a single one left in stock, and placed the order. This was around 5 days ago. I just got notified today that it's supposed to arrive in November 2024.
The page said there was one in stock when I placed the order!
Well make sure you tell us when it comes in roughly 2 years time :p
This injustice will not stand! q:
Out of options and desperate for some sort of resolution, I knew what I had to do.
01:48
@Ginger Give up and do something else instead?
@lyxal book a plane to California in search of answers
Well that's nowhere near as fun
I have already waited two years to get my hands on this part and I am not waiting two more
also did you get the reference I made
No
"booking a plane to japan" is basically the catchphrase of this guy, who I think you'll really like
01:53
No videos?
whoops, typo
Still no videos, strange.
hmmmmmmmm
Stop linking accounts with no videos :p
01:59
Oh yeah I've seen one of his videos
tbh I was surprised you hadn't seen more
02:37
@Ginger i visit this and about an hour later get this in my youtube recommended :P
@lyxal new south whales
@Ginger ah, i see i'm not the only one with good taste haha
03:11
Guys, check it out!
But read the comment first. It's based on this question, and the existence of countless similar ones on Math SE.
9
Q: What are some interesting blogs about general topology?

Martin SleziakWe have several question asking about book recommendations for general topology - for example the posts linked to Best book for topology? or the posts mentioned in the relevant section of http://meta.math.stackexchange.com/questions/1868/list-of-generalizations-of-common-questions. These posts r...

Also, @RadvylfPrograms and others, what do you mean by "Programming Language Design?" As far as I know, there are no other SE sites about PL, so why not just have it be "Programming Languages."
Ie is the "design" part necessary?
Because a site named "Programming Languages" could be about using programming languages or making tooling for programming languages or whatever
This site's going to be about making programming languages, so the "design" helps clarify that
At least, I think that's why it was named that
Yeah, except there's tons of communities just named "Programming Languages" with a clearly understood scope, like Reddit's 83k strong community.
> This subreddit is dedicated to the theory, design and implementation of programming languages.
They talk ask questions about things like type theory though, which I feel like is something I'd like to see in ours, but isn't clearly in scope with a name like "PL Design"
@AviFS Redwolf already said it's about design and implementation. I guess it just remains to be seen whether we also want to include theory.
 
1 hour later…
04:27
@Simd ?
04:38
@AviFS More theoretical stuff should probably be left to CS/TCS
@AviFS The name's not necessarily permanent, but I think "design" makes it much clearer from a glance what we do and don't do
I mean even CGCC gets plenty of random off-topic stuff, a site just called "programming languages" would get more misdirected SO users who have a deep distaste for reading dialog boxes than actual users :p
 
2 hours later…
06:33
Y'all might be interested in youryearincode.com
06:57
@Seggan maybe the right way is to implement the sieve of Eratosthenes
 
1 hour later…
08:08
0
Q: Find the smallest turing machine that solves the self-counting problem

raoofthe self-counting problem is to find a turing machine that compute the following function $$ \begin{align*} f(m) &= \begin{cases} m & \text{if turing machine $m$ halts on input $m$ after $m$ steps with output $m$} \\ 0 & \text{otherwise} \\ \end{cases} \end{align*} $$ you must ...

 
2 hours later…
10:09
Morning all!
@DLosc quickbasic 4.5 was an awesome language
@AviFS huh looks like we didn't advertise the site there yet
might as well post a new thread
We most certainly did
welp I can't reddit search
juicy karma
10:25
@AviFS my kneejerk reaction is still to agree with the downvote but i appreciate keeping the site further from a full week of inactivity :P
Happy new years eve to... uh, most of you
and from me!
@Simd anyways, so what's the shortest golfed answer to your decimal question?
In C
@UndoneStudios sorry which question was that?
yesterday, by Simd
What is the golfiest code to print 4.56458314100509023986577469558 in C?
You ask golf, I give you golf
10:34
I think it was just to print it as a string sadly
Well then I've succeeded
Unless trailing newlines are forbidden
I still don't fully understand _Float128 vs __float128
In which case use printf
@Simd Are they supposed to be the same?
@UndoneStudios maybe they are synonyms
@Simd In which case they are the same
10:36
there is also binary128 and decimal128
@Simd those obviously are different
what are they?
Binary and decimal, using 128... somethings
I also don't understand if you need quadmath.h if you use gcc
so basically I know one way to do 128 floats in C and nothing else apart from that (in C at least)
Doesn't sound like you know much
Sadly, neither do I
10:39
at least about C 128 bit floats, not that much
hold it off till tommorow
If I accept it, it'll be wrong for a few hours
wait!
but I don't want to reject it
10:40
> hold it off till tommorow
is there a time limit on accepting it?
I don't think there's any way for us to leave it waiting in the review queue
@Simd I think it's okay for some peeps to deny and then some more to accept and then it gets accepted
I think I'll just reject it because someone will get around to doing when it's actually the new year
happened to me in
23
Q: Tic, Tac, stub your Toe

JohnBGoodeFind the max number of Xs you can fit onto a rectangular tic-tac-toe board of length l and height h without ever having 3 consecutive Xs in a row diagonally, horizontally, or vertically. This is a code-golf challenge so shortest code wins! Input A single line containing values l and h, representi...

@pxeger though if you reject it I guess 2 people will have to accept it tommorow
10:42
@UndoneStudios it seems that you can use _Float128 without including quadmath.h but if you want to use __float128 you need quadmath.h (at least with gcc)
@Simd If they are different, I guess so, but if they're the same nobody will use __float128
for golfing
right
they are the same I believe
I am surprised no one has answered my challenge in a non math language yet
it's not that hard!
5
Q: Implement the Riemann R function

SimdThe Riemann R function is as follows: $$R (x)=\sum _{n=1}^{\infty } \frac{\mu (n) \text{li}\left(x^{1/n}\right)}{n}.$$ This uses the Möbius function as well as the logarithmic integral. From the wikipedia, the Möbius function is defined so that for any positive integer \$n\$, \$μ(n)\$ is the sum...

The Gram series is just a sum and is given explicitly in the question
Well trim off the extra digits in the testcases and I'll talk
I think the main problem is that it's very difficult to represent large floats
10:46
@UndoneStudios which language finds it hard to do 30 digits?
@Simd I go with Python
@UndoneStudios isn't that easy in all pain languages?
next I go with Scratch
then I go with... okay that's it I guess
@UndoneStudios it's really easy in python. Do you know Decimal?
@Simd yes, but it's not golfy
I'm talking about trying to represent large floats without enduring lots of bytes
10:47
@UndoneStudios remember the challenge is per language so if it is the shortest in python then it is golfy
@Simd Well then I'd expect The Thonnu would have answered it already
otherwise we would never have answers in anything but specialist golfing languages
maybe I should add a python answer?
Though who exactly are you giving the bounty to?
@Simd No I can
@UndoneStudios please do!
@UndoneStudios the coolest answer :)
or the only new answer if there is only one
If I was a 20 y/o
I'm not old enough to understand such complicated maths
though I'll try
10:50
@UndoneStudios I don't think you need to know any maths
just follow the Gram series formula
@UndoneStudios are you not 20 in any base?
@Simd We count in base 10. Don't forget that
@UndoneStudios speak for yourself :)
@Simd meaning?
it's just a joke :)
What is ζ?
in the gram series question
What's the weird symbol next to k!?
10:55
16
Q: Calculate the value of \$\zeta(s)\$

Beta DecayChallenge Given an integer, \$s\$, as input where \$s\geq 1\$ output the value of \$\zeta(s)\$ (Where \$\zeta(x)\$ represents the Riemann Zeta Function). Further information \$\zeta(s)\$ is defined as: $$\zeta(s) = \sum\limits^\infty_{n=1}\frac{1}{n^s}$$ You should output your answer to 5 de...

I even supply a link with code :)
not very helpful
I meant what was the value of ζ
it is a function that takes an argument
if you follow the link it tells you how to do that
e.g. n;f(s){float r;for(n=98;n;r+=pow(n--,-s));printf("%.5f",r+pow(99,-s)*(.5+99./--s));}
if you like C :)
And how do you calculate \$\ zeta(2) \$ if you have to sum up to infinity?
there are answers in lots of languages there
@UndoneStudios it's an infinite sum so that means you in theory do it for k=1, then k=2 then k=3 etc and add up all the results
but in practice the terms will get really small quite quickly so I would just try it for k = 1, 2, 3 and see what you get
@Simd Until k=infinity right?
11:00
and then extend to large k if needs be
@UndoneStudios only in theory. Notice the k! in the denominator. That grows really quickly which means the terms you are adding up will very rapidly become too small to worry about
You know what, since answering your question requires assumptions (such as "it will get too small", and I hate having to make assumptions), I won't answer it
@UndoneStudios it doesn't requite any assumptions. Sorry if I gave impression
1/float("inf") == 0, so why does 1/0 not return float("inf")
in Python
what I meant was that is just code up the sum and look at it you will see that you don't need to sum k to very large numbers
@Simd never mind, I get your question, but you're making a lot of trade-offs
11:03
@UndoneStudios what are the trade-offs ?
@Simd Such as "you don't need to sum k to very large numbers" even though the function literally tells you to sum up to infinity
Happy new year!
@UndoneStudios sorry it's not quite that. The sum is defined to infinity but the question says you only need to output answers to within 1 of the correct answer for x up to 10^31
@emanresuA and to you!
@emanresuA Congrats for being in a country that is the first to reach the new year
@Simd yeah still doesn't sound right
It feels like you're not doing the thing correctly
@UndoneStudios are you sure? I think it's the standard way numerical calculations are done by computer
there is always a "tolerance" that tells you when you can stop trying to be more accurate
11:07
@Simd If that's true, I don't have one
@UndoneStudios sorry, one of what?
@Simd "a tolerance level"
:)
unless it's precise I won't tolerate it
then you can't use a computer!
11:08
such as the fact that 0*inf == 0
e.g. docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy/reference/generated/… "Tolerance for termination. When tol is specified, the selected minimization algorithm sets some relevant solver-specific tolerance(s) equal to tol."
@Simd Yes I can't use it if I was observing its guts and understanding the tolerances it was making
But I'm looking at a screen, so I can use it
@UndoneStudios I think for my question it is clear and I am happy to answer any questions to make it clearer
@Simd I don't use scipy
@UndoneStudios I was just trying to persuade you I didn't make the idea up :)
11:10
@Simd I'm not saying it's unclear, I'm just expressing something that's very important when dealing with math stuff with me: I do not tolerate trade-offs
12:06
@UndoneStudios :)
That does basically mean you won't write code for non integer maths stuff
Maybe you are ok with fractions
@UndoneStudios i have no idea what the context is so this might not even be possible but it might be two flavors of 128-bit integer that display differently by default?
a stranger alternative is that decimal is signed and binary is unsigned
12:28
@UnrelatedString the decimal one is base 10, like pythons decimal
13:11
I may have to post a solution myself to see if that helps :)
13:26
@Seggan The computer knows all
What's the name of that userscript that notifies you about reviews?
Generic review tool
link?
Radvylf
That's the link
13:41
Radvylf is not a link
How do you know
Could be a link to a main bio profile which has a link to a github account which has a link to a repo of userscripts which has the grt script
alright, installed
now what
Now you go to the review queues page
What should we do about old questions where the code no longer runs?
And wait
13:43
I mean the code in the answers
@Ginger and then wait some more
And then a little bit more waiting
And then a lot of waiting
Tons of it
alright
And then when a review is ready it'll open in a new tab
cool
Automatically, all by itself, you don't need to open it, does the work for you, does big brain things without any human assistance, not the review task though that's for you to do but still it's smart
@Simd leave a comment on the answers that don't work and give them a reasonable amount of time to fix before flagging the answer as invalid
13:49
@lyxal is that fair after 6 years?
Go on....
If there's already comments pointing out that the code doesn't work, and they haven't been addressed in reasonable time (e.g. a week), you can raise a moderator flag and explain the answer is invalid
@Simd if it's because say for instance all the answers used a shortened link that is deregistered/no longer works but the question doesn't actually mention that link, then yes. Some people might come back and edit their answers to use a different link
@lyxal ಠ_ಠ
13:51
I am really referring to code that worked in order versions of a language
@lyxal is it new year for you?
@PyGamer0 it sure is
Who has had new year already?
happy new year!
@Simd Do you have a link to the specific answer?
13:52
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'll dig it out later
@lyxal is the world ending?
@cairdcoinheringaahing 17 pending flags :p
Currently not meant to be on the internet :)
@PyGamer0 probably
let us know if it is.. since you live in the future :P
13:53
@lyxal Yes, it was very fun seeing "25 moderator flags" when I opened the site yesterday
Gotta get my flag count up somehow
That question is a gold mine for getting more progress towards the marshel badge
Please don't raise anymore flags on that question about the domain issue
But the answers are technically invalid
Yes, 46 of the 50 are
So shouldn't they be handled?
13:55
And I'm writing up a meta question about that challenge because of that number
@lyxal For what it's worth, if that many answers on a question are invalid, please just raise a flag on the question itself and explain. It makes it much easier for us to handle
0
Q: How do we handle answers that have later become invalid due to external circumstances?

caird coinheringaahingFrom time to time, answers can be posted to the site which, at the time are valid but later become invalid without any fault of the original answerer. For example, a number of answers to this challenge use domains such as http://ppcg.lol and http://ppcg.ga, which, at the time, worked, but have si...

@lyxal I do wanna make it clear that the flags aren't wrong. Its just that with that many invalid answers, and with the issue being slightly more nuanced than just "this is invalid, pls delete", I'd prefer if people didn't raise any more flags until it's resolved
15:03
THE POPE EMERITUS IS DEAD
15:32
@Ginger long live the pope
 
1 hour later…
16:42
hi @Seggan
17:28
hi...?
@Simd not for such high numbers
too much memory
@lyxal is it 2023 for u already?
ffs some module in my site-packages has an incorrectly formatted version which is making Poetry break every time I use it
found it, it's python3-gpg
gotcha now you little shit
now, who do I yell at about this?
17:52
cache
always blame cache
18:50
0
Q: RADD decomposition of an integer

Hugo PfoertnerIntroduction The \$RADD(n)\$ operation is defined as the sum of \$n + [\$ the number whose decimal representation are the decimal digits of \$n\$ in reverse order \$]\$, see A004086. After reversal, trailing zeros are lost. See Reverse-Then-Add Sequence and A056964. Not all numbers can be represe...

19:23
@Seggan I think you only need sqrt(x) memory
19:34
I believe so. if you make an N-sized array that obviously won't work but you can use inclusion-exclusion to avoid that
20:00
@hyper-neutrino I think it's documented on the wiki page
You only need to store the primes less than sqrt(x)
@hyper-neutrino what is the inclusion exclusion idea? That sounds even cleverer
@Seggan it's called segmented sieve at en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes
ik you only need to store up to sqrt(x) primes
@Simd I'm not sure that's actually the right term but basically if you imagine you're only looking at primes 2, 3, and 5, then you know that N/2 numbers are even, N/3 are divisible by 3, and N/5 are divisible by 5, giving you N/2 + N/3 + N/5 composites
then obviously you have overlap so you exclude N/6 + N/10 + N/15 of them
and then since you have overlap in removing the overlaps you then re-include N/30 of them
naively that doesn't sound like it'll be faster but I think you might be able to do it in O(sqrt(x)) memory with DP? I am not sure so don't quote me on that
20:17
Oh is that wheel factorisation?
@hyper-neutrino I think the segmented sieve is always sqrt(x) memory. You are describing a speed up which I think is the wheel factorisation and is very important
You seem to be able to do x^(1/3) space with even more cleverness en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/….
interesting
We had a challenge a long time ago where Dennis implemented it
2
A: Calculate the number of primes up to n

qwrPython 3.8 I wrote this janky code a long time ago based on some blogpost about Meissel-Lehmer I read. I'm not even sure how it works any more. One day I'll get around to cleaning it up and optimizing it. Unofficial timing for 1907000000 case is 0.98 sec. def memoize(obj): """Decorator that m...

I want to try to run his code
I tried quickly but it seems to want some input
20:42
If you can get it to run please let me know!
21:02
@Simd looks interesting
might implement it
21:28
@Seggan that would be very cool
@Seggan I think it will make it much faster to answer my question too
22:11
@NewPosts pretty rad(d)

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