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01:00
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Is it true? Ask Pip!
 
4 hours later…
05:01
That's a funky bug. It start with ///, and says there are three slashes. But then it starts using four of them.
Also, has anyone played with getting ChatGPT to write Brainfuck?
05:15
06:04
lol
i remember someone asked for hello world in brainfuck a few times and it was always a bit wrong a different way every time
@AviFS not brainfuck, but vyxal
@UnrelatedString Yeah, I asked for Collatz Conjecture and it gave me the hello world program slightly modified, haha.
Also, it told me that Retina is an esolang invented by a guy called Hume, haha
in The Edge of Propinquity, Oct 11 at 15:33, by Seggan
Shortest Brainfunck Hello World program:



+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[
Also
in Off-Topic TNB, Dec 4 at 13:14, by lyxal
`>+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-]
<.>+++++++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.--------.+++.------.--------.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-]
<+.[-]++++++++++.` is hello world in bf right?
If you run that, you get: @]ddg World!
lmao
06:18
@AviFS The "The Edge of Propinquity" room might be of interest to you
It knows Dyalog APL, though.
Ooh, sorry. I'll go over there.
@AviFS no, not really :p
I figured there was probably a better place.
@AviFS no no I'm saying that's where you can find some of our other experiments with it
@lyxal Oh, well it got Collatz!
@lyxal I know! But I did think it was out of hand for me to post them all here.
06:20
Doesn't matter, the occasional "haha look at this thing chatgpt said" is fine it's just longer discussions and experiments that should be discussed there
 
1 hour later…
07:34
@RadvylfPrograms very smart!
07:47
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

l4m2Given an array of array of array of ..., convert it into a string. Brackets should be used to show depth. However, the input may include loops, which would lead to an infinite output without extra rule. Therefore, if an array has been expanded twice (and is trying to expand third time), it should...

 
1 hour later…
09:09
hello all!
hello world!
09:29
how things??
Delicious, although the doughnut season is over.
sad :(
I got an extra day of Chanukah because that is when all my family could get together
I recommend it :)
We just took down the decorations and packed away the menorahs this morning…
us too...
question.. is a chanukiah in the set of menorahs?
Yes.
09:42
thank you. And is the subset of menorahs with 9 candle holders the same as the set of chanukiahs?
No. A Chanukah menorah is a menorah (candelabra) that is specifically designed to fulfil the rabbinical commandment of lighting Chanukah lights, thus requiring 8 regular lights and 1 higher light. But a menorah could have 9 lights in a different pattern, that would be ill suited for the commandment.
Oh and "Chanukiah" is simply "Chanukah menorah" in Modern Hebrew. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ultra-orthodox use the modern name.
ah ok thanks. I am a little confused by this quote: "The Hebrew Bible states that God revealed the design for the menorah to Moses and describes the construction of the menorah as follows:[3]

31Make a lampstand of pure gold. Hammer out its base and shaft, and make its flowerlike cups, buds and blossoms of one piece with them. 32Six branches are to extend from the sides of the lampstand—three on one side and three on the other. 33Three cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms are to be on one branch, three on the next branch, and the same for all six branches extending from th
The menorah (; Hebrew: מְנוֹרָה mənōrā, Hebrew pronunciation: [menoˈʁa]) is a seven-branched candelabrum that is described in the Hebrew Bible as having been used in the Tabernacle and in the Temple in Jerusalem. Since antiquity, it has served as a symbol of the Jewish people and Judaism in both the Land of Israel and the Diaspora; it is depicted on the Israeli national emblem. According to the Hebrew Bible, the menorah was made out of pure gold, and the only source of fuel that was allowed to be used to light the lamps was fresh olive oil. Biblical tradition holds that Solomon's Temple was home...
which seems to say that a temple menorah always has 7 lights
That is correct. The 7 lights of the temple menorah have no direct connection to the 8 lights of the Chanukah menorah.
right
but you mentioned that a menorah could have (8+1) lights and not be a chanukiah. Do such things have any purpose at all?
"Menorah" is just Hebrew for "candelabra", and could support any number of lights, for spreading cosiness, etc. but not having any religious purpose.
09:48
thanks that is very helpful!
hygge :)
(as the danes might say)
Wait, you speak Danish too?
a teeny bit
How comes? (I'm Danish, btw.)
I spent half a year in Aarhus/Copenhagen
We should have met up IRL when I lived in London!
09:50
that would have been great!
I'll be back occasionally. I'm going in February, but only for a couple of days, and going straight from Gatwick to Basingstoke and back.
that's cool.
I am distracted as I have just discovered the Riemann R function :)
now I think we should have a challenge about it!
10:10
Would codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/61115/… as a challenge be interesting? Make a language "almost" unusable
63
Q: Make your language *mostly* unusable! (Cops' thread)

DJMcMayhemInspired by this comment... Thanks to users Step Hen, Wheat-Wizard, and Dennis for helping my solidify the specification of this challenge before posting it! This is the Cops' thread. For the Robbers' thread, go here In this challenge, you are tasked with running some code that makes it so t...

11:03
CMC compute the Riemann R function for x = 10 and x = 100
lol, I don't even know what "li" means.
In mathematics, the logarithmic integral function or integral logarithm li(x) is a special function. It is relevant in problems of physics and has number theoretic significance. In particular, according to the prime number theorem, it is a very good approximation to the prime-counting function, which is defined as the number of prime numbers less than or equal to a given value x {\displaystyle x} . == Integral representation == The logarithmic integral has an integral representation defined for all positive real numbers x ≠ 1 by the definite integral...
11:19
@Adám I hope that makes sense
11:39
0
Q: Implement the Riemann R function

SimdThe Riemann R function is as follows: $$R (x)=\sum _{n=1}^{\infty } \frac{\mu (n) \text{li}\left(x^{1/n}\right)}{n}.$$ This uses the Möbius function as well as the logarithmic integral. From the wikipedia, the Möbius function is defined so that for any positive integer n, μ(n) is the sum of the ...

@Adám I went for it :)
11:51
@Adám I added a note just for you
@Simd Changing the spec after posting… I don't know WL at all. Took a short time to look up the built-in and a very long time to figure out how to call it.
@Adám Surely an APL solution is doable
APL is TC, so yes.
:)
top cat?
What? No, Turing Complete.
11:57
sorry, that was a joke
so, we're definitely in LDW now, right?
given a function whose purpose is to give you the sum of digits of a positive integer, how would you overload it for a) a negative integer, e.g. -123, b) floats, e.g. -1.23, 1e+23, 1e-23
LDW?
language design workshop
I'd just return a negative value for a negative number, and ignore the . for decimal numbers
@Neil thanks
12:08
also, given a similar function that gives you the product of digits of a positive integer, how would you overload it for 0, -12, -1.23, -0.123?
That function doesn't sound very useful, but I'd again ignore the decimal point and any leading 0s. So f(0.123) = 6 and f(-1.23) = -6
@Neil a) negative sum of digits b) ignore the exponent.
@mousetail But what about 102?
@Neil ^
I guess that should return 0
Not sure about 120 though
Right. I need to know what it gives for 102 and 120 before I can decide what it should give for floats.
> function whose purpose is to give you the sum of digits of a positive integer
it'd give 3
12:16
8 mins ago, by Neil
also, given a similar function that gives you the product of digits of a positive integer, how would you overload it for 0, -12, -1.23, -0.123?
oh product
0
so 0, -2, -6, 6
but like mousetail said, product of digits isn't that useful. It only gets used in about 0.1% of code golf answers when it's a feature
The main issue with product of digits is there are many variantions depending on how you deal with 0s. Even if it was good it's fragmented
depending on how you deal with 0s? If a 0 in a number doesn't make the product 0, then it's not true product of digits
I mean mostly leading or trainling zeros but you want to ignore all 0s
Why isn't @Neil responding? We need clarity. Stat.
13:16
@Adám it gives 0 for 102 and 120
@Adám (sorry I was watching TV)
@Neil OK, then I'd strip decimal point, leading and and trailing 0s, and exponent.
(shame that only g format automatically strips trailing 0s)
13:52
@Adám although I can't seem to see what your suggestion for 0 is (can be different for integer and float if you so wish)
won't be able to promptly answer any questions unfortunately
@Neil For sum,0 should give 0 and product should give 1.
 
1 hour later…
14:55
ok so
after a nontrivial amount of work, I have converted my Raspberry Pi to use Cinnamon instead of LXDE
and all I can think is "why the hell didn't I do this earlier"
here's how it used to look:
and here's how it looks now:
it's literally night and day :p
 
2 hours later…
16:36
LDQ: In a language with Python-2-style ints, where there's a finite-size int type and a bigint long type, should the int type be 32b, 64b, 128b, or word-size/architecture dependent?
Word-size would make sense for things like array indices and stuff (e.g., that's the main place Rust uses usizes), and it would probably be the fastest option, but having an architecture-dependent maximum int size feels like it would be a bad idea
Maybe I could do a int_fast32_t sorta thing where you're guaranteed it's at least an i32, but shouldn't rely on overflow behavior since it could also be an i64/isize
Or...maybe I should just let the coder choose and have Rust-style i8/u32/usize sorta names and then throw in a custom long/bigint primitive type
16:58
this is CGCC, choose the most confusing option
Do y'all prefer [i64] or i64[] as the type name for an array of ints?
the last one
Advantage of i64[] is that you can also specify a fixed size by doing i64[size], but the first looks nicer IMO
17:19
@RadvylfPrograms [i64] for sure, since it matches the syntax of generic types
I always start thinking "I need a array" only then do I think what type needs to be in the array
I guess there's always the option of [type; size] for arrays using that syntax with sizes
Like Rust does
anyone know of any lightweight Python IDEs? IDLE doesn't play nice with dark mode and I need it to develop Klein
kate?
link?
17:27
hmmm
I just use it because it's the default on KDE but it's pretty good if you use a language server
looks awful with my theme
nope sorry
The most important part of every editor
exactly
Whoa if Ginger's calling something ugly is must be seriously bad :p
17:29
@RadvylfPrograms ;-;
here, lemme show you what I mean:
17:43
@Ginger that thonny IDE that was on me raspberry pi
@Ginger Why don't you set it to dark mode?
17:59
@RadvylfPrograms here's something for you: Klein dark mode
How does the actual editor part of klein look like?
leak plz
Where'd you get the icons from? Are they hand-picked SVGs you found online or from some set?
@Adám thanks
18:43
@Ginger You have to set the icon to a Klein-bottle.
18:57
^
19:08
^
Fancy tabs
Evening all
@RadvylfPrograms what language did you do the computation in?
19:30
Afternoon
I just realized your username is that instruction thing and not just your real name or something
20:07
@RadvylfPrograms I am interested if it's right.
20:49
time to clean up my programming folder :P
I mean depending on what drive you've got, you could have room for 13k more programming folders :p
And that's not even taking RAID into account, the Fractal Meshify 2 has room for 14 HDDs IIRC, so you could have room for over 160 thousand programming folders :p
(since disk space is obviously what constraints human creative throughput)
thats actually just my java + kotlin folder :P
Well with the 14×22 TB setup, you'd be able to fit at minimum a compiled Rust executable, possibly even two. Perfect system upgrade if you want to switch away from boring old Kotlin
(seriously though why are compiled Rust programs so bigggg)
@RadvylfPrograms kotlin is not boring
Oh uh oh I need to leave for work in half an hour and my room's an even bigger mess than it was yesterday
21:00
@RadvylfPrograms Monomorphization?
21:16
Suppose we choose two random subsets A, B of {1,2,...,n} independently and uniformly at random. What is the probability that A ⊆ B?
(3/4)^n?
Possibly sum(prob((x in A and x in B) or (x not in A)) for x in 1..n)
Which might be sum(1/4 + 1/2 for x in 1..n) = 3/4 * n
I wanna try this in MATLAB but I don't know any MATLAB :(
 
2 hours later…
23:29
Is TNB slower than it was a few months ago?
I think the holiday season takes its toll. But that's ok.
@Adám Ah, fair point.
By the way, is it worth noting on your Twitter Poll that "Array Cast" is already the name of the other podcast? I was considering leaving a comment.
Why is that noteworthy?
@pxeger Would you mind updating Charcoal on ATO to 10a42f2e860a23aeed737428cc32275ee632f7cc?
@Adám Just because the name "APL Cast" is so similar.
23:41
Which is… good? bad?

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