The Nineteenth Byte

Steffan

00:18

it does work

it's what i'm doing

DialFrost

00:33

nvm i changed ur answer to make it work

Unrelated String

00:48

@Ginger i have 10 pinned tabs

sometimes they all auto refresh at once

it can hurt

DialFrost

@UnrelatedString how many overall tabs? :3

Unrelated String

in this window? 111

DialFrost

@UnrelatedString sus

DialFrost

01:25

@Steffan howd u get 37 bytes julia phi?

lyxal

01:57

woah new github code search and code view looking quite nice

(an aside: it's beta access only: github.com/features/code-search)

ooh they also have code folding in file views now

left is without code viewer, right is with code viewer

null

02:16

Do GolfScript actually have a chance to beat J?

caird coinheringaahing

02:32

Yeah, golfscript has beaten J a few times before

Hello, World!

0

A: "Hello, World!"

ELF (x86/x64, Linux), 86 bytes 00000000: 7f45 4c46 b001 b20e 488d 3539 0000 003d .ELF....H.59...= 00000010: 0200 3e00 89c7 eb18 0100 0000 0500 0000 ..>............. 00000020: 1800 0000 0000 0000 1800 0000 0500 0000 ................ 00000030: 0f05 29d0 973d 3800 0100 b03c 0f05 0000 ..)..=8....<...

Steffan

02:53

@DialFrost i type code into box and it work

idk

DialFrost

wut

hint?lol

Steffan

i just pass a specific number to BigFloat to get it to give 1000 decimal places

wait you don't even have a solution

julia has a builtin for all the constants on code.golf

MathConstants.φ in this case

@JoKing trivially?

DialFrost

@Steffan lol

@Steffan how?

i alr have 33 without putting to 1000 places

:/

Steffan

To save you the brute-force, the precision number is 3320 IIRC

I just bruteforced numbers until it gave 1000 digits

I don't know how it works internally

DialFrost

@Steffan hehe wut

Steffan

02:59

i have no idea

i wish it just let you pass in 1000 and not 3320

Radvylf Programs

Looks like 3320 is the number of binary digits to represent 1000 decimal digits

log(10) / log(2) ~~ 3.322

Steffan

Interesting

Radvylf Programs

Which if a BigFloat is...a big float, that's exactly how it'd store the number, as a specific number of bits, rather than with base 10

Steffan

Ah, makes sense

Radvylf Programs

Haven't been paying attention so I don't know what language this is, but might be worth checking for a BigDecimal library/builtin

Steffan

03:02

Julia

There are libraries but not builtin

github.com/JuliaMath/Decimals.jl

DialFrost

@Steffan heres tha problem, i dont know how to apply it :P

which is why im stuck on all the math problems

welp

Steffan

BigFloat(number,precision)

However, phi is the only one where you can just print it out, on the rest, you have to use a preciison like 3322 and then chop the last character off

DialFrost

oh

@Steffan 3320*

@Steffan ? i got 38 bytes lmao

@Steffan also why doesnt this work? print(BigFloat(MathConstants.e,3320))

Steffan

03:36

use show instead of print to save a byte

@DialFrost it depends on the hole

im using 3322 for some

@DialFrost i just explained that, also MathConstants.e can be ℯ

the precision isn't exact so you have to chop off the last character

for e, i'm using 3324 instead of 3320

DialFrost

@Steffan WAIT THATS A THING

@Steffan how lol

chop?

Steffan

yeah

chop("$(BigFloat(...))")

It doesn't seem to be the optimal way

But idk how the optimla way works

DialFrost

@Steffan but that leaves the number as a string lol

Steffan

yeah

so you have to use print, not show

shouldn't be a problem

DialFrost

04:11

ah

tysm

@Steffan so its somehow using another way to get rid of the last char?

DialFrost

04:48

I finally beat @JoKing at something in code golf yay!

Jo King

now get a diamond

DialFrost

@JoKing :(

Jo King

@Steffan literally just one byte

DialFrost

@JoKing btw it was lucky numbers, trivial golfs gets me 57

what method did you use for it @JoKing? Did you like remove things from a list?

Jo King

similar to codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/45790/76162, but with del instead of L.remove

DialFrost

04:53

would you mind sharing your code? I owe you hints

or at least the main part (the part where you del and do your printing)

Jo King

The inside of the loop looks like print(r);r+=r<2;del L[r-1::r]

feel free to give me something suitably vague

Jo King

05:08

wow i forgot about the lead i had in raku for that hole

DialFrost

@JoKing lol

@JoKing did you have to set r to 0 intially?

or something

Jo King

same as the linked answer, just for r in L:

DialFrost

you know what can you send ur whole code lmao (unless you dont want to thats also fine)

Jo King

05:26

i prefer not to post full solutions publicly, even if they're suboptimal

DialFrost

oh ok

@JoKing this should get you 57

DialFrost

05:46

anyone know how to perform this in julia del l[v&~1::v or 2]?

Newly Featured Posts

07:35

36

Q: 50 digits of π in HQ0-9+-INCOMPUTABLE?

Background HQ0-9+-INCOMPUTABLE?! is a half-joke programming language introduced in Internet Problem Solving Contest 2011, Problem H. HQ9+ is an esoteric programming language specialized for certain tasks. For example, printing “Hello, world!” or writing a quine (a program that prints itself) cou...

code-challenge

DialFrost

08:32

@JoKing you got 57! nice

DialFrost

09:02

why doesnt this work in julia? im not sure how to fix it

n=0
while n<50
print(n);n=n+2^-(n+2^n)%3
end

emanresu A

09:20

Probably negative modulo behaviour / precedence

DialFrost

09:37

yup i fixed it

anyone can shorten?

n=0
while n<50 println(n);global n=n+2⊻mod(-(n+2⊻n),3)end

DialFrost

10:57

anyone? :/

Jo King

11:12

@DialFrost i assume you can just split with an empty string as the delimiter?

DialFrost

@JoKing idk

parse is also a problem

Jo King

looks like you need to specify the type, e.g. parse.(Int64,split("124",""))

DialFrost

@JoKing ru shayan?

Jo King

no, interesting they used basically the same example

maybe they have the same keyboard layout as me lol

DialFrost

lol

could be someone currently in this room

Jo King

11:21

Mar 27 at 9:59, by Jo King

speaking of one hand, i've been trying to design a one handed keyboard layout. How nerdy is it to make the number row the keys 1248, where you can combine them in a binary fashion for the missing numbers

this is why my examples tend to be 12480, coz that's the order the keys are in

graffe

hello all

I am very impressed how much faster Julia seems to be than everything else for my challenge

PyGamer0

@JoKing so your design is done?

Jo King

no, i haven't made time to work on it so i'm stuck with a sub-optimal layout

PyGamer0

oh

Adám

11:38

@JoKing 0 how?

Jo King

that's the fifth key

i use it as a modifier for +-_= with the other keys

mousetail

12:18

So LDW?

UndoneStudios

@graffe I'm surprised Python is the slowest of them all

even after using @lyxal's approach

And I mean vanilla CPython

mousetail

@UndoneStudios Interpreted languages are always going to be slow

Though your algorithm is also very naive

You should be able to match vyxal is properly optimized

Since vixal is based on python

UndoneStudios

12:47

argh

UndoneStudios

13:03

so pypy is compiled?

mousetail

13:15

No, I'm not sure how it's faster than C++

Probably since it uses multiprocessing

So actual speed per code is more like in the 200 range

Ginger

pypy is magic

PyGamer0

13:37

@UndoneStudios ~~that is precisely why i am trying to learn rust~~

DialFrost

14:01

@Steffan how is 36 bytes fibonacci possible python?

Radvylf Programs

So you're saying you suspect it's a fibbernacci

PyGamer0

14:22

did we like

forget LDW or something

Seggan

Welcome to the Twelfth Language Design Workshop! The general premise is that you can post work you've done or are doing on esolangs and people will give feedback. In short, you'll get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, try out WIP languages, and hopefully get ideas over the next 24 hours.

5

@RadvylfPrograms

ty

Ginger

15:30

would someone mind coming up with a little story blurb for this?

Seggan

that links to the q

Ginger

whoops

*this?

Seggan

> I have neatly arranged my presents in a heap, but Billy opened the root present first! I need your help to rebuild the heap.

something to that effect

mousetail

@Ginger Santa, in his midlife crisis, has bought a sportssled. Unfortunately it has limited cargo space. By magic there is no height limit but the footprint needs to be as small as possible to fit

Seggan

that ones much better :p

i love how we generally dont like backstories (we, not me; i love backstories), but you cant have an cgac challenge without one

mousetail

15:44

I like backstories

Just not excessively long ones

Or when the challenge is overly complex to fit the story better

Radvylf Programs

15:54

Backstories do add some variety

But yeah people go overboard a lot and then they get in the way of the actual challenge

Ginger

good thing I asked yall then :p

@mousetail I like this but I'm not sure it actually makes sense with the challenge

mousetail

16:12

Yea I can't really think if any in universe reason why less packages couln't be stacked on more packages

Radvylf Programs

Because Santa's not gonna dig around for ages under a few big things to find Jimmy's new USB-C cable or whatever

Ginger

~~can't santa just like summon the presents into his hand?~~

Seggan

/summon Santa present

mousetail

If santa was omnipotent the entire advent calendar would be redundant

Ginger

Did you mean: "redundant"?

mousetail

16:17

i cent spelll

Ginger

don't you have spellcheck?

mousetail

Yes but it takes a while

I type way faster than it

graffe

16:28

How can I compile codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/254602/108721 ? I get

g++ -lgmp -lpthread jdt.cpp
/usr/bin/ld: /tmp/ccoEslnw.o: in function `calcPrimes(int)':
jdt.cpp:(.text+0x118): undefined reference to `__gmpz_init_set_str'
/usr/bin/ld: jdt.cpp:(.text+0x12c): undefined reference to `__gmpz_probab_prime_p'

Seggan

you dont have gmp prob

graffe

argh stupid g++

you have to put -lgmp after the file you are compiling

caird coinheringaahing

looks like SE finally killed the HNQ on the app :/

Ginger

F

Seggan

theres an app?

caird coinheringaahing

16:36

There was an app :P

You cannot download it anymore, and they're slowly killing it off

79

Q: Mobile app infrastructure being decommissioned

Beginning immediately, you should know that we have begun decommissioning the remaining infrastructure connected to our mobile apps. As you may know, our mobile apps have been unavailable on the Google Play and iOS App Store for quite some time. Those of you that still had the apps installed on y...

discussion android-app ios-app announcements

Seggan

hm

caird coinheringaahing

Now that HNQ is dead, notifications don't actually come through, mod stuff never worked, and it errors when I try to actually interact in any way, I think I'll delete the app soon :P

mousetail

There are probably third party apps

Ginger

none that have push notifications!

mousetail

WTF codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25327/91213

Ginger

16:51

ಠ_ಠ

flagged as VLQ

Radvylf Programs

I actually think he makes a great point about tell exchangenoob stackotherwise

Ginger

I've screenshotted that so I can remember it forever

caird coinheringaahing

I... genuinely am not sure how to handle that post

Radvylf Programs

:o there's more

caird coinheringaahing

Please don't go investigating into a user's post history and show it publicly here

mousetail

16:54

I think he's genuinly responding to answer the question, but it's impossible to tell what his point is

Ginger

my favorite part was where Ayer AGG'TDd'E-A went "it's elsewherestackwise tell exchangenoob stackotherwise time" and elsewherestackwise tell exchangenoob stackotherwised all over those guys

Radvylf Programs

It's like one of the 2015 GolfScript haters fell in a paper shredder which was shoveled into a markov chain

No way this isn't a bot

mousetail

@RadvylfPrograms Very likely

Wait is this Ginger's bot? /s

Ginger

this is like an indonesian gambling spambot got retrained on CGCC buzzwords and then snorted a pound of coke

@mousetail no, this transcends my humor capacity

caird coinheringaahing

@Ginger Enjoy the free helpful flag, you happened to flag it as I was writing my comment :P

Ginger

16:57

Are your teenagers osmotically acquiring biases toward the PRIMARY-MAINSTREAM-WORLDSTANDARD code-look/syntax? Click here to find out!

5

@cairdcoinheringaahing :p

Seggan

@Ginger whats vlq

Ginger

@Seggan very low quality

I want to know what this person thinks about the popcon problem :b

Seggan

ah

Radvylf Programs

We don't know Ayer AGG'TDd'E-A's gender

mousetail

@UndoneStudios As expected C++ outperforms everything else by far if optimized

Seggan

17:04

rust may be faster

also im planning to refit my kotlin to use gmp

mousetail

Yea rust and C are on the same level

Radvylf Programs

Rust is kinda just C++ with guardrails right

mousetail

It's like C++ if everything is a UniquePtr

Somtimes you have to use unsafe {} for speed though in rust

Seggan

its kinda weird

the language adverts itself as safe, but then allows you to write unsafe code just by using a keyword

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, because sometimes Rust's safety gets in the way of performance or being able to do something in the first place

Rust makes safety the default, no language can ever make safety mandatory

mousetail

17:11

Sometimes pointer arithmetic is just the fastest way to do something, this can't possibly be made safe

Steffan

@DialFrost it's pretty trivial

Radvylf Programs

Since too much safety typically forces you to do weird things to evade the compiler, which still lets you make bugs, but makes them logic bugs instead of compiler-noticeable bugs

mousetail

Rust has a lot of great features for avoiding logic bugs too though, like the enums and newtypes

Though only if you use them properly

Steffan

@DialFrost Int.([s...]).-48 is the shortest way I think

@DialFrost Try a recursive approach

Also, (n+2⊻n)÷2%3 instead of mod

Should get you 46 bytes

Unrelated String

17:32

@Seggan opt-out safety isn't much less safe than mandatory safety; unsafe is basically three pop-up dialog boxes asking if you're sure you know what you're doing and a big danger tape fence around the code that's probably at fault if something goes wrong :P

mousetail

18:09

@UnrelatedString Especially since most unsafe functions have scary sounding names

Ginger

18:59

thank you MediaWiki, very cool

Seggan

19:29

LDQ: should I add a type for a never-returning function?

i.e. Kotlin's Nothing, Rust's !

Radvylf Programs

Why not

Lets you detect unreachable code

Unrelated String

19:47

^

Ginger

^

Radvylf Programs

Not to be confused with "lets you reach undetectable code" which would be a really cool concept for a language

Seggan

hmm, on that topic, should unreachable code be a warning or error?

i mean, error is certainly more annoying but at least it gives the programmer incentive

Radvylf Programs

Warning

When I'm debugging code, making something unreachable with an early return or something is an easy way to skip what I don't care about

@Seggan "Incentive" to do...what? You don't need to "incentivize" the developer to fix their own code, just politely let them know it's probably broken

Seggan

true lol

emanresu A

20:00

^^

Jo King

20:19

Raku has this annoying quirk of triggering an error for valid code that looks like it might be Perl 5 code

Seggan

...

what

how

Jo King

for example $a=~$a is code that stringifies a variable and assigns it back to itself, but =~ is an operator in Perl, so it throws an error

you want to index into a array with ++$, e.g. @a[++$]? sorry, $] isn't a thing in Raku (why are you telling me this)

emanresu A

why

Seggan

@JoKing does it basically say ThisIsRakuNotPerl5Error or is it just invalid syntax

Jo King

see this 5 year old issue github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1356

@Seggan it is entirely valid, it just pulls an error because it has some special case in the compiler for an operator that doesn't exist

Seggan

20:30

weird

> It's not just the variables either. I never wrote C++ in my life, yet the compiler blocks me from using perfectly valid Perl 6 code:

$ perl6 -e 'my $stuff := new class { }:'
===SORRY!=== Error while compiling -e
Unsupported use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax
at -e:1
------> my $stuff := new class ⏏{ }

its basically saying "this is not c++ duh" lmao

Radvylf Programs

Perl: Power to the programmer, who is also in our opinion too stupid to realize which language they're using

7

Seggan

20:50

> Number 2 and string "2" are 99% same, except when they aren't.

dev.to/taw/languages-speedrun-episode-26-raku-perl-6-4emf

@RadvylfPrograms tbf, i have attempted to use braces in python a few times :P

Jo King

@Seggan they don't seem to realise ~~ is a thing

(not that that helps with string numbers)

ah wait, they bring it up later, but think it's the same as =~

Seggan

hmm, if x == 1 | 2 | 3 looks like some really nice feature i could steal for Rol

Radvylf Programs

I've always wanted something like that

Usually in JS I resort to [1, 2, 3].includes(x)

Seggan

i just use ors

Radvylf Programs

Yeah I do too, for up to like two or three, but for like a dozen, not doing that

Seggan

21:02

same :P

Ginger

@Seggan ah yes, new class [[Please eject the disc.]]

Seggan

sadly in Rol | is bitwise or, so ill have to find some other way...

Ginger

@Seggan how about if x in [1, 2, 3] like python?

Seggan

hmm

Ginger

~~or if x == 1 \ 2 \ 3~~

Radvylf Programs

21:05

@Ginger That's no different from [1, 2, 3].includes(x) in JS

It's not a special comparison syntax

Ginger

oh right :p

Seggan

@Ginger :eyes:

Ginger

@Seggan or if you have a "splat" operator like in python you could do if x == *[1, 2, 3]

which would also allow other logic operators

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger A good complerpreter would optimize that into ors though, so not a bad idea

Seggan

yeah twas i was thinking

Radvylf Programs

21:07

@Ginger Not a bad idea honestly, \ being unused outside of strings is kinda dumb

Ginger

^ I think \ needs more love :p

Radvylf Programs

rSNBATWPL uses it for fraction float literals :p

Seggan

^^

^^^^

Ginger

also: ~ needs uses besides not or whatever it's normally used for

I like ~, it's cool

Jo King

@Ginger Basic uses it for integer division, which isn't too bad

Seggan

21:09

@JoKing i prefer //

Ginger

^

// feels like / but with more... emphasis

Seggan

as if ure really trying to floor the number

Ginger

^

Radvylf Programs

I prefer ÷ :p

Ginger

ಠ_ಠ

@Seggan don't go getting any ideas now

~~so if you use the backslash syntax will you credit me in the credits()?~~

Jo King

21:12

@Ginger It's at least thematically appropriate, or if you don't like two character operators

my big problem with it is that it has a different precedence to /*

Radvylf Programs

\ should be the logarithm operator

Seggan

@Ginger ~~i wont have credits()~~

Radvylf Programs

3 \ 2 is log_2(3)

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms ~~just use v~~

Jo King

and as a prefix for ln?

Ginger

21:14

log should be ~

Unrelated String

@RadvylfPrograms haskell uses it for lambdas :P

Ginger

so like 3 ~ 2 or 3 ~e (note the absence of a space)

Radvylf Programs

That makes a lot of sense actually, it looks more like a lambda than anything else in ASCII

@Ginger Why the absence of a space?

Just make ~x ln(x), like JoKing said

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms because otherwise it could be interpreted as 2 log (some variable e)

Radvylf Programs

Exactly

Making ~e its own operator is ambiguous and ugly

Ginger

21:16

yeah, fair

Radvylf Programs

Just make it a unary operator, and/or have e the constant easily accessible

You're basically saying e following ~ should be special cased as its own operator, having identifiers as part of operators is really weird

Ginger

and also please add a unary ! operator, not having that is in my top 10 most disliked python features

@RadvylfPrograms well, if the lang doesn't have implicit multiplication for identifiers separated by spaces 2 e~ is less ambiguous but looks even worse

~2 is fine

Radvylf Programs

Or just 2 ~ E and have E imported by default

Jo King

bitwise not and bitwise xor should be the same character, change my mind

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms ಠ_ಠ

I may be stupid.

Radvylf Programs

21:19

What do you mean ಠ_ಠ, how's having Math.E aliased to E in a language with a one-char logarithm operator at all weird

Ooh cursed language idea: everything is imported by default, you need to unimport libraries you don't want in scope

Ginger

ಠ_ಠ

@RadvylfPrograms oh, I thought you meant E would just be like a module by itself so you could do import E :b

Radvylf Programs

Well nobody said it wouldn't be :p

The leftpad approach to standard library design

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms finally, a language which allows me to have 200 lines of (un)?imports at the top for a reason

even worse idea: 1984, a language where all programs get sent to the developers by the interpreter and have to be approved before they can run

actually I think radvylf could have a field day designing an authentication system for that language d:

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms on that topic, yall think that in addition to packages that can be imported, i can have namepsaces that are required to be FQ'ed?

Ginger

flying quiche'd?

Seggan

21:30

fully qualified

Radvylf Programs

Like, Java-style net.minecraft.xyz?

Not a fan

Not a fan at all

Ginger

@Seggan more details please

Seggan

@Ginger say i have a function foo in package bar

Ginger

mhm

Seggan

i can write bar/foo(), or i can import bar; foo()

Ginger

21:35

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

what

Seggan

but if i stuck foo in a namespace spam, i now have to either bar/spam.foo() or import bar; spam.foo()

@Ginger thats how it works now

Ginger

I am very, very confused

you're telling me that you can import packages and then refer to the contents without the package name???

Seggan

yeah

Ginger

like from bar import * in python???

Seggan

yep

Ginger

21:37

THAT IS VERY BAD

Seggan

thats how it works in java :P

Ginger

>:(((((

that is an awful feature

- ambiguity if two packages have identical things
- what package did this come from??? hell if I know
- autocomplete? never heard of it
- bad messy code

in summary: please do not do that for the love of PHP

Seggan

welcome to the JVM way :P

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms please convince them that this plan is insane and disgusting

Seggan

imo its stupid that you have to import a package and then still fq it to use it

Ginger

21:40

did you not read the list of reasons for that above

Seggan

somehow java does it /shrug

oh wait, i just described my imports wrong

you have to import bar/foo; foo()

wait i forgot which slash i use

hrm maybe i should switch to :: like rust

Ginger

just use . like a sane person

Seggan

its too ambigous

Ginger

somehow python does it /shrug

Seggan

ik

but idk how to implement it

Ginger

21:47

unambiguously

Seggan

how will it know whether foo.bar.baz is a baz in foo.bar or a baz on bar in foo

Neil

@graffe not g++'s fault, it's how linking works by design

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