The Nineteenth Byte

Radvylf Programs

00:00

But anyway I probably wouldn't use that approach, so no need to worry too much about it

I agree it is probably a bad idea to fetch dependencies independently of the OS package manager

Thanks chat

I love how it only lets you send duplicate messages when you didn't intend to

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms because then waterjet can't, say, manage versions for multiple packages or auto-install critical security fixes or even tell the user "hey you have this package installed"! python packages are black boxes and it pissed me off so much I invented waterjet!

I already wrote multiple paragraphs about how python packages are very bad!

lemme find it rq

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger How would managing the versions of a Tundra program's dependencies work? You'd need to either update the whole thing, in which case there's no issue, or do all of the same things Taiga does, like tree-shaking and figuring out which dependencies will work with the original program, which is reinventing the wheel in a pretty problematic way

Ginger

On Python packages

Oct 19 at 14:14, 7 minutes total – 32 messages, 5 users, 4 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms okay, maybe not that part

it mostly boils down to "I hate black boxes" tbh

Radvylf Programs

Black boxes are good, you just want to do really cursed stuff

Ginger

and that may not be your philosophy, which is fine, but it's mine and it's what I'm designing waterjet around

@RadvylfPrograms true

Radvylf Programs

00:05

What is your issue with packages being "black boxes" exactly

Ginger

I can't do cursed stuff if they are

Radvylf Programs

(and btw with Taiga the concept of a "package" won't really exist, but that's a thing for another time)

@Ginger Well like, what changes and what can you not do that you could if there was some tihng that made it not a black box in some way

Ginger

good question! just a second while I answer it

Radvylf Programs

During that second I'mma go eat food brb

I expect a 1k word manifesto against abstractions in package managers, ending in unintelligible zalgo and extreme profanity

Ginger

oh don't you worry, I've got you covered

Sʨɠɠan

00:10

@Ginger ummm

how does that work

@Ginger are you telling me you have to distribute python source files and they have to run pip themselves???

Ginger

ok we're at 200 words

@Sʨɠɠan not quite, see the linked convo for the full rant

Sʨɠɠan

im lucky i hate python so i dont have to deal with its package manager

Ginger

python is great, it's just the packages that suck

they're my least favorite part about it

hyper-neutrino

00:28

@Ginger are you working on one right now? if not I can post one shortly

we should have a meta post for it

Unrelated String

i thought you were irrationally mad about something not being sufficiently transparent or something but then i actually read the bookmarked convo and what the fuck

Ginger

@UnrelatedString exactly

@hyper-neutrino yea I'm working on one

will be posted soon

hyper-neutrino

alright thanks

Ginger

np np

Unrelated String

also ~~hyper being here reminds me~~ how bad is it that every time radvylf mentions his praclang being tundra with a package manager named taiga, before thinking "oh they're both cold climates", i think ｔｓｕｎｄｅｒｅ

Ginger

00:34

I'd expect nothing less from someone with an anime pfp /j

Unrelated String

because of the tundra pun in bakemonogatari
and i haven't seen toradora but its iconic tsundere lead happens to be named taiga

Sʨɠɠan

randomly found this

Ginger

lmao

Unrelated String

LMAO

Ginger

0

Q: What do we rename Advent of Code Golf?

Recently, Sʨɠɠan recived an email from Eric Wastl, the owner of Advent of Code, part of which is quoted below: Please do not call your event something like "Advent of Code Golf"; this makes it look like an official Advent of Code event. "Advent of Code" is a registered trademark in the United St...

Radvylf Programs

00:44

@Ginger Whoa are you still not finished?

It's worse than I thought

Ginger

eh?

Radvylf Programs

Oops wrong reply

Ginger

(also I'm still typing the answer, was delayed by the meta post :p)

we're at 377 words

Feeds

1

Q: What do we rename Advent of Code Golf?

Recently, Sʨɠɠan recived an email from Eric Wastl, the owner of Advent of Code, part of which is quoted below: Please do not call your event something like "Advent of Code Golf"; this makes it look like an official Advent of Code event. "Advent of Code" is a registered trademark in the United St...

discussion code-golf advent-of-code

Sʨɠɠan

@RadvylfPrograms i was confused by the ping

Radvylf Programs

00:47

@Ginger Please don't be pressured to actually do any of the things I joked about though, I want to hear your opinions not a shitpost with a vague sense of purpose :p

Ginger

Oh, you misunderstand- these are my opinions I'm typing

Radvylf Programs

okay good

Ginger

and I will deliver a 1k word essay

because if I didn't you might doubt my resolve

514, halfway there :P

caird coinheringaahing

@Feeds Sorry, I'm genuinely confused as to what this is referring to

Ginger

lemme link the message rq

caird coinheringaahing

00:51

I've seen the message

Radvylf Programs

Yeah the post doesn't even link to info about AoCG, most people won't know what that is

caird coinheringaahing

Is this re. the event Bubbler did last year (and are redoing this year), where "we" (being whoever wants to be involved) post 25 original challenges, one per day? Or, is it referring to people reposting AoC challenges here?

Ginger

it refers to the event

thought that was clear

@RadvylfPrograms is a 600 word essay ok? :b

Radvylf Programs

Yes

caird coinheringaahing

Because, if it's referring to the event we run, then, politely, Eric has essentially no say or input into what we call it. It's entirely different from anything he does, aside from it's 1 code related challenge per day in December.

Ginger

00:54

well you can certainly post that as an answer

Radvylf Programs

I'd like to see more of the original request and reply by Wastl

I could easily see him having a false impression of what AoCG is

Ginger

cc @Sʨɠɠan

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, especially as I was under the impression that @Sʨɠɠan was emailing Eric to ask about reposting AoC challenges here

Unrelated String

didn't he already say that's fine on twitter

caird coinheringaahing

yesterday, by Sʨɠɠan

i was asking permission to use AoC challenges in AoCG

Unrelated String

00:56

and then that's probably how he became aware of the unrelated naming issue :P

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, don't do this

AoC is entirely distinct from AoCG. AoCG should be about us posting original challenges from CGCC users. AoC is entirely different from that. As far as I'm aware, Eric has given us permission to post AoC challenges regularly on the site, as normal challenges, but people do not overlap the two things

Sʨɠɠan

in Advent of Code Golf, 24 hours ago, by Sʨɠɠan

> I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, so I'll try to answer a few different situations that might be relevant:

- You can link to the Advent of Code website. You can encourage people to do the puzzles on the Advent of Code website in a specific way, like fewest characters.

- Please do not copy the text of any puzzles and repost them as your own work. Advent of Code content is protected under copyright law.

- Please do not call your event something like "Advent of Code Golf"; this makes it look like an official Advent of Code event. "Advent of Code" is a registered trademark in the Un…

i cant get to my email rn so i cant post what i sent

Radvylf Programs

Did you make it clear that Code Golf is the name of our site? I could see him reading it as "(Advent of Code) Golf"

Sʨɠɠan

@RadvylfPrograms yes

caird coinheringaahing

That said, the original event used old AoC challenges (as in, from the years before)

Sʨɠɠan

00:59

i identified myself as <my name> (Steggan from Code Golf)

caird coinheringaahing

Okay, obviously, those involved can change the name if they want to. That said, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what exactly AoCG is, especially in communicating that to Eric

Furthermore, it appears that, unlike last year, this year's challenges are all original. If that is the case, and none of them are AoC challenges, then Eric has absolutely no claim to force us to change the name. Obviously, again, we can if we want, but it appears to be unnecessary to do so

Radvylf Programs

I understand Eric's concern, but I think that given the context on CGCC, it'll be clear to everyone that it's unaffiliated with AoC

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms ffs my giant paragraph is too coherent to add zalgo text to it and still have it be funny

Unrelated String

rip

Radvylf Programs

Nah just leave it unzalogified

We already know not to parse HTML with regex :p

Ginger

01:06

fiiiiine

DialFrost

@DialFrost anyone? ... :(

Sʨɠɠan

@cairdcoinheringaahing agree

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms okay, here it is

There are lots of reasons why making packages black boxes is bad. A package like the one you've described that uses its setup script to install more dependencies has many problems. Installing extra packages without informing the main package manager what you're doing means that the package manager can't recognize or ascertain important information about the packages. For example, if the extra packages would require more space to install than is available on the computer, the manager can't tell. If the installation requires no network access, there is no way to tell. If the packages require …

and I even got some zalgo in anyway!

Sʨɠɠan

> Every The user

Ginger

(I hope you appreciate it, that's an hour of my life I'm never getting back :p)

@Sʨɠɠan eh, it's fine

Radvylf Programs

01:38

@Ginger You're arguing precisely against packages being black boxes

All of those issues are ones which occur when the inside of the package causes issues which don't fit into the neat abstractions of a black box

Ideally packages would behave as black boxes; the manager doesn't care whatsoever what's inside of them, but can still effectively install, update, and remove the package

Unrelated String

i feel like there's two different perspectives here from which each behavior is more black box :P

Radvylf Programs

You're arguing against the installer-in-the-package thingy, which if it worked as a nice black box wouldn't be an issue. You're arguing that it in fact wouldn't behave as one, and that that's the problem

Unrelated String

which is to say it's just not a useful term here

Radvylf Programs

Yeah I think I agree

Sʨɠɠan

02:01

@DialFrost use blocks

do|x|...end => {|x|...}

if this is why you're asking though, use require'prime'

ruby-doc.org/stdlib-3.1.0/libdoc/prime/rdoc/Prime.html

Unrelated String

02:13

y'all ever just get the feeling that there's something important you felt like doing 5 minutes ago but can't remember what it was

DialFrost

02:23

@Sʨɠɠan I tried it doesnt work

And yes lol

Radvylf Programs

@UnrelatedString I've heard that's a sign you've got brain eating amoeba

Unrelated String

wouldn't be surprised :P

Sʨɠɠan

02:35

@RadvylfPrograms why is this amoeba so popular now

Sʨɠɠan

@DialFrost wdym "doesn't work"

My 32-byte solution uses it

Just do Prime.take(...)

DialFrost

02:52

Oh wait lemme try it again

No clue how to use Prime tho

@Sʨɠɠan ?????

Btw how do I join a list on newlines guys ruby

Sʨɠɠan

03:10

puts on an array will already join on newlines

a*$/ otherwise

@DialFrost Prime.take(30) will give you the first 30 primes

However you can splat arguments into p instead of puts and it will separate them by newlines

so like p *blah

since this is code.golf though, you could join their discord server, there's plenty of people that can help you there

DialFrost

Ah tysm

Sʨɠɠan

nice! you should get 32 by splatting into p

DialFrost

I'm assuming those ppl with 31 bytes didnt use modules?

@Sʨɠɠan I got 34 :/

Wait wait nvm being stupid again

Sʨɠɠan

@DialFrost Yep. I'm pretty sure the 31-byter is using a magic formula instead of prime, but I haven't found it yet.

DialFrost

Hmm

Mkay

Tysm for the help

Sʨɠɠan

03:16

In long prime numbers though, the module is the way to go

You'll just have to use a different method instead of take to avoid putting in a four-digit number.

DialFrost

How do you know that :3

Sʨɠɠan

Because I have the shortest one :P

DialFrost

Different method hmm

Gimme a sec

Sʨɠɠan

Although I only got it a few minutes ago because I only had the idea a few minutes ago

DialFrost

I got it

:3

Little neat trick I learnt from ruby code golf tips page

Sʨɠɠan

03:18

nice!

DialFrost

Hey I'm right below you go check the leaderboards:3

Sʨɠɠan

are you talking about the page on the code.golf wiki or on CGCC? (as far as the tips page)

DialFrost

Cgcc

Sʨɠɠan

Ah

Check out code.golf/wiki

DialFrost

y?

OH DAMNNNN

Sʨɠɠan

03:20

Tons of tips

DialFrost

interesting

not a "ton" of tips it's not a lot ig

Sʨɠɠan

there's many different langs

and also there's "hole specific tips"

DialFrost

how have you used all 45 langs

:o

Sʨɠɠan

because I know them all? :P

a new hole and lang came out today so I've been busy there all day collecting diamonds

DialFrost

@Sʨɠɠan howwww :(

I only know ruby and pyton

thats it

not a single thing about any other lang

Sʨɠɠan

03:23

actually most of them I don't "know", but I can use them

DialFrost

@Sʨɠɠan i cant :/

lucky...

Sʨɠɠan

yeah it takes a while, you have to learn how to just use any given language in general

basically learn how to learn a language

DialFrost

@Sʨɠɠan that takes me too long

Sʨɠɠan

yeah whatever, most people on code.golf don't use many langs

code.golf/golfers/MeWhenI has a solution (almost, missing a few) for every language on every hole

if you click on "holes" tab you can see a table

BTW, if someone wants to move this all to OTNB sure, depends on whether this is off-topic or not

lyxal

It's code golf, the literal definition of this site

It's on topic here

Sʨɠɠan

03:28

it's not CGCC though

lyxal

It's still the general act of golfing code

DialFrost

@lyxal ye

@Sʨɠɠan chill lol

me getting pissed on how much bytes this takes a,b,c,d,x,y,w,h=x.split.map(&:to_i)

btw is there a way to golf functions in ruby like python?

where in pyton you can do m=max which doesnt work in ruby

if you're using max many times

Sʨɠɠan

what hole even is that

no

DialFrost

intersection

@Sʨɠɠan no to wat

Sʨɠɠan

well yes, but no. you could do def f(*a)=max(*a) :P

DialFrost

03:31

shoot

Sʨɠɠan

i haven't touched intersection, don't want to bother with the math

DialFrost

try it!

its honestly not that hard

Sʨɠɠan

also map(&:to_i) => map &:to_i

:P fine

DialFrost

@Sʨɠɠan damn im so dumb

tysm for the 1 byte

Sʨɠɠan

if you don't know already, ARGV.each => $*.map

DialFrost

03:34

yup

I already did that

saw it too on CGCC

@Sʨɠɠan unfortunately it doesnt save enough bytes to compensate for the loss

@Sʨɠɠan wont u lose the diamond if you lose 1st place later on?

Sʨɠɠan

yes

or if someone else gets 1st place

but i might as well publish the solutions to get points anyway

Fine, I sovled it and your solution is shorter. I'm bad at math

DialFrost

03:51

lol

how many bytes did you get?

@Sʨɠɠan didnt u say ur fav subject is math :3

you got 42 bytes for prime pyton WHAT

i have 62 :,(

Sʨɠɠan

remember to use _1 (numbered parameters) btw

@DialFrost lol hardcode

DialFrost

@Sʨɠɠan ?

Codidact Posts

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Connect the corners without 4 in a row

posted on October 30, 2022 by trichoplax‭

Connect opposite corners of a rectangle of characters without putting 4 characters in a row. Input Two numbers, W and H, representing the width and height of the rectang...

Sʨɠɠan

However I have 44 without hardcoding so big deal

New Posts

0

Q: How Mondrian is your fine art collection?

For the purpose of this challenge a rectangular piece of ASCII art is Mondrian if it looks the same upside down. What does "looks the same" mean? A feature is any orthogonally connected region of at last 5 characters. A Mondrian feature is any feature that appears in the same picture upside down....

code-golf ascii-art decision-problem image-processing

DialFrost

03:57

@Sʨɠɠan still dont get it

Sʨɠɠan

Encoding each prime number as a character code, then printing each one out. It's just hardcoding

DialFrost

dont get it still but okey lmao

@Sʨɠɠan character code?

Sʨɠɠan

yes

using a byte-string since they all fit in a byte

DialFrost

how is that possible?

sry i've never used string compression in python b4

Sʨɠɠan

Try it online!

DialFrost

04:03

OH

tysm ill rewrite my solutiin

Sʨɠɠan

Try it online! - tool

DialFrost

Ur too kind ;3

DialFrost

04:17

@Sʨɠɠan *map doesnt work though

@Sʨɠɠan also wdym

DialFrost

05:17

@Sʨɠɠan?

DialFrost

05:27

@Sʨɠɠan [print(x)for x in b'•••••\r•••••%)+/5;=CGIOSYa'] doesnt work lol

att

intersection got talked about here a few months ago or so

actually I don't even know how long ago now

ah june last year

emanresu A

05:51

Bubbler has some bounties for it

Jo King

06:34

@DialFrost you'll need to evaluate it, otherwise it stays lazy

DialFrost

07:14

@JoKing Evaluate?

How lol

Jo King

like *[...],

DialFrost

Er wut?

Jo King

oh wait, that's for map, you're having a different problem

DialFrost

Ru talking about ruby

I want to use the map tho

Jo King

@DialFrost i was talking about this, where the actual issue is that you're using unicode dots instead of unprintables lol

DialFrost

07:17

Oh darn

Why did steffan use map tho

Its shorter it seems

@JoKing but I thot I copied right?

Jo King

i dunno how you got the text that it was being represented with rather than the actual text

DialFrost

I used tio

Then copy paste

And I used steffan tio program

Unless steffan scammed me :D

Nvm

Being very stupid again

Sry

Got it! Yay

@Sʨɠɠan watt how?? Mine is 64 without

DialFrost

09:59

er guys whats wrong with this JS answer

f=(n,i=n)=>n%--i?f(n,i):i==1
for(i=2;i++<100){if(f(i))alert(i);}

im being dumb again and cant find out why

DialFrost

10:26

nvm I fixed it

new qns: why doesnt for(i=2;i++;i<=25){if(f(i))console.log(i);} stop printing once it reaches 25?

nvm

Jo King

10:57

clearly because f(i) keeps returning true for numbers larger than 25 /s

Hello, World!

11:27

0

A: "Hello, World!"

Gaia, 14 bytes “Hello, World! Try it online! Strange that there wasn't a Gaia answer to this challenge yet, given that there's so many answers.

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms well I guess I have shot myself in the foot :p

lyxal

good job gamer.

Ginger

o_o
L_L____|_

I have absolutely no idea what that's supposed to be lol

lyxal

dumbnut

Ginger

¯\_(ಠ_ಠ)_/¯

Sʨɠɠan

12:15

@DialFrost i did

mathcat

this is so confusing i'm done

Ginger

huh?

mathcat

I can't differentiate between Sʨɠɠan and Sʨɠɠan

Ginger

sounds like an issue not an ish-me :p

lyxal

I was going to say it isn't, but it kinda is (sorry :p)

you just gotta know which is actually which

mathcat

12:23

Hmm

lyxal

figure out which icon is which and go from there

mathcat

do you really think I'm going to look at the icons?

lemme code up a neural network real quik

lyxal

@mathcat I mean, that's how you tell them apart

mathcat

fine I surrender

lyxal

good

mousetail

13:12

@Ginger Yes

Ginger

cool!

ok so remember how I said I wanted to make an IDE? well it's going to be called Klein and I'm going to try to start work on it today

@RadvylfPrograms if you make a language server for Tundra then I can add support for it to Klein

mathcat

13:28

Klein as in small?

Ginger

nah, it just sounded cool :p

mathcat

ah well

DialFrost

13:40

anyone wanna check my c++ code to see why it isnt working?

im honestly confused whats going wrong

(its not an error its my program is printing the wrong thing)

dw its a very easy to read program lol

DialFrost

13:58

why does this only print 23?

#include<iostream>
int main(){int x,c,a=1;for(x=2;x<99;x++){for(c=2;c<x;c++){if(x%c<1){a=0;}};if(a){std::cout<<x;};}}

Sʨɠɠan

@DialFrost you set a to 0 and never set it back to 1 again

DialFrost

its not supposed to rt?

OH

now it prints every number from 1 to 100 XD

Sʨɠɠan

you can easily get 100 with some quick golfs:

int x,c,a=1;int main(){for(x=2;x<99;a&&__builtin_printf("%d\n",x),a=1,x++)for(c=2;c<x;c++)a=a&&x%c;}

it can be much shorter though

@DialFrost it works fine if you set a=1 at the end of every iteration.

DialFrost

@Sʨɠɠan w....w...wa...wat???

tysm

@Sʨɠɠan i aint even good at coding in c++ normally without golfing

what does the && mean?

@Sʨɠɠan?

cuz void main(){var a=1,x,c;for(x=0;x<99;x++){for(c=2;c<x;c++){a=a&&x%c;};if(a){print(x);}}} doesnt work for C#

Codidact Posts

17:05

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Sort letters by height

posted on October 30, 2022 by trichoplax‭

Given a sequence of lower case letters, sort them into order of height. Heights The heights of letters are dependent on font, so for this challenge the height order to be used ...

Sʨɠɠan

17:35

@DialFrost logical and

@lyxal but theres a twist...

Sʨɠɠan

18:35

@DialFrost of course that won't work for c#

emanresu A

19:04

SE really wants me to know that I've earned rep

mousetail

Yea I'm confused about why things are bold or not too

Sandbox Posts

19:39

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

You are given 5 integers a,b,c,d,k. Print the maximum value of x+y such that x and y follow these conditions : a<=x<=b c<=y<=d x^y =k Note : '^' sign denotes the XOR operator. Constraints : 0<=a<=b<=pow(10,18) 0<=c<=d<=pow(10,18) 0<=k<=pow(10,18) Note : 'pow(a,b)' denotes a raised to the powe...

emanresu A

22:13

One more vtd plz

lyxal

22:39

@Sʨɠɠan that's why you figure out which icon is which and switch relative to the swap :p

DialFrost

23:39

@Sʨɠɠan welp :(

Ginger

alright so

for some reason the starboard is just... gone for me???

tf is going on

ok, it's back after reloading

but that's not what I wanted to tell yall

I've come up with a design for Klein that I really like

so basically it's similar to replit's ide but much better

so at the top you have a ribbon like in, say, MS Office with buttons for running and saving and stuff

and then the whole rest of the editor is a notebook widget

and there's a button in the notebook tab strip which lets you open "pages" like an editor and repl and shit

so you can open whatever you want

and of course the state of the notebook is per-project and persists across restarts

On Python packages

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