The Nineteenth Byte

12:00 AM

@thejonymyster cc: @AidenChow Yeah, Razetime's solution is the most idiomatic way to pad strings at the moment. (Though I see a couple of small golfs: DSO) Padding builtins are on the new operators TODO list.

Did that send twice for everyone else, or just me?

Aiden Chow

@DLosc sent twice, and i got pinged twice

lyxal

@DLosc se chat will do that sometimes

DLosc

Huh. It said it failed to send, did I want to retry/edit/cancel. I clicked retry and then both of them sent.

@lyxal f

thejonymyster

just uniquify

4

Sʨɠɠan

@DLosc it does that around utc midnight

DLosc

12:05 AM

Ahhhh, makes sense

It was the very witching time of night...

Sʨɠɠan

@DLosc how does pip differentiate between monographs and digraphs?

Aiden Chow

@Sʨɠɠan i could be horribly wrong, but i think if theres an odd number of letters the first one is counted as a monograph, and all the rest r split as digraph

DLosc

@Sʨɠɠan There's an overview in the tutorial, here. If you still have questions after that, I'll answer them.

One of the inspirations for Pip's syntax was the earlier golflang Rebmu, whose parser separates runs of uppercase letters from runs of lowercase letters. The problem with that method is that the underlying commands have to be case-insensitive, which basically means you lose 26 characters from your codepage.

Sʨɠɠan

uff

DLosc

So, as with a lot of things about Pip, what I came up with was a slight improvement at the time, but still pretty inefficient in hindsight.

lyxal

12:23 AM

@DLosc cheers to that *sips tea*

I know I've done my fair share of that

with my own esolangs obviously

DLosc

@lyxal Thanks, that does make me feel better :)

Just part of the March of Progress, I guess

lyxal

Me: oh there’s space for 26 characters in my codepage…why don’t I make them all look like letters and make them print that letter directly! That’s bound to be a good idea and wonderful for restricted source!

So that’s what I did

I added 26 characters whose function was to just print the letter they look like

in a language where 52 of the available commands were already being wasted by just pushing their ascii value to the stacks

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc No, it's October at the moment

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing for some reason, ddg on iOS makes your username display as just a diamond

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing I was all ready with a smart reply about how the first version of Pip came out in March 2015, but it turns out it was April :P

caird coinheringaahing

12:31 AM

@lyxal I am no longer caird, I am instead the literal manifestation of the concept of "moderator" :P

6

DLosc

@lyxal I've seen that with some other mod from a different site--can't remember who

Adám

12:50 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing On the northern hemisphere, that is.

New Posts

1:18 AM

0

Q: Conversions Galore!

Imagine that there are \$n\$ different types of objects \$O_1,O_2,O_3,\ldots,O_n\$ and they each have a conversion factor \$k_1,k_2,k_3,\ldots,k_n\$. You can, for any \$1\le i\le n\$, convert \$k_i\$ amount of \$O_i\$ into \$1\$ of any other type of object. Task Your objective is to output all th...

Sʨɠɠan

1:30 AM

TIL sets in python can't have lists inside them.

Aiden Chow

@Sʨɠɠan bro i just found that out today also when i tried to remove duplicates in a list of lists by converting to set

Radvylf Programs

1:58 AM

Would you expect it to just check if the lists are identical pointer-wise, or check if they're identical content-wise?

Unrelated String

flip a coin

Radvylf Programs

I'd imagine it would have to be the first if it was ever implemented, but the second feels way more intuitive so Python probably just wanted to prevent that misunderstanding from occurring at all

Unrelated String

(in all seriousness i'd expect pointer identity since that's actually hashable for a hast set but that would also be borderline useless)

^

another issue with sets supporting lists would be that mutating elements should hypothetically also mutate the set itself without any set operations involved

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms Do the Jelly method: convert each element into its string representation, then compare them that way

Unrelated String

like if you have

x = [1,2]
y = [1]
s = {x, y}
x.append(x.pop())

Radvylf Programs

2:02 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's also (sort of) the JS way, be careful what you wish for :p

Unrelated String

what do you expect to come out

is s unchanged, or did it catch that x and y were equal earlier, in which case which did it delete

which behavior would be desirable

Sʨɠɠan

@AidenChow that's the same why i found out, with your program

you can change the inner lists to tuples and it'll work

@RadvylfPrograms [1,2,3] == [1,2,3] is true so it should do the same as ==

Radvylf Programs

@Sʨɠɠan Wait really? TIL

Unrelated String

in python

i don't know what kind of wacky ass semantics js has there :P

Radvylf Programs

Yeah. Didn't realize it didn't just compare the pointers

Unrelated String

2:08 AM

that's is

Radvylf Programs

I guess it kinda makes sense with Python's model that it does that

Does it work for objects too?

Unrelated String

does js make you use some kind of equals method

Radvylf Programs

Or actually wait it has operator overloading

Unrelated String

@RadvylfPrograms anything that has __eq__ defined

yeah

Radvylf Programs

@UnrelatedString What no it just doesn't have a way to do that

Following in its C/Java footsteps

Unrelated String

2:10 AM

js doesn't have built in list equality????

at all?

even c has strcmp

Radvylf Programs

The typical method would be x.map((y, z) => y == w[z])

Unrelated String

what the actual fuck

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms bruh

bruuuuuh

thats sad

Radvylf Programs

It's not a super common operation and JS's standard library is missing much more useful things

Aiden Chow

:| well i mean its more helpful than comparing pointers right

Radvylf Programs

2:12 AM

wdym

That's what it does

Well, for two arrays

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms ಠ_ಠ

Radvylf Programs

For an array and (some) other data types it'll stringify

Ginger

do not want

Radvylf Programs

E.g. [1] == 1

Unrelated String

wh

what

Radvylf Programs

2:13 AM

[1, 2] == "1,2"

Unrelated String

is that like a boolean roundtrip there or

Aiden Chow

no i meant like if the default for == is comparing elementwise, it would be more helpful then comparing pointers right?

Unrelated String

WHAT

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms yea no

thats just cursed

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Radvylf Programs

2:13 AM

Yeah JS's == is discouraged for a reason

Aiden Chow

im like not even gonna touch js now that im seeing this

Unrelated String

and [1,2]!="1, 2"

burn it

burn it the fuck down

quarantine the ashes

Radvylf Programs

You're missing out. JS does a lot of stupid stuff but it's really powerful and quick to use, and you almost never deal with the cursed stuff

Ginger

I AM THROWING JS INTO THE FUCKING UNDERWORLD AND GOING TO GO CRY IN A CORNER

Aiden Chow

why hasnt js been replaced yet lol, after seeing these cursed stuff

Radvylf Programs

2:14 AM

It is being replaced

Wasm

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms THAT'S LIKE SAYING THAT "OH I SHOT THIS GUY AND ATE HIS BLEEDING HEART WHILE HIS CHILDREN WATCHED BUT AT LEAST I SAID SORRY TO HIS WIFE"

Radvylf Programs

But you can't exactly just get rid of the world's most used programming language which is integrated very deeply into the world's largest software ecosystem

Aiden Chow

@Ginger bruh lmfao

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger Not really. The weird JS behaviors are fun to make fun of, but they're kinda just that

Other than the lack of a standard library, it's a pretty standard dynamically typed language to write stuff in

Ginger

(It's hyperbole, assume everything I say relating to how bad JS is is enclosed within a <chicanery> tag)

Radvylf Programs

2:17 AM

@UnrelatedString I mean how would that work

Would it be doing like, array parsing on the string? That's worse

Array-primitive comparisons are weird and they (hopefully) never get used, but at least they're pretty consistent

Ginger

I keep considering making a joke proof-of-concept language that takes JS's shitty typing to the extreme but I keep realizing that it'd be redundant because JS does that already

Radvylf Programs

And JS's weird way of stringifying arrays does occasionally come in handy, in a really dumb way, like acting as tuples for map keys

Ginger

you can't break what's already broken

Unrelated String

it's just bizarre that the sole string representation of arrays is that

yeah the wasm takeover cannot come soon enough

Radvylf Programs

Except that it makes debugging other people's stuff wayyyy more annoying

E.g., I wanted to extract tank stats from diep.io but it's wasm now

Of course with modern JS minifiers it's almost as unreadable as Wasm, but at least a lot of stuff will still be exposed and you can use reverse engineering techniques to find array/dict constants (which would probably be optimized out by a wasm transpiler)

Unrelated String

2:21 AM

yeahhh

Ginger

alright so I know pretty much nothing, what exactly is WASM? (please answer while listening to youtube.com/watch?v=1dwu4iVA1yo)

Radvylf Programs

It's basically custom machine code

You can compile something like Rust to Wasm (short for Web Assembly) and it'll be run by a virtual machine

Unrelated String

ideally we'd have browsers support more scripty alternatives--possibly with built-in wasm jit or whatever

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms Sort of like a browser JVM

Ginger

ffs I want to do Python not Rust (I say while learning Rust)

also that sounds massively insecure

Radvylf Programs

2:23 AM

@UnrelatedString If only every browser had a built in JIT scripting language

3

Unrelated String

hmmmmm

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger It's a lot more secure

Since the attack surface is far smaller

Ginger

huh

Radvylf Programs

You only need to make sure the what, 100 or so Wasm opcodes are securely implemented, which is stupid easy when they're all like "increment this pls"

It's not actual machine code, it's just similar

@Ginger I'm sure Python-to-WASM tools do or will exist

It's more complicated though since Python's not typically compiled or even JIT'd

Ginger

oh I just had a very bad idea

machine code: "INCREMENT THIS NOW NOW NOW GO GOOOOO"
WASM: "hi... c-could you please increment this value for me? ~baka~"

^ this text pains my soul

Unrelated String

2:35 AM

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Ginger

am I the only one who pronounces long strings of hs "hjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj`?

just me?

ok

Unrelated String

yes

thejonymyster

2:58 AM

i usually just use the previous vowel sound or whatever

cause im not interested in what long strings of h's sound like

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger ...how does that even why

Ginger

I just kinda go "hjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj"

it's easy, you can do it at home or at your gym

Jo King

how do you pronounce a series of js?

Radvylf Programs

Like, you read that as "yeah-djuhhhhhhhhhhhh"?

thejonymyster

^^

Unrelated String

3:00 AM

depending on the language it could be like
/xʷ/

thejonymyster

ginger pronounces long strings of js as jhhhhhhhhh

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms well no, in that context I pronouce it....

Jo King

i just keep breathing out for hs

Ginger

hmm

Unrelated String

/ç/

Ginger

3:01 AM

like a hiss?

Radvylf Programs

Or is it like a "yeah-zhhhhhh"?

Ginger

not sure what IPA character it'd be

Radvylf Programs

How is that at all like jjjjjjjjjj

Ginger

it's not

Unrelated String

~~send an audio clip and i'll stare it down in praat~~

Ginger

3:01 AM

I only do the jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj when there's nothing else next to the h's

@UnrelatedString no can do :b

the sounds is kinda like a C but it's really long

Radvylf Programs

Anyway, good night TNB! o/

Unrelated String

\o

Ginger

goodbye!

Radvylf Programs

Can't wait to have to deal with adding headers to a websocket connection in Rust tomorrow

Aiden Chow

gn

Ginger

3:03 AM

@RadvylfPrograms sounds fun and exciting

don't worry we'll all suffer with you :b

Radvylf Programs

I have to like, manually parse the URL, put it in a struct from some random library called httparse (read as: "http arse" if you enjoy using it as much as I don't) that is literally the dumbest thing ever, then pass that to tokio_tungstenite alongside a TcpStream which has already connected to the SE server

And then hope that works since I have no proof that it will

Ginger

~~or you could use sechat, which at least works for a period of time~~

Radvylf Programs

One issue with Rust is that its compiler errors are amazing, give you a ton of detail and are extremely easy to deal with, while its runtime errors are almost always nightmares

Ginger

I did notice that

Radvylf Programs

There's no backtrace, and if you enable it with an environment variable, the backtrace is almost never actually of your code, it's of how Rust generated the error itself, which is like, not what you wanted, so you have to add a bunch of printlns to even figure out where the error's coming from, and all sorts of fun

Unrelated String

3:07 AM

lmao

Ginger

augh

Radvylf Programs

And Result's Err type is really cursed. It can be anything, but if you want to use the error coalescing operator thingy (?) it needs to be the same type that your function's Err type is, and for some reason Box<dyn std::error::Error + Send + Sync> seems to work although I have no clue why

And none of the docs are ever clear about what the errors can actually be

Like, I find it really ironic that the language that forces you to explicitly acknowledge every error using .unwrap() or a match also doesn't actually tell you what those errors might be

Like, oh no, this filesystem operation returns a Result. Well, should I unwrap it, or return a result from the function I'm writing and let something handle it down the line, or match it? Is one of the reasons it can error something I need to deal with?

It's almost never made clear

Unrelated String

yikes

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Use the full version: Jerome Junior Junior Junior ... Junior

Radvylf Programs

And when you're working heavily with network/file/OS operations, everything returns a result, and it's so easy to unwrap() something that should actually have been handled, causing a runtime error in some rare situation, or ? something that's actually meaning the whole thing's not a sane environment and you should nope out and panic!/unwrap, or sometimes you actually don't care whether it errored or not but there's no elegant way to express that

(and for good reason since you could also unknowingly be consenting to ignoring a really critical runtime error you ?'d with the expectation it'd never actually fail)

Sʨɠɠan

3:13 AM

@AidenChow it's really not that cursed, people like to talk about the cursed areas, but you usually just don't use the cursed parts

except in golfing because it's usually useful

if you don't write super crappy code then you're fine

Ginger

really liked the idea of results when I first heard about them but what you have described is, to put it mildly, bad spicy

Radvylf Programs

And since all sorts of different things use different types that just implement the Error trait, you need that Box<dyn Error> mess, which means that you need to do some really really really inelegant runtime type checking garbage to figure out whether it's an error you want to handle or not

@Ginger Yeah. I love the idea of being forced to explicitly acknowledge possible runtime errors, but Rust's particular way of implementing the concept is the language's biggest flaw IMO

Sʨɠɠan

meanwhile, i hate rust

it's impossible to use without doing 1000 google searches and then it still doesn't work

Radvylf Programs

Of course, I'm still a Rust noob, so there could be a TON of nuance or cool stuff I'm missing tho

Ginger

@Sʨɠɠan sorry for your loss :P

Unrelated String

3:15 AM

i really need to get back around to actually learning rust lmao

Radvylf Programs

@Sʨɠɠan It just puts the bulk of the learning on you right at the start

It gets easier with time

Unrelated String

like i think i got halfway through the tutorial a year ago and just haven't had any motivation since

Aiden Chow

why yall using rust then

Ginger

because of the compiled langs it is by far the easiest to learn IMO

Radvylf Programs

@UnrelatedString I did the same. What I ended up doing was for, like a few weeks, writing a small Rust program each day to do something I was mildly interested in, like that Jelly compressor

Unrelated String

3:16 AM

smart

Radvylf Programs

@AidenChow Because it is the best language, full stop

Ginger

sacrilege, burn heathen /s

Radvylf Programs

Rust's design elegance and no-compromises (besides readability) approach to safety and performance, while supporting platforms like Wasm, make it leagues ahead of any of the competition

It manages to include some of the best parts of OOP without the downsides, and even a bit of FP

It has an active and very helpful community, excellent documentation, and a compiler that makes getting compilation errors straight up pleasant compared to other langs

Ginger

ah yes, Original Ostrich Pencils and Fricking Pineapples, my two favorite language paradigms

Sʨɠɠan

but how on earth u supposed to use it

every single thing you do gives an error

Radvylf Programs

3:19 AM

If you want to write finished* software, Rust is without a question the best option

Sʨɠɠan

who cares if the language is cursed, as long as it's useful

Radvylf Programs

@Sʨɠɠan You need to get used to it. It's a steep learning curve

Ginger

@Sʨɠɠan no, that's C :b

Radvylf Programs

But once you learn the patterns and get familiar with ownership and stuff, it's not too much worse than other langs

Which is what I'm getting to with finished*: Rust isn't really great for iterating, you kind of need to go in with a plan

A lot of my early Rust programs were ports of JS/Python ones

caird coinheringaahing

Ngl, I always wonder how this room manages to rack up 400+ unread messages in ~4 hours for me, but then again, I realise that there's 3 minutes between the latest message and the message at the top of my screen :P

Radvylf Programs

3:21 AM

Oh wow

Unrelated String

reminds me i haven't had the motivation to get around to making that aoc lang i was thinking about
but if i do get around to it, i'd probably implement it in rust, but make it more or less as far from rust as i could

lol

Aiden Chow

@UnrelatedString aoc?

Unrelated String

advent of code

Aiden Chow

u making a lang just for that?

Unrelated String

for the fast

Ginger

3:22 AM

yeaaa AoC!

Radvylf Programs

After using both Rust and JS for a fair amount of time, I've got a new perspective on dynamically typed vs. statically typed languages

Unrelated String

just make python-but-slightly-more-expressive lmao

Ginger

Hithon

Radvylf Programs

I definitely am starting to get the appeal of statically typed languages for production code. Having all those checks before it even runs, and having them done once instead of at runtime, is greatbecause of the robustness and speed. But dynamically typed languages just let you write fast, and deal with issues as they come up

I guess it's less static vs. dynamic tho, since I've heard Go is quite good for iterating too. I guess more of, static + really aggro compiler vs. static/dynamic + interpreter or not very angry compiler

Unrelated String

ideally every language should have at least some basic level of type safety to catch absolutely braindead mistakes but yeah there is a point at which there is a tradeoff

yeah

Ginger

3:25 AM

I really like how Rust just deletes null from existence

Unrelated String

isn't there an optional type

Ginger

yes

it's been a "special case" in statically typed langs (as in methods could return either their type or null) pretty much since their inception and it's nice to see uniform consistency

Radvylf Programs

Like Rust's ownership, as good as it is as its job, really slows down the process of quickly writing code. The braindead just-clone-it-lmao or just-pass-it-by-reference-my-guy of other languages makes it so much quicker to just write stuff.

Unrelated String

honestly i find haskell to be a relatively easy language to iterate super basic stuff in

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger Fun fact: Options of pointer types actually have an internal null pointer optimization

Unrelated String

3:26 AM

i'd assume as much lmao

Radvylf Programs

So you get all of the performance of null without the null

Ginger

aw cmon rust the minute I say something good about you you do that d:

Radvylf Programs

It's a good thing

Unrelated String

the only problem with nulls is when all types are nullable

Radvylf Programs

Idk, I think it makes more sense to have nullable and non-nullable versions of every type

Unrelated String

3:28 AM

and then having nullable types is kinda shit because it still doesn't make aesthetic sense for the concept of a null pointer to have such primacy

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms I.e., Options :p

Unrelated String

so an option type that optimizes to nullable is simply perfect

@RadvylfPrograms exactly

Radvylf Programs

Another advantage of Option is that Option<some primitive> exists, whereas a nullable int wouldn't make any sense

Unrelated String

the problem is when there's no non-nullable types :P (or a closed class of them like java primitives)

^

Radvylf Programs

You don't get the null pointer optimization, so it's like a byte more of RAM than a normal int, but like, ohhhh noooooooooo my 1B of ram :p

Ginger

3:31 AM

ffs that's sub-optimal performance radvylf

unacceptable q:

Radvylf Programs

Not as sub-optimal as needing a pointer to that int for like, an Integer in Java :p

Unrelated String

which also means shoving that int onto the heap

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms (Which leads to my favorite JS feature of all time that I can never not bring up in tangentially related conversations, the Boolean box type in JS, which makes new Boolean(false) truthy)

Well anyway I'm going to bed, for real this time :p

o/

Unrelated String

o/

Ginger

/o

ooh idea: RAM golfing

you try to make your program use as little RAM as possible

Unrelated String

3:36 AM

lmao

Ginger

you laugh but it could work

Unrelated String

yeah it's just funny to think about

because it could get pretty extreme

Ginger

presenting: code that uses the display buffer to store 0 bytes in RAM (may destroy graphics card, use with caution)

Unrelated String

i forget what the granularity of disk i/o usually is but you could also cheat with that perhaps

Ginger

you'd have to add rules to keep people from just using swap lol

Unrelated String

3:45 AM

lol

nitsua60

3:58 AM

Does PPCG have MathJax enabled? If so, what're its delimiters? (Thanks.)

Ginger

Yes, we do!

lemme go check the delimiters rq

nitsua60

nvm--tried a few things, and found it's good ol' $

(or $$)

caird coinheringaahing

@nitsua60 \$ and $$

Ginger

ah, well then

caird coinheringaahing

Plain $ messes with our regex-based answers a lot

nitsua60

4:00 AM

Do you have other delimiters enabled?

caird coinheringaahing

Don't believe so

21

Q: Can we have MathJax back (part II)?

More than a month ago, we've reached a consensus: We want MathJax back. The reasons why it was turned off in 2015 no longer seem to apply, and details about why MathJax is needed on this site are detailed in the linked post. After a while, I asked a Community Manager about what we shall do next, ...

feature-request status-completed latex

nitsua60

Gotcha--thanks. (So \$ ... \$ is preferable to $ ... $ ?)

caird coinheringaahing

$ ... $ won't work here

Ginger

for some reason

caird coinheringaahing

Because of regex

@nitsua60 We have this bug in the search function with the \[ ... \] delimiters, but normally in posts, no others

Ginger

4:04 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing darn you regex

Unrelated String

i happened to hop on vc with someone learning react during the js convo earlier and
he's still trying to do the same thing
after like half an hour

i am so glad i have never tried to make a website

caird coinheringaahing

Also, it took all of 3 days for us to try latex and dislike it, back in 2015

21

Q: Do we really want LaTeX/MathJax (right now)?

Update: The decision has been made to deactivate MathJax on the site. This does not reflect the current votes, as these changed significantly after the decision was made. We've had MathJax support for 3 days now. While it makes our maths challenges look neat, it has also created two problems: ...

discussion status-completed latex

nitsua60

@cairdcoinheringaahing But it's back on?

Ginger

@UnrelatedString imagine using a framework

caird coinheringaahing

@nitsua60 Yep

We didn't have it. Then asked for it. Then asked for it to go away. Then re-asked for it. Then reasked for it to go away on meta only. Now, we have it

nitsua60

4:06 AM

I forget--did MJ get pushed SE-wide at some point? (We always liked/wanted it at RPG, so once we had it I sorta stopped paying attention.)

caird coinheringaahing

Follow the saga at the latex tag :P

@nitsua60 Don't think so

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms That's sensible. JS requires a bind and various this stuff lol

@Ginger C

Ginger

I'm sorry did lyxal use an uno reverse card on your idea of language usability

Unrelated String

c is way easier to learn

Ginger

ffs

I should be asleep right now

Unrelated String

4:14 AM

than rust of all things

caird coinheringaahing

Jelly's easy to learn

Unrelated String

@AidenChow of course it would by extension be good at just generally writing things fast; possibly just be a general-purpose python substitute :P

Ginger

I am personally prejudiced against C for various reasons which I do not have time to explain, let's end this now before I stay up another hour

bye fr now

Unrelated String

c has a host of issues
but it is not harder to learn

o/

emanresu A

agreed

caird coinheringaahing

4:16 AM

Jelly is, genuinely, easy to learn. It's not difficult to create functioning programs in Jelly. However, the difficulty is in a) understanding it, and b) golfing it :P

DLosc

@RadvylfPrograms Haskell's similar. From what I've read, it seems that the recommended approach to runtime errors in Haskell is "write your code in such a way that you never have a runtime error." So with that in mind, it kind of makes sense that they're annoying to deal with. :P

emanresu A

@cairdcoinheringaahing It's clever, and usually easier to understand initially because people are used to infix operators. Beyond that, links and chains are confusing to the point where beginners usually use multiple lines and ç/Ç.

Once you can figure out chaining, it's basically the same as any other golflang.

caird coinheringaahing

There's a few other significant tricks I'd say, but yeah, chaining and parsing patterns are the biggest hurdle

Unrelated String

and the documentation can occasionally leave things to be desired

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString Jelly challenge: explain ƙ's behaviour, and arity, in 10 words or less :P

DLosc

4:24 AM

Writing good documentation is 30% hard and 70% time-consuming

Unrelated String

groups right by left, maps monad over groups, keys sorted

that was pretty fucking hard and i don't think i could actually decipher that without playing with it :P

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString Idk if you properly convey that, despite taking a monad as argument, this is a dyad :P

Unrelated String

it's implicit in mentioning the word "right" :P

wait did i say keys sorted

i meant keys unsorted

fucƙ

or wait no

yeah it is sorted

caird coinheringaahing

My point exactly :P

nitsua60

Can anyone quickly put a finger on a well-worded question that has the "you can return an infinite list, or optionally take an input n and return the first n elements, or the nth element" formulation? (I'm sandboxing my first try at a challenge and am looking to plagiarize.)

Unrelated String

4:37 AM

i think that's most sequence challenges

PyGamer0

@Sʨɠɠan do both of you have the same pfp?!

Unrelated String

like there's actually fixed verbiage you could lift from most of them

nitsua60

@UnrelatedString tyvm--well take a peek

Unrelated String

np

emanresu A

What vyxal's docs do very well is to provide multiple names

So transpose as well as zip for example

Whereas pip / jelly usually only have one phrasing / word choice for every builtin

Newly Featured Posts

4:50 AM

13

Q: Make a Court Transcriber

Discussion in courtrooms often occurs at a high speed and needs to be accurately transcribed in case the text of the decision is needed in future cases. For this purpose, the stenographers who transcribe court discussions uses specially designed keyboards with a small set of buttons, which are pr...

code-golf string

Codidact Posts

5:06 AM

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Pinwheel words

posted on October 23, 2022 by trichoplax‭

Given a word that can be rotated by 180 degrees (a half turn) about at least one of its 3 axes and continue to be composed of English alphabet letters, output one of its rotated forms. T...

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Generate the Sequence of Equivalence Relations (OEIS A231428) Introduction An equivalence relation \$R\$ on a set \$S\$ is reflexive: \$ \forall a\in S: aRa\$ symmetric: \$ \forall a,b \in S: aRb \leftrightarrow bRa \$ transitive: \$ \forall a,b,c \in S: aRb \wedge bRc \rightarrow aRc \$ These ...

Aiden Chow

brooo can someone run this: tio.run/##S8osSa5Mzkn9/99e8f9/QyD4l19QkpmfV/wfAA, its not working on my end for some weird reason

im getting an error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/opt/bitcycle/bitcycle.py", line 495, in <module>
run(code, pause, ioFormat, *args)
NameError: name 'code' is not defined

like is it just me or is anyone else getting that error too

emanresu A

It's the empty CLI arg causing the issue

Aiden Chow

@emanresuA oh, what do i put there then? i dont need any flags

emanresu A

Nothing

The issue is that it exists

And is stuffing up TIO's runner

Aiden Chow

5:20 AM

@emanresuA ???????????????