simping for sympy

@RadvylfPrograms it returns true in flax :p

What does flax use?

mpmath :P

Yeah but that could still run into issues with really high precision right?

i think so

argh i hate it when i can't program in the language i am making

because i can't program in flax

why am i even making it if i can't write programs in it ...

@RadvylfPrograms you could get a really really extensive library and then just default to evaluating it imprecisely as a fallback? :P

@RadvylfPrograms looks like minimum 18 dps is required for it to return true

staging.ato.pxeger.com/…

@thejonymyster I've thought about that yeah

@PyGamer0 you are building something larger than yourself !

@thejonymyster my brain is not accustomed to jelly lol

so i get confused really easily

And even in SymPy, simplify(sin(pi / 7) - sqrt(7 / 12 - (7 ** (2 / 3) * (1 + I * sqrt(3))) / (12 * 2 ** (2 / 3) * (-1 + 3 * I * sqrt(3)) ** (1 / 3)) - (1 - I * sqrt(3)) / 24 * (7 / 2 * (-1 + 3 * I * sqrt(3))) ** (1 / 3))) doesn't simplify to 0

@PyGamer0 the default precision for flax is 20 dps

Which it should, assuming I didn't make a typo

I think I'm going to go for the arbitrary precision approximation using limits of gaussian rationals

It seems like it'll honestly perform better than symbolic math in some situations

whats a gassyin rationale

Just a complex number where the real and imaginary parts are rationals

@thejonymyster ratiogassynale

dont ratio me

it's what you asked for

gassy in rationale

@RadvylfPrograms ah i had a feeling, i really wish theyd just call those "complex rationals"

@Ginger seems rational then, i withdraw my previous statement

glad to hear it

@RadvylfPrograms does it simplify to zero if you give it to wolframalpha?

or sage

Not sure

have you thought about building your own symbolic math library? :P

Yes that's what I've been discussing here over the last 20m :p

don't give him any ideas

oh, it's too late

nevermind then

And I've decided against it because SymPy's multiple tens of thousands of SLOC and doesn't work

you should add a function that "rounds" to convenient numbers like multiples of pi or e or integers :P

ah yes, convenient numbers

@RadvylfPrograms i dont even know how symbolic math libraries even work

magic

convenientlyAssume(n)

@thejonymyster I mean for the integers part, it sort of does that

@Ginger makes sense ..

In order to do things like absolute value or floor/ceil, it just approximates to enough precision to tell if it's negative, or what integer it's closest to

@Ginger magic

yup

YESSSSSSS

Maybe ECH will start being widely adopted before I graduate from college

Y'got five years, everybody. Get adopting.

you have no idea how hard it is to resist making wrong acronyms for that

but I will not

so what is ECH?

Encrypted Client Hello

which means?

It protects the SNI and ALPN, which include the domain name of the site you're visiting and protocol you're using in plain text, in TLS

gamers discussing PC specs be like

Which means that once ECH starts getting used, spying on what sites people visit or blocking based on it will be impossible

wow

(Once DNS-over-HTTPS, or DoH, is also adopted, but that's going faster)

So all that people will be able to see is the IP address

that'll make it awfully difficult for, say, schools to block spicy websites won't it

or am I misunderstanding

It will

Although unfortunately, because they want that sweet sweet CIPA money they'll just force people to install root certs

Which is a big net negative for privacy since then they can also see inside the encrypted traffic

but if you bring, say, a device that you own that isn't managed by the school then shouldn't it work just fine?

Not if they just block any devices that don't have their root certs installed

ouch

that seems like a problem

They could do that now, but it's a big pain and using SNI to block mostly works.

ok, neat

I never understood the point of DNS-Over-HTTPS. Like I trust my ISP 1000% times more than google. What's the point?

It prevents spying on people's DNS requests

Which is used for blocking and stuff too

Instead google can

which is worse

Ideally you wouldn't need to change who does your DNS

It just needs more adoption

Why not DNS of SSL?

DoT?

I don't understand why they added HTTP to the mix and make the whole thing 10x less efficient

DNS over UDP is inredibly fast

I think there was a big fight over DoH vs. DoT and DoH won because it was the only way it'd get widely adopted

Thanks to Google

Our very good friends /s

Yea not gonna use it till we get rid of HTTP

@RadvylfPrograms - chromebook user

I have a local DNS cache so you can't see what I do live anyways

@mathcat I don't use it for the Google

I use it for the book not the chrome™

also a attacker can see my destination IP even with secure DNS so it would only protect you when visiting extremely minor sites hosted on shared hosting

Lightweight (in all of the ways), good battery life, works reliably, cheap and easy to replace. Far better than any windows or linux machine I've used in all of those regards.

I considered getting a Windows or Linux laptop when I got this most recent chromebook, but the choice was obvious. An equally performant non-Chromebook would be four times more expensive. Windows is obnoxious and Linux is ugly and has lots of annoying quirks (any distro I've used, at least). Chromebooks have their flaws, sure, but I know with pretty close to 100% confidence that it's going to just work, look good doing it, and not bother me with stuff I don't care about.

i should get a computer, telepathically communicating with servers can be kind of taxing lately

My feelings summed up on Linux

Not enough focus on the little things.

Chome OS gets the little things right. Minor annoyances are very rare, and it almost never gets in the way of the stuff you're doing on top of it.

In linux you just do the little things yourself

then they work fine

there are a lot of little things

and id prefer if all my time was not spent implementing them :P

Ok is this answer really that bad? stackoverflow.com/a/74100396/6333444

@mousetail s/a error/an error, which clearly explains an entire downvote :P

@thejonymyster I like linux because it gives me new and exciting ways to brick my computer: if you try to delete your filesystem Windows will be like "hell nah" but linux will happily erase itself

@Ginger as it should

day 999 using linux: I'm switching to Arch

day 1024 using linux: Arch deleted my boot sector so I'm switching back to Debian

Day 1025 of using Linux: I'm switching to Arch

Day 1026 of using linux: hey let's try OpenBSD!

Pretty much very linux user I know spent the first 6 months rapidly ping ponging between a dozen linux distributions but afterwards pretty much all of them use Arch.

except me! I've been using Debian Raspbian Raspberry Pi OS for 3 years and I love tolerate it!

Congrats

Debian Debian or Ubuntu or another variant?

Raspberry Pi OS: it's Debian + LXDE + a bunch of Raspberry Pi-specific software

LXDE is positively geriatric at this point but I learned my lesson last time I bricked my Pi by trying to upgrade stuff

^ this whole thing happened because I forgot to copy a file called installed_os.json

@mousetail I've only ever used Ubuntu. (But only for servers, not for desktop.)

I used to use Ubuntu for servers and desktop, I use Fedora for servers now

Haven't used Linux on desktop in a while

@mousetail Sorry but I'm not writing hardware drivers and stuff myself

yknow, I think it's quite possible to write an entire DE (excluding the display server and window manager), so greeter, panels, all of it, in Python

You can write anything in Python

fair enough :b

i can't write anything in python

Just make your kernel's init process be /usr/bin/python :p

okay that's too far, even for me

Okay as if we didn't need more reasons to dislike JS's "objects and dicts are the same" thing, I just spent fifteen minutes debugging why ctx.fillColor wasn't working before I realized it's fillStyle

(No clue how I forgot that given that I've used JS canvases for like four years)

@RadvylfPrograms good choice

Because Sympy can be a real pain sometimes

@RadvylfPrograms although SNI without ECH has a handy application whereby I can receive traffic on port 443 without needing the private key and forward it to the correct server

Being new to this code golf thing, even surprised and quite amused to find out about its existence. People's inventive drive amazes me in such moments like these. Guess it's a contest of who packs the brainiest punch of pure programmative essence within the smallest volume of characters, regardless of whether said character compose to tell anything even remotely readable by humans or not. That's the spirit I highly appreciate.

Name of this chat room however, makes me stop and wonder. What indeed was the true significance of the 19th byte and whether it signifies an important cognitive threshold, or is just a lyrical device, or maybe was just chosen because "ni-ne-tEEnth" has been considered the optimal choice for the speech flow of towncryers announcing this chat's events. I'd bet on the human brain's average capacity of 18 readable symbols being the operational limit, with the 19th symbol being the point where

it's a golf joke

@user346760 Have you ever played golf? The 19th hole is the nickname for the bar after you finish an 18 hole round of golf, where you typically socialise with other people. This is the 19th byte, as we're a code golf site. Plus, "The Nineteenth Byte" has 19 bytes

as in golf with a ball on a course

the biological "cache" containing the previous 18 ones gets flushed out, making the 19th one the problematic breaking point. Makes one wonder also, why phone numbers are still shorter than 18 digits, considering that there are 6 billion people already in existence.

Ngl, looking at the other answers, man I'm glad we went with 19th byte instead of other suggestions :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh snap, that totally makes sense. I am embarrassed for being so slow as not to catch that. Thanks.

I have never played golf by the way, just occasionally watched a game of golf briefly appear on the TV.

I guess it's slightly more secure, since it's one less program using the private key, but ideally you'd use the same server software you would be for the rest of the servers you're forwarding to

@user346760 Because an 11 digit phone number can result in 10^11 different numbers

@lyxal Well I wouldn't be using SymPy itself, I'd be rewriting it from scratch

Thanks Rust :p

Might make my common-sense-approach ramblings appear quite dense in retrospect, to be honest.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sometimes the simplest answer is the easiest to miss

And yeah since SymPy doesn't give you exactly correct answers in every situation either, I figure having a slightly higher error rate in exchange for not having to suffer through reimplementing 20k sloc of simplification rules that will likely never be used is worth it

@cairdcoinheringaahing 11 digit you say, ah, so you are also taking the country area code into consideration. Interesting, I missed that being a thing for some reason. Guess it's not my turn to be the wise one today, it seems.

@cairdcoinheringaahing wow yeah most of those are... bad

Welcome to for e! everyone :P

and was puzzling not a site in 2014 for someone to suggest "cross words"

my favorite would have to be "Code Hanger" because it doesn't even have any explanation and there's no obvious reasoning behind it

it simply is

@user346760 I mean, practically speaking, there aren't 10^11 available numbers, as stuff like country + area codes actually matter. But, keep in mind that not everyone has a phone (or phone number), and so it makes sense that there's still an order of magnitude or so of numbers available

CMC: ^. Maybe if it's clever, we'll think about renaming the chat room (but won't actually rename it) :P

I don't wanna have to deal with every new CM or dev we get popping in to ask when and how our room name got corrupted, and if it's a common issue :p

> but won't actually rename it

I'm trying to bait the hungry masses into doing code :P

Jelly without string delimiter because I don't know those and just used my optimal compressor: ¡?FƒSsṄcÞŒ¿BƙG

Fun fact: The Jelly long dict does not contain the word "puzzles"

So this has to be compressed as (Programming)( Puzzle)(s)( )(&)( Code)( Golf)

@RadvylfPrograms “...»

Looking at the other name suggestions, "cross words" seems to be as generic as it could get. Still probably miles better than anything I could come up with. "The Press of Inspiration" surprisigly scores even less points, but in my opinion has an undeniable charm to it and would do fine. Makes one appreciate the hard effort made by all the code golfers to save the forests, or whatever's saving is trendy nowadays, and use as little digital space and electricity as physically possible. Neat.

@RadvylfPrograms I believe that it has very few plurals. Also, it does have the following words with puzzle as a root :P

puzzle
puzzled
puzzledom
puzzlehead
puzzleheaded
puzzleheadedness
puzzleheadednesses
puzzlement
puzzler
puzzling
puzzlingly
puzzlings

Petition to rename the site to "Programming Puzzlement and Code Golf" :p

Nah, "Programming Puzzleheadednesses and Code Golf"

Where's the "rename site" button on the mod dashboard? :P